The Alpha Male - does he really exist?

JupiterKid

As humans, we love trying to label people and put them into boxes and categories. In reality, people are usually much more complex than that and most people I know don’t really fit neatly into boxes.

So with this in mind, what think yis of the so-called “Alpha” male? The natural leader. The man’s man. Does he really exist? Who do you think could be described as an alpha male and why? Do you consider yourself an alpha male? Is the alpha male the guy who gets all the women?

What makes a guy an alpha male?

As for people thinking that the supposed “Alpha” male cannot be gay, try telling that to the likes of Gareth Thomas, Keegan Hirst (both former rugby team captains) or Donal Og Cusack.

Ficheall

I thought this thread was usually started by the PUA or choresexguy?

Sir Oxman

A bloke I work with is alpha.
He's strong (fit, works out etc) tall, handsome.
Crucially, he's also very social and uses all of the above to position himself naturally as the alpha.
He's the go to guy for advice and for the rest of us to feel good.

Us other mere mortals in work acknowledge it withouts ever saying it.

The fooker is 25.

I'm 50.

Go figure.

tastyt

They exist alright

And they are more often than not, total knobheads.

AllForIt

I've sent you my phone number by PM.

We all know Alpha males. They exist, absolutely. Alpha women equally so. You don’t need a list of random celebrities, nor does it matter what their sexuality is as far as I can tell.

Is this thread just a mechanism to pit people against each other, to give those with a particularly progressive social bent an opportunity to scoff at those of us who refuse to play along with silly popular culture trends?

Well, to hell with that. Celebrate the Alphas. Survival of the species depends on them.

MightyMandarin

All this alpha or beta male ****e is a load of nonsense.

So many lads go around thinking if only they were 6'2 or if they were bigger and stronger, or if they had loads of money or if they had a strong jawline or if they were really intelligent or if they were more talkative or if they had the ability to fly, then they might have a chance to be an "alpha".

It's such crap. Nobody is an 'alpha' and nobody is a 'beta', everyone's just in between somewhere.

The only thing anyone should do is be comfortable with yourself. The world is full of people with insecurities who faff around worrying about **** about themselves that doesn't matter. Life's a lot easier when you realise no amount of wishing you were more like "<Insert popular guy's name here>" will make you them.

There's not enough people in the world who are fully acceptant of themselves imo, so just being one of them is all that one should aspire to be.

AllForIt

MightyMandarin wrote: »

All this alpha or beta male ****e is a load of nonsense.

So many lads go around thinking if only they were 6'2 or if they were bigger and stronger, or if they had loads of money or if they had a strong jawline or if they were really intelligent or if they were more talkative or if they had the ability to fly, then they might have a chance to be an "alpha".

It's such crap. Nobody is an 'alpha' and nobody is a 'beta', everyone's just in between somewhere.

The only thing anyone should do is be comfortable with yourself. The world is full of people with insecurities who faff around worrying about **** about themselves that doesn't matter. Life's a lot easier when you realise no amount of wishing you were more like "<Insert popular guy's name here>" will make you them.

There's not enough people in the world who are fully acceptant of themselves imo, so just being one of them is all that one should aspire to be.

Do you squat and if so why?

MightyMandarin

AllForIt wrote: »

Do you squat and if so why?

Yeah I squat.

I squat cause I want to squat more weight, and when I've squatted more weight I want to squat even more.

Well, that right there is what happens when people get medals for participation instead of just for the top results.

Some people are Alphas. Then there’s most of the rest of us. Right at the bottom of the pile are the losers, the deadbeats, the dreggs.

We’re not all just getting along. We’re not all the same, just trying to make our way and blah blah blah.

If you want to accept yourself just as you are, failings and weaknesses and all, go right ahead. Slide down the scale. Somebody else will step on or over you. That’s the way of the world.

Some Alphas are naturals, socially capable, natural pack builders and leaders. Some have become Alpha by grifting and fighting their way to the top. Every one of them rises above the crowd and the mundane existence of the halfwit that thinks we’re all equal.

Alphas are absolutely real.

AllForIt

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Yeah I squat.

