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New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

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    #152
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    beauf wrote: »
    You make do, it because its viable for you. That doesn't make it viable for everyone else.

    Also there are Suburbs within 3km of O'Connell bridge. They already exist. Its not like you are going to knock it all down and build 10 story buildings, when most of the actual city center, within 1km is low rise. beside which most of these bus routes are a lot further out, they are actually in the suburbs.

    I know, I live there. And I'm already seeing homes being bought up and knocked and being replaced by higher and more dense apartment buildings all around me. No not 10 storey buildings, but certainly 4 storey buildings.

    The north inner city is currently going through some major regeneration with homes being bought up by investors, houses being knocked and replaced by much higher density student accommodation.

    We will see a lot more of this over the next 20 years.
    beauf wrote: »
    Even in places like Tokyo and New York people have cars. They might have them in a storage garage. Once you get beyond Manhattan there are suburbs and people with cars.

    I spend a lot of time in Manhattan, have friends there, non of them have a car. Very few people have cars, only the super rich.

    A car space in Manhattan costs $225,000! Needless to say the vast majority of people there don't have them.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/12/us/12parking.html

    Of course beyond Manhattan you out into the suburbs and more people have cars (though still expensive and limited in my experience).

    Again, I repeat, I'm not saying that folks living further out in the surburbs can't have cars, they can and will. But realistically within the canals and along core corridors, it will increasingly become less feasible for people to do so here.


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    #153
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Hurrache wrote: »
    The issue is that the effects of this scheme are not all confined to the core of the city, like the luas cross city, it's having an affectbenefits as far as Greenhills and Terenure.

    The other side of the coin. This project will have benefits across the city, for the whole city. It's not isolated benefits like Metro or a Luas line. It's not an evil land grab by the NTA, the people involved stand to benefit from this scheme.


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    #154
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Noel Rock on Today FM giving out that the NTA aren't facilitating the level of political interference he desires in big schemes such as Metrolink, and that citizens affected are only notified in conjunction with the public launch.


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    #155
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,655 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we got a leaflet in the door today from him already, he was quick off the mark with that...


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    #156
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    bk wrote: »
    Have you ever thought of how expensive it is to maintain your car just to do that?

    Ever though about maybe not having the car and just renting/go car on the weekend instead? Or taking buses, etc.?

    Your talking to someone here who spends most of my weekends all over Ireland, hiking, etc. It takes a bit more planning without a car, but certainly do able.

    Just wondering do you have licence and no car or no car and no licence. Do you use Go Car or do you solely rely on pt. A car is always handy to have for supermarket shopping, Ikea shopping and for places like Woddies etc. I personally think it's something handy to have but I will use public transport where possible especially in places where parking is a pain in the arse.


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    #157
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    beauf wrote: »
    Doesn't effect me at all. I just disagree with your sweeping generalizations.

    What generalization? That millions (if not billions) of people all around the world can live their lives without being shackled to a car?

    Or that tens if not hundreds of thousands of people don't already live their lives without a car in Dublin?

    Or the fact that 70% of people don't already get into Dublin city center every day by bus, bike, luas or dart?

    Your the one making the generalisations, that everyone needs a car.

    I'm making the point that if you want and try, it is possible to get by without a car. No, it isn't for everyone, but it also isn't as hard as some people make out.

    The reality is if you want to live close to a big city, you most likely will need to do so without a car (maybe rent on the weekends), if you really need a car then live further out.


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    #158
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bk wrote: »
    ...Your the one making the generalisations, that everyone needs a car.....

    No I just said some people need a car.

    All of what you said was actually another generalization.


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    #159
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bk wrote: »
    ...But realistically within the canals and along core corridors, it will increasingly become less feasible for people to do so here.

    You'd have a point if these bus routes were within the Canals. But they aren't.


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    #160
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bk wrote: »
    ...The reality is if you want to live close to a big city, you most likely will need to do so without a car (maybe rent on the weekends), if you really need a car then live further out.

    The issue with traffic in the city. Is not people living in the city center driving. Its people outside, in the suburbs and beyond driving in.


