Louise O Neill on rape culture.

osmiumartist

It's just another SJW conflation buzz word. I had cheese on toast for breakfast. Therefore we have a cheese on toast culture. It doesn't matter one bit if everybody else in the history of mankind hates cheese on toast, the fact I ate one is enough to mean we have a cheese on toast culture.
So literally everything any human has ever done we can start talking about the "problem with the -something- culture". It's just a new way of arranging old words and pretending you can smear campaign.

osmiumartist

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Talk about the dumbing down of a word which used to represent one of the most violent assaults on a person.

We've reached a stage now where people think a tweet is literally (yes, literally) an assault. Try The Guardian opinion pieces for example.

Poor Uncle Tom

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed, though the plan behind using such a loaded term is precisely to engender paranoia, even mild panic. Akin to shouting "Shark!" on a beach. The politic behind such things wants to raise a mild panic to slide in their dafter philosophies underneath.

Sounds like the plot to a particularly badly written episode of Criminal Minds, tbh. But I've no doubt you are right but I think all concerned at this level are just the puppets not the masters.

Bonniedog

This country is surprisingly quite high - 38th - with regards to rape, but well below the African countries that have literally epidemic levels.

Having said that, how reliable are the statistics? It is difficult to believe that countries like Uganda and Sierra Leone are so far below rates in neighbouring countries. Especially SL which is one dangerous kip.

appfry

Theres a rape culture in County Louth.

Oh wait. Thats as random as saying there is a rape culture in Ireland.

conorhal

mzungu wrote: »

I did find it interesting that the UCD case did not get a mention in the documentary. In the interests of making an unbiased documentary (I know, I know, asking for too much), why was there not a need to mention why rape culture hysteria incorrectly labels an entire faculty as perverts when nobody (not even the original author of the college newspaper article) actually saw this Facebook group. That is one of the dangers of the rape culture myth, it ends up targeting people who have nothing to do with the act itself. A bit like the lynchmob mentality of the Salem witch trials given a modern makeover with a touch of reefer madness thrown in there too.

Questioning rape culture hysteria is rapidly becoming a new form of secular heresy for which you can get burned at the stake, a lot of the current so called 'equality' legislation that is being pushed through the Dail smacks of of an updated SJW version of the redundant blasphemy laws we're trying to ditch.

py2006

'Rape Culture' as a phrase reminds me of the phrase 'misogyny'. Two VERY strong in their actual meaning but in recent times have been diluted by deranged feminists in the media. And sadly, I do see a lot of women being influenced by it.

They used to use the word 'sexism' or 'sexist' but they have replaced it with 'misogyny' as if it has the same meaning. Sexism is a trait of a misogynist. Particularly in the last 2 years I am hearing/reading that word a lot. Misogyny always meant the hatred of women. But basically nowadays an unwanted compliment or disagreeing with a feminist labels you as being one. Only if you are a man of course.

To me, there are very few actual misogynists in the world. Those who are have mental issues.

Louis O'Neill and Una Mullally are a disgrace to women, the media and grossly offensive to men.

Labelling yourself a feminist does not should not mean you can get away with misandry.

lawlolawl

osmiumartist wrote: »

We've reached a stage now where people think a tweet is literally (yes, literally) an assault. Try The Guardian opinion pieces for example.

Look at the situation with the Trump pussy grabbing audio.

The utter rage at a silly thing a man said years ago is bewildering to me.

We've gotten that delicate as a society that people actually get hurt by words that aren't even vaguely targeted at them.

Bonniedog

Saw somewhere as well men in US are more likely to be raped than women. Although that is based mainly on the high rate of rape in prisons. Several hundred thousand a year apparently!

No wonder the crime rate is falling!

py2006

Bonniedog wrote: »

Saw somewhere as well men in US are more likely to be raped than women. Although that is based mainly on the high rate of rape in prisons. Several hundred thousand a year apparently!

No wonder the crime rate is falling!

Yep, I read that too. More men are raped in the US than women. However, because it is men doing the rape its a stat dismissed by feminists.

Dr Jakub

Deleted User wrote: »

It is remarkable, and a little depressing, to see how many limit rape culture to the specific act of rape and simply refuse to accept that it is the language of normalisation of rape, of sex and violence, of objectification and degradation.

