New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

matrim

bk wrote: »

Most of these homes would already be facing onto what are some of the busiest roads in the whole of Ireland! These corridors are already the busiest bus routes with hundreds of buses passing them all day every day as it is.

Afterall the roads are the core radial routes into the city center.

We certainly aren't talking about quiet country gardens here!

IME Most "gardens" in areas like this have already been tarmacked over to create off street parking. There is little in the way of real gardens.

Of course people will need to be compensated and alternative arrangements made for parking. But no one should be surprised by this living on some of the busiest roads in the country.

I'm not on any of the routes but can easily understand why someone would be against it. When I bought my house a front garden / parking area was one of my criteria and I rejected houses without it even if they were nicer that what we went with in other ways.


If you lose it you are
* closer to the traffic noise
* close to pedestrian noise
* have less privacy
* less space for bike / bin storage
* lose parking which in turn may increase insurance costs as well as cause other costs (e.g. parking tags for you / visitors)
* potentially lose value on your house from all the above

And if you live near somewhere with a stadium (e.g. ringsend, drumcondra) then you risk not being able to get off street parking on event days.

GarIT

Addle wrote: »

Claim won't be up to you to decide.
Please let who know how you get on with applying a financial value to your affected sex life.

I didn't say it was, just that I wonder how much they will pay out/what's the value of a garden. And explaining that it is incredibly valuable to me.

marno21

Hurrache wrote: »

Rent a gob on all things Dooblin is on Pat Kenny talking about it now, no prizes for guessing his approach.

https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/13240/45470/12th_June_2018_-_The_Pat_Kenny_Show_Part_2/

Pro-car, pro-CIE, anti-NTA

LeinsterDub

GarIT wrote: »

I can't see the value of a house going up if you take away the garden and move the road closer to the door, even if the bus does go a bit faster.

https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/houses-near-dublins-new-luas-line-see-value-shoot-up-15-36396152.html
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/luas-cross-city-house-prices-rise-faster-than-homes-near-dart-1.3322222
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/daft-ie-report-most-expensive-houses-on-southside-dart-line-1.2448065
http://www.thejournal.ie/property-prices-luas-dart-4025245-May2018/
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-much-living-close-to-luas-and-dart-adds-to-your-house-price-36933179.html

sbsquarepants

GarIT wrote: »

I can't see the value of a house going up if you take away the garden and move the road closer to the door, even if the bus does go a bit faster.

Me either, quite the opposite in fact.

The houses that would likely benefit would be the ones farther out, who would get much "closer" time wise. The closer you get to the centre the much less pronounced the effect.

monument

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If it's a choice between a high capacity high speed bus lane capable of moving mass amounts of people or a cycle lane the choice is easy.

Of course, you would sabotage a project like this for your own narrow agenda, and you and those like you will successfully prevent this from ever coming to fruition. Ho hum.

My narrow agenda? I supposed I authored and approved the following?...

Dublin City Developed Plan
Manual for Urban Roads and Streets
National Cycle Policy
Smarter Travel
GDA Cycle Manual
Citizens Assembly report on climate change

...I’m nearly sure I didn’t! :pac:

cherryghost

Gaaaah, yet again the orbital routes put on the back burner

GarIT

Something also to take note of, electric vehicles require a front garden unless someone invents a new solution. If you lost your front garden even if they do make alternate parking available you'd have to sell your EV.

bk

GarIT wrote: »

I can't see the value of a house going up if you take away the garden and move the road closer to the door, even if the bus does go a bit faster.

A recent report found that homes close to good public transport fetch an extra €100,000.

People who work in the city center happily pay a premium for quick and reliable commutes.

seamus

GarIT wrote: »

I didn't say it was, just that I wonder how much they will pay out/what's the value of a garden. And explaining that it is incredibly valuable to me.

It'll be a standard rate per square metre based on your location. It's usually generous more than you would get on the market for that bit of land.

Where there are extenuating circumstances (e.g. "I could have built another house on that bit of land"), there will be some wiggle room to push back for a better price.

bk

GarIT wrote: »

Something also to take note of, electric vehicles require a front garden unless someone invents a new solution. If you lost your front garden even if they do make alternate parking available you'd have to sell your EV.