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    #161
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Just wondering do you have licence and no car or no car and no licence. Do you use Go Car or do you solely rely on pt. A car is always handy to have for supermarket shopping, Ikea shopping and for places like Woddies etc. I personally think it's something handy to have but I will use public transport where possible especially in places where parking is a pain in the arse.

    I don't have a license. Did learn, had a provisional. I most get my ass in gear, it would be handy for Go Car for the odd trip as you say, summer holidays, etc.

    I will say though I have gotten by fine. Online shopping makes things so much easier.

    I pay Tesco €10 amount for their unlimited online delivery service, absolutely brilliant, nothing like ordering from your sofa and having a guy carry your shopping into your kitchen the next morning :) Even if I had a car I'd still use it.

    I also walk past a nice fruit & veg, butchers and small shop on the way home from work so easy to grab fresh stuff.

    Amazon is amazing, can order pretty much anything from their. Get a few deliveries a month.

    Bought all my furniture, TV, appliances from various shops around. They all delivered, most don't have stock in store any more anyway, so that is the norm now. BTW recommendation to Richersounds for TV, they are great.

    Ikea is a bit trickier, I head their from time to time, can just get the bus their you know. And you can pay them to deliver, though not the cheapest.

    If you visit Woodies frequently, that might be a bit trickier. I don't have to worry about a Garden, apartment, but I can see it might be a pain if you have a green finger. Woodies do have delivery options and there is always a guy with a van, not cheap but might be ok for a one off big delivery.

    It is really a mindset. Might sound complicated, but with all the online delivery options nowadays it is much easier.


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    #162
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Buses are not viable for me. They are by far the slowest and most unpleasant way to get around the city. Unless you live on an especially fast and well served route.


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    #163
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    beauf wrote: »
    The issue with traffic in the city. Is not people living in the city driving. Its people outside, in the suburbs and beyond driving in.

    Yes and better public transport is the solution to that.

    Park and Rides. Metrolink, high quality bus routes, high quality cycle routes, along with traffic calming and less priority for motorists in the city will help attracts those out of thier cars and into public transport.


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    #164
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    beauf wrote: »
    Buses are not viable for me. They are by far the slowest and most unpleasant way to get around the city. Unless you live on an especially fast and well served route.

    And that is exactly what they want to fix with this.

    Massively speed up journey times by 50% and people like you * will decide to leave your car at home and take the bus instead.

    * I don't know if any of these routes are close enough for you to benefit. I'm saying this in general to motorists like you.


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    #165
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bk wrote: »
    ...It is really a mindset. Might sound complicated, but with all the online delivery options nowadays it is much easier.

    Everything taking 2-3 times as long is not a mindset.


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    #166
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »
    Value of people's property dropping because of losing the garden but also now you'll have a frequent drone of engines from buses closer to your door.
    Agreed.
    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    It's wrong to just dismiss their concerns with talk of increased property prices like they should be only too glad to give away part of their homes to ease a strangers commute.
    I'm not sure how less front garden, less privacy, and closer noise equals increased property prices. If anything, it'll increase the property prices nearby, but cause those affected to have their property values decreased.
    bk wrote: »
    IME Most "gardens" in areas like this have already been tarmacked over to create off street parking. There is little in the way of real gardens.

    Of course people will need to be compensated and alternative arrangements made for parking. But no one should be surprised by this living on some of the busiest roads in the country.
    You'll be given a ticket, and told of the area that you can now park in. I doubt new parking spaces will be "made".
    Also, their car insurance premium will go up, and depending on how much of a sh|thole they live in, the chances of their car being robbed may also rise dramatically.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/houses-near-dublins-new-luas-line-see-value-shoot-up-15-36396152.html
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/luas-cross-city-house-prices-rise-faster-than-homes-near-dart-1.3322222
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/daft-ie-report-most-expensive-houses-on-southside-dart-line-1.2448065
    http://www.thejournal.ie/property-prices-luas-dart-4025245-May2018/
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-much-living-close-to-luas-and-dart-adds-to-your-house-price-36933179.html
    Close, yes. But those on (now in?) the bus route? I doubt their houses prices will rise.
    bk wrote: »
    And again there are the new upcoming batteries which really make this whole issue go away.
    It'd be awesome if they figured out how to have molten salt in car batteries.
    punisher5112 wrote: »
    illegal parking enforcement.
    Towing at cost to owner would help eliminate this.

