Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

wait4me

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

Peregrine

It's about time we stopped allocating the majority of road space to the least efficient user and whatever is left over to more efficient users of space.

wait4me wrote: »

This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

It will improve the journeys of tens of thousands of bus users.

pclive

wait4me wrote: »

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

Great news for bus passengers

markpb

wait4me wrote: »

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

The traffic coming back after the summer holidays will cause mayhem all by itself

LXFlyer

wait4me wrote: »

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

A shock??
This has been discussed widely here for the last six months!!!

The changes do not become effective until Sunday August 20th.

And yes private car owners are going to find life much more difficult while public transport users get prioritised.

I suspect that once the trams start running we will see further changes.

Xterminator

makes sense to prioritise public transport in the city centre to me. if you have ever come up the quays on a bus in heavy traffic, it is very frustrating and slow.

how may people going from A-B have to use the quays? I'd hazard a guess less than 1/2 have a final destination on the quays, so a different route would seem sensible - this will encourage people to use alternate routes.

brokenarms

wait4me wrote: »

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

If you think thats bad, wait till you see what they do with the lights.

If I were you, I would buy a bus pass.

magicbastarder

wait4me wrote: »

This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

the acid test will be whether the throughput (in terms of passengers carried) will go up or down as a result.

StreetLight

So, will it be policed and enforced?

Avada

StreetLight wrote: »

So, will it be policed and enforced?

Probably not. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Dublin City Centre needs automatic enforcement of bus lanes, yellow boxes and red lights (starting at luas junctions) using ANPR cameras. These could also be used to enforce tax, nct and insurance.

Dravokivich

Reduce availability of parking on the quays sounds like an easy answer to this one. They can be very effectively used as a means of routing traffic along the centre of the city. Might be too easy an answer though.

LXFlyer

brokenarms wrote: »

If you think thats bad, wait till you see what they do with the lights.

If I were you, I would buy a bus pass.

I think that's going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back, along with the weaving on Ormond Quay Upper.

The arrival of the trams on testing from early September will be the acid test of everything.

AlekSmart

Dravokivich wrote: »

Reduce availability of parking on the quays sounds like an easy answer to this one. They can be very effectively used as a means of routing traffic along the centre of the city. Might be too easy an answer though.

A short journey along Ormond Quay this morning revealed that DCC had matched the shiny new Double Bus Lane,with equally shiny Car Parking Bays along the Quay Wall....;)

Tigger

brokenarms wrote: »

If you think thats bad, wait till you see what they do with the lights.

If I were you, I would buy a bus pass.

Or a taxi plate

IE 222

Buses will move more freely on the quays but they will be delayed longer getting ONTO the quays especially any North or south travelling routes . Really just shifting the problem from one area to another imo. Buses don't suit everbodies travel needs there will always be a requirement for private cars.

Ciaran_B

StreetLight wrote: »

So, will it be policed and enforced?

I'd be very surprised. The existing bus lane is full of taxis, private cars and parked coaches every day of the week. No reason for them to stop using this new lane.

LeinsterDub

wait4me wrote: »

A shock this morning. New road lineage from Ormond Quay to Batchelors Walk creates a double bus lane and one single traffic lane. This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

Get out of your car so

Podge_irl

IE 222 wrote: »

Buses don't suit everbodies travel needs there will always be a requirement for private cars.

Unless you think that every single person currently driving a private car into the city centre really needs to then that is irrelevant. There is still access for private cars. Perhaps those who do not actually need to drive, who I imagine make up the majority, will reconsider.

wait4me

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Get out of your car so

I don't travel by car into the city centre :rolleyes:;)

wait4me

Peregrine wrote: »

It's about time we stopped allocating the majority of road space to the least efficient user and whatever is left over to more efficient users of space.


It will improve the journeys of tens of thousands of bus users.

And cyclists

jon1981

I noticed yesterday alot of cars still using the old lane (now a bus lane). The Gardai might need to use a bit of stick in the form of a few fines to encourage cars to stop using it. They'll eventually get the message.

wait4me

jon1981 wrote: »

I noticed yesterday alot of cars still using the old lane (now a bus lane). The Gardai might need to use a bit of stick in the form of a few fines to encourage cars to stop using it. They'll eventually get the message.

