Louise O Neill on rape culture.

ligerdub

Pretty sure Heath was a true one.

Widdershins

It's been debated whether the LON type of extreme anti white male mentality is really that common outside of her bubble and how much influence she could have on younger girls. I've just seen a Twitter post by a Teen Vogue columnist, Lara Witt. It says '' Also white people are evil. Whiteness is evil.''

mzungu

please helpThank YOU wrote:

The list of people false accused of rape and other crimes is Staggering here is a small sample list of people who have been wrong by this rape culture Louis O Neill talks about. Cliff Ricard, Michael Le Vell ,Lord Leon Brittan, Jim Davidson, Ched Evans, Prime Minister Sir, Edward Heath, Nigel Evans MP, Lord Bramell , William Roache, Freddie Starr, DJ Neil Fox,. and for some Men its to much like Jay Cheshire hanged himself from a tree he could not cope /distraught over false rape accusations this Man is Dead .

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

You are 100 per cent right what you say about Saville and the overzealous police
Cliff Ricard is Suing the BBC/Police. Cliff Ricard made a very good point if he was not Rich how does say working Man/Women defend them selves ?. like say example a bricklayer he would not have the money to clear his/her name in the courts our pay for the best Solicitors/Barrister like the police/Garda have against the Innocent Man/Women.

Not in all those cases, but with Cliff Richard the whole affair was like a circus. It had little to do with rape culture, and more to do with knee jerk reactions. The BBC were waiting with a camera crew the day his house was searched. Somebody wanted to be seen doing something. Was he guilty? Was he innocent? At this stage does it matter? Mud sticks. The other people mentioned above I am not familiar with their cases so I won't comment on those. Obviously, when allegations are made the police need to investigate, but they could have done without making a big drama out of it.

mzungu

Widdershins wrote: »

It's been debated whether the LON type of extreme anti white male mentality is really that common outside of her bubble and how much influence she could have on younger girls. I've just seen a Twitter post by a Teen Vogue columnist, Lara Witt. It says '' Also white people are evil. Whiteness is evil.''

That kind of stuff is commonplace on Twitter. Probably trying to get attention no doubt.

gormdubhgorm

I am amazed at the amount of posts on this thread.
Louise O'Neill must be delighted (whoever she is).

All I can think of now is the Nirvana song 'Rape me'.
I think we sang an Irish version of it in the Gaeltacht called 'tóg mé' as young fellas in a song competition, we didn't win it.

I blame Louise!

TheDavester

mzungu wrote: »

That kind of stuff is commonplace on Twitter. Probably trying to get attention no doubt.

Since she didn't bother going to the March/protest on International Woman's day after she was "threatening to burn to the place down" in the days before it happened, I cant believe that she believes half the stuff she comes out with (e.g. hatred of Its cold outside song) ...I think its an attempt by her for some attention and pushing her career in the media by saying "controversial" and "edgy" things, Kinda like Katie Hopkins and others as it will raise eyebrows

Outlaw Pete

TheDavester wrote: »

Since she didn't bother going to the March/protest on International Woman's day after she was "threatening to burn to the place down" in the days before it happened, I cant believe that she believes half the stuff she comes out with (e.g. hatred of Its cold outside song) ...I think its an attempt by her for some attention and pushing her career in the media by saying "controversial" and "edgy" things, Kinda like Katie Hopkins and others as it will raise eyebrows

Agreed but at least Katie Hopkins doesn't avoid debate like LON. Not a chance Louise would go on TLLS (for example) and debate with people who vehemently disagree with her . In fact she campaigned for Hopkins to be removed from TLLS as a guest and so disagree with her as I might, at least she walks her walk to a far greater degree than LON ever does, or ever will.

But I do agree that much of what she says seems designed to ruffle feathers rather than anything that she believes too deeply. Hence her blocking /muting of anyone that dares to say they like so much as a different breakfast cereal to her. The cynic in me might ponder whether or not her going after Casey Affleck in the press and Twitter recently might have been her attempting to get acquainted with an American feminist audience, what with the film adaption of her first book, Only Ever Yours, due to be released at some stage next year.

RabbleRouser2k

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Agreed but at least Katie Hopkins doesn't avoid debate like LON. Not a chance Louise would go on TLLS (for example) and debate with people who vehemently disagree with her . In fact she campaigned for Hopkins to be removed from TLLS as a guest and so disagree with her as I might, at least she walks her walk to a far greater degree than LON ever does, or ever will.