Not true, you have onstreet charing, currently free and fast charging, also currently free.

Lots of people around Dublin have no off-street parking and still have EV's!

Also there is a new generation of EV batteries coming in the next 3 years, which have 8x faster charging. It means you can gain 400km range in just 5 minutes. It makes it a lot more like petrol then.

LeinsterDub

GarIT wrote: »

Something also to take note of, electric vehicles require a front garden unless someone invents a new solution. If you lost your front garden even if they do make alternate parking available you'd have to sell your EV.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/14/london-electric-car-charging-stations-lamp-posts-street/

Next non issue please!

GarIT

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/houses-near-dublins-new-luas-line-see-value-shoot-up-15-36396152.html
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/luas-cross-city-house-prices-rise-faster-than-homes-near-dart-1.3322222
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/daft-ie-report-most-expensive-houses-on-southside-dart-line-1.2448065
http://www.thejournal.ie/property-prices-luas-dart-4025245-May2018/
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-much-living-close-to-luas-and-dart-adds-to-your-house-price-36933179.html

Sure but is that more than the value of private parking.

And this isn't a new transport service were talking about, it's a bus that already exists on those roads just drives 10% faster.

If a garden and private parking is worth €50,000, I have no idea it's a wild guess, but then you get 15% from the new luas, you'd be at a loss, this is just slightly reducing bus journey times, and it won't really benefit you, only people you get on the bus before your house, you'd be lucky to see a 5% increase so you could be out big money depending on what they pay in the CPO.

punisher5112

GarIT wrote: »

Something also to take note of, electric vehicles require a front garden unless someone invents a new solution. If you lost your front garden even if they do make alternate parking available you'd have to sell your EV.

Already is, light poles could and can be used.

beauf

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/houses-near-dublins-new-luas-line-see-value-shoot-up-15-36396152.html
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/luas-cross-city-house-prices-rise-faster-than-homes-near-dart-1.3322222
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/daft-ie-report-most-expensive-houses-on-southside-dart-line-1.2448065
http://www.thejournal.ie/property-prices-luas-dart-4025245-May2018/
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-much-living-close-to-luas-and-dart-adds-to-your-house-price-36933179.html

That effectively the same article.

All its saying is expensive areas in Dublin remain the most expensive.

Because in general its the affluent areas that get the best public transport first. They would be rising in price even if they didn't have a Dart or similar.

If you ran a public transport link into a deprived area, then saw the prices rise significantly then you'd have a story. But there is no way of removing the location as a factor. Almost all of these location reported have some natural value based on their location, (Affluence, Coast, City Center) unrelated to the transport link.

That before you factor the housing crisis.

Whats interesting about those reports are the areas they haven't reported on.

Qrt

GarIT wrote: »

Having a car has a huge impact on my sex life too, I'd say I pull twice as much (not that it was high to begin with or is now) having a car just because of logistics.

I think this thread has hit new levels

punisher5112

GarIT wrote: »

Sure but is that more than the value of private parking.

And this isn't a new transport service were talking about, it's a bus that already exists on those roads just drives 10% faster.

If a garden and private parking is worth €50,000, I have no idea it's a wild guess, but then you get 15% from the new luas, you'd be at a loss, this is just slightly reducing bus journey times, and it won't really benefit you, only people you get on the bus before your house, you'd be lucky to see a 5% increase so you could be out big money depending on what they pay in the CPO.

I hope by that point buses will be hop on hop off style where it's a flat fare and enter/exit all doors or at least on quick through the front with no driver interaction needed.

GarIT

bk wrote: »

Not true, you have onstreet charing, currently free and fast charging, also currently free.

Lots of people around Dublin have no off-street parking and still have EV's!

Also there is a new generation of EV batteries coming in the next 3 years, which have 8x faster charging. It means you can gain 400km range in just 5 minutes. It makes it a lot more like petrol then.

Have a look through the EV form it's filled with posts about how you can't rely on the public network. Public charging will not remain free in future it's only a temporary measure and when they do start charging it will be at least twice the cost of residential rate electricity. Those improvements could largely solve the problem though.