Apparently the new lane doesn't into effect until later this month.

LollipopJimmy

There are never that many buses on that particular Quay at once, it's usually tour buses illegally parked that cause the problem.
I cycled along there twice this week and it's mayhem at the moment with taxi drivers darting every which way, it's a common enough place for taxis to get flagged in the evening and they all want to get ahead of each other.

LeinsterDub

wait4me wrote: »

I don't travel by car into the city centre :rolleyes:;)

So why are you concerned about it causing traffic mayhem?

ED E

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

There are never that many buses on that particular Quay at once, it's usually tour buses illegally parked that cause the problem.
I cycled along there twice this week and it's mayhem at the moment with taxi drivers darting every which way, it's a common enough place for taxis to get flagged in the evening and they all want to get ahead of each other.

If its not a clearway already make it one, then get a taxi regulator who will revoke licences for the usual taxi skullduggery. That'll resolve it. Asking the gardai is pointless.

wait4me

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So why are you concerned about it causing traffic mayhem?

Its dangerous enough all ready for cyclists - this makes a dual carriageway for buses and taxis along the quays. Let's see

Seaswimmer

wait4me wrote: »

Its dangerous enough all ready for cyclists - this makes a dual carriageway for buses and taxis along the quays. Let's see

I don't cycle along the quays but I am curious as to how the double Pearse Street bus lane is working. That has been a double lane for a good while now so I would imagine the north quays will be similar when it starts. Anybody any direct experience of cycling or using the bus along that one.

Especially during peak times when I imagine traffic volumes would be similar.

LeinsterDub

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I don't cycle along the quays but I am curious as to how the double Pearse Street bus lane is working. That has been a double lane for a good while now so I would imagine the north quays will be similar when it starts. Anybody any direct experience of cycling or using the bus along that one.

Especially during peak times when I imagine traffic volumes would be similar.

I've found Pearse safer with the double lane . Buses and Taxis in general take the outside line or will have enough space to over take if in the inside lane

daheff

Peregrine wrote: »

It's about time we stopped allocating the majority of road space to the least efficient user and whatever is left over to more efficient users of space.
It will improve the journeys of tens of thousands of bus users.

Its about time we started adding to the total commuting capacity rather than reallocating what we have. We're getting to the stage where reallocation isn't a viable alternative much longer.

We need to take a leaf out of a lot of other major cities books and build a tunnel system to allow car access to the city centre. And underground rail. We dont have overground capacity anymore.

IE 222 wrote: »

Buses will move more freely on the quays but they will be delayed longer getting ONTO the quays especially any North or south travelling routes . Really just shifting the problem from one area to another imo. Buses don't suit everbodies travel needs there will always be a requirement for private cars.

Good point. Some people just dont live anywhere convenient to a public transport route....some people drive considerable distances to get to work....so even the idea of driving x distance and then getting public transport isnt feasible. They've already got the sunk costs of car/tax/insurance...the additional petrol/diesel is far less than the cost of park & ride & public transport (even if we had sufficient P&R facilities available).

Podge_irl wrote: »

Unless you think that every single person currently driving a private car into the city centre really needs to then that is irrelevant. There is still access for private cars. Perhaps those who do not actually need to drive, who I imagine make up the majority, will reconsider.

No, not everybody who drives a car needs to. But I would hazard a guess that a lot do. Probably due to inadequate or unsuitable (or none at all) public transport from their home/ back home.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So why are you concerned about it causing traffic mayhem?

Concerned citizen. You dont need to a car user to understand the knock on implications -or be concerned about it.



In any case...having double bus lane is all well and good if there are more buses available to use the capacity. I'll guess that there wont be any additional buses, so in actual fact all this does is reduce car carrying capacity on the quays.

thomasj

LollipopJimmy wrote:

There are never that many buses on that particular Quay at once, it's usually tour buses illegally parked that cause the problem. I cycled along there twice this week and it's mayhem at the moment with taxi drivers darting every which way, it's a common enough place for taxis to get flagged in the evening and they all want to get ahead of each other.

