Louise O Neill on rape culture.

ligerdub

Deleted User wrote:

Was Richard Keys not caught saying he'd smash it, and some co commentator or pundit would be found hanging off the back of some woman?

He did yeah. So what. It's not pretty but it's hardly depicting a rape.

mzungu

Deleted User wrote: »

It is interesting that you flatly refuse to accept that it exists here.

I do not believe that rape has been normalised and is considered acceptable by Irish society. I'm surprised that you, or anybody, does. But horses for courses.

Across many other countries they are willing to examine the prevalence of rape culture. Such as in the UK...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sites-like-uni-lad-only-act-to-support-our-everyday-rape-culture-8360109.html

Author is Laura Bates, who already sings from the hymn sheet of rape culture mantra...writes an article stating that the UK has a rape culture? I'm not shocked. Hardly objective is it? A fair amount of ideological bias at play there. It's a bit like linking me to a pro-IRA article in An Phoblacht and calling it objective :pac:

We'll just have to disagree on your "nope, not in Ireland, doesn't exist here" take.

And we'll just have to disagree on your "yes, absolutely in Ireland, I know of loads" take.

AnGaelach

Deleted User wrote:

I think there is a world of difference between saying a person, male or female, is attractive, and saying you'd leave them bleeding or split them or smash their flaps in. I think the latter is crude and vulgar, I don't think the former is crude or vulgar, not sure how you conflate the two.

Because it is people with your mentality who want to moan about sexualizing women in the media, but then immediately pass remarks about men without giving a seconds thought to it. It's absolutely ridiculous to conflate someone saying something in a pass remark with saying we have a "culture of rape".

You're just being whiny and looking for the next big thing to be part of.

AnGaelach

py2006 wrote: »

I no longer engage in one night stands for fear of being accused of rape (if SHE regrets it).

I've never engaged in one night stands but that's not my choice anyway:(

JupiterKid

No, we do not have a rape culture in Ireland. This person is just a complete misandrist. She probably thinks that all men are potential rapists.

To suggest that there is a rape culture in Ireland is hugely insulting to the actual victims of rape.

me_right_one

JupiterKid wrote: »

No, we do not have a rape culture in Ireland. This person is just a complete misandrist. She probably thinks that all men are potential rapists.

To suggest that there is a rape culture in Ireland is hugely insulting to the actual victims of rape.

AND to the men of Ireland! Lets not fool ourselves here, she is blaming every one of us for contributing to this mythological "rape culture". I'm sorry, but that actually IS something worth getting offended about.

The Wolverine

py2006 wrote: »

If things continue as they are, in a few years, men will be accused of all sorts for merely looking at a woman.

The worst part being if it did happen it would be detrimental and against the common sense and wishes of the vast vast majority of right minded men and WOMEN all because a small group of mentally ill (and no I'm not being smart anyone that classes vulger language as a "rape culture" like some do has issues IMO) individuals class men saying "I'd smash it" as a rape culture. Vulgar to some? Yes I can see it, but a "rape culture"? **** off

Or as a female friend once said "Jesus I'd let him split me in two" the dirty rape minded bitch :pac:

Dr Jakub

py2006 wrote: »

I no longer engage in one night stands for fear of being accused of rape (if SHE regrets it).

If things continue as they are, in a few years, men will be accused of all sorts for merely looking at a woman.

Not getting your solicitor to draw up a watertight consent form. Brah, do you even 2016?

I'm just home from the pub. How come I saw no rapes? I saw adult men and women getting drunk and hanging out. Saw some get rejected and saw some start shifting. Where's the rape culture? At one stage me and my friend were admiring a couple of girls. I guess we verbally raped them? What's with the anti-sex freaks who promote this rape culture hysteria?

Dr Jakub

Deleted User wrote: »

It is interesting that you flatly refuse to accept that it exists here.

Across many other countries they are willing to examine the prevalence of rape culture. Such as in the UK...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sites-like-uni-lad-only-act-to-support-our-everyday-rape-culture-8360109.html

We'll just have to disagree on your "nope, not in Ireland, doesn't exist here" take.

Why don't you go live in India, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, The Congo etc and then come back and tell us we have a rape culture?

Grayson

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Not getting your solicitor to draw up a watertight consent form. Brah, do you even 2016?

I'm just home from the pub. How come I saw no rapes? I saw adult men and women getting drunk and hanging out. Saw some get rejected and saw some start shifting. Where's the rape culture? At one stage me and my friend were admiring a couple of girls. I guess we verbally raped them? What's with the anti-sex freaks who promote this rape culture hysteria?