And asking for people to refrain from such language or behaviour is not insulting to the actual victims of rape. The victims of rape I know would be upset by some crude frat boy type jokes involving sex and violence, upset by being cornered by some fellow pawing them, upset by references to the objectification of women.

So if I look at a girl and say to my friends 'Jesus lads she's some ride' I'm a cultural rapist?

lawlolawl

Dr Jakub wrote: »

So if I look at a girl and say to my friends 'Jesus lads she's some ride' I'm a cultural rapist?

Something, something, something MALE GAZE!

How dare you notice that she is good looking without getting express written permission to do so from her first. You utter man-bastard, you practically ravaged her right there in the middle of the street.

py2006

Dr Jakub wrote: »

So if I look at a girl and say to my friends 'Jesus lads she's some ride' I'm a cultural rapist?

I was never a wolf whistler or a chat up kinda bloke. However, after a couple pints (and way out of hearing distance) I have often muttered to a friend, "wow, the legs on your one" or more recently, "you can actually see her ass". Does that make me part of this rape culture too or am I merely a healthy heterosexual guy distracted by a female displaying what people find attractive?

conorhal

Dr Jakub wrote: »

So if I look at a girl and say to my friends 'Jesus lads she's some ride' I'm a cultural rapist?

Probably, they seem intent on criminalizing being a sexual being.

Dr Jakub

lawlolawl wrote: »

Something, something, something MALE GAZE!

How dare you notice that she is good looking without getting express written permission to do so from her first. You utter man-bastard, you practically ravaged her right there in the middle of the street.

Truly I am sub human. But it's not too late, I've signed up for a consent class. A blue haired anti-sex lesbian feminist will instruct me on how to be a real man.

Bonniedog

py2006 wrote: »

I was never a wolf whistler or a chat up kinda bloke. However, after a couple pints (and way out of hearing distance) I have often muttered to a friend, "wow, the legs on your one" or more recently, "you can actually see her ass". Does that make me part of this rape culture too or am I merely a healthy heterosexual guy distracted by a female displaying what people find attractive?

You're up there with Stalin and Hitler if you ask me

py2006

Bonniedog wrote: »

You're up there with Stalin and Hitler if you ask me

Well, I have achieved all I can...

ash23

ash23 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd call it rape culture here but there is definitely a need for talk about consent and what is and is not acceptable behaviour when dealing with people you are sexually interested in.

I'm sure I'm not the only woman who has had to physically push a man away from me. Nor the only one to be grabbed on the arse or boob by a randomer in a pub/club. It was a common enough occurrence when I was mid teens up to my early twenties. I've felt threatened when walking home late by groups of men catcalling. I've had a man wait for me after work and try to convince me that I really needed to get into his car. An offer of a lift is fine but a "no thank you" should be accepted as opposed to him driving along side the path until I actually threatened to call the guards. Then I was called a f**king b*tch.
I've had men flash their penis at me in the pub "for a laugh". Dick pics sent unsolicited and unwanted.
I've had older men leer at me and make sexual comments about me. I worked in pubs when younger so probably was more likely to encounter that behaviour but this stuff happened both in work and out.

My 13 year old daughter was at a teen disco where she was grabbed by the arse a couple of times. One poor girl there was left traumatised when a group of boys lifted her dress and flashed her underwear to the entire crowd.

I am a woman. And I only have a daughter. So my experience is from a woman's perspective. I am aware that women can behave in a similar way so I'm not suggesting that it's just men who are the problem.
But I know I've raised my child to know she should never lay a hand on a person without their consent. She should never try to intimidate or humiliate someone to show off and I think that is lacking somewhat in society as there is still a definite prevalence of that behaviour in younger people imo.

No you didn't experience any of that. The is no rape culture in Ireland. Or flashing ones penis is not part of rape culture. Or something about lots of actual rape in Africa so what you experienced is fine and it apparently upsets people to suggest that what you experienced is classic rape culture. It's ironic that the strongest language on this thread comes from those who deny that stuff exists in Ireland, or say because it is not universal it means it can't even be talked about and seem to get quite angry about it.

Incidentally, I've seen exactly what you've experienced, and female friends of mine have gone through the same, and worse.

osmiumartist

py2006 wrote: »

Yep, I read that too. More men are raped in the US than women. However, because it is men doing the rape its a stat dismissed by feminists.

