Fight Time From 4am-McGregor vs Mayweather**MOD Warning in 1st Post**

walshb

Floyd via KO-TKO

mdwexford wrote: »

So you are basing the fitness of the entire UFC on one person, solid sample size.
.

Yeh, because that is what he is saying/implying! :rolleyes:

Mellor

Draw

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So were you impressed with how he performed physically, against a much older man??

The older athlete had more power, stamina, speed etc

Boxing and MMA are different, obviously... but still, Conor does throw punches for a living... he is predominantly a stand-up fighter. Conor is considered one of the best athletes in MMA...

So should the gulf in athleticism be that wide, between him and 40 year old Floyd??

You spend so much time moving to goal posts you forgot where you leave them half the time. :pac::pac::pac:

You made a similar ridiculous claim about wrestling athleticism in the build up.
But switched to "poor athleticism for boxing" when I called you on it. But here's a silly attempt to flip back :rolleyes:
MMA and boxing are different sports, how do you keep conveniently forgeting that (when it suits).
Usain bolt would struggle in a marathon. Kenenisa Bekele would be extremely weak in the 200m. Claiming either was unathletic would be tremendous nonsense. Yet there you go, again.

Stick Floyd, or any top boxer, in a wrestling match and they would get systematically man handled. Absolutely ragdolled. Does that mean they are physically weak or unathletic? No. This is not complicated, in fact I'm certain you are already aware. But you insist on this semi-trolling act repeatedly. Are we not past that stage? Ditto Conor's power. Im you know the reason Floyd was unflinching was technical in nature not because "Conor has no power".


And I'm preempting a "you are misunderstanding what I'm saying" goal post move. So I'll just highlight;

ThinkProgress wrote:

...the standard of athleticism in the UFC is not that great.

No "...for boxing" implied there. To be really clear, Conor is not conditioned for a 12 rounds boxing match. The old adage goes to be a pro boxer you need to be a semi-pro runner. Conor has never been know for decent stamina. It's not his style, but importantly he's likely not built for it. Other MMA fighters are more suited to it, but still not specifically conditioned for boxing, because they are different sports.
And, is worth pointing out that, a pro might have 10 or 15 fights under his belt before he books a 10 round fight.

Just so I'm not completely having a go. You did admit that you got elements wrong, and that Conor did better than you anticipated. So credit where it's due for that. Floyd,

Sweet Science

Conor on points

Mellor wrote: »

You spend so much time moving to goal posts you forgot where you leave them half the time. :pac::pac::pac:

You made a similar ridiculous claim about wrestling athleticism in the build up.
But switched to "poor athleticism for boxing" when I called you on it. But here's a silly attempt to flip back :rolleyes:
MMA and boxing are different sports, how do you keep conveniently forgeting that (when it suits).
Usain bolt would struggle in a marathon. Kenenisa Bekele would be extremely weak in the 200m. Claiming either was unathletic would be tremendous nonsense. Yet there you go, again.

Stick Floyd, or any top boxer, in a wrestling match and they would get systematically man handled. Absolutely ragdolled. Does that mean they are physically weak or unathletic? No. This is not complicated, in fact I'm certain you are already aware. But you insist on this semi-trolling act repeatedly. Are we not past that stage? Ditto Conor's power. Im you know the reason Floyd was unflinching was technical in nature not because "Conor has no power".


And I'm preempting a "you are misunderstanding what I'm saying" goal post move. So I'll just highlight;


No "...for boxing" implied there. To be really clear, Conor is not conditioned for a 12 rounds boxing match. The old adage goes to be a pro boxer you need to be a semi-pro runner. Conor has never been know for decent stamina. It's not his style, but importantly he's likely not built for it. Other MMA fighters are more suited to it, but still not specifically conditioned for boxing, because they are different sports.
And, is worth pointing out that, a pro might have 10 or 15 fights under his belt before he books a 10 round fight.

Just so I'm not completely having a go. You did admit that you got elements wrong, and that Conor did better than you anticipated. So credit where it's due for that. Floyd,

Its mad the way McGregor is shredded yet gases so easily . Yet DC is fat and can go 5 rounds easy enough . Endurance is a crazy thing.

Frank Bullitt

Floyd via DQ

Sweet Science wrote: »

Next level stuff

https://twitter.com/boxing_memes/status/902268690275729414

He could never not drag his hands back, I was screaming that at the TV.

Sweet Science

Conor on points

@Mellor while you are there

Is it etiquette for someone to tap in BJJ when they know they are in a choke they cant get out of ? Im sure i read it somewhere

Burial.