There's the conclusive truth. I guess nothing ever happens unless you see it.

Dr Jakub

Grayson wrote: »

There's the conclusive truth. I guess nothing ever happens unless you see it.

Rapes happen. Normal men don't accept collective guilt for the actions of a few scumbags.

Skyfarm

timmy880 wrote: »

If the aim was to get through to young men and have them at least think about the discussion, then having the doc on a Champions League night was really awful scheduling by RTE....

What were they thinking?

They were thinking target audience.. hands down they won

FAILSAFE 00

More like Frape culture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f2vFJuo6rA

Shemale

Shemale wrote: »

Talk is talk and rape culture is rape culture, it doesn't exist in Ireland.

ligerdub wrote: »

"I'd smash her backdoors in" might well be crude or vulgar but it has nothing to do with rape.

JupiterKid wrote: »

To suggest that there is a rape culture in Ireland is hugely insulting to the actual victims of rape.

It is remarkable, and a little depressing, to see how many limit rape culture to the specific act of rape and simply refuse to accept that it is the language of normalisation of rape, of sex and violence, of objectification and degradation.

And asking for people to refrain from such language or behaviour is not insulting to the actual victims of rape. The victims of rape I know would be upset by some crude frat boy type jokes involving sex and violence, upset by being cornered by some fellow pawing them, upset by references to the objectification of women.

Grayson

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Rapes happen. Normal men don't accept collective guilt for the actions of a few scumbags.

has anyone here asked you to?

Stop being triggered.

ligerdub

Wibbs wrote:

I’m obviously not the only person who cringes when they see impressive women with degrees in biochemistry or medieval history or international languages, being reduced to a ‘grand girl, altogether’.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote:

Hehehehe....

Deleted User wrote:

It is remarkable, and a little depressing, to see how many limit rape culture to the specific act of rape and simply refuse to accept that it is the language of normalisation of rape, of sex and violence, of objectification and degradation.

You're just wrong, absolutely wrong.

me_right_one

This thread needs a yes/no poll. Something along the lines of:

1) Should the definition of "rape culture" include the act of raping?:rolleyes:
2) Does a "rape culture" exist in Ireland?
3) Are there some immature, promiscuous, and loutish attitudes towards both women and men in Ireland?
4) Should loutish people automatically be treated as rapists?

OP, its up to you!

listermint

This thread is serious lols.

I wonder what next big term people with little time on their hands and one of the safest countries on the earth to live in will latch onto.

These people haven't a clue about true hardship pain or suffering.

Twitter gives them a voice.

Their brains are there shame.

I'm waiting for the next new term to come about with earnest.

Wibbs

Dick phelan wrote: »

Saying a rape culture can exist without rape is honestly one of the dumbest things i'v ever read on boards,

Oh stick around Sir...

Deleted User wrote: »

It is remarkable, and a little depressing, to see how many limit rape culture to the specific act of rape and simply refuse to accept that it is the language of normalisation of rape, of sex and violence, of objectification and degradation.

For christ's sake, it's proponents of this nonsense like you that conflate the two, not the culture at large. Never mind the eye rolling daftness of thinking Irish culture normalises rape and violent sex. What planet are you living on? It seems to be some planet where the natives have constantly exposed nerves with a large side order of paranoia. On this planet in this culture rapists are utterly reviled to the degree that they even have to be kept separate from the general prison population or they will be hunted down and injured or even killed.

One example trotted out by the rape hysterics was that case in Kerry where a bunch of morons shook the hand of a convicted rapist. Rape culture right there… Only sorry, no, more like small town parish clannishness. When that story broke the overwhelming response from Irish people across the board was public revulsion and vilification of those muppets and a groundswell of support for the victim. Yep, must be a "rape culture" alright.

Then there was the UCD male students hysteria. Rape culture again. With the subject of the thread blurting out deep screams at the sheer pain of it all. Except it never happened. It was the near definition of hysterics. Oh and no retraction about it either. Indeed some idiots suggested that there was no smoke without fire y'know. Oh yes. Rapists everywhere.

One would almost come to the conclusion that these types want rape culture to exist and are crestfallen when it's shown not to.

The victims of rape I know would be upset by some crude frat boy type jokes involving sex and violence, upset by being cornered by some fellow pawing them, upset by references to the objectification of women.