The people in Dublin who don't charge at home all seem to have some special case like being able to charge at work.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2017/11/14/london-electric-car-charging-stations-lamp-posts-street/

Next non issue please!

As long as they charge night rate prices once public charging goes paid that could be alright.

bk

GarIT wrote: »

Sure but is that more than the value of private parking.

100k in your pocket! You bet it is.

GarIT wrote: »

And this isn't a new transport service were talking about, it's a bus that already exists on those roads just drives 10% faster.

50% faster according to the report.

GarIT wrote: »

If a garden and private parking is worth €50,000, I have no idea it's a wild guess, but then you get 15% from the new luas, you'd be at a loss, this is just slightly reducing bus journey times, and it won't really benefit you, only people you get on the bus before your house, you'd be lucky to see a 5% increase so you could be out big money depending on what they pay in the CPO.

The CPO payments will be more then enough to make it worth it. Remember they are talking on spending 2 billion on this!

CPO payments usually mean market value plus a good bit extra so people are usually happy with it.

They also mention supplying alternative parking close by when you lose it. I assume a dedicated space in a nearby back street.

However remember this is only in the most extreme case. In most cases they'll only be taking a few feet. There are also plenty of gardens around, that even after losing a few feet you would still have plenty of space for parking out front.

BTW can I ask will you be directly impacted by this or is it just theory for you?

LeinsterDub

GarIT wrote: »

If a garden and private parking is worth €50,000

And if it's worth 5,000 your quids in . See we can all make up number to suit our argument

GarIT

Qrt wrote: »

I think this thread has hit new levels

It's just an honest point on why cars can be necessary. It's much easier to go to someone's house or bring them to yours when you don't have to rely on the nightlink which is non-existent 4 nights a week and only goes one way the other nights.

GarIT

bk wrote: »

BTW can I ask will you be directly impacted by this or is it just theory for you?

You're making a few good points, I'm just a bit skeptical if it will be beneficial to the people affected by it, it doesn't affect me at all. I might be actually depending on what route they take in Tallaght, I couldn't fully make it out on the map but it's highly unlikely they would need to change much near me.

bk

GarIT wrote: »

Have a look through the EV form it's filled with posts about how you can't rely on the public network. Public charging will not remain free in future it's only a temporary measure and when they do start charging it will be at least twice the cost of residential rate electricity. Those improvements could largely solve the problem though.

The people in Dublin who don't charge at home all seem to have some special case like being able to charge at work.

As long as they charge night rate prices once public charging goes paid that could be alright.

I'm a regular on the EV forum, thanks, I'm well aware of the challenges.

Lots of people need an alternative to at home charging, the many of thousands of people who already live all around Dublin and use on-street parking, folks who live in apartments, destination charging etc. Adding a possible few hundred to them won't change the need for continued on-street charging.

And again there are the new upcoming batteries which really make this whole issue go away.

Qrt

GarIT wrote: »

You're making a few good points, I'm just a bit skeptical if it will be beneficial to the people affected by it, it doesn't affect me at all. I might be actually depending on what route they take in Tallaght, I couldn't fully make it out on the map but it's highly unlikely they would need to change much near me.

Tallaght route to me looks like beginning at The Square, swing by the hospital, through the IT, out onto Greenhills Road, straight down the Greenhills road with a new alignment for Castletymon Road to a new roadway to Calmount Avenue, then onto the Walkinstown Roundabout at the Ballymount Road arm.

bk

GarIT wrote: »

It's just an honest point on why cars can be necessary. It's much easier to go to someone's house or bring them to yours when you don't have to rely on the nightlink which is non-existent 4 nights a week and only goes one way the other nights.

Order a taxi.

You say you save a fortune on taxis. But do you really?

What about the cost of your car? Cost of buying it? Insurance? Diesel? Road Tax? Maintenance?

Maybe not owning a car and use a taxi a couple of times when needed would actually work out a lot cheaper?

I mean it did for me. I live in the city for the past 15 years. Don't own a car and yet I use to head out (pre having a kid) about 4 nights a week. Took taxi's when needed and ended up saving a fortune on not having a car.