But I do agree that much of what she says seems designed to ruffle feathers rather than anything that she believes too deeply. Hence her blocking /muting of anyone that dares to say they like so much as a different breakfast cereal to her. The cynic in me might ponder whether or not her going after Casey Affleck in the press and Twitter recently might have been her attempting to get acquainted with an American feminist audience, what with the film adaption of her first book, Only Ever Yours, due to be released at some stage next year.

Oh definitely-she would be slaughtered if she did-not literally, but verbally. And she won't risk her 'brand' doing that-it's why she went on Tommy Tiernan, where he didn't know who she was, to peddle her wares. She thought she'd have it easy-but even without all the prep, he was still able to challenge her immensely. Imagine someone more prepped for her.

It's possible-I mean, from a twitter/ facebook standpoint, she could be trying to do just that.
But it was a very lacklustre attempt to do so if she was. Again, she had not done her research-some very mediocre writing on the subject too.

As far as the film being out next year-yeah, I would hesitate to even say that. At present, it has no director, no screenplay, no screenplay writer (rarely does a writer adapt their own work to screen-if they do, they usually have much experience doing so) no actors, and many other things.
Also, with the adaptation of The Handmaiden's tale coming to Hulu-it may lead to the adaptation not happening.

mzungu

TheDavester wrote: »

Since she didn't bother going to the March/protest on International Woman's day after she was "threatening to burn to the place down" in the days before it happened, I cant believe that she believes half the stuff she comes out with (e.g. hatred of Its cold outside song) ...I think its an attempt by her for some attention and pushing her career in the media by saying "controversial" and "edgy" things, Kinda like Katie Hopkins and others as it will raise eyebrows

I think it was somebody else from a US magazine that said it going by Widdershins post above. But it is a fairly general statement (for Twitter anyways) among that type of cohort.

drugstore cowboy

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Oh definitely-she would be slaughtered if she did-not literally, but verbally. And she won't risk her 'brand' doing that-it's why she went on Tommy Tiernan, where he didn't know who she was, to peddle her wares. She thought she'd have it easy-but even without all the prep, he was still able to challenge her immensely. Imagine someone more prepped for her.

It's possible-I mean, from a twitter/ facebook standpoint, she could be trying to do just that.
But it was a very lacklustre attempt to do so if she was. Again, she had not done her research-some very mediocre writing on the subject too.

As far as the film being out next year-yeah, I would hesitate to even say that. At present, it has no director, no screenplay, no screenplay writer (rarely does a writer adapt their own work to screen-if they do, they usually have much experience doing so) no actors, and many other things.
Also, with the adaptation of The Handmaiden's tale coming to Hulu-it may lead to the adaptation not happening.

Am I right in thinking Una Mulally pulled out of an abortion debate that was due to take place on TLLS? She was being called a coward and lacking the ability to win the debate by the guy who was due on the show to counter her arguments.

I think Una recently moved on to the lack of female festival headliners in Ireland.

TheDavester

Una pulled out over a talk about has political correctness gone too far, im guessing she pulled out as she'd be slaughtered if she went against someone who disagreed with her (Ian Docherty then lost the plot - so she came out the winner )

Wombatman

Doting father and solid GAA club man......... wot?????

Outlaw Pete

Yes, 'doting father' in that that is how he WAS seen in the local community. I don't think anybody would henceforth describe him as such but I see the twitterazi are acting as if they would this morning. Guess they missed the following:

"People were curious as to what happened I suppose, and then the word spread that he was arrested for some sort of sexual abuse. People were absolutely shocked, the GAA club took him off committees at once, and he moved away and rented somewhere, and faded out of the community," the local woman explained.

"It was difficult to believe. You would never have suspected anything about his past."

People could not believe that a man who seemed so 'normal' could have such a history.

"It's horrific. You think you know somebody, and then this comes out. There are no words to describe it," the local woman said.

The main focus now is on caring for and protecting McCarville's wife and children, and her parents, who are all very well respected members of the community.
People in the community are understandably cautious in explaining their thoughts and views.

But one man summed up how the parish feel about McCarville's wife and family.

"They are all innocent, and we all need to reinforce our support for them. If we are so shocked by his actions we can only imagine how difficult it is for them."