Floyd via DQ

Sweet Science wrote: »

Its mad the way McGregor is shredded yet gases so easily . Yet DC is fat and can go 5 rounds easy enough . Endurance is a crazy thing.

He gets it from the hormones in the Argentinian cattle that McDonalds use. Completely unfair Jones is the one labelled the drug cheat :pac:

Eyes Down Field

Floyd via DQ

The UFC has massive problems. Drugs, Weight cutting, declining viewership, the lack of stars, etc

Ronda Rousey is dead, Jon Joe's is juiced to the gills

McGregor is all they have left. They'd better give him everything he wants to fight again

mdwexford

ThinkProgress wrote: »

What about that TKO inside 3 rounds prediction of yours??

Fairly badly off the mark tbf...



Do you have a hard** for walshie, or something...??

He's not really being impartial... he is judging Floyd's performance against a higher barometer... simply because Floyd calls himself TBE... and he is in the ATG discussion bracket.

If he were being truly impartial... he would judge Floyd's performance, as if this was just two random boxers going at it. If you judge this fight in that manner... Floyd just scored a very easy win, against a guy who was nowhere in his league!



But no chance of a TKO... so you were WAY off the mark!



The fight was never a starter... Conor had no power... no power = no chance!

You obviously felt, that his punches might carry more weight in those first 3 rounds... so he could get that TKO... but you were wrong! His punches were weak, and completely ineffective!

Conor is a good athlete by UFC standards... but the standard of athleticism in the UFC is not that great. Old man Floyd is a supreme athlete, even at 40... I genuinely felt he could have went another 10 rounds in there easily...

But Conor was fcuked after about 3 or 4 rounds... granted he does come from a different sport. But still, the difference in conditioning was truly shocking!!



But you called the TKO inside 3 rounds... lots of people didn't make THAT call...

Plenty of us, did not believe in Conor's "Touch of Death Left"... :pac:

But fair play... you were a believer!! Good for you!

But you were WAY off!!



You won't catch me saying, "he won't land a punch"... Any chance you want to retract that allegation? Possibly an apology, too? (wouldn't hurt) :P

McGregor told us he was going to run through Floyd... that his head was too small, and his physique was too weak... that we were mad to think Floyd even had a chance!

And some of you guys clearly swallowed some of that Koolaid...

But the opposite happened... Floyd had more power than Conor, and had stamina to burn... at 40 years old... He walked him down, and knocked him out!




Seriously, who gives a sh!t...!? :pac:

Oh, wait... bitter MMA fans, that hate boxing!!

He's a boxing promoter!! The job requires you to be a greasy slimebag...

Have you ever seen some of the hypocrisy that Dana White gets himself tangled up in...?? He easily puts ODH to shame, with his antics!

But again... who really gives a sh!t either way??

walshb wrote: »

Yeh, because that is what he is saying/implying! :rolleyes:

Actually that's exactly what he said.

Stick your stupid smileys. You post nonsense.

walshb

Floyd via KO-TKO

mdwexford wrote: »

Actually that's exactly what he said.

Stick your stupid smileys. You post nonsense.

Oh, you've learned how to quote the correct post..

Well done!

begbysback

Floyd via DQ

Cmon lads - Why cant we just love and accept each other


https://twitter.com/Uber_Pix/status/881199816897953793

mdwexford

walshb wrote: »

Oh, you've learned how to quote the correct post..

Well done!

What are you on about.

Keep posting. Every time it gets more embarrassing for you.

walshb

Floyd via KO-TKO

mdwexford wrote: »

What are you on about.

Keep posting. Every time it gets more embarrassing for you.

Really, I didn't expect you to cop on to what I meant...

We'll leave it there..

mdwexford

walshb wrote: »

Really, I didn't expect you to cop on to what I meant...

We'll leave it there..

You were a joke before the fight.

Then you were even more clueless after the fight.

All round hilarious.

jefferson73

I know little to nothing about boxing and less about MMA.
Trying to reconcile the multiple comments on cardio and superior fitness.
Seems to me to be a stark difference between the performances in some cases being put down to one of the fighters being a supreme athlete and the other struggling after a number of rounds due to his bad cardio training.


Wondering if the fight was subjected to full USADA testing?

Too Tough To Die

Floyd via DQ

jefferson73 wrote: »

I know little to nothing about boxing and less about MMA.
Trying to reconcile the multiple comments on cardio and superior fitness.
Seems to me to be a stark difference between the performances in some cases being put down to one of the fighters being a supreme athlete and the other struggling after a number of rounds due to his bad cardio training.