Right so, let's all go back to Victorian attitudes and cosset all women as little children, sub adults who become upset at the slightest "crudity" and loud noises. More tea vicar? That certainly seems to be a thick thread in current "liberal feminism". It sees women, all women as perpetual victims of nasty uncouth dangerous men. The poor dears. Bless.

listermint wrote:

I wonder what next big term people with little time on their hands and one of the safest countries on the earth to live in will latch onto.

I've long thought that this kind of paranoia and hysteria is partly because we live in such a safe and cosseted society. That the natural human nature judging threats mechanism is ramped up in some because it rarely gets stimulated by actual threat, so overreacts to perceived threats and is egged on by the community echo chamber they usually inhabit. An allergy of the psyche as it were.

Fleawuss

PoorAuldDivil wrote: »

A cousin of mine (a very quiet, passive young man) was the subject of a rape complaint. His ex-girlfriend (who he had broken up with the week before) was found roughed up in a local park, went to Guards and said that he had beat her and raped her. He was naturally brought in for questioning, and found himself absolutely baffled at what he was accused of. Luckily, the Gardai saw through the story easily and she quickly confessed.........fell on the way home from a night out, rang her friends, thought she'd get one over on him. Nothing ever happened to her for this, and his name was dragged through the mud. This happened in a town in Munster in 2014.


The fact that O'Neill and her type would have seen my cousin thrown in Cork Gaol at the unquestioned word of a woman leaves me extremely weary of anything these 'feminists' pontificate.

Taking this at face value he needs to lodge a formal complaint.

Poor Uncle Tom

SB_Part2 wrote: »

People who don't think there's a rape culture in Ireland are completely deluded.

Naw m8, we have a licorice allsorts culture here, we do so we do....

Talk about the dumbing down of a word which used to represent one of the most violent assaults on a person.

Wibbs

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Talk about the dumbing down of a word which used to represent one of the most violent assaults on a person.

Indeed, though the plan behind using such a loaded term is precisely to engender paranoia, even mild panic. Akin to shouting "Shark!" on a beach. The politic behind such things wants to raise a mild panic to slide in their dafter philosophies underneath.

Omackeral

Deleted User wrote: »

I have already, men using graphic and violent language to describe what they would do, men not being able to take no, men sending dick pics to women I know with no invitation, that to me is rape culture. It is using the violence and degradation that underpins rape in more commonplace situations, in conversation, in texts, in the pub etc. It's like the Sky commentators looking at the female ref and saying they'd smash it, it's degrading and insulting. That's rape culture.

That's called being a dickhead. It's existed long before this bullsh*t Americanised term rape culture ever did the rounds.

Omackeral

listermint wrote: »

This thread is serious lols.

I wonder what next big term people with little time on their hands and one of the safest countries on the earth to live in will latch onto.

These people haven't a clue about true hardship pain or suffering.

Twitter gives them a voice.

Their brains are there shame.

I'm waiting for the next new term to come about with earnest.

Black Lives Matter you animal. All those Gardai shooting innocent people of colour. Shame on you.

eviltwin

I don't like the phrase rape culture because it implies people - namely men lets be honest - think rape, sexual assault, derogatory comments etc is okay and that's not my experience with the men in my life. Quite the opposite. It's also ignoring the impact of sexual abuse on males which is substantial and often ignored.

However I do think we have a problem with boundaries particularly younger people who have grown up with sex and porn being so accessible from such a young age. I work with sex abuse survivors and what's shocking and scary is how much abuse is child on child and how blase they are about it. It's normal now for teens, young teens, to send nude photos of themselves to others and if that ends up being shown around they shrug their shoulders. They either don't see it as a violation or feel they can't speak out about it. The ones doing the sharing don't even see an issue with it. And that's before you even get to other more serious issues.

I do think we are going to see a massive problem in the future with sexual dysfunction and issues around consent because it's already a problem. I'm not a prude and accept sexual exploration is going to happen with young people but my concern as someone dealing with the fall out and as a parent is that sex is now no longer private, there is no intimacy, no emotion. It's been reduced to a purely physical act and that is something we have got to talk about.

ash23

I'm not sure I'd call it rape culture here but there is definitely a need for talk about consent and what is and is not acceptable behaviour when dealing with people you are sexually interested in.

I'm sure I'm not the only woman who has had to physically push a man away from me. Nor the only one to be grabbed on the arse or boob by a randomer in a pub/club. It was a common enough occurrence when I was mid teens up to my early twenties. I've felt threatened when walking home late by groups of men catcalling. I've had a man wait for me after work and try to convince me that I really needed to get into his car. An offer of a lift is fine but a "no thank you" should be accepted as opposed to him driving along side the path until I actually threatened to call the guards. Then I was called a f**king b*tch.
I've had men flash their penis at me in the pub "for a laugh". Dick pics sent unsolicited and unwanted.
I've had older men leer at me and make sexual comments about me. I worked in pubs when younger so probably was more likely to encounter that behaviour but this stuff happened both in work and out.

My 13 year old daughter was at a teen disco where she was grabbed by the arse a couple of times. One poor girl there was left traumatised when a group of boys lifted her dress and flashed her underwear to the entire crowd.


I am a woman. And I only have a daughter. So my experience is from a woman's perspective. I am aware that women can behave in a similar way so I'm not suggesting that it's just men who are the problem.
But I know I've raised my child to know she should never lay a hand on a person without their consent. She should never try to intimidate or humiliate someone to show off and I think that is lacking somewhat in society as there is still a definite prevalence of that behaviour in younger people imo.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I think some people like to blame others for their own demons and issues.

O'Neill has dealt with some serious issues in her life, which she has written and spoken about publicly, and I think she blames men and society in general for a lot of it.

I don't mind that if it helps but when people get access to the national papers and airwaves it becomes a problem.

Opinions can become facts very quickly in today's media.

Wibbs

eviltwin wrote: »

It's normal now for teens, young teens, to send nude photos of themselves to others and if that ends up being shown around they shrug their shoulders. They either don't see it as a violation or feel they can't speak out about it. The ones doing the sharing don't even see an issue with it.

Crazy though this may sound, but maybe this is a glimpse into a quite different future regarding the mores around adolescent sharing of this nature? I mean think about it, we'd see a selfie of a couple of lads on holidays in Greece or wherever, stripped to the waste in swimming togs and not blink at it. A century ago and we'd likely have an attack of the vapours in shock and would likely expire altogether if we saw Facebook pics of self uploaded bikini pics. Back then we'd also have likely decided such photos as indicative of an overly sexually permissive society that would increase the risks of rape and assault(and one could argue that rape and sexual assault has dropped since the less permissive societies). No doubt some born again types in Alabama still think that. But society adapted. I suspect it'll adapt again. It'll have to.

my concern as someone dealing with the fall out and as a parent is that it's now no longer private and that is something we have got to talk about.

Certainly we have to have that dialogue, but I'd further suggest the privacy pre interweb people grew up with is dead, or is certainly on life support with the undertaker booked. Privacy itself is quite a "new" and it seems short lived trend. It's actually rather odd a time in human culture where privacy is an expectation. In hunter gatherer societies it's an alien concept and that continued on after we settled down to farm all those millennia ago. People tended to live eat and sleep all in one non private group. Even the very wealthy who could afford privacy rarely enough had it and kings and queens lived extremely public lives.

I would say that we're at the cusp of new definitions of privacy and personal sharing. At such crossover points culture can tend to lurch towards one extreme or other as it finds the way forward. It's the young who have the onerous task of writing the new rules, the old pre-interweb people just don't get it for the most part.

eviltwin

Wibbs all of that is fine for adults who can decide for themselves what level of privacy they want. I'm talking about children and teens because they are not at the level of emotional maturity to make those decisions or understand their impact. When I was a teenager parents worried about kids having sex, I worry that my child will have sex and then find the video of it up online. Once that's there it's there forever. You're not thinking at 13, 14 of how the choices you make today will impact you in ten or twenty years. Or how things forced on you by someone else will affect you. Victimhood is just one aspect, I don't want my kids being the ones who out of ignorance end up harming another person.

mzungu

Wibbs wrote: »

Then there was the UCD male students hysteria. Rape culture again. With the subject of the thread blurting out deep screams at the sheer pain of it all. Except it never happened. It was the near definition of hysterics. Oh and no retraction about it either. Indeed some idiots suggested that there was no smoke without fire y'know. Oh yes. Rapists everywhere.

One would almost come to the conclusion that these types want rape culture to exist and are crestfallen when it's shown not to.

I did find it interesting that the UCD case did not get a mention in the documentary. In the interests of making an unbiased documentary (I know, I know, asking for too much), why was there not a need to mention why rape culture hysteria incorrectly labels an entire faculty as perverts when nobody (not even the original author of the college newspaper article) actually saw this Facebook group. That is one of the dangers of the rape culture myth, it ends up targeting people who have nothing to do with the act itself. A bit like the lynchmob mentality of the Salem witch trials given a modern makeover with a touch of reefer madness thrown in there too.