I squat cause I want to squat more weight, and when I've squatted more weight I want to squat even more.

Sounds pretty alpha to me that statement : )

Sir Oxman

MightyMandarin wrote: »

All this alpha or beta male ****e is a load of nonsense.

So many lads go around thinking if only they were 6'2 or if they were bigger and stronger, or if they had loads of money or if they had a strong jawline or if they were really intelligent or if they were more talkative or if they had the ability to fly, then they might have a chance to be an "alpha".

It's such crap. Nobody is an 'alpha' and nobody is a 'beta', everyone's just in between somewhere.

The only thing anyone should do is be comfortable with yourself. The world is full of people with insecurities who faff around worrying about **** about themselves that doesn't matter. Life's a lot easier when you realise no amount of wishing you were more like "<Insert popular guy's name here>" will make you them.

There's not enough people in the world who are fully acceptant of themselves imo, so just being one of them is all that one should aspire to be.

Nah.
We're animals at base.

Alpha exists.

It just is.

I don't think any less of myself in recognising one.

MightyMandarin

JayZeus wrote: »

Well, that right there is what happens when people get medals for participation instead of just for the top results.

Some people are Alphas. Then there’s most of the rest of us. Right at the bottom of the pile are the losers, the deadbeats, the dreggs.

We’re not all just getting along. We’re not all the same, just trying to make our way and blah blah blah.

If you want to accept yourself just as you are, failings and weaknesses and all, go right ahead. Slide down the scale. Somebody else will step on or over you. That’s the way of the world.

Some Alphas are naturals, socially capable, natural pack builders and leaders. Some have become Alpha by grifting and fighting their way to the top. Every one of them rises above the crowd and the mundane existence of the halfwit that thinks we’re all equal.

Alphas are as real as your need for self acceptance.

lol this is some top-tier bull****

It's such a stupid "kill or be killed" outlook on life which just misses the point of life completely.

What is "success"? It's so subjective because nobody can pin it down, and that's why the "they'll step all over you" line is completely wrong.

All that's worth gaining from life is happiness, and nobody needs any amount of material things to achieve this.

ArchXStanton

tastyt wrote: »

They exist alright

And they are more often than not, total knobheads.

Like a friend of mine told a group of my female friends as we were sitting in a bar one night and they were complaining about men....if 100 lads walked in here and 99 of them were sound,yous would find the d!ckhead...infact you would be fighting over him

MightyMandarin

AllForIt wrote: »

Sounds pretty alpha to me that statement : )

It might to you, but to me and most likely to others, it doesn't. That's my point really, there is no one thing someone can point to and say "that's alpha af". Most people just don't care what someone says/does/looks like, so there's no point trying to achieve a goal which will never be achieved.

Incidentally, lifting attracts a certain 'type' who are typically full of **** and come out with this type of 'alpha' talk all the time.

I like lifting cause it's fun. Other people like reading or cycling cause it's fun to them. Lifting is no more an 'alpha hobby' than any other hobby imo.

moneymad

JupiterKid wrote: »

As humans, we love trying to label people and put them into boxes and categories. In reality, people are usually much more complex than that and most people I know don’t really fit neatly into boxes.

So with this in mind, what think yis if the so-called “Alpha” male? The natural leader. The man’s man. Does he really exist? Who do you think could be described as an alpha male and why? Do you consider yourself an alpha male? Is the alpha male the guy who gets all the women?

What makes a guy an alpha male?

As for people thinking that the supposed “Alpha” male cannot be gay, try telling that to the likes of Gareth Thomas, Keegan Hirst (both former rugby team captains) or Donal Og Cusack.

Watch this professor. He might just change your life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NQGQImrpx4

MightyMandarin

MightyMandarin wrote: »

lol this is some top-tier bull****

It's such a stupid "kill or be killed" outlook on life which just misses the point of life completely.

What is "success"? It's so subjective because nobody can pin it down, and that's why the "they'll step all over you" line is completely wrong.

All that's worth gaining from life is happiness, and nobody needs any amount of material things to achieve this.

You’re a student in your early 20’s. You can be forgiven for thinking you know what success, life, happiness and all that means.

Forgiven for thinking it but still wrong. People are dicks. Success on a personal level is subjective, as a member of a socially structured pack it’s much less so. Never underestimate how willing a dick will be to increase their chance of success personally and socially at your expense.

Some of those dicks either are now or one day will be Alphas. Not all, but some. Alpha status is all about dominance, oftentimes combined with an abolity to effectively take a position of leadership.

If you’re happy, you’re happy. Good for you. Just keep your eyes open and you will see that Alpha males and females are very much a real thing. Pretending it’s all BS will at some point in your life end up hurting or hindering you, unless you really don’t want anything for yourself.

Junkyard Tom

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Like a friend of mine told a group of my female friends as we were sitting in a bar one night and they were complaining about men....if 100 lads walked in here and 99 of them were sound,yous would find the d!ckhead...infact you would be fighting over him

That didn't really happen.

Stonedpilot

They are few and far between. With political correctness, hipsters, Feminist brainwashing etc doing thier utmost to kill off alpha men as such.

An alpha male is a male in control. Simples.
Last relationship I was in the woman was big into me being "in control" as such. She was more educated than me and for all her confidence and asurdness in the outside world nothing turned her on more than me being in control of her at home.
Why do folk think 50 shades made billions?. Wasnt men buying the books!.

MightyMandarin

JayZeus wrote: »

You’re a student in your early 20’s. You can be forgiven for thinking you know what success, life, happiness and all that means.

Forgiven for thinking it but still wrong. People are dicks. Success on a personal level is subjective, as a member of a socially structured pack it’s much less so. Never underestimate how willing a dick will be to increase their chance of success personally and socially at your expense.

Some of those dicks either are now or one day will be Alphas. Not all, but some. Alpha status is all about dominance, oftentimes combined with an abolity to effectively take a position of leadership.

If you’re happy, you’re happy. Good for you. Just keep your eyes open and you will see that Alpha males and females are very much a real thing. Pretending it’s all BS will at some point in your life end up hurting or hindering you, unless you really don’t want anything for yourself.

Cheers for the patronising life advice...

I just can't be arsed playing a game which has no end worth having. People can join the rat race to earn as much money or control as many people as possible, but I refuse to believe they will be truly happier than people with supposedly 'less' in life than them.

This is because I see it all the time. People who supposedly 'have it all' feel bad about themselves or end up falling down.

In the end, we all depart from this earth with nothing, so nothing other than our experiences, relationships and knowing we are morally rich matters.

At least that's what I've concluded and despite my age and demographic, I don't think I'll be proven wrong with that.

jigglypuffstuff

Stonedpilot wrote: »

They are few and far between. With political correctness, hipsters, Feminist brainwashing etc doing thier utmost to kill off alpha men as such.

Let's not forget the fact that male genitalia are starting to slowly form into vaginas at an increase of 10% YoY since 2005 in Ireland

Skinny jeans, blow dried pompadours, low cut vests etc ...next it'll be male tampons and a Dear Derek spread (the understanding uncle) next to Deirdre in the sun...

jigglypuffstuff

MightyMandarin wrote: »

In the end, we all depart from this earth with nothing, so anything other than our experiences, relationships and knowing we are morally rich is all that matters.

Define morally rich?.

Imo unless you're a Buddhist monk you're not morally rich

Sone levels of morality? Yes but that depends on your behaviour. For most it's a low level

JupiterKid

I think some men and women are more dominant but I think insecurity and the obsession of what others think of them drives this. Then there are people who are very confident and self-assured. I'd prefer to be the latter than the former.

Yes, us humans are animals but we also have a powerful brain, a mind and a conscience so were are clearly more than driven by purely animal instincts. Anyone who think the world is dog eat dog and that you have to step over others to succeed is a very insecure and unhappy person.

It's important to be happy in life and not be fixated on comparing yourself to others all the time. That is a recipe for misery.

Ficheall

JupiterKid wrote: »

It's important to be happy in life and not be fixated on comparing yourself to others all the time. That is a recipe for misery.

Why did you start a fucking thread on it then?

ArtSmart

MightyMandarin wrote: »

All this alpha or beta male ****e is a load of nonsense.

So many lads go around thinking if only they were 6'2 or if they were bigger and stronger, or if they had loads of money or if they had a strong jawline or if they were really intelligent or if they were more talkative or if they had the ability to fly, then they might have a chance to be an "alpha".

It's such crap. Nobody is an 'alpha' and nobody is a 'beta', everyone's just in between somewhere.

The only thing anyone should do is be comfortable with yourself. The world is full of people with insecurities who faff around worrying about **** about themselves that doesn't matter. Life's a lot easier when you realise no amount of wishing you were more like "<Insert popular guy's name here>" will make you them.

There's not enough people in the world who are fully acceptant of themselves imo, so just being one of them is all that one should aspire to be.

So...not you then?

ArtSmart

Anyway...

Yeah, in any group, a group leader tends to emerge. Without a leader, things tend to go awry.

But who the leader, or Alpha, is, can change, depending on the purpose or objective of the group.

Objectives vary from organising a piss up, to blowing up the Guns of Navarone.

It's an efficient means to achieve end result.

If Alpha is defined in a narrow context (physical prowess, social skills, whatever), that's not really Alpha - that's just description of abilities/ qualities.

If Alpha means 'better than me', then yup, lots of them around - in most contexts, but not all.

In short, we're all potential Alphas, depending on the group objective. It means nothing.


Risk takers, now THERE'S an interesting group of sociopaths....

_Dara_

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Like a friend of mine told a group of my female friends as we were sitting in a bar one night and they were complaining about men....if 100 lads walked in here and 99 of them were sound,yous would find the d!ckhead...infact you would be fighting over him

Stonedpilot

pone2012 wrote: »

Let's not forget the fact that male genitalia are starting to slowly form into vaginas at an increase of 10% YoY since 2005 in Ireland

Skinny jeans, blow dried pompadours, low cut vests etc ...next it'll be male tampons and a Dear Derek spread (the understanding uncle) next to Deirdre in the sun...

Dudes shaving every minute tiny hair off their body. Ugh!. Cut if off lads why dont ye!.

Richard Hillman

MightyMandarin wrote: »

All this alpha or beta male ****e is a load of nonsense.

So many lads go around thinking if only they were 6'2 or if they were bigger and stronger, or if they had loads of money or if they had a strong jawline or if they were really intelligent or if they were more talkative or if they had the ability to fly, then they might have a chance to be an "alpha".

It's such crap. Nobody is an 'alpha' and nobody is a 'beta', everyone's just in between somewhere.

Sounds like we have communist

Irish Guitarist

Honestly it's getting harder and harder to tell this is an Irish forum. 'Alpha male'? Who talks like this?

Your Face

pone2012 wrote: »

Let's not forget the fact that male genitalia are starting to slowly form into vaginas at an increase of 10% YoY since 2005 in Ireland

Skinny jeans, blow dried pompadours, low cut vests etc ...next it'll be male tampons and a Dear Derek spread (the understanding uncle) next to Deirdre in the sun...

Motley Crue looked liked women and they shagged half of LA

BurnUp78

im struggling to think of many "alphas" that i know personally. One place i can think of though that was full of them was Wrestling in the 90s/early 00s. Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, HHH, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Big strong intimidating men that oozed charisma and confidence.. I think that's what made wrestling so special then compared to now.

Billy86

What is this criteria for a supposed 'alpha male'? Is it being able to effortlessly command a room? Is it having a really hot girlfriend who worships him? Is it someone that everyone in their respects and looks up to?

Because I knew a guy like that before who was 5'5, probably south of 130lbs, had glasses and not hideous by any means but certainly no oil painting, didn't work out much if at all or whatnot, and was actually more of an introvert despite being able to turn heads upon arrival without even seeming to try. He just happened to be a really, really nice guy with a great sense of dry humour who was excellent at his job (which happened to be IT of all things) and had a very well rounded general knowledge of the world that had a very similar personality and interests to his other half.

Though whenever I hear people talking about 'the alpha male' the main hang ups from other men tends to be height, physical shape/strength/fitness, dress sense and what the woman on their arm looks like.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think some men and women are more dominant but I think insecurity and the obsession of what others think of them drives this. Then there are people who are very confident and self-assured. I'd prefer to be the latter than the former.

Yes, us humans are animals but we also have a powerful brain, a mind and a conscience so were are clearly more than driven by purely animal instincts. Anyone who think the world is dog eat dog and that you have to step over others to succeed is a very insecure and unhappy person.

It's important to be happy in life and not be fixated on comparing yourself to others all the time. That is a recipe for misery.

There's a difference between dominant and security. I know a few guys who would be pretty secure and confident in themselves but not in the slightest bit dominant. Could also fit the definition of alpha male without too much of a stretech.

For me, the Alpha Male is more the one that makes decisions for himself rather than the group. If the group wants to follow, that's their choice - usually, they will. But if the group doesn't, then he'll happily do it on his own if needs be.

Billy86

Your Face wrote: »

Motley Crue looked liked women and they shagged half of LA

Back when rock'n'roll was dangerous, not like today! :pac:

jimmytwotimes 2013

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Yeah I squat.

I squat cause I want to squat more weight, and when I've squatted more weight I want to squat even more.

More weights? There are no more!

Wibbs

It's far too narrow a term for human social interaction. There have been many models put forward for human social dynamics. The warlike chimp was one, then with the hippie 60's the peaceful bonobo was another, even the social dynamics of wolves another. Thing is we don't fit any of them, though can fit some of them sometimes. The latter being why these notions can become popular, because yes we can point at one behaviour or set of behaviours in isolation and then some will extrapolate that out to fit their own worldview.

Hell, even wolves where the term alpha was seen as most applicable isn't. The alpha/beta wolf is a nonsense. A wolf pack is simply an extended family unit, where the "alpha" male and female are the mammy and daddy and the "beta's" are their kids. So the next time you see a family out and about, that's an alpha/beta setup. NOT.

Humans are a more complex set of ebbing and flowing social dynamics. Are there charismatic people? Of course, but as history has shown us there were many who were publicly in control but behind closed doors were anything but. It's situational too. An "alpha male" in a boardroom, might and likely will be out of their depth in a workshop or lab and vice versa.

Where a lot of this guff is peddled is in the relationship dynamic and popularised by the whole "Pickup" and "Red pill" community. Again where we can point at one behaviour or set of behaviours in isolation and it does fit and then some will extrapolate that out to fit their own preconceived worldview and it grows from there. On that score, I've known more than one "Alpha male" with the ladies who Seemed To Have It all™, men who the Pickup guys would think a "natural", whose girlfriends even wives were playing away with other guys.

TL;DR? It can sometimes appear to be not utter bollocks as a theory, but it is mostly utter bollocks as a theory.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Honestly it's getting harder and harder to tell this is an Irish forum. 'Alpha male'? Who talks like this?

Yep. It's very much an American cultural import. Because it's a more "dog eat dog" society with fewer social safety nets and the American Dream™ thrown into the mix there is a more competitive, even slightly paranoid streak in society and this is partly why the alpha stuff resonates.

mad muffin

Donald trump is alpha

P. Breathnach

Your Face wrote: »

Motley Crue looked liked women and they shagged half of LA

The male half or the female half?

Lorelli!

I think it's just a broad term sometimes used to describe people's social status but has no real meaning or basis.

I don't use the word but if I did i would think it meant someone who was assertive, confident, fair, not afraid to take risks and comfortable in their own skin but having talked to a young lad who works for my oh, what he describes as an alpha sounds to me like a loser that has a few admirers and minions

I think how people assign the term to men or women depends on their own perceptions and how they view masculinity and femininity.

silverharp

I wouldnt get hung up on the terms but there is a male hierarchy(s) like it or not, while your genetics might help you are hinder you we live in a society where it is possible to rise up the hierarchy if its what you want to do.

Wanderer78

mad muffin wrote:

Donald trump is alpha

The Donald is a lot of things, but as Tommy tiernan once said, 'thickness is contagious', I'd be careful!

The Alpha male concept just seeks to excuse behaving like an asshole. Nope. You're not alpha. You're a prick.

being confident in your life is vastly different.

Stonedpilot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Alpha male concept just seeks to excuse behaving like an asshole. Nope. You're not alpha. You're a prick.

being confident in your life is vastly different.

Not really. People Can be very alpha and sound. Like Donald Trump hehe.

The key to confidence is understanding it doesnt exist. Confidence is a buzzword used to sell books, dvds, ted talks,seminars etc.
Genuis marketing really but it doesn't exist. I mean a very "confident" person is just someone assured of themselves not afected by others opinions or judgements are they really "confident" as such. No. Just not affected by other folks bullshyt. Self assured if you must put a label on it.

bodice ripper

I'd live to see some scientific sources for alpha males in humans...

wakka12

Alpha male doesnt exactly have same connotations considering how civilised current society is
But i think of them as a guy every man wants to be and the kind of guy every woman wants to be with
I think they are intelligent actually usually, well spoken, loud and have great presence in a room without being obnoxious, tall strong and good looking too. I think they're usually well liked and treat everyone well because they're so secure in themselves. I think being wealthy and well dressed is another factor too.I know a few of these guys and actually one or two are in fact gay, I don't think the sexuality matters much but the alpha guys I know who are gay are not camp at all, you wouldn't know they're gay till they say
I think they can be any age too( but not like super old like OAP..)


I don't think those stereotypical lads are alpha males at all, that kind of obnoxious dull personality is hated by a large amount of people

wakka12

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Cheers for the patronising life advice...

I just can't be arsed playing a game which has no end worth having. People can join the rat race to earn as much money or control as many people as possible, but I refuse to believe they will be truly happier than people with supposedly 'less' in life than them.

This is because I see it all the time. People who supposedly 'have it all' feel bad about themselves or end up falling down.

In the end, we all depart from this earth with nothing, so anything other than our experiences, relationships and knowing we are morally rich is all that matters.

At least that's what I've concluded and despite my age and demographic, I don't think I'll be proven wrong with that.

Very well said.

somefeen

People come up with this alpha - beta male stuff and use its occurance in other groups of animals as proof that it must exist in humans "because were animals to"

Completely ignoring the fact that many species have odd social orders or none at all. Even other primates don't. Bonobos are basically pansexual polyamourous hippies who don't give a ****.

s7ryf3925pivug

The concept of an alpha is simplistic. Social hierarchies are contextual, dynamic, multi-dimensional.

Some people are more comfortable at being at different levels, and will position themselves where they like to be. That's normal, take a job with more responsibility and clout, or one with less to worry about, whatever suits you.

But it's bad that people buy into the simplistic view of being an alpha male. Leads to guys trying to assert themselves as top dog in every situation, trying to prove their masculinity - regardless of suitability or respect of their peers. Or leads to more basic dumb sh!t like aggressive driving.

On the subject of dogs, they don't have static top dogs either. They have fluid and contextual social structures too.

Stonedpilot

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Not really. People Can be very alpha and sound. Like Donald Trump hehe.

The key to confidence is understanding it doesnt exist. Confidence is a buzzword used to sell books, dvds, ted talks,seminars etc.
Genuis marketing really but it doesn't exist. I mean a very "confident" person is just someone assured of themselves not afected by others opinions or judgements are they really "confident" as such. No. Just not affected by other folks bullshyt. Self assured if you must put a label on it.

I've done the PUA related seminars, NLP conferences, the marketing & sales seminars, etc All the people I've met who promote this "Alpha Male" attitude take on a persona which is abrasive and ultimately superior.

Self-assurance doesn't promote the viewpoint that you're better than everyone else. Self-assurance is knowing that you're capable and don't need the approval of others to ensure that capability.

I'll continue to think of them as pricks until I meet one that's sound.

somefeen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've done the PUA related seminars, NLP conferences, the marketing & sales seminars, etc All the people I've met who promote this "Alpha Male" attitude take on a persona which is abrasive and ultimately superior.

Self-assurance doesn't promote the viewpoint that you're better than everyone else. Self-assurance is knowing that you're capable and don't need the approval of others to ensure that capability.

I'll continue to think of them as pricks until I meet one that's sound.

Pricks with fabulous hats though