Also never seemed to be a problem with the ladies They seemed to appreciate the nice restaurants and holidays we could go on due to having more disposable income.

I mean non of this is unusual. It is the same world over if you live in a big city. Most people just don't have a car, it is the trade off you make. Go to Manhattan, almost no one has a car, a car parking space there costs about $5,000 per month! Everyone just walks, subway and/or Ubers.

Same with similar sized European cities and Dublin will increasingly go the same way.

LeinsterDub

beauf wrote: »

That effectively the same article.

All its saying is expensive areas in Dublin remain the most expensive.

Because in general its the affluent areas that get the best public transport first. They would be rising in price even if they didn't have a Dart or similar.

If you ran a public transport link into a deprived area, then saw the prices rise significantly then you'd have a story. But there is no way of removing the location as a factor. Almost all of these location reported have some natural value based on their location, (Affluence, Coast, City Center) unrelated to the transport link.

That before you factor the housing crisis.

Whats interesting about those reports are the areas they haven't reported on.

They are posted years apart how are they the same?

Property prices on parts of Luas Cross City route up by 25%
Stoneybatter, Cabra and Phibsborough have seen rising valuations ahead of line’s opening

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/property-prices-on-parts-of-luas-cross-city-route-up-by-25-1.3320842

I'm sure you'll hand wave this one away too.

GarIT

bk wrote: »

Order a taxi.

You say you save a fortune on taxis. But do you really?

What about the cost of your car? Cost of buying it? Insurance? Diesel? Road Tax? Maintenance?

Maybe not owning a car and use a taxi a couple of times when needed would actually work out a lot cheaper?

I mean it did for me. I live in the city for the past 15 years. Don't own a car and yet I use to head out (pre having a kid) about 4 nights a week. Took taxi's when needed and ended up saving a fortune on not having a car.

Also never seemed to be a problem with the ladies They seemed to appreciate the nice restaurants and holidays we could go on due to having more disposable income.

I mean non of this is unusual. It is the same world over if you live in a big city. Most people just don't have a car, it is the trade off you make. Go to Manhattan, almost no one has a car, a car parking space there costs about $5,000 per month! Everyone just walks, subway and/or Ubers.

Same with similar sized European cities and Dublin will increasingly go the same way.

I could possibly save money getting rid of the car, probably not if I switch to an EV. The saving on taxi's lessen the expense and the other benefits make up for it. If I lived closer to city centre I possibly wouldn't have a car.

Hurrache

Qrt wrote: »

Tallaght route to me looks like beginning at The Square, swing by the hospital, through the IT, out onto Greenhills Road, straight down the Greenhills road with a new alignment for Castletymon Road to a new roadway to Calmount Avenue, then onto the Walkinstown Roundabout at the Ballymount Road arm.

Greenhills was mentioned somewhere as being one of the area's most affected by the requirement to take some land.

Dyr

bk wrote: »

Read the report, the report calls them "corridors", not routes. Each "corridor" includes many routes. For instance the Swords to CC one, includes the likes of the 16, 1, 13, 11, 41, Aircacoh, BE, etc. Obviously they will all separate off in different directions in the city center.
.

But I did read the report

"3.3 Preliminary route maps
The Appendix to this document provides preliminary route maps for
the sixteen Radial Core Bus Corridors."


"This section shows each of the preliminary
route maps for each of the bus corridors.
Each map illustrates the radial core bus
corridor route from start to finish. It also
shows key facts and potential impacts for
each route."

The fact that they're comparing journey times would suggest might not be talking about the corridors

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

That effectively the same article.

All its saying is expensive areas in Dublin remain the most expensive.

also, as has been pointed out before, house prices rise *near* the dart and luas. maybe they draw a 200m wide line either side if the lines and count the properties within that area.

however, two things. one, i'd bet my bottom dollar that a quality bus corridor would not have nearly the same cachet or effect on house prices as a rail solution.
and secondly, even if house prices might rise generally *near* the line, for those with their gardens truncated *on* the line, it might actually lower property values.