Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

hmmm

LXFlyer wrote: »

The improvement offered by the double bus lane is that buses won't immediately be battling with general traffic when they try to pull out from the bus stop as they do right now. At peak times this can mean they don't move.

We're seeing that already, even before the formal introduction - buses are moving much faster on the North quays. Buses pulling out into a row of stopped cars never made much progress.

Driving a car into the city centre at peak hours should be massively discouraged - I'm hoping the bus priority lights will allow very little private car traffic through at those times, which should discourage private car use along the entirety of the quays.

LollipopJimmy

bk wrote: »

What?! Abbey Street was well dead before the Luas came to it.

It is starting to pick up quiet a bit now along the line.

However much of the property along it is owned by Arnotts owners and awaiting a massive new shopping center. The shopping center didn't go ahead because of the recession, but it is likely back on now.

There was small Newsagents on Middle Abbey St that kept going and going hoping the Luas would bring some business when they had thought initially a stop would be going outside. Never happened and the shop died off.

Abbey St as a whole has been dead for years and years

Spanish Eyes

Ah Jervis Street, forgot about that one.

Would there be a car park or two there by any chance.. wink.

Instead of access from the Quays, they could reverse the traffic flow on Strand Street Little at the junction with Arran Street East, and also Strand Street Great allowing a left turn on to Jervis for the CAR PARKS!

Well it would help enormously wouldn't it.

bk

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

There was small Newsagents on Middle Abbey St that kept going and going hoping the Luas would bring some business when they had thought initially a stop would be going outside. Never happened and the shop died off.

Abbey St as a whole has been dead for years and years

New Bobo's there, doing very well from any time I'm in there.

BaseCamp, a great "new" hiking shop, doing very well.

Arnotts has a Bewleys and Itsa facing onto it and doing very well.

The Bagel Bar Coffee House, sushi place and a new Starbucks opened on Lower Liffey Street.

Big Spar down across from Jervis stop and big Insomnia coffee shop next to it.

BTW The Academy is always busy with concerts. Gin Palace pretty much always jointed, etc.

You can clearly see the street slowly develop and "gentrify".

Of course the street could develop way more, but most of it is owned by the Arnotts owners and awaiting the massive development. Once done, it will really transform the street.

ED E

Moving the "undesirables" away from Abbey St lower would have a hugely positive impact too.

LollipopJimmy

bk wrote: »

New Bobo's there, doing very well from any time I'm in there.

BaseCamp, a great "new" hiking shop, doing very well.

Arnotts has a Bewleys and Itsa facing onto it and doing very well.

The Bagel Bar Coffee House, sushi place and a new Starbucks opened on Lower Liffey Street.

Big Spar down across from Jervis stop and big Insomnia coffee shop next to it.

BTW The Academy is always busy with concerts. Gin Palace pretty much always jointed, etc.

You can clearly see the street slowly develop and "gentrify".

Of course the street could develop way more, but most of it is owned by the Arnotts owners and awaiting the massive development. Once done, it will really transform the street.

Sorry, I rushed my response. I was making the point that the removal of most traffic didn't have a negative effect on the street. It was what it was before the Luas.

While these places are doing well they are not piping along the way you would expect them to in a City Centre. The Spar shops on the Luas stops being the exception

bk

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Sorry, I rushed my response. I was making the point that the removal of most traffic didn't have a negative effect on the street. It was what it was before the Luas.

While these places are doing well they are not piping along the way you would expect them to in a City Centre. The Spar shops on the Luas stops being the exception

Sure Abbey street is one of the many victims of the recession.

The owners of Arnotts basically bought up the entire block between Abbey Street and Henry St and between O'Connell St and Liffey Street! Literally every building in between those streets. That is why Chapters moved out and into a swish new massive store on Parnell St. They got a massive buy out.

The owners of Arnotts had planned to knock almost the entire block and build a massive new shopping center. This, along with the planned development around Dr Quirkeys would have absolutely transformed Henry St, Abbey St and O'Connell St into the key shopping center they deserve to be.

Unfortunately the recession struck just as they were about to start and the whole plan got cancelled. That is why shops along the street continue to be closed or underdeveloped as they seem to be waiting to see what they will do next. Obviously that hurts the street from really taking off.

The big ugly unite building at the other side of Abbey St doesn't help either.

