South Africa V Ireland, Second Test Build-up Thread

Buer

I'm a tad flummoxed if Thornley's suggested changes are true. I think it's pretty much yielding the game in the back line. Marshall was absolutely central to a lot of our good play as well as our exit strategies last Saturday whether he put boot to ball or trucked it up well over the gain line.

Gilroy does not have the all round game of Earls for squeezing the opposition and putting them under pressure. He might be able to beat his man in a phone box but that's not going to be much use if the game is being played through the middle. He lacks the physical presence for this one. I don't fancy 16 stone JP Pietersen coming at him.

I can understand the suggested changes in the pack although I think Dillane thrives off the bench when he comes on against tired legs with a real dynamism with ball in hand.

former total

The Thornley article reads more like guesswork than insider info, but I agree it would be very harsh to drop Marshall or Murphy. I suppose we don't know how wrecked guys are after last week but I'd be disappointed.

vienne86

Olding and Henshaw in midfield? Now I wouldn't have seen that coming, and it sounds interesting.

What time can we expect the team announcement?

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

I'm a tad flummoxed if Thornley's suggested changes are true. I think it's pretty much yielding the game in the back line. Marshall was absolutely central to a lot of our good play as well as our exit strategies last Saturday whether he put boot to ball or trucked it up well over the gain line.

Gilroy does not have the all round game of Earls for squeezing the opposition and putting them under pressure. He might be able to beat his man in a phone box but that's not going to be much use if the game is being played through the middle. He lacks the physical presence for this one. I don't fancy 16 stone JP Pietersen coming at him.

I can understand the suggested changes in the pack although I think Dillane thrives off the bench when he comes on against tired legs with a real dynamism with ball in hand.

Earls did have ice on his arm when he came off. I wonder if there's an injury concern there?

EDIT: The Olding-Marshall swap is probably just rotation. Both are quality and it's probably a good idea to get a good look at both. Marshall was excellent the last day but Olding is no slouch himself and I'd actually be excited to see what Olding-Henshaw could do.

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

The only reason we should (and might) field a weaker side is from a squad management perspective. A lot of guys put in a huge shift last weekend and might not have enough in the tank for another big shift at altitude this week. The coaches need to get the balance right to ensure the greatest chance of winning the game while not shooting themselves in the foot ahead of what potentially could be a decider the following week.

I wouldn't be that concerned with the altitude, to be honest. Only 4 of the starting 15 from last week (Strauss, de Jager, de Klerk and Mapoe) play for either the Lions, Cheetahs or Bulls. Jantjies is likely to come in but Mapoe is potentially being