New bus lanes set to greatly reduce journey times by 50%

Charles Babbage

monument wrote: »

The NTA seem to be going against their own, city and national policy in indicating it will be giving priority to buses over the safety of cycling.

Buses are for everyone, cycling for a (noisy) minority.


If they are into the CPO way of thinking, I suggest quadrupuling the line to Howth Junction would a good use of those powers.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Can see this being a major issue and an unrealistic solution

Changing roads and certain places to one way only sounds like it's going to create bottle necks in other places. (Renelagh/rathmines etc.)

Taking people's front gardens from them with all the claims coming in of having somewhere for small children to play, somewhere to park your personal car ( especially for a disabled person) (also, yes they may use the bus to the city but for other things such as going shopping, getting out of Dublin, they'll need a car)

Value of people's property dropping because of losing the garden but also now you'll have a frequent drone of engines from buses closer to your door.


One thing I'd like to see from this is proper cycle lane infrastructure and make them mandatory.

Cycling in a bus lane, holding up buses when there's a cycle lane available is not on.

Hell, if I drove my bus down a cycle lane there'd be murder over it !

RayCun

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Buses are for everyone, cycling for a (noisy) minority.

Cycling is for a noisy minority, because only a minority of people will cycle in the current conditions.

I cycle along the canal way from Portobello most days. It's a safe, well-maintained route, and a lot of people use it. If there were more options like that for commuters, there would be more people cycling.

PucaMama

What if someone in those houses affected needs their car. I.e. someone with a disability that needs an adapted car.

Macy0161

I'm sure travel times is an issue on some routes, but the NTA seem to be so focussed on big (pie in the sky?) capital projects that they're not addressing capacity issues on routes that could be fixed in a much shorter time frame. Even from the point of view of showing how it can work on routes that do have decent infrastructure to sell to areas where they might need to cpo!

seamus

PucaMama wrote: »

What if someone in those houses affected needs their car. I.e. someone with a disability that needs an adapted car.

There doesn't seem to be any suggestion that anyone will lose parking spots.

Part of some front gardens will be taken and some on-street parking will be lost.

Presumably the number of houses that may be left with no off-street or on-street parking will be tiny, if any.

sharper

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm sure travel times is an issue on some routes, but the NTA seem to be so focussed on big (pie in the sky?) capital projects that they're not addressing capacity issues on routes that could be fixed in a much shorter time frame. Even from the point of view of showing how it can work on routes that do have decent infrastructure to sell to areas where they might need to cpo!

This isn't an either/or thing. The Dublin Bus fleet is also being increased and new drivers hired.

There's no point adding busses if they're all stuck in traffic though.

RayCun

seamus wrote: »

Presumably the number of houses that may be left with no off-street or on-street parking will be tiny, if any.

and what if someone living there needs a van for work?

and what if someone needs a car to drive to a job that isn't in the city?

and what if they need a car to drop their kids to school before driving into town?

and what if they don't like buses and want to drive instead?

if you really need or want a car, and the house you live in isn't going to have space for a car, then you move to a house that is going to have space for a car, further away from major public transport arteries

If we decide that every place that people can live has to have room to park a car, we have to devote massive amounts of space to parking, at the expense of housing, transport, workplaces, parks...

StreetLight

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'm sure travel times is an issue on some routes, but the NTA seem to be so focussed on big (pie in the sky?) capital projects that they're not addressing capacity issues on routes that could be fixed in a much shorter time frame. Even from the point of view of showing how it can work on routes that do have decent infrastructure to sell to areas where they might need to cpo!

You can throw as many buses as you like onto a route, but if there's no bus priority, they'll just end up stuck in traffic.

If the priority is sorted out, then that means buses can complete their journey quickly and thus get more trips done in the same amount of time, which adds to capacity.

seamus

RayCun wrote: »

if you really need or want a car, and the house you live in isn't going to have space for a car, then you move to a house that is going to have space for a car, further away from major public transport arteries

Oh I agree completely.

But in terms of CPOing land to build bus corridors, parking facilities are a pretty big loss for someone who already has them.

Chances are nobody will be left without, but the CPO maybe should include the option for the NTA to purchase the entire property and not just the front garden; if the householder doesn't want to go without.

Then they can modify the front garden and transfer the property to the local authority.

Dyr

Looks like all the new radial routes are avoiding the actual city centre, presumably to ensure the smooth running of the cross city luas trophy project. There's a how-are-ye for public transport policy, banning buses from the city centre.

Absolutely nothing about enforcement or resolving RTPI issues either.

Loads of big plans to expand services without actually resolving fundamental issues those services currently have. It's the public sector way.

If they're CPOing gardens then the promise to replace trees and public/pedestrian space won't be worth a tinkers curse either. You'll be looking at footpaths the size of medieval alleys like college green.

Pelvis

How is this at all feasible? Are they going to seize people's property?

sharper

Bambi wrote: »

Looks like all the new radial routes are avoiding the actual city centre, presumably to ensure the smooth running of the cross city luas trophy project. There's a how-are-ye for public transport policy, banning buses from the city centre.

Part of the upcoming change is likely to be a simplified route system running along well known corridors that you switch between rather than a mess of routes going all over the place.

magicbastarder

Pelvis wrote: »

How is this at all feasible? Are they going to seize people's property?

in short, yes.

Qrt

Pelvis wrote: »

How is this at all feasible? Are they going to seize people's property?

Compulsory Purchase Orders

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Hurrache wrote: »

Rent a gob on all things Dooblin is on Pat Kenny talking about it now, no prizes for guessing his approach.

Who is rent a gob? What is his approach?

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Buses are for everyone, cycling for a (noisy) minority.

Buses are for plebes.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

One thing I'd like to see from this is proper cycle lane infrastructure and make them mandatory.