You've got to be kidding me!

Manys a time I've been on a bus and it's taken 5 or so minutes to get from the lights to the bus stop, it's ridicilous how bad that stretch gets in the morning and evening peak.

magicbastarder

is there any legal or by law construct to make one of the two bus lanes strictly for buses and bikes only? i.e. to deny access to taxis.

jon1981

I cycle the quays daily, I don't have a problem with taxis at all, just be mindful that they need to pull in and out.

The tour buses as someone mentioned are the worst, they hog the curb and park up along a good section of Batchelors walk.

Seaswimmer

What are the hours of the new bus lanes. 7 to 7 Monday to Saturday???

Spanish Eyes

Tour buses and private bus operators should have their stops on Eden Quay. But maybe there is a reason this is not happening.

Avada

magicbastarder wrote: »

is there any legal or by law construct to make one of the two bus lanes strictly for buses and bikes only? i.e. to deny access to taxis.

Yes, thats the case with the bus lane on Stephens Green

wait4me

daheff wrote: »

Concerned citizen. You dont need to a car user to understand the knock on implications -or be concerned about it.

One of those implications is when there are events on in Dublin city (either in the evenings or weekends) such as concerts in the 3Arena or indeed games or concerts in Croke Park or the Aviva. Anybody coming from the south and west of Dublin or indeed Ireland (NOT commuters) has no real or viable option other than driving. Car traffic at those times (not commuting times!) will have to funnel into one lane on the North Quays to get where they need to get

wait4me

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Tour buses and private bus operators should have their stops on Eden Quay. But maybe there is a reason this is not happening.

Tour buses picking up at hotels

LollipopJimmy

thomasj wrote: »

You've got to be kidding me!

Manys a time I've been on a bus and it's taken 5 or so minutes to get from the lights to the bus stop, it's ridicilous how bad that stretch gets in the morning and evening peak.

I'm not disputing the fact that the Quay is a mess. But IMO widening the bus lane is like dropping a nuclear warhead on your back garden to take care of an ant's nest.
Dealing with the illegal parking and kamikaze taxis would have been a much cheaper solution.

magicbastarder

cheaper, maybe. effective?
you have one lane that carries 8,000 people per hour, and two lanes which each (i think) carry 600 people per hour on one stretch. it makes perfect sense that you would swap the use of the middle lane over to a more efficient mode of transport. sure, it won't suit some people, but the numbers it should benefit will greatly outweigh that.

daheff

magicbastarder wrote: »

cheaper, maybe. effective?
you have one lane that carries 8,000 people per hour, and two lanes which each (i think) carry 600 people per hour on one stretch. it makes perfect sense that you would swap the use of the middle lane over to a more efficient mode of transport. sure, it won't suit some people, but the numbers it should benefit will greatly outweigh that.

But only if there is a corresponding increase in bus services. You now have capacity for 8K+600+600 vs 8K+8k+600 (7200 increase). And only on this spot of the commute.

So to my mind all that has happened is you have gone from 9200 to 8600 as there (more than likely) wont be increased buses to take up the additional 7200 potential capacity. But car usage wont change, and are now taking up less space with same number of cars.


If DB were to increase services to make better use of the additional capacity on the quays is there sufficient space on other parts of the routes to use this increase capacity on the quays (a small part of the journey-distance wise at least, but probably not time wise)?

wait4me

daheff wrote: »

(a small part of the journey-distance wise at least, )?

700 - 750 metres (approximately) according to the old reliable, google maps.

AndrewJRenko

wait4me wrote: »

One of those implications is when there are events on in Dublin city (either in the evenings or weekends) such as concerts in the 3Arena or indeed games or concerts in Croke Park or the Aviva. Anybody coming from the south and west of Dublin or indeed Ireland (NOT commuters) has no real or viable option other than driving. Car traffic at those times (not commuting times!) will have to funnel into one lane on the North Quays to get where they need to get

Unless they chose to use the Luas Red Line to the Point, with extensive park and ride options on both Red and Green line incoming, or the train/Dart to Landsdowne, or the train to Drumcondra or bus to Croker either on Drumcondra Road or Amiens St - if they can't or won't use any of those options then they definitely have no viable option other than driving.