RabbleRouser2k

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yes, 'doting father' in that that is how he WAS seen in the local community. I don't think anybody would henceforth describe him as such but I see the twitterazi are acting as if they would this morning. Guess they missed the following:

Yeah, they also noted how, bizarrely, he 'just stopped'-like, seemingly stopped raping the kids.

For a sexual predator such as him, usually they do not forgo their abhorrent behaviours-they continue. But he didn't.

RabbleRouser2k

Oh Lon... you make this too easy...

Talking about objectification of Dan Stevens from Beauty and the Beast, and also completely missing the point of Stockholm syndrome.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/845559530306097152

please helpThank YOU

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Oh Lon... you make this too easy...

Talking about objectification of Dan Stevens from Beauty and the Beast, and also completely missing the point of Stockholm syndrome.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/845559530306097152

Einstein theory ?:eek:

Outlaw Pete

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

..completely missing the point of Stockholm syndrome.

She also seemingly misses the whole point of Beauty & The Beast as she was complaining during the week that the Beast wasn't as hot in the film as he was in the animated version......

As for the whole Stockholm thing, feminists have been on about that for a while now, so much so that Emma Watson even addressed it in an interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51NxeWInaxI

RabbleRouser2k

Reading her comments about the 'abusive men' deserve to fail-I wonder if she would turn around and say 'sorry production company who worked on Manchester by the sea'- I don't want anything to do with you.
Doubt it, more than likely she would take the money and run.

blackwhite

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

That's just wrong-won't be using that page again-what's the point? Discourse is important, completely.
I could understand it if the messages were of the 'I hate....insert ethnic, religious, minority group here'-but if you have an opinion you disagree with-shouldn't you be allowed challenge it?

I knew the site was going downhill-but that badly is just a joke, tbh. Wonder if this will apply to posters who criticise the Journal's owner, Denis O'Brien?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jj-barnes/the-world-needs-angry-mot_b_15294434.html

I found this article to be quite disturbing-not for the elements she included, but for certain quotes from within-notably.


Besides being article she, the author, uses to promote her work-this paragraph leapt out at me like a hot dagger.
Really? So circumcision does not count as being 'cut'? It's carried out in so-called civilised society. Boys are routinely abused, on a daily basis-even teachers who see a boy beating beaten the hell out of will just look at it and say 'oh, that's just boys being boys' (I even know a few current folks teaching who have said this to me). Girls, on the other hand...
And I don't care how many children are sold as prostitutes-primarily because one is too much. If it's more boys than girls, or more girls than boys-that is still far too many. And abuse is pretty even, tbqh. The rate of sexual abuse is higher among girls, yes, but the rate of physical abuse is higher among boys. And the statistics about 'men being more evil'...yeah, I call BS on that. We know the domestic violence rates are even keel among men and women, women being more likely to seek help.

There are more statistics in that article-but her 'anger' made me angry-for all the opposite reasons. Her statistics were haphazard at best, loose at worst.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/daniel-cieslak-walks-free-from-court-after-admitting-raping-girl-12_uk_58cbd5bbe4b0be71dcf3c3dd

This article I find troubling. For one thing, the accused believe the girl, a minor, was at least 16 (legal consenting age in the uk)-others noted she seemed closer to 20. So to completely put blame on him is a tad unfair, to say the least. The headline, 'man accused of rape walks free' is a misnomer-no force was used, there wasn't an element of danger involved. He genuinely believed she was of the age to consent (and she consented, despite her age), as did others, such as the taxi driver. In fact, he completely broke down crying when he learned she was underage. He met her at 4am that morning, in a taxi bay-most of us would assume a minor would not be out past that time.
I have no doubt that in this situation, both were victims. But for different reasons.

The Journal is owned by the same people as own boards.

Are there really people in this country stupid enough to think that DOB owns the Journal?

RabbleRouser2k

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/amanda-brunker-my-fractious-relationship-with-neil-prendeville-looks-like-it-could-be-over-35581909.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/amanda-brunker-sick-of-sharing-tv-screen-with-neil-prendeville-783887.html

Claims she's a feminist, claims she's strong, claims to be independent, has an entire segment dedicated to her and her 'botox' on the late late show, so much so that it went over time-leaving a talented musician, with, ya know, talent waiting in the wings as she couldn't go on due to bad Late Late show management...