    =-=

    If I lived on the route, I'd be demanding that they buy the entire house, as I would have bought the house for the off street parking. It would benefit me if I go back to Leixlip, as the Lucan to CC corridor will be great for the 66X.

    I agree that CC living is pretty much apartment blocks, but these routes go far beyond the CC. Going to check more closely at these later.


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    #167
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    we got a leaflet in the door today from him already, he was quick off the mark with that...

    Would have had his card marked well in advance.


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    #168
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bk wrote: »
    And that is exactly what they want to fix with this.

    Massively speed up journey times by 50% and people like you * will decide to leave your car at home and take the bus instead.

    * I don't know if any of these routes are close enough for you to benefit. I'm saying this in general to motorists like you.

    Will make no difference to me. I just can't carry what I need, or get to where I want in a reasonable amount of time on a bus.


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    #169
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    beauf wrote: »
    Everything taking 2-3 times as long is not a mindset.

    Errr... how is ordering online in 5 minutes from the comfort of my sofa while watching TV, 2-3 times longer then trying to drag a 2 year old around a Tesco for an hour! :eek:

    The amount of time I save with online shopping versus queued up trying to get into Blanchardstown on a Saturday is massive.

    And would you like to hear about my commute. 30 minutes walk to work, through a lovely area and combines to give me good exercise. Could cycle it in 15 mins if I wanted. How many hours do people spend driving into work every day?


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    #170
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I dunno why when someone says the need a car you bring up examples that don't need a car.

    Baffling...


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    #171
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Watching the Six One about this. Bloody hell, an unholy alliance between NIMBYs and the NBRU making this sound like the Normandy Landings from the perspective of the Germans.


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    #172
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    One place I find absolutely nuts at rush hours is Fairview turn off to Malahide road.

    Bus stop before the lights can't be gotten to as cars are all using the bus lane.

    Needs a segregation of lanes and a bus light to clear the huge bottle neck.


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    #173
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    beauf wrote: »
    I dunno why when someone says the need a car you bring up examples that don't need a car.

    Baffling...

    Do you have an example of where someone needs a car who will be affected by this project?


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    #174
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I've just read a tweet from Dermot O'Leary suggesting that the bus takes him where he wants to go, when he wants to go, makes good use of his time, money, respects him and he can trust it and gives him freedom to change plans.

    Very surprised to see an alliance between the NIMBYS and the NBRU truth be told.


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    #175
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    monument wrote: »
    Do you have an example of where someone needs a car who will be affected by this project?

    Taxis...?


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    #176
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    beauf wrote: »
    Taxis...?

    Effected how?


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    #177
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    bk wrote: »
    This will only directly effect 1,300 homes out of 450,000 or so homes in Dublin!

    No, the garden issue will only affect those. The broader changes have an affect, as I said, for those all along the routes, particularly when it comes to the introduction of one way or circular routes. It has even been highlighted where it has negative effects on cyclists.
    marno21 wrote: »
    The other side of the coin. This project will have benefits across the city, for the whole city. It's not isolated benefits like Metro or a Luas line. It's not an evil land grab by the NTA, the people involved stand to benefit from this scheme.

    Effects are not always negative so there was no need to change my post.


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    #178
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    devnull wrote: »
    Very surprised to see an alliance between the NIMBYS and the NBRU truth be told.

    It does both sides no favour by constantly throwing that lazy term in against those with issues about the project, it's the projects version of Trump's favourite phrase of "fake news".


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    #179
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bk wrote: »
    Effected how?

    I assume they'll use the new lanes. Maybe I'm wrong.


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    #180
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    No, the garden issue will only affect those. The broader changes have an affect, as I said, for those all along the routes, particularly when it comes to the introduction of one way or circular routes. It has even been highlighted where it has negative effects on cyclists....

    True there is always a knock on effect. Sometimes far reaching.


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    #181
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It does both sides no favour by constantly throwing that lazy term in against those with issues about the project, it's the projects version of Trump's favourite phrase of "fake news".

    Seems like you can't be for a project and point out potential issues. No middle ground. Everything is black and white. Apparently.


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