Cycling in a bus lane, holding up buses when there's a cycle lane available is not on.

Hell, if I drove my bus down a cycle lane there'd be murder over it !

Build thousands of miles of modern, well planned, cycling infrastructure and it still won't be used if it's not well maintained. It needs to be free from obstacles, free flowing, safe, and clear of glass/debris. Also, your analogy is idiotic.

beauf

They'll probably spend a fortune on it, then screw it all up by bad road design choices. Which will completely defeat the purpose of the whole project.

Because thats what they usually do.

downtheroad

Sounds like a good idea in theory but can't see it working because of typical Irish NIMBYism. Look what happened less than a year ago when an idea to remove trees in Fairview to create better cycling infrastructure was put forward.
http://irishcycle.com/2017/08/15/petition-to-save-trees-in-fairview-reaches-nearly-12000-signatures/

Dyr

sharper wrote: »

Part of the upcoming change is likely to be a simplified route system running along well known corridors that you switch between rather than a mess of routes going all over the place.

We shall see, but I have a funny feeling they won't be running routes that start in smithfield and end on O'Connell Street.

Chances are whatever form the transfer system takes it will be a fecking disaster, all the disparate elements have to operate consistently as they should for that to work and Irish public transport has no track record for that

Qrt

downtheroad wrote: »

Look what happened less than a year ago when an idea to remove trees in Fairview to create better cycling infrastructure was put forward.
http://irishcycle.com/2017/08/15/petition-to-save-trees-in-fairview-reaches-nearly-12000-signatures/

1) The trees boasted significant history, they weren't just regular trees.

2) It lead to the redesign of the whole route, which has been broadly welcomed and looks like something straight from Amsterdam.

Macy0161

Abdiel Lively Cup wrote: »

Build thousands of miles of modern, well planned, cycling infrastructure and it still won't be used if it's not well maintained. It needs to be free from obstacles, free flowing, safe, and clear of glass/debris.

And also maintain the same priority as the bus lane/ road traffic rather than having them yield at junctions for which the road traffic has priority.

sharper

Bambi wrote: »

Chances are whatever form the transfer system takes it will be a fecking disaster, all the disparate elements have to operate consistently as they should for that to work and Irish public transport has no track record for that

Well I figured BusConnects would be a decent plan that would ultimately get shredded by the political process. When we start talking about depriotrising cars people suddenly become very worried about the disabled and infirm.

The handling of Luass Cross City really worried me, that was rank incompetence at almost every level.

Projects like this need someone with a firm vision to drive it through, otherwise you end up with comprimises that makes every mode of transport worse and yet cost more.

monkeybutter

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We most definitely need an underground.

Why? I live close to the n4, which now that the keys have 2 bus lanes is just brilliant, it used be slow once you hit the keys. Now it's a dream.

Those who chose to drive to the city center are mad, those who propose to replace the buses with a luas westbound are mad.

The problem is most experiences with the bus are those fighting with traffic, I could take the 40 into town instead, would take at least 1 hour more.

Get rid of some of the routes in an out and funnel them onto the n4 etc with shuttle feeder buses going left and right, give up the keys also, have a loop meaning it you can get across the city

The cost of underground just aint worth it, it would be a beautiful solution, but no.

Teyla Emmagan

downtheroad wrote:

Sounds like a good idea in theory but can't see it working because of typical Irish NIMBYism. Look what happened less than a year ago when an idea to remove trees in Fairview to create better cycling infrastructure was put forward.

That was an absolutely terrible and unnecessary plan and it was rightly rejected. DCC were off their heads trying to force it on us.

Qrt

monkeybutter wrote: »

I live close to the n4.

You don't live near any prospective metro alignment purely because it's served by high capacity roads. Any areas earmarked for an underground metro system don't have such a thing.

Dyr

sharper wrote: »

Projects like this need someone with a firm vision to drive it through, otherwise you end up with comprimises that makes every mode of transport worse and yet cost more.

If the firm vision is turning footpaths into gangways obstructed by bus stops I'll be glad of some shredding in the public interest

Dravokivich

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The poor souls , 2 high frequency PT options on their doorsteps. How will they ever cope with the related increase in property values. :rolleyes:

How many buy houses to flip'em? The perceived value doesn't make much difference to most people day to day.

Wouldn't mind getting a chance to read up in bus connects but what I'm seeing in the thread is the same old, into and out of the city.

downtheroad

Qrt wrote: »

downtheroad wrote: »

Look what happened less than a year ago when an idea to remove trees in Fairview to create better cycling infrastructure was put forward.
http://irishcycle.com/2017/08/15/petition-to-save-trees-in-fairview-reaches-nearly-12000-signatures/

1) The trees boasted significant history, they weren't just regular trees.

2) It lead to the redesign of the whole route, which has been broadly welcomed and looks like something straight from Amsterdam.

1) We are now in 2018, times change, so can trees.
2) The route is awful. Most cyclists coming from Clontarf or Malahide Road cycle in the bus lane through Fairview, slowing down buses. The cycle route through Fairview Park is terrible, gates often closed, broken glass and other debris in the cycle lane, and not a direct route.

LuckyLloyd

You know the story lads. This *should* happen. Along with Metro Link. Along with LUAS expansion. Along with building up and using the likes of ML to build high density living in previously unused areas in the suburbs.

But it won't happen. Because of the way the news has been slanted. Because politics is local in this country and vested interests and lobby groups hold sway. Bus Connects will fail on the basis of this proposal, as many would have predicted.

monument

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Buses are for everyone, cycling for a (noisy) minority.

Yet in many cities like Dublin far more people cycle than use all public transport... how could that be and you still be right?

More residents in Dublin City use bicycles than those who use trams.