Around that though lots of coffee shops and convenience food stores have sprung up and are doing well enough. Regeneration unfortunately takes time.

But I find myself going down the street pretty regularly now (aside from the Luas) so IMO it has definitely picked up from where it was in the past.

devnull

Useful map here:

patrickbrophy18

Having skimmed through the first 11 pages (undoubtedly there will be more), I'm seeing a lot of the familiar smart-assed, simple minded, rebellious responses. Many of them are saying that motorists are part of the problem without even bothering to look at the other side of the coin.

First off, if we are going to remove or re-allocate space from one type of road user to another, there needs to be a comprehensive contingency plan involving all relevant authorities to accommodate these displaced motorists.

Second off, some of the motorists using the quays are coming from areas without adequate transport links or where the public transport alternative takes considerably longer.

For example, the use of number plate recognition for cars along the quays could be used to build up a rough example of travel patterns. This would feed into the NTA who would plan the introduction of a bus service from these areas based on common grounds. The DATA gathered from the number plate recognition would then send out an email to those car owners notifying them of the upcoming new bus service. Finally, the double bus lane would be introduced and the motorists would make the switch. Ergo, the proper contingency is put in place.

Now, I know that the above example is incredibly optimistic. However, the current situation of inconveniencing motorists without any sort of contingency is kind of like the cart before the horse which makes this move incredibly inconsiderate. Then again, what do you expect with the abundance of self-serving people in office?

brokenarms

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Having skimmed through the first 11 pages (undoubtedly there will be more), I'm seeing a lot of the familiar smart-assed, simple minded, rebellious responses. Many of them are saying that motorists are part of the problem without even bothering to look at the other side of the coin.

First off, if we are going to remove or re-allocate space from one type of road user to another, there needs to be a comprehensive contingency plan involving all relevant authorities to accommodate these displaced motorists.

Second off, some of the motorists using the quays are coming from areas without adequate transport links or where the public transport alternative takes considerably longer.

For example, the use of number plate recognition for cars along the quays could be used to build up a rough example of travel patterns. This would feed into the NTA who would plan the introduction of a bus service from these areas based on common grounds. The DATA gathered from the number plate recognition would then send out an email to those car owners notifying them of the upcoming new bus service. Finally, the double bus lane would be introduced and the motorists would make the switch. Ergo, the proper contingency is put in place.

Now, I know that the above example is incredibly optimistic. However, the current situation of inconveniencing motorists without any sort of contingency is kind of like the cart before the horse which makes this move incredibly inconsiderate. Then again, what do you expect with the abundance of self-serving people in office?

But there has been comprehensive contingency plans.
They will have to get a tram, bus or train if they dont want to be stuck on the Queys all morning. I dont think you are grasping the fact that there will no longer be anymore room for private cars in the near future.
http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RoadsandTraffic/Traffic/Documents/NTA%20Dublin%20City%20Centre%20Transport%20Study%202016%20exec%20summary.pdf

Avada

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Having skimmed through the first 11 pages (undoubtedly there will be more), I'm seeing a lot of the familiar smart-assed, simple minded, rebellious responses. Many of them are saying that motorists are part of the problem without even bothering to look at the other side of the coin.

First off, if we are going to remove or re-allocate space from one type of road user to another, there needs to be a comprehensive contingency plan involving all relevant authorities to accommodate these displaced motorists.

Second off, some of the motorists using the quays are coming from areas without adequate transport links or where the public transport alternative takes considerably longer.

For example, the use of number plate recognition for cars along the quays could be used to build up a rough example of travel patterns. This would feed into the NTA who would plan the introduction of a bus service from these areas based on common grounds. The DATA gathered from the number plate recognition would then send out an email to those car owners notifying them of the upcoming new bus service. Finally, the double bus lane would be introduced and the motorists would make the switch. Ergo, the proper contingency is put in place.

Now, I know that the above example is incredibly optimistic. However, the current situation of inconveniencing motorists without any sort of contingency is kind of like the cart before the horse which makes this move incredibly inconsiderate. Then again, what do you expect with the abundance of self-serving people in office?