Podge_irl

daheff wrote: »

No, not everybody who drives a car needs to. But I would hazard a guess that a lot do. Probably due to inadequate or unsuitable (or none at all) public transport from their home/ back home.

I would hazard a guess in the complete opposite direction.

Nonetheless, buses not getting caught up on the quays will contribute greatly to a more efficient public transport set-up. You can't wait until the public transport is better to bring in these changes because they are necessary to make the public transport better. A bus system that actually runs on time would increase its attractiveness as an option.

markpb

daheff wrote: »

So to my mind all that has happened is you have gone from 9200 to 8600 as there (more than likely) wont be increased buses to take up the additional 7200 potential capacity. But car usage wont change, and are now taking up less space with same number of cars.

International experience has shown that removing car capacity from roads does make the traffic go away. Some people will take alternative routes, others will take alternative modes and others will stop traveling.

Improving bus lane reliability will make the bus network more attractive because journeys will be faster, not just for Dublin Bus but also for the large numbers of intercity operators using that route.

You're also making the incorrect assumption that a road should be at full capacity all the time. Roads perform better for everyone when they're between 50% and 60% full. DB don't need to provide double the capacity in order for the extra bus lane to be worthwhile.

LollipopJimmy

magicbastarder wrote: »

cheaper, maybe. effective?
you have one lane that carries 8,000 people per hour, and two lanes which each (i think) carry 600 people per hour on one stretch. it makes perfect sense that you would swap the use of the middle lane over to a more efficient mode of transport. sure, it won't suit some people, but the numbers it should benefit will greatly outweigh that.

It's also made it far more dangerous to cycle given the behavior of taxis and buses that I have witnessed in the last few days.

Pretty much every one of my cycles features a stop at the Rolling Donut :pac:

hmmm

My experience is that the Pearse street double bus line has been fantastic for buses. The biggest problem is it clogged up at times with taxis.

It's plainly obvious that with the LUAS coming across the bridge, something had to give - and in a choice between cars versus bus, the loser would be car traffic.

The same as every major city in the world, if you are visiting the city centre for a trip you will have to spend 5 minutes on the Internet researching public transport options or deal with bad traffic.

You are screwed if you have a van or service vehicle, or if you need a plumber in a hurry. Our engineers can't travel to City centre on the bus

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

You are screwed if you have a van or service vehicle, or if you need a plumber in a hurry. Our engineers can't travel to City centre on the bus

There is still a lane for normal traffic.

Your issue should be with people unnecessarily driving into the city centre.

jon1981

Deleted User wrote: »

You are screwed if you have a van or service vehicle, or if you need a plumber in a hurry. Our engineers can't travel to City centre on the bus

Been trying to get hold of our plumber for 3 weeks now ... never known him to be in a hurry :pac::pac::pac:

LXFlyer

The point of the double bus lane is that there is going to be a vast increase in the number of buses using both Quays due to the need to divert routes from College Green.

The double bus lane facilitates buses overtaking other buses that are stopped at bus stops - something that has been ignored heretofore in road design.

It is also a recognition that Bachelor's Walk suffers the biggest delays of any location on the DB network and that action was needed to deal with that.

The bottom line is that the introduction of the trams through the city centre changes the whole dynamic of the traffic and that public transport priority has to come over facilitating private cars (especially those using the city centre as a through route).

Birdie Num Num

Peregrine wrote: »

It's about time we stopped allocating the majority of road space to the least efficient user and whatever is left over to more efficient users of space.


It will improve the journeys of tens of thousands of bus users.

I wouldn't be so sure if that. I sat on a bus that took almost half an hour to get from one end of O'Connell Street to the other. It was a regular mid week morning and there was only buses and taxis using the street. The sooner we have a more expansive and efficient rail and light rail system the better.