Same story with murder victims. The vast majority are men murdered by men, but apparently we have a "culture" of violence towards women.

osmiumartist

Deleted User wrote: »

It's ironic that the strongest language on this thread comes from those who deny that stuff exists in Ireland, or say because it is not universal it means it can't even be talked about and seem to get quite angry about it.

Nah, most of the bluster is from those who take a few anecdotes and pretend it's the norm across the country, which is what it would have to be to be defined as a "culture". There would also have to be a "rape" involved, which none of these anecdotes have.
Rape? No.
Culture? No.
That's pretty much it.

py2006

osmiumartist wrote: »

Same story with murder victims. The vast majority are men murdered by men, but apparently we have a "culture" of violence towards women.

Actually, and I could be wrong here, I think the prison rape situation in the US is actually were the term, 'Rape Culture' comes from.

Dr Jakub

osmiumartist wrote: »

Same story with murder victims. The vast majority are men murdered by men, but apparently we have a "culture" of violence towards women.

We have a murder culture in this country. However you don't have to commit murder to be part of the problem. All men are murderers.

ash23

osmiumartist wrote: »

Nah, most of the bluster is from those who take a few anecdotes and pretend it's the norm across the country, which is what it would have to be to be defined as a "culture". There would also have to be a "rape" involved, which none of these anecdotes have.
Rape? No.
Culture? No.
That's pretty much it.

To be fair what I've described is pretty common in varying degrees. The intimidating, unwanted groping and relentless pursuing or not taking no as an answer is fairly common on a night out for women.
Last night I was out with two female friends and we ended up leaving a pub because some guy was pestering us despite us telling him we were all in relationships.
The time before that I was with my sisters and one had her bum grabbed. In fact it's more rare that nothing happens. Less and less as we get older and therefore I assume the mentality of grabbing and harassing women fades as these men mature but hearing my daughter discuss it is horrible
What do I tell her? That it's lad culture? Locker room talk/action.
Or do I teach her that it's unacceptable and disrespectful and she shouldn't tolerate it. But then she is called a man hating feminist etc so what do we do about this behaviour?

Unearthly

First time I've ever heard of rape culture and its definition.

Has me thinking though. So say if I'm out and about, and a woman I find attractive touches me on arm in a flirting manner, does the fact that I find her attractive count as consent and therefore I wasn't culturally raped?

Or the opposite. Some woman who I don't fancy touches me on arm. Was i culturally raped?

Or am I the cultural rapist? They may have just been friendly with no intention of flirting and I culturally raped them by even thinking of something more.

Actually I know the Answer, it's all bollocks, feck off with your 'rape culture'

ligerdub

Deleted User wrote: »

No you didn't experience any of that. The is no rape culture in Ireland. Or flashing ones penis is not part of rape culture. Or something about lots of actual rape in Africa so what you experienced is fine and it apparently upsets people to suggest that what you experienced is classic rape culture. It's ironic that the strongest language on this thread comes from those who deny that stuff exists in Ireland, or say because it is not universal it means it can't even be talked about and seem to get quite angry about it.

Incidentally, I've seen exactly what you've experienced, and female friends of mine have gone through the same, and worse.

Yet you offered up some old comments...I.e. words, by an English TV presenter, in England, to support your arguments.

Bonniedog

ash23 wrote: »

To be fair what I've described is pretty common in varying degrees. The intimidating, unwanted groping and relentless pursuing or not taking no as an answer is fairly common on a night out for women.
Last night I was out with two female friends and we ended up leaving a pub because some guy was pestering us despite us telling him we were all in relationships.
The time before that I was with my sisters and one had her bum grabbed. In fact it's more rare that nothing happens. Less and less as we get older and therefore I assume the mentality of grabbing and harassing women fades as these men mature but hearing my daughter discuss it is horrible
What do I tell her? That it's lad culture? Locker room talk/action.
Or do I teach her that it's unacceptable and disrespectful and she shouldn't tolerate it. But then she is called a man hating feminist etc so what do we do about this behaviour?

No-one should have to put up with un-solicited attention, physical or otherwise, from anyone.

Tell your daughter to tell such people to fk off. And ring cops. It is assault.

Topcat32

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Think rape culture is different to rape.

I mean, rape is rape. Rape culture is the whole depiction or representation of women in a crude or vulgar way as being simply sexual objects, hence from language like "I'd smash her back door in" to dick pics to the inability of some men to understand the word "no" (I don't mean in the context of sex, but even in bars or clubs where you see fellows after a few drinks going for the whining or abusive approach once a woman has made it clear she's not interested).

So by that logic drug culture to you means people talking about drugs or joking that somebody must be on drugs rather than people actually taking drugs?

machiavellianme

I thought this would be a thread about how Louise O'Neill rapes "culture" with her turgid drivel.
To think that Ireland once boasted some excellent journalists and have a phenomenal record for literature, she really knows how to defile our reputation with her assault of the written word.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

No you didn't experience any of that. The is no rape culture in Ireland.

Jesus. You take the biscuit, hell, you take the whole tin. None of that was "rape". Not even close. Unpleasant? Certainly. Unwanted? Assuredly. Crass and ignorant? Most definitely. Not rape though.

Or flashing ones penis is not part of rape culture. Or something about lots of actual rape in Africa so what you experienced is fine and it apparently upsets people to suggest that what you experienced is classic rape culture.

"Classic rape culture" as laid down by scary haired liberal arts lecturers in US campuses, but a culture that encourages rape? Get off the stage. Every hour of every day in Ireland folks are playing video games with shooting and killing, the TV is chock full of all sorts of murder and mayhem and a huge percentage are watching porn on the regular too. Funny that we don't live in a war zone culture with added sexy time. Or maybe we do. No doubt someone somewhere is getting a major attack of the Feelz over all this "murder culture".

The average family car of today is capable of going nearly twice the speed limit, the telly and the interwebs is chock full of guys driving like loons, there's motor racing as a regular fixture on the TV, young men and women like to buy bits that make their cars go faster and louder and more aggressive. Do you know people who speed or drive dangerously? No doubt you do and you've probably crept over the limit yourself(if your high horse is capable of course). Do people die on the roads? They most certainly do and it's a tragedy and sometimes a scandal. Can we as a society cut down on such tragedies? Yes and we do, but if anyone was to suggest we live in a "motor racing/death on the roads culture" they'd be sent to a special ward for the terminally bewildered. And so it is for me this "rape culture" stuff.

It's ironic that the strongest language on this thread comes from those who deny that stuff exists in Ireland, or say because it is not universal it means it can't even be talked about and seem to get quite angry about it.

You get freaked out by someone using the word "retarded" and have a mind shutdown.

ash23 wrote:

What do I tell her? That it's lad culture? Locker room talk/action

That it's "dickhead culture"? I really don't know how people get to a point where they can't see that dickheads exist as a minority of people in any society, but that this doesn't mean that either society or a gender is a dickhead as a default.

Or do I teach her that it's unacceptable and disrespectful and she shouldn't tolerate it.

Of course she shouldn't tolerate dickheads of any stripe. No need to go full on paranoid about same and generally label one group as dickheads eagerly looking for confirmation biases. That's usually the point where accusations of "man hating feminist" tends to start.

ligerdub

ash23 wrote: »

To be fair what I've described is pretty common in varying degrees. The intimidating, unwanted groping and relentless pursuing or not taking no as an answer is fairly common on a night out for women.
Last night I was out with two female friends and we ended up leaving a pub because some guy was pestering us despite us telling him we were all in relationships.
The time before that I was with my sisters and one had her bum grabbed. In fact it's more rare that nothing happens. Less and less as we get older and therefore I assume the mentality of grabbing and harassing women fades as these men mature but hearing my daughter discuss it is horrible
What do I tell her? That it's lad culture? Locker room talk/action.
Or do I teach her that it's unacceptable and disrespectful and she shouldn't tolerate it. But then she is called a man hating feminist etc so what do we do about this behaviour?

You see, although anecdotal, I can at least see the logic of this, and why it could be a problem. Completely random sexual touches would fall under the banner of a problem if it's prevalent. This is entirely different to the other nonsense spouted by those who espouse rape culture in this thread. If anything the Helen Lovejoy types in that camp are doing more harm than good to more serious arguments which suggest there could be an acceptance of inappropriate behaviour of a sexual nature.

I'm a man and I've had my fair share of arse pinches in my direction. It happens to everyone. I can see why women would find this a problem right enough, but there's no lad in the country who would turn around to his mates and say "lads, I've had enough of women pinching my arse in here, I'm outta here!". The last comment is tongue in cheek, don't hang me for it.