As lovely as that idea is (and I'm not being sarcastic). The Data Protection Commissioner would have a canary!

patrickbrophy18

brokenarms wrote: »

But there has been comprehensive contingency plans.
They will have to get a tram, bus or train if they dont want to be stuck on the Queys all morning. I dont think you are grasping the fact that there will no longer be anymore room for private cars in the near future.
http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RoadsandTraffic/Traffic/Documents/NTA%20Dublin%20City%20Centre%20Transport%20Study%202016%20exec%20summary.pdf

A lot of the maps in the above document are city center locations. However, where does it mention the *suburbs and further afield where, I imagine the bulk of the displaced motorists are coming from?

I might want to add that the tram, bus or train you mention mightn't originate from the *locations.

patrickbrophy18

Avada wrote: »

As lovely as that idea is (and I'm not being sarcastic). The Data Protection Commissioner would have a canary!

Thanks for the feedback !

I don't think number plate and location data would intimate enough to cause the aforementioned canary. Otherwise, insurance firms wouldn't be sending their customers emails. What I am talking about is constructive use of data.

magicbastarder

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback !

I don't think number plate and location data would intimate enough to cause the aforementioned canary. Otherwise, insurance firms wouldn't be sending their customers emails. What I am talking about is constructive use of data.

you give your insurance company your contact details. this is a fairly fundamental part of actually having a policy with them, as they need to contact you. you explicitly consent to them having your contact details.
knowing where you drive your car cannot be compared with a company you have a relationship with, having your email address.

bk

People will just have to get use to park and ride.

Again though it is worth reminding people that the majority of people in Dublin City Center get there by walking/cycling/publc transport. Almost 80%

So most people have already made this switch.

Avada

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback !

I don't think number plate and location data would intimate enough to cause the aforementioned canary. Otherwise, insurance firms wouldn't be sending their customers emails. What I am talking about is constructive use of data.

It would. NTA have no legal basis to access the personal information of a vehicle owner (with the exception of buses, taxis or other vehicles regulated by them).

monument

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Having skimmed through the first 11 pages (undoubtedly there will be more), I'm seeing a lot of the familiar smart-assed, simple minded, rebellious responses. Many of them are saying that motorists are part of the problem without even bothering to look at the other side of the coin.

Smart-assed enough to mention in grandstanding, but not enough to actually reply to?

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Second off, some of the motorists using the quays are coming from areas without adequate transport links or where the public transport alternative takes considerably longer.

They'll have options:

• Stay in the low-priority single traffic lane.
• Find an alternative route.
• Reexamine the public transport routes from their areas vs the new realty on the quays.
• Look at official / non-official park and ride options.
• Look at cycling directly.
• Look at park and cycle.
• Reexamine the need for the trip.*

* For example, I know someone who starts west of the city and travels on the quays to an area near Dublin Bay just to go to a gym and then goes to works in south side of the city centre.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

First off, if we are going to remove or re-allocate space from one type of road user to another, there needs to be a comprehensive contingency plan involving all relevant authorities to accommodate these displaced motorists

....

For example, the use of number plate recognition for cars along the quays could be used to build up a rough example of travel patterns. This would feed into the NTA who would plan the introduction of a bus service from these areas based on common grounds. The DATA gathered from the number plate recognition would then send out an email to those car owners notifying them of the upcoming new bus service. Finally, the double bus lane would be introduced and the motorists would make the switch. Ergo, the proper contingency is put in place.

The changes on the quays are part of the contingency plan for Luas Cross City and the disruption that causes to the mode of transport which carries the most people on the quays.

It does not look like you have read the thread or else you don't seem to understand this: The central section of the quays is going to be vital for the bus network -- it will handle the large volumes of buses already on the quays and a lot of the buses which currently use Dame Street. As I and others have pointed to -- if buses and trams are blocked or slowed too much by cars, the watering down of the original plan to have greater car restrictions may have to be revisited sooner than later.

And, as I've already posted in this thread, there also will be extra public transport capacity for contingency:

• Dublin Bus is adding 30 new (non-replacement) buses this year
• There will be a large shot of extra capacity when the private bus company takes over 10% of Dublin Bus routes, and the Dublin Bus buses are freed up to run on their other routes.
• Luas Cross City is new capacity serving some of the areas where car commuters start.
• Luas Cross City is also extra connectivity making previous trips requiring a long walk, now only needing to switch trams.
• The Kildare route trains taking the Phoenix Park Tunnel direct to the central business district is also extra capacity and connectivity and also serves areas in west Dublin where car commuters on the quays come from.