Wondering if the fight was subjected to full USADA testing?

You'd expect the seasoned professional to more energy efficient within his chosen sport than the novice. Boxers usually start in 4 round fights and work their way up. Also, it's not the first time Conor's cardio has been called into question.

marcus001

jefferson73 wrote: »

I know little to nothing about boxing and less about MMA.
Trying to reconcile the multiple comments on cardio and superior fitness.
Seems to me to be a stark difference between the performances in some cases being put down to one of the fighters being a supreme athlete and the other struggling after a number of rounds due to his bad cardio training.


Wondering if the fight was subjected to full USADA testing?

The muscles used in boxing are different and the key element of aerobic fitness is capillary density, which regardless of how hard you train takes years to build up. It's simply not possible to get into boxing shape in a year.

Floyd will always have superior boxing fitness because he has been using those muscles every day for 30 years.

The fact that he even lasted 10 rounds means he probably has good cardio, not bad, although my major criticism of him is that he was too heavy for that fight. He should have gone in with less muscle mass and he would have lasted longer, potentially lasting 12 rounds and becoming a legend.

marcus001

Sweet Science wrote: »

Its mad the way McGregor is shredded yet gases so easily . Yet DC is fat and can go 5 rounds easy enough . Endurance is a crazy thing.

Muscle uses more energy than fat, it's also heavier to carry, so not actually surprising at all.

wonderfullife

Conor via KO-TKO

Sweet Science wrote: »

Its mad the way McGregor is shredded yet gases so easily . Yet DC is fat and can go 5 rounds easy enough . Endurance is a crazy thing.

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You'd expect the seasoned professional to more energy efficient within his chosen sport than the novice. Boxers usually start in 4 round fights and work their way up. Also, it's not the first time Conor's cardio has been called into question.

I did a much longer post in the MMA forum but I'll try shorten it.

I don't know why you're all saying he "gassed easily" because it bears no basis in fact.

He threw 86 power punches in rounds 1, 2, 3 combined.
He threw 85 power punches in rounds 7 and 8.

His output was phenomenal and increasing up until the 9th round. The stretch of rounds 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 conor threw 270 punches.

It took its toll in round 9 and 10 FOR SURE but people are carrying on like he couldn't hold his hands up after 2 rounds. Round 8 was probably his best round of the entire fight because he arguably won the round when Floyd was properly trying (as opposed to the first 3 rounds Floyd gave him as a Christmas present)! He certainly did enough for Steve Farhood to score round 8 for him, I think Kevin Iole & Steve Bunce had it for him as well.

What ultimately cost Conor was the thing that was always going to cost him - missing so many punches. He only landed just above 20% for the entire fight and that's extremely energy sapping to miss so much.

It was (probably) a mistake not to have better sparring partners so he could get used to missing so much. When Lomachenko offered to help Conor they should have bit his hand off. Yeah he's a southpaw but it'd have helped Conor adjust to hitting fresh air with 80% of his shots.

walshb

Floyd via KO-TKO

I don't think it's as simple as using output of punches to rebut the claim that Conor gassed.

Rds 1,2,3 he looked fresh and fit and relaxed. Composed and controlled and fluid.

Rds 5-10 he may have been busy in offence, and credit to him, but his form, his body, his overall delivery and feeling was one of genuine and real tiring.

Mellor

Draw

Sweet Science wrote: »

@Mellor while you are there

Is it etiquette for someone to tap in BJJ when they know they are in a choke they cant get out of ? Im sure i read it somewhere

Sorry didn't see this yesterday.


With chokes, if you know you can't get out, then its common sense to tap. But there's no etiquette requiring you to do so tbh.
If they can't get free, they'll be asleep in a few seconds, and if they don't go to sleep - then the choke isn't properly in place. In a comp it's perfectly reasonable to use every second to try escape - which means people often run out of time. Some chokes come on very fast and people get caught off guard and go out before they realize.

Of course, if somebody was refusing to tap in training, somebody should probably explain that its just training not the Worlds. Somebody not tapping to a joint lock in training would be getting a kick in the bollox.

marcus001 wrote: »

Muscle uses more energy than fat, it's also heavier to carry, so not actually surprising at all.

Muscle isnt heavier than fat. A kilo is a kilo.
Regardless, Daniel Cormier is 50kg heavier than Conor McGregor. He's carrying more of everything, by all metrics.

marcus001

Mellor wrote: »

Muscle isnt heavier than fat. A kilo is a kilo.
Regardless, Daniel Cormier is 50kg heavier than Conor McGregor. He's carrying more of everything, by all metrics.

It's more dense, which if you're going by how "shredded" they both look is an important point.

DC is an Olympic wrestler and doesn't throw as many punches. Competing in anything at the Olympic level is going to make you fitter. Conor's background is 4-5 years competing at the highest level. DC can and does recuperate during fights by simply smothering his opponent, an option Conor doesn't have.

Lukker-

Mellor wrote: »

Muscle isnt heavier than fat. A kilo is a kilo.
Regardless, Daniel Cormier is 50kg heavier than Conor McGregor. He's carrying more of everything, by all metrics.

It is heavier based on volume and density. Fat takes up four times more volume than muscle of the same weight.

walshb

Floyd via KO-TKO

Lukker- wrote: »

It is heavier based on volume and density. Fat takes up four times more volume than muscle of the same weight.

Mellor never disputed this....

I am sure he knew it anyway.

Lukker-

walshb wrote: »

Mellor never disputed this....

I am sure he knew it anyway.

For sure, but stating that a kilo is a kilo is akin to asking which is heavier a pound of metal or a pound of feathers, of course the weight is the same if the mass is equal

Mellor

Draw

Lukker- wrote: »

For sure, but stating that a kilo is a kilo is akin to asking which is heavier a pound of metal or a pound of feathers, of course the weight is the same if the mass is equal

Right, so saying it's "heavier to carry" makes no sense in this context.
Even if they were the same weight it would be make no sense. 175lbs is 175lbs. But DC is 50lbs bigger. He is carrying around more of everything.

One reason he has better cardio is because his output is a lot lower. A better example would be Cain Velasquez. Heavyweight, ridiculous output. Shame he's always injured.


While we're on the topic. Muscle is not 4 times denser/heavier than fat. It's slightly more, maybe 10%. This kind of pictures, are fake. Carrying around 1 kg of fat is just as hard as 1 kg of muscle, muscle improves cardio ability as it stores glycogen. Do don't see many fat elite runners for good reason.

yourdeadwright

Floyd via DQ

mdwexford wrote: »

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So were you impressed with how he performed physically, against a much older man??

The older athlete had more power, stamina, speed etc

Boxing and MMA are different, obviously... but still, Conor does throw punches for a living... he is predominantly a stand-up fighter. Conor is considered one of the best athletes in MMA...

So should the gulf in athleticism be that wide, between him and 40 year old Floyd??

So you are basing the fitness of the entire UFC on one person, solid sample size.

Conor has a history of gassing and it was a known issue before this fight. He's pretty far from the best athlete in the UFC.

No not at all basing it off one guy,
Just the top end athletes don't take it up there's more money to be made in other sports,
Example Jon Jones the least athletic of 3 brother's , the other two are in the NFL and just bottom tire, hes stated many time they where both far more athletically gifted than him .,

yourdeadwright

Floyd via DQ

Fat and muscle really have no bearing on your gas tank ,
Some lads who go to your local gym 5 days a week are ripped but never go near a treadmill ,and some lads train with there local GGA or football team's 2twice a week and play a game on the weekend and never go near a weight and over eat so carry fat
Who do reckon will have a better gas tank and lunge capacity ,
Looks have no bearing on cardio

Mellor

Draw

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Fat and muscle really have no bearing on your gas tank ,

If an elite marathon runner decided to bulk up and added 20kg of muscle. His elite status would disappear. Ditto for fat.
"Looks fit" is by no means the be all and end all. But muscle and fat mass do have a significant bearing.

walshb

Floyd via KO-TKO

The elite marathon runner would still be elite fit. The heart and lungs are the real indicator. The problem would be that they are now carrying around extra weight that would slow them down and force them to work "harder," draining the tank faster. Still close to the same tank capacity though. I think that is what the poster is getting at.

And it wouldn't take close to 20 kgs to affect the marathon man...a few lbs here and there can change their performances.

Lukker-

walshb wrote: »

The elite marathon runner would still be elite fit. The heart and lungs are the real indicator. The problem would be that they are now carrying around extra weight that would slow them down and force them to work "harder," draining the tank faster. Still close to the same tank capacity though. I think that is what the poster is getting at.

And it wouldn't take close to 20 kgs to affect the marathon man...a few lbs here and there can change their performances.

Extra weight is for sure gonna be harder to carry, but muscle conditioning is going to be a big factor too, fast twitch vs slow twitch.

Lots of fighters tend to 'drown' on the transition between aerobic an anaerobic respiration and vice versa