New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

EdgeCase

There's only two tram lines and a little link line. That's the kind of infrastructure scale suitable for Cork City. It's hardly surprising that more people use bikes than that.


Dublin should have a line into every major suburb at this stage, and partial underground stuff similar to what's in use in continental cities like Brussels.

We aren't thinking big enough with public transit in Dublin or in Cork and the other cities desperately need proper bus systems.

LuckyLloyd

monument wrote: »

The NTA seem to be going against their own, city and national policy in indicating it will be giving priority to buses over the safety of cycling.

There’s signs of overreach, for example: In the context of Luas to Finglas and Metro to Ballymun, the two bus routes should not go ahead — it might be an indication of how bus mad the NTA has become suggesting Luas and Metro yet still wanting to CPO front gardens.

If it's a choice between a high capacity high speed bus lane capable of moving mass amounts of people or a cycle lane the choice is easy.

Of course, you would sabotage a project like this for your own narrow agenda, and you and those like you will successfully prevent this from ever coming to fruition. Ho hum.

EdgeCase

Is there any plan to use hybrid busses or electric trolley busses? Seems crazy to just continue using simple diesel.

bk

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm sure travel times is an issue on some routes, but the NTA seem to be so focussed on big (pie in the sky?) capital projects that they're not addressing capacity issues on routes that could be fixed in a much shorter time frame. Even from the point of view of showing how it can work on routes that do have decent infrastructure to sell to areas where they might need to cpo!

So like the project at The Cat & Cage pub in Drumcondra, where they widened the road to add bus lanes and it had an incredible impact, easily taking 15 to 20 minutes off bus journey times along that route?

It, along with the bus gates and quays bus priority projects, have proven these sort of projects work well.

Bambi wrote: »

Looks like all the new radial routes are avoiding the actual city centre, presumably to ensure the smooth running of the cross city luas trophy project. There's a how-are-ye for public transport policy, banning buses from the city centre.

I assume that isn't indicative of anything. These corridors will in fact include multiple different actual bus routes. Clearly when these buses get into the city center, they will use different bus stops, etc.

EdgeCase wrote: »

Is there any plan to use hybrid busses or electric trolley busses? Seems crazy to just continue using simple diesel.

Supposedly the NTA will start purchasing new eco friendly buses from later this year. Possibly either hybrids or bio-fuel.

Technocentral

No gardens either side from top of Finglas Road to the bottom, most of left side is Glasnevin Cemetery and apartments, other side is apartments and industrial estates. Can't figure out at all how it can be widened?

n!ghtmancometh

pclive wrote: »

Clondalkin meets the tallaght QBC in Drimnagh and continues to the city centre

Pay twice and no seat at peak times then so. Still an afterthought.

Qrt

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Pay twice

explain?

sbsquarepants

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The poor souls , 2 high frequency PT options on their doorsteps. How will they ever cope with the related increase in property values. :rolleyes:

I don't live on any of the routes, and use public transport only a handful of times per year, so I'm completely unaffected by all of this, but I'd be absolutely livid at the idea of my garden being turned into a fúcking road!

Qrt

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't live on any of the routes, and use public transport only a handful of times per year, so I'm completely unaffected by all of this, but I'd be absolutely livid at the idea of my garden being turned into a fúcking road!

I'd be annoyed too but the public interest ought to come ahead of the private for once.

serfboard

People who wonder why "we can't do anything right in this country" are about to find out ...

sbsquarepants

Qrt wrote: »

I'd be annoyed too but the public interest ought to come ahead of the private for once.

It probably should in the scheme of things, but the greater good doesn't make it a pleasant experience for the people involved. There is more to life than property values - just because something increases (which is far from certain by the way) the value of your house, doesn't mean it improves your living experience.

I'll take the nice garden over the slightly shorter commute for a load of strangers every time!

Qrt

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'll take the nice garden over the slightly shorter commute for a load of strangers every time!

Slightly shorter? I live at the end of the 27. It routinely takes 90 minutes to either get to or from the City Centre at peak times. If it weren't for the Luas being a fifteen minute walk away, I would have dropped out of college by now.

cfuserkildare

Something about this Smells Really Dodgy,

Most of the routes mentioned already have Bus Lanes, also Cycle lanes, so what gives?

sharper

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'll take the nice garden over the slightly shorter commute for a load of strangers every time!

Realistically how nice can a front garden be on a bus route busy enough to be considered for this?

Addle

sharper wrote: »

Realistically how nice can a front garden be on a bus route busy enough to be considered for this?

Other than for car parking, who ever uses a front garden?

StreetLight

Technocentral wrote: »

No gardens either side from top of Finglas Road to the bottom, most of left side is Glasnevin Cemetery and apartments, other side is apartments and industrial estates. Can't figure out at all how it can be widened?

There's a grass median running along most of that route which can be used. The real bogey is the area around Hart's Corner.

sbsquarepants

Qrt wrote: »

Slightly shorter? I live at the end of the 27. It routinely takes 90 minutes to either get to or from the City Centre at peak times. If it weren't for the Luas being a fifteen minute walk away, I would have dropped out of college by now.

Why exactly do you think some stranger who just happens to live along your route to college should be concerned about your commute times? Or should be happy enough to have a road running through their front garden so you can get an extra half hour in bed or a bowl of cornflakes in the morning?

I do buy the whole greater good argument - I just think it's shítty for the people involved. It's wrong to just dismiss their concerns with talk of increased property prices like they should be only too glad to give away part of their homes to ease a strangers commute. We're not talking about hoarded hectares of land or bits of farm yards - we're talking about peoples gardens!

Dyr

bk wrote: »

So like the project at The Cat & Cage pub in Drumcondra, where they widened the road to add bus lanes and it had an incredible impact, easily taking 15 to 20 minutes off bus journey times along that route?

I certainly haven't noticed that level of improvement, I have noticed that the tiny footpath outside the college is now often completely blocked thanks to the bus stops. Good indicator of how the NTA see pedestrian spaces.

I assume that isn't indicative of anything. These corridors will in fact include multiple different actual bus routes. Clearly when these buses get into the city center, they will use different bus stops, etc.

What are you basing this fact on?

The only thing that's clear is this: The maps clearly show that none of the proposed core routes traverse the city centre. The closest is the rinsgsend route that stops around tara street.

seamus

Technocentral wrote: »

No gardens either side from top of Finglas Road to the bottom, most of left side is Glasnevin Cemetery and apartments, other side is apartments and industrial estates. Can't figure out at all how it can be widened?

Yeah, the document notes particular issues @ Hart's corner. A one-way system or a bus gate of sorts may be a possibility there.

Further up the road there's plenty of parking spaces that can be removed to widen the road.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'll take the nice garden over the slightly shorter commute for a load of strangers every time!

Hence why CPO's exist; so the selfish petty whims of an individual can't block infrastructural progress for society.

BeerNut

Addle wrote: »

Other than for car parking, who ever uses a front garden?

I used to think they were useless until I bought a house on a busy road. It's not about the space itself, it's about the distance your front windows are from the traffic. I'm still very happy to sacrifice mine to the cause of giving Dublin a normal public transport system, though.

bk

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It probably should in the scheme of things, but the greater good doesn't make it a pleasant experience for the people involved. There is more to life than property values - just because something increases (which is far from certain by the way) the value of your house, doesn't mean it improves your living experience.

I'll take the nice garden over the slightly shorter commute for a load of strangers every time!

Most of these homes would already be facing onto what are some of the busiest roads in the whole of Ireland! These corridors are already the busiest bus routes with hundreds of buses passing them all day every day as it is.

Afterall the roads are the core radial routes into the city center.

We certainly aren't talking about quiet country gardens here!

IME Most "gardens" in areas like this have already been tarmacked over to create off street parking. There is little in the way of real gardens.

Of course people will need to be compensated and alternative arrangements made for parking. But no one should be surprised by this living on some of the busiest roads in the country.

sbsquarepants

Addle wrote: »

Other than for car parking, who ever uses a front garden?

Even if you don't use it much it's still nice to have.

All I use one side of my house for is storing wheelie bins, doesn't mean I'd be only too happy to have a bloody bus lane in it's place!

seamus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Even if you don't use it much it's still nice to have.

All I use one side of my house for is storing wheelie bins, doesn't mean I'd be only too happy to have a bloody bus lane in it's place!

Realistically though they already have a busy road running in front of their house.

The NTA will take a few feet off the front of the house, give them a shedload of cash and a nice new front wall, and they get an extra 2.5 m of separation between them and the busy road - bus lanes are quieter than normal lanes.

For many residents the provision of these bus lanes will make it easier for them to get in and out of their homes.

sbsquarepants

bk wrote: »

Most of these homes would already be facing onto what are some of the busiest roads in the whole of Ireland! These corridors are already the busiest bus routes with hundreds of buses passing them all day every day as it is..

Which, personally speaking, if I lived in one of them would make me value those few meters of space all the more.

LeinsterDub

Dravokivich wrote: »

How many buy houses to flip'em? The perceived value doesn't make much difference to most people day to day.

Wouldn't mind getting a chance to read up in bus connects but what I'm seeing in the thread is the same old, into and out of the city.

I never suggested they where buying to flip them. Just saying that after the inconvenience there will be a reward so to speak in terms of an increase to their house prices. I agree perceived value doesn't matter day to day but as I also said they'll have the day to day value of 2 high quality PT option on their doorsteps

GarIT

I wonder how much they will pay out in CPOs to me I'd need at least €50,000 to cover the cost of losing my garden. I've no idea what a parking space is worth and building a road nearer to the house but on top of those loses I'd need the costs of selling my house and buying one of the same size and standard nearby that has parking.

Having a car is essential to my life, I've family in the country that are not connected to public transport so I need a car to be able to visit. Having a car has a huge impact on my sex life too, I'd say I pull twice as much (not that it was high to begin with or is now) having a car just because of logistics. Social life too, I can go out on a night out have a drink or two throughout the night (safely, I monitor my alcohol levels) still and drive home without having to pay €25-30 on a taxi.

I would be devastated if I bought a house with a drive in and then had to sell it and buy another.

LeinsterDub

Technocentral wrote: »

No gardens either side from top of Finglas Road to the bottom, most of left side is Glasnevin Cemetery and apartments, other side is apartments and industrial estates. Can't figure out at all how it can be widened?

Remove the grass either side and in the middle . Simple.

GarIT

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I never suggested they where buying to flip them. Just saying that after the inconvenience there will be a reward so to speak in terms of an increase to their house prices. I agree perceived value doesn't matter day to day but as I also said they'll have the day to day value of 2 high quality PT option on their doorsteps

I can't see the value of a house going up if you take away the garden and move the road closer to the door, even if the bus does go a bit faster.

Addle

Claim won't be up to you to decide.
Please let who know how you get on with applying a financial value to your affected sex life.

bk

Bambi wrote: »

I certainly haven't noticed that level of improvement, I have noticed that the tiny footpath outside the college is now often completely blocked thanks to the bus stops. Good indicator of how the NTA see pedestrian spaces.

I live on the route and use the buses along this route a couple times a week. It has been an AMAZING change.

There use to be major jams here every morning as the buses had to try and force their way into the normal lane of traffic next to them at Cat & Cage. Now the bus simply flies into town.

What use to take me at least 30 minutes, now regularly takes 15 minutes.

Bambi wrote: »

The only thing that's clear is this: The maps clearly show that none of the proposed core routes traverse the city centre. The closest is the rinsgsend route that stops around tara street.

Read the report, the report calls them "corridors", not routes. Each "corridor" includes many routes. For instance the Swords to CC one, includes the likes of the 16, 1, 13, 11, 41, Aircacoh, BE, etc. Obviously they will all separate off in different directions in the city center.

I will say that they will likely also be changes to routes and some may stop becoming cross city routes, however I don't think this shows that at all. It simply shows the radial corridors that they are tackling, which will be shared by many routes.