And the Liffey Cycle Route will make cycling safer and more attractive to more people; this year new DublinBikes are on the way with new stations around Grangegorman (go on and try to claim people don't drive from around there, do it); and, in the next year, stationless bicycle share will also likely add to the options people have.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Now, I know that the above example is incredibly optimistic. However, the current situation of inconveniencing motorists without any sort of contingency is kind of like the cart before the horse which makes this move incredibly inconsiderate. Then again, what do you expect with the abundance of self-serving people in office?

If we're going to take such tones... is it also "incredibly inconsiderate" to drive into a city centre and get in the way of buses and trams which carry far more people? Is it "incredibly inconsiderate" to drive -- with the air, noise, and safety issues that causes -- in the most highly populated area in the country?

patrickbrophy18

monument wrote: »

Smart-assed enough to mention in grandstanding, but not enough to actually reply to?

Well if I must mention particular posts, it might come across as attacking the poster wouldn't it. Nevertheless, here are some posts which are rather one-sided:

• markpb wrote: »

  The traffic coming back after the summer holidays will cause mayhem all by itself

  Why not ask yourself why current holiday goers use the car during their normal routine before labeling them as the cause?
  You might find that some of them will cite the lack of adequate and swift transport to the city as the primary reason (and a valid one too).

• Peregrine wrote: »

  It's about time we stopped allocating the majority of road space to the least efficient user and whatever is left over to more efficient users of space.
  
  
  It will improve the journeys of tens of thousands of bus users.

  Again, this is just a one-sided observation without asking why the least efficient user is a least efficient user.
  
  Improving the situation for existing bus users is all very well. However, they should also be tapping in to the least efficient user by providing them with an alternative if that means introducing more bus routes. Make sense?

• LXFlyer wrote: »

  And yes private car owners are going to find life much more difficult while public transport users get prioritised.

  Once more, we see the condemnation of private car owners without asking why they are car owners in the first place.

• brokenarms wrote: »

  If you think thats bad, wait till you see what they do with the lights.
  
  If I were you, I would buy a bus pass.

  Not helping and a very typical Irish response to the issue at hand.

• LeinsterDub wrote: »

  Get out of your car so

  This is beats all the rest. Ask this person where they are coming from and how long it would take them to get to their destination before coming out with such a brash statement.

These posts are just a few which are unbelievably one-sided.

monument wrote: »

They'll have options:

• Stay in the low-priority single traffic lane.
• Find an alternative route.
• Reexamine the public transport lines from their areas.
• Look at park and ride options.
• Look at cycling directly.
• Look at park and cycle.
• Reexamine the need for the trip.*

* For example, I know someone who starts west of the city and travels on the quays to an area near Dublin Bay just to go to a gym and then goes to works in south side of the city centre.

I think the fact that they work is a very valid need for the trip given that they would be paying taxes to the government etc. Moreover, going to the gym and then going to work is something that would take many times the length by public transport which is where flexibility of having a car comes in.

monument wrote: »

The changes on the quays are part of the contingency plan for Luas Cross City and the disruption that causes to the mode of transport which carries the most people on the quays.

However, there is no commitment by the transport providers to provide for the inconvenienced motorists.

monument wrote: »

It does not look like you have read the thread or else you don't seem to understand this: The central section of the quays is going to be vital for the bus network -- it will handle the large volumes of buses already on the quays and a lot of the buses which currently use Dame Street. As I and others have pointed to -- if buses and trams are blocked or slowed too much by cars, the watering down of the original plan to have greater car restrictions may have to be revisited sooner than later.

I have read through it. This logic of improving the situation for existing users while not tapping into the private car users is the ultimate issue here.

monument wrote: »

And, as I've already posted in this thread, there also will be extra public transport capacity for contingency:

• Dublin Bus is adding 30 new (non-replacement) buses this year
• There will be a large shot of extra capacity when the private bus company takes over 10% of Dublin Bus routes, and the Dublin Bus buses are freed up to run on their other routes.
• Luas Cross City is new capacity serving some of the areas where car commuters start.
• Luas Cross City is also extra connectivity making previous trips requiring a long walk, now only needing to switch trams.
• The Kildare route trains taking the Phoenix Park Tunnel direct to the central business district is also extra capacity and connectivity and also serves areas in west Dublin where car commuters on the quays come from.

This is all very well and good. Thankfully, after decades of petitions, the Phoenix Park Tunnel was opened up to passenger services. Moreover, the Luas Cross City project is finally approaching completion. So, this should soften the blow partially. However, much of the remaining measures are just rejigging or privatization of existing routes without the mention of new ones to cater for the displaced car users with no attractive alternative in place.

monument wrote: »

If we're going to take such tones... is it also "incredibly inconsiderate" to drive into a city centre and get in the way of buses and trams which carry far more people?

In this example, it is as laws are inevitably being broken when blocking buses and trams given that space allocated to them.

monument wrote: »

Is it "incredibly inconsiderate" to drive -- with the air, noise, and safety issues that causes -- in the most highly populated area in the country?

As long as they abide by the law, it isn't "incredibly inconsiderate". If their end lacks even basic direct connectivity to the center, their trip by car is justified. On the other hand, inconveniencing them is "incredibly inconsiderate" as it's all take and no give. We have to incentivise these users and not demonize them which is a recurring theme in this thread.

Interested Observer

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I don't cycle along the quays but I am curious as to how the double Pearse Street bus lane is working. That has been a double lane for a good while now so I would imagine the north quays will be similar when it starts. Anybody any direct experience of cycling or using the bus along that one.

Especially during peak times when I imagine traffic volumes would be similar.

I commute on my bike and I use the north quays every morning. Noticed they'd changed the lanes last week. Without doubt I feel safer with the double bus lane in place rather than two lanes of car traffic.

Have only cycled down Pearse St very rarely but used the bus lane and didn't have any issue.

I wish more people would consider cycling. I have an 8km each way commute each morning that takes me right through the middle of the city, it's under 30 mins on the bike which is much quicker than either driving or getting the bus. Plus it's actually quite enjoyable and has all the associated health benefits of getting out and doing some exercise. And yes I think cyclists should observe the rules of the road.

devnull

But it's a circular argument, the more infrastructure for cars the less there is for buses therefore slowing the buses down and creating the whole issues that you are talking about. Cars use of roadspace is grossly ineffiecent and is the direct cause of the lack of adequate and swift public transport in a lot of cases.

Congestion will only get worse if it is not addresses now and part of addressing that means that we need to make more effiecent use of our road space for the long term good of the city else traffic is going to get worse and worse and wors.

Unfortunately it's only right that the least effiecent road users are the ones that are targeted.

hmmm

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

If their end lacks even basic direct connectivity to the center, their trip by car is justified. On the other hand, inconveniencing them is "incredibly inconsiderate" as it's all take and no give. We have to incentivise these users and not demonize them which is a recurring them in this thread.

There is any number of spots on the outskirts of the cities where they can park and catch a LUAS or Bus.

Let's face it - most drivers don't want to use public transport because their car is more comfortable. I can understand that, I'd prefer to drive myself - but the city planners have to cope with getting thousands of people into and out of the city centre every day, and they can't provide freedom of choice for everyone. The solution in every other modern city is public transport - instead of trying to roll back the clock to some magical time when everyone could drive in and out of Dublin, we need to pressurising our politicians to invest in a first class public transport network.

LXFlyer

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Well if I must mention particular posts, it might come across as attacking the poster wouldn't it. Nevertheless, here are some posts which are rather one-sided:

• 
  Why not ask yourself why current holiday goers use the car during their normal routine before labeling them as the cause?
  You might find that some of them will cite the lack of adequate and swift transport to the city as the primary reason (and a valid one too).
• 
  Again, this is just a one-sided observation without asking why the least efficient user is a least efficient user.
  
  Improving the situation for existing bus users is all very well. However, they should also be tapping in to the least efficient user by providing them with an alternative if that means introducing more bus routes. Make sense?
• 
  Once more, we see the condemnation of private car owners without asking why they are car owners in the first place.
• 
  Not helping and a very typical Irish response to the issue at hand.
• 
  This is beats all the rest. Ask this person where they are coming from and how long it would take them to get to their destination before coming out with such a brash statement.

These posts are just a few which are unbelievably one-sided.