Then has the gall to claim she 'doesn't want to share' with a man, accusing him of 'mansplaining'...

Really, feminism just turns folks into immature children. It seriously does...and then making a 'threat' as her final line...a man would be vilified for this crap.

TheDavester

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/amanda-brunker-my-fractious-relationship-with-neil-prendeville-looks-like-it-could-be-over-35581909.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/amanda-brunker-sick-of-sharing-tv-screen-with-neil-prendeville-783887.html

Claims she's a feminist, claims she's strong, claims to be independent, has an entire segment dedicated to her and her 'botox' on the late late show, so much so that it went over time-leaving a talented musician, with, ya know, talent waiting in the wings as she couldn't go on due to bad Late Late show management...

Then has the gall to claim she 'doesn't want to share' with a man, accusing him of 'mansplaining'...

Really, feminism just turns folks into immature children. It seriously does...and then making a 'threat' as her final line...a man would be vilified for this crap.

Honestly it's Amanda Brunker - she's Desperate for any attention

please helpThank YOU

In My Opinion Amanda Brunker Loves Attention I had Totally Forgot About Her.

blackwhite

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/amanda-brunker-my-fractious-relationship-with-neil-prendeville-looks-like-it-could-be-over-35581909.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/amanda-brunker-sick-of-sharing-tv-screen-with-neil-prendeville-783887.html

Claims she's a feminist, claims she's strong, claims to be independent, has an entire segment dedicated to her and her 'botox' on the late late show, so much so that it went over time-leaving a talented musician, with, ya know, talent waiting in the wings as she couldn't go on due to bad Late Late show management...

Then has the gall to claim she 'doesn't want to share' with a man, accusing him of 'mansplaining'...

Really, feminism just turns folks into immature children. It seriously does...and then making a 'threat' as her final line...a man would be vilified for this crap.

I think it's more of a reflection on Brunker that she was willing to park her "feminist" principles for long enough to co-host with Prendeville to begin with.

If she's ok with his well-publicised behaviour before hosting the TV show, then what she is accusing him of now pales in comparison.

RabbleRouser2k

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSlgYYnBVsv/

"A woman just approached me in the queue in H&M and asked if I was Rosemary. "Hi!" she said. "Are you Rosemary?" I'm clearly getting too big for my boots, because I assumed she was going to tell me she's a big fan. She watches my snaps every day; she loves my dog. I told her that I was, indeed, Rosemary. I smiled and said hello and I shook her hand. I have a good handshake, I think. It's firm but not too firm and my hands are always warm (but never clammy). I'm pretty sure it's a good handshake. "We had a discussion online a few weeks ago, around the time that you wrote that piece about rape," she said. "I just wanted to introduce myself, to show you that I'm a real person. I'm not a troll. I'm a well-educated woman." I still wasn't sure where this was going, although I was beginning to get the impression that it wasn't going anywhere good. "I just wanted to speak to you, in person, face to face, and to tell you that you had no right. You have a responsibility... not to portray things... You don't get to define what happened to you as rape, when rape..." I don't remember her exact words. I remember that she had braces and blonde hair and that she had said the word "rape", pretty loudly, three times, in H&M off Dame St. There were women everywhere – many of whom will have heard that word enough in this life already. (Haven't we all?) So I interrupted her for them, but also for me – because I spent a week defending my my lived experience from the judgement of strangers, and I don't want to keep doing it, in person, in H&M – and I said, "This isn't the time for this conversation." She disagreed. "I think it is the time! I think it is!" I turned around and rejoined the queue. "Well I think you're disgraceful!" she shouted. "I think you're disgusting!" I'm not sure what she wanted – to show me that she wasn't someone who is only angry and aggressive and vitriolic online? Or did she hope that, by accosting me in public to dismiss my rape story, I would break down and tell her I misinterpreted things and I was sorry and should have said no a fourth time? Anyway. Now I'm drinking tea and shaking a bit and it's a sunny and beautiful day but it doesn't feel like it."


On the one hand, I commend the person for challenging her, on the other, RMC still changes it for her own narrative. But I do admire that there are women out there who disagree with the 'seeming' narrative.

And her 'horror' at someone standing up to her is quite symptomatic of the 'twitterati'.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Have to share this although it might be offensive to some.

My college going 21 old sister was having a few drinks with DLH and other people tonight.

DLH tentatively broached the subject of feminism with his only sister.

To my pride she replied with.

Quote: "Only bad looking yokes who can't get boyfriends are into that"

Beautifully said, this girl is going to go far in life.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

DLH tentatively broached the subject of feminism with his only sister.

To my pride she replied with.

Quote: "Only bad looking yokes who can't get boyfriends are into that"

Beautifully said, this girl is going to go far in life.

Erm, it's a bit obvious but...Naomi Wolff?

retro:electro

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSlgYYnBVsv/

"A woman just approached me in the queue in H&M and asked if I was Rosemary. "Hi!" she said. "Are you Rosemary?" I'm clearly getting too big for my boots, because I assumed she was going to tell me she's a big fan. She watches my snaps every day; she loves my dog. I told her that I was, indeed, Rosemary. I smiled and said hello and I shook her hand. I have a good handshake, I think. It's firm but not too firm and my hands are always warm (but never clammy). I'm pretty sure it's a good handshake. "We had a discussion online a few weeks ago, around the time that you wrote that piece about rape," she said. "I just wanted to introduce myself, to show you that I'm a real person. I'm not a troll. I'm a well-educated woman." I still wasn't sure where this was going, although I was beginning to get the impression that it wasn't going anywhere good. "I just wanted to speak to you, in person, face to face, and to tell you that you had no right. You have a responsibility... not to portray things... You don't get to define what happened to you as rape, when rape..." I don't remember her exact words. I remember that she had braces and blonde hair and that she had said the word "rape", pretty loudly, three times, in H&M off Dame St. There were women everywhere – many of whom will have heard that word enough in this life already. (Haven't we all?) So I interrupted her for them, but also for me – because I spent a week defending my my lived experience from the judgement of strangers, and I don't want to keep doing it, in person, in H&M – and I said, "This isn't the time for this conversation." She disagreed. "I think it is the time! I think it is!" I turned around and rejoined the queue. "Well I think you're disgraceful!" she shouted. "I think you're disgusting!" I'm not sure what she wanted – to show me that she wasn't someone who is only angry and aggressive and vitriolic online? Or did she hope that, by accosting me in public to dismiss my rape story, I would break down and tell her I misinterpreted things and I was sorry and should have said no a fourth time? Anyway. Now I'm drinking tea and shaking a bit and it's a sunny and beautiful day but it doesn't feel like it."


On the one hand, I commend the person for challenging her, on the other, RMC still changes it for her own narrative. But I do admire that there are women out there who disagree with the 'seeming' narrative.

And her 'horror' at someone standing up to her is quite symptomatic of the 'twitterati'.

I commend that person for standing up to her. However, maybe the H&M queue wasn't the best place? Still though, if you are going to write, what you admit to be a very black and white and controversial piece, well guess what, real people are going to find it offensive and not just anonymous eggs on Twitter.
Rosemary looks to be totally milking the situation, almost presenting it as some kind of harassment. She's gotten loads of "omg Hun are you okay xxx she's a troll never mind her", in the comments.

That's what happens when you have buyers remorse and decide 15 years later you were raped.

Parchment

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Have to share this although it might be offensive to some.

My college going 21 old sister was having a few drinks with DLH and other people tonight.

DLH tentatively broached the subject of feminism with his only sister.

To my pride she replied with.

Quote: "Only bad looking yokes who can't get boyfriends are into that"

Beautifully said, this girl is going to go far in life.

Amanda De Cadenet....?

mrsdewinter

anna080 wrote: »

I commend that person for standing up to her. However, maybe the H&M queue wasn't the best place? Still though, if you are going to write, what you admit to be a very black and white and controversial piece, well guess what, real people are going to find it offensive and not just anonymous eggs on Twitter.
Rosemary looks to be totally milking the situation, almost presenting it as some kind of harassment. She's gotten loads of "omg Hun are you okay xxx she's a troll never mind her", in the comments.

That's what happens when you have buyers remorse and decide 15 years later you were raped.

I'd love to read the other woman's account of what happened. It's true, starting a whole conversation about it in the Q at H&M isn't ideal but did Rosemary suggest taking the discussion to a coffee shop?

Peregrine

The last two resurrections of this thread have just been posts about random feminists on twitter or elsewhere. There have been plenty of warnings to stick to the topic of LON. Time to put this thread to bed. It has well and truly run its course.