The Alpha Male - does he really exist?

BurnUp78

im struggling to think of many "alphas" that i know personally. One place i can think of though that was full of them was Wrestling in the 90s/early 00s. Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, HHH, Undertaker, Stone Cold. Big strong intimidating men that oozed charisma and confidence.. I think that's what made wrestling so special then compared to now.

Billy86

What is this criteria for a supposed 'alpha male'? Is it being able to effortlessly command a room? Is it having a really hot girlfriend who worships him? Is it someone that everyone in their respects and looks up to?

Because I knew a guy like that before who was 5'5, probably south of 130lbs, had glasses and not hideous by any means but certainly no oil painting, didn't work out much if at all or whatnot, and was actually more of an introvert despite being able to turn heads upon arrival without even seeming to try. He just happened to be a really, really nice guy with a great sense of dry humour who was excellent at his job (which happened to be IT of all things) and had a very well rounded general knowledge of the world that had a very similar personality and interests to his other half.

Though whenever I hear people talking about 'the alpha male' the main hang ups from other men tends to be height, physical shape/strength/fitness, dress sense and what the woman on their arm looks like.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think some men and women are more dominant but I think insecurity and the obsession of what others think of them drives this. Then there are people who are very confident and self-assured. I'd prefer to be the latter than the former.

Yes, us humans are animals but we also have a powerful brain, a mind and a conscience so were are clearly more than driven by purely animal instincts. Anyone who think the world is dog eat dog and that you have to step over others to succeed is a very insecure and unhappy person.

It's important to be happy in life and not be fixated on comparing yourself to others all the time. That is a recipe for misery.

There's a difference between dominant and security. I know a few guys who would be pretty secure and confident in themselves but not in the slightest bit dominant. Could also fit the definition of alpha male without too much of a stretech.

For me, the Alpha Male is more the one that makes decisions for himself rather than the group. If the group wants to follow, that's their choice - usually, they will. But if the group doesn't, then he'll happily do it on his own if needs be.

Billy86

Your Face wrote: »

Motley Crue looked liked women and they shagged half of LA

Back when rock'n'roll was dangerous, not like today! :pac:

jimmytwotimes 2013

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Yeah I squat.

I squat cause I want to squat more weight, and when I've squatted more weight I want to squat even more.

More weights? There are no more!

Wibbs

It's far too narrow a term for human social interaction. There have been many models put forward for human social dynamics. The warlike chimp was one, then with the hippie 60's the peaceful bonobo was another, even the social dynamics of wolves another. Thing is we don't fit any of them, though can fit some of them sometimes. The latter being why these notions can become popular, because yes we can point at one behaviour or set of behaviours in isolation and then some will extrapolate that out to fit their own worldview.

Hell, even wolves where the term alpha was seen as most applicable isn't. The alpha/beta wolf is a nonsense. A wolf pack is simply an extended family unit, where the "alpha" male and female are the mammy and daddy and the "beta's" are their kids. So the next time you see a family out and about, that's an alpha/beta setup. NOT.

Humans are a more complex set of ebbing and flowing social dynamics. Are there charismatic people? Of course, but as history has shown us there were many who were publicly in control but behind closed doors were anything but. It's situational too. An "alpha male" in a boardroom, might and likely will be out of their depth in a workshop or lab and vice versa.

Where a lot of this guff is peddled is in the relationship dynamic and popularised by the whole "Pickup" and "Red pill" community. Again where we can point at one behaviour or set of behaviours in isolation and it does fit and then some will extrapolate that out to fit their own preconceived worldview and it grows from there. On that score, I've known more than one "Alpha male" with the ladies who Seemed To Have It all™, men who the Pickup guys would think a "natural", whose girlfriends even wives were playing away with other guys.

TL;DR? It can sometimes appear to be not utter bollocks as a theory, but it is mostly utter bollocks as a theory.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Honestly it's getting harder and harder to tell this is an Irish forum. 'Alpha male'? Who talks like this?

Yep. It's very much an American cultural import. Because it's a more "dog eat dog" society with fewer social safety nets and the American Dream™ thrown into the mix there is a more competitive, even slightly paranoid streak in society and this is partly why the alpha stuff resonates.

mad muffin

Donald trump is alpha

P. Breathnach

Your Face wrote: »

Motley Crue looked liked women and they shagged half of LA

The male half or the female half?

Lorelli!

I think it's just a broad term sometimes used to describe people's social status but has no real meaning or basis.

I don't use the word but if I did i would think it meant someone who was assertive, confident, fair, not afraid to take risks and comfortable in their own skin but having talked to a young lad who works for my oh, what he describes as an alpha sounds to me like a loser that has a few admirers and minions

I think how people assign the term to men or women depends on their own perceptions and how they view masculinity and femininity.

silverharp

I wouldnt get hung up on the terms but there is a male hierarchy(s) like it or not, while your genetics might help you are hinder you we live in a society where it is possible to rise up the hierarchy if its what you want to do.

Wanderer78

mad muffin wrote:

Donald trump is alpha

The Donald is a lot of things, but as Tommy tiernan once said, 'thickness is contagious', I'd be careful!

The Alpha male concept just seeks to excuse behaving like an asshole. Nope. You're not alpha. You're a prick.

being confident in your life is vastly different.

Stonedpilot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Alpha male concept just seeks to excuse behaving like an asshole. Nope. You're not alpha. You're a prick.

being confident in your life is vastly different.

Not really. People Can be very alpha and sound. Like Donald Trump hehe.

The key to confidence is understanding it doesnt exist. Confidence is a buzzword used to sell books, dvds, ted talks,seminars etc.
Genuis marketing really but it doesn't exist. I mean a very "confident" person is just someone assured of themselves not afected by others opinions or judgements are they really "confident" as such. No. Just not affected by other folks bullshyt. Self assured if you must put a label on it.

bodice ripper

I'd live to see some scientific sources for alpha males in humans...

wakka12

Alpha male doesnt exactly have same connotations considering how civilised current society is
But i think of them as a guy every man wants to be and the kind of guy every woman wants to be with
I think they are intelligent actually usually, well spoken, loud and have great presence in a room without being obnoxious, tall strong and good looking too. I think they're usually well liked and treat everyone well because they're so secure in themselves. I think being wealthy and well dressed is another factor too.I know a few of these guys and actually one or two are in fact gay, I don't think the sexuality matters much but the alpha guys I know who are gay are not camp at all, you wouldn't know they're gay till they say
I think they can be any age too( but not like super old like OAP..)


I don't think those stereotypical lads are alpha males at all, that kind of obnoxious dull personality is hated by a large amount of people

wakka12

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Cheers for the patronising life advice...

I just can't be arsed playing a game which has no end worth having. People can join the rat race to earn as much money or control as many people as possible, but I refuse to believe they will be truly happier than people with supposedly 'less' in life than them.

This is because I see it all the time. People who supposedly 'have it all' feel bad about themselves or end up falling down.

In the end, we all depart from this earth with nothing, so anything other than our experiences, relationships and knowing we are morally rich is all that matters.

At least that's what I've concluded and despite my age and demographic, I don't think I'll be proven wrong with that.

Very well said.

somefeen

People come up with this alpha - beta male stuff and use its occurance in other groups of animals as proof that it must exist in humans "because were animals to"

Completely ignoring the fact that many species have odd social orders or none at all. Even other primates don't. Bonobos are basically pansexual polyamourous hippies who don't give a ****.

s7ryf3925pivug

The concept of an alpha is simplistic. Social hierarchies are contextual, dynamic, multi-dimensional.

Some people are more comfortable at being at different levels, and will position themselves where they like to be. That's normal, take a job with more responsibility and clout, or one with less to worry about, whatever suits you.

But it's bad that people buy into the simplistic view of being an alpha male. Leads to guys trying to assert themselves as top dog in every situation, trying to prove their masculinity - regardless of suitability or respect of their peers. Or leads to more basic dumb sh!t like aggressive driving.

On the subject of dogs, they don't have static top dogs either. They have fluid and contextual social structures too.

Stonedpilot

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Not really. People Can be very alpha and sound. Like Donald Trump hehe.

The key to confidence is understanding it doesnt exist. Confidence is a buzzword used to sell books, dvds, ted talks,seminars etc.
Genuis marketing really but it doesn't exist. I mean a very "confident" person is just someone assured of themselves not afected by others opinions or judgements are they really "confident" as such. No. Just not affected by other folks bullshyt. Self assured if you must put a label on it.

I've done the PUA related seminars, NLP conferences, the marketing & sales seminars, etc All the people I've met who promote this "Alpha Male" attitude take on a persona which is abrasive and ultimately superior.

Self-assurance doesn't promote the viewpoint that you're better than everyone else. Self-assurance is knowing that you're capable and don't need the approval of others to ensure that capability.

I'll continue to think of them as pricks until I meet one that's sound.

somefeen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've done the PUA related seminars, NLP conferences, the marketing & sales seminars, etc All the people I've met who promote this "Alpha Male" attitude take on a persona which is abrasive and ultimately superior.

Self-assurance doesn't promote the viewpoint that you're better than everyone else. Self-assurance is knowing that you're capable and don't need the approval of others to ensure that capability.

I'll continue to think of them as pricks until I meet one that's sound.

Pricks with fabulous hats though

21Savage

Of course it exists. It's the natural pecking order. Sad but it's true. But they won't necessarily be dickheads, no more than a non alpha.

21Savage

21Savage wrote: »

Of course it exists. It's the natural pecking order. Sad but it's true. But they won't necessarily be dickheads, no more than a non alpha.

Natural pecking order? Lol. Talent, skill, and luck determine the 'pecking order'.

Generally, I've found the people ascribing to the notion of an Alpha male system, are people who have sought to learn to be Alpha male. They've created themselves. Bodybuilding, testosterone driven activities, confidence audiobooks, etc. They've created the persona. They've encouraged the image to 'exist', and they feel the need to project that image on everyone around them because they're constantly compensating for something that isn't natural to them.

There's very little that's 'natural' about it.

CWF

Yes, he does. And he's probably trying to sell you Tiege Hanley

21Savage

CWF wrote: »

Yes, he does. And he's probably trying to sell you Tiege Hanley

Aware.

Jose the type of Zuniga...oh wait.

Agricola

Thinking back to school days, that is very much a time when kids are getting to grips with the social pecking order and assigning people to it. We haven't yet taken on the notion of common sense or decency that comes long when he get older.

I was always intrigued by how adept children are at sniffing out strength and weakness in others. I'm sure if we remember back to school, even though we weren't obsessed by this pseudo class system that we hear about in US schools (Jocks v nerds etc etc) we still fell into a certain subset. Some kids were really popular outgoing and well liked and respected by others, some kids were tough, no nonsense and no one messed with them, other kids were middle of the road and another set were oddballs, kept to themselves, the victims of bullying etc.

In relation to the concept of the alpha, this was a time before status symbols like nice cars, big jobs, body building & gym bunny stuff, yet some boys most certainly displayed "alpha" attributes while the majority didnt. That was usually in the form of taking control of the flow of conversation in a group and everyone acknowledging a leader of sorts. Often it was a boy who excelled at sport and was a natural leader on the field amongst his peers. It certainly seemed to extend to prowess with females and an abundance of self confidence in their presence.

I think it goes way beyond ideas of cosmetic things like looks, height, fitness. It's about a mentality which is all about bending the world to your will. Manipulating yourself, the situations you find yourself in and manipulating others to get what YOU want. Usually highly driven, extrovert people.

chrissb8

JayZeus wrote: »

You’re a student in your early 20’s. You can be forgiven for thinking you know what success, life, happiness and all that means.

Forgiven for thinking it but still wrong. People are dicks. Success on a personal level is subjective, as a member of a socially structured pack it’s much less so. Never underestimate how willing a dick will be to increase their chance of success personally and socially at your expense.

Some of those dicks either are now or one day will be Alphas. Not all, but some. Alpha status is all about dominance, oftentimes combined with an abolity to effectively take a position of leadership.

If you’re happy, you’re happy. Good for you. Just keep your eyes open and you will see that Alpha males and females are very much a real thing. Pretending it’s all BS will at some point in your life end up hurting or hindering you, unless you really don’t want anything for yourself.

And I’m a male in my late 20’s prime “alpha male” territory.

Yeah you’re wrong it’s a load of crap this alpha male thing. In fact the “alpha” thing or at least a strong secure person would discredit it for the tosh it is.

If I got into work and there’s a guy who’s better at leading and getting things done does that make him alpha? I mean I could step onto the football pitch with him and then I could be the alpha as it were because I’m faster stronger and better at leading in that situation.

I’ve seen 6ft+ men who are strong assertive been diminished to nothing by an intelligent 5ft nothing with a sharp tongue who couldn’t get a woman if they tried. I’ve seen confident men excel in one social situation and fail in another because of the different people.

Alpha is a bunch of crap. Anyone anywhere depending on context can be the dominant assertive one. All you should worry about is being confident enough to have a voice to speak up. And be yourself as wishy washy as that is. People can smell a fake a mile off. If you can learn to be yourself in day to day life confidence will stem naturally from that.

NollagShona

I can’t imagine Boards attracts alpha males. Over compensating Betas- sure!

Atoms for Peace

What a load of complete BS, its the twisting of a theory to suite a loony US individualistic and gender politics agenda.

21Savage

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

What a load of complete BS, its the twisting of a theory to suite a loony US individualistic and gender politics agenda.

Can see the dynamics at play in every area, town, group in Ireland. It's simple human nature.

BTW female attraction is the yardstick for the alpha male. He might not slay but he'll punch above his weight and have a real broad on his arm. Probably finds it easy to move between women and they get hooked easy.
The powerful alpha male is the attractive one. Nobody will challenge their authority. Trump is alpha but a total loser. If he was 20 years younger, handsome and smart, it would be genuinely scary.

bodice ripper

21Savage wrote:

Can see the dynamics at play in every area, town, group in Ireland. It's simple human nature.

Yeah, but any actual studies or data to back it up?