I think the fact that they work is a very valid need for the trip given that they would be paying taxes to the government etc. Moreover, going to the gym and then going to work is something that would take many times the length by public transport which is where flexibility of having a car comes in.



However, there is no commitment by the transport providers to provide for the inconvenienced motorists.



I have read through it. This logic of improving the situation for existing users while not tapping into the private car users is the ultimate issue here.

[/LIST]

This is all very well and good. Thankfully, after decades of petitions, the Phoenix Park Tunnel was opened up to passenger services. Moreover, the Luas Cross City project is finally approaching completion. So, this should soften the blow partially. However, much of the remaining measures are just rejigging or privatization of existing routes without the mention of new ones to cater for the displaced car users with no attractive alternative in place.



In this example, it is as laws are inevitably being broken when blocking buses and trams given that space allocated to them.



As long as they abide by the law, it isn't "incredibly inconsiderate". If their end lacks even basic direct connectivity to the center, their trip by car is justified. On the other hand, inconveniencing them is "incredibly inconsiderate" as it's all take and no give. We have to incentivise these users and not demonize them which is a recurring theme in this thread.

With respect you're not including or actually addressing the context of the situation in which I made that comment.

We have a situation where very shortly there are going to be trams crossing in both directions across the River Liffey every three minutes.

A large number of additional bus routes are going to be diverted onto the Quays due to the closure of College Green as a through route, meaning 175 buses from all operators in one hour will have to pass along the North Quays in the morning.

Surely tells you that something will have to be done to keep the public transport moving in the city, and that the only option is to give it more priority. If you can't see that then frankly you're blind.

You do also realise that if bus journeys can be speeded up, each bus can do more trips?

I make no apology for saying that public transport needs to be prioritised in these circumstances, and that unfortunately for private motorists, they will find it more difficult to drive through the city centre. The current situation is unsustainable from a purely practical viewpoint. You won't fit all those cars, buses and trams through that space - it cannot be done.

I don't see that as "unbelievably one sided" - I see it as looking at the practicalities of the impact of LUAS cross-city arriving.

For the record I wasn't condemning anyone - I was making the rather obvious statement that if a general traffic lane is removed from both Quays, it's pretty clear that private motorists driving through the city centre will find it more difficult, in order to prioritise public transport.

Avada

Personally, I don't think any amount of bus lanes will change driver behaviour.

The only thing that will get people out of their cars is a congestion charge for the city centre imo.

jimmycrackcorm

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

First off, if we are going to remove or re-allocate space from one type of road user to another, there needs to be a comprehensive contingency plan involving all relevant authorities to accommodate these displaced motorists.

The contingency plan is take a different route - because you can or start using public transport.

Second off, some of the motorists using the quays are coming from areas without adequate transport links or where the public transport alternative takes considerably longer.

Just because you are driving doesn't mean you need to be glued to the driving seat for your whole journey.

Now, I know that the above example is incredibly optimistic. However, the current situation of inconveniencing motorists without any sort of contingency is kind of like the cart before the horse which makes this move incredibly inconsiderate. Then again, what do you expect with the abundance of self-serving people in office?

Motorists are actually inconveniencing vast numbers of people travelling by bus. On the quays before this change a Dublin bus with 90 people is sitting along side an equivalent space of two cars with just two drivers for the most part. The bus route is fixed, but those two drivers don't have to go via the quays.

_Kaiser_

Avada wrote: »

Personally, I don't think any amount of bus lanes will change driver behaviour.

The only thing that will get people out of their cars is a congestion charge for the city centre imo.

.. and a decent, attractively-priced, reliable alternative which goes where the user needs to go, not just what suits the operator (the obsession with running everything through "An Lar" for example)

But I would agree with Patrick - many of those still enduring the daily drive are doing so because using the public transport options in their area would add potentially hours to their day, additional significant costs - and that's assuming there's services at all.

Let's also not forget that we have a housing/rental crisis in Dublin, the result of which is that many people have been forced to move further out and commute to their jobs (which unfortunately have not moved with them). Once you go even 50km outside the city, your options become extremely limited.

I do feel sympathy though for those motorists who will have no choice but to deal with these half-baked changes from a Council that is clearly in a massive rush to try and show how "modernly European" it's become with it's new priority systems and plazas and what not... Luckily these changes won't affect me personally as I can count on one hand the number of times I've been in the city centre area in the last 12 months, partly because getting around has become such a pain, but also because I've absolutely no real reason to go into town anymore whether it be for shopping, work, or socialising.

More than that, I've turned down job interviews because there's no way I'd find adding hours to my day (either by driving or using public transport), or paying ridiculous rents attractive.. not to mention the anti-social sort that inhabit many of these "alternative" services (and I don't just mean the zombified or aggressive junkie types, but the tools blasting music from their phones, or taking over half the upper deck).

It's all well and good demonising the private motorist for having the gall to use the roads his/her taxes help pay for, and dreaming of a utopia where we all cycle or uses buses/trams to get around... but in the real world, there's a lot more to be done than adding some bus lanes to address the problems with transport generally in Dublin.

magicbastarder

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I do feel sympathy though for those motorists who will have no choice but to deal with these half-baked changes from a Council that is clearly in a massive rush to try and show how "modernly European" it's become

how many motorists will this affect? what percentage of people use the quays to get to work, who are driving private cars?

patrickbrophy18

magicbastarder wrote: »

how many motorists will this affect? what percentage of people use the quays to get to work, who are driving private cars?

Then, why did you say the following?

magicbastarder wrote: »

you give your insurance company your contact details. this is a fairly fundamental part of actually having a policy with them, as they need to contact you. you explicitly consent to them having your contact details.
knowing where you drive your car cannot be compared with a company you have a relationship with, having your email address.

The purpose of my proposal for a number plate recognition system on the quays would be to build up usage statistics so that new bus services could be introduced to cater for those being inconvenienced by these new plans.

Plus, one would imagine that if these statistics are harnessed for the provision of new routes, it would be seen as a positive from a customer facing perspective.

howiya

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Then, why did you say the following?



The purpose of my proposal for a number plate recognition system on the quays would be to build up usage statistics so that new bus services could be introduced to cater for those being inconvenienced by these new plans.

Plus, one would imagine that if these statistics are harnessed for the provision of new routes, it would be seen as a positive from a customer facing perspective.

While it would be useful to have such data the method of collecting it you have suggested would go against data protection rules. Maybe motorists could complete a short survey while stuck in traffic along the quays.

The answer to the question is that approximately 500 cars use the quays during the 8am-9am peak period. Over 7,000 people are carried by buses and that will increase when buses are rerouted along the quays

Cookie_Monster

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But I would agree with Patrick - many of those still enduring the daily drive are doing so because using the public transport options in their area would add potentially hours to their day, additional significant costs - and that's assuming there's services at all.

and many of those are still just driving because it suits them despite the alternatives they have...

no matter what you do anywhere in the city you'll put someone out. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few though and thing need to change to address the many issues excessive private traffic creates, slowing everything down for everyone.

AlekSmart

howiya wrote: »

While it would be useful to have such data the method of collecting it you have suggested would go against data protection rules. Maybe motorists could complete a short survey while stuck in traffic along the quays.

The answer to the question is that approximately 500 cars use the quays during the 8am-9am peak period. Over 7,000 people are carried by buses and that will increase when buses are rerouted along the quays

Although appearing to be a low number initially,500 Vehicles Per Hour,is accurate,when Taxi's are factored out.
However,it is quite likely that the benefits of this 500 VPH's removal will be short-lived,as they are replaced by more Taxi's.
What the Bachelors Walk plan will quickly reveal is the pressing requirement for a limit on Taxi Access to this zone.
If not recognized,it will rapidly become another nightly Georges Street scenario.

ALL of these plans,however,depend totally upon enforcement...visible and constant enforcement,nothing less will do,and such a policy is alien to Dublin's Traffic Administrators.
Placing "Ordinary" beat Gardai on & around this area will most likely cause even further disruption,as they lean into each and every queuing car to "chat" with an endless stream of Drivers who,do not use the Internet,do not read newspapers,do not watch TV,do not listen to the wireless,or who have just been released from an institution etc etc etc.

Traffic Corps members however,if they can be found,will focus on the job in hand,and keep traffic moving,with the bemused and befuddled motorist then having to practice with the big roundy thing in front of them,and steer their vehicle in a different direction,not always an easy option in our current enclosed,comfortable and sterile personal driving environment space.

Perhaps a few days holidays are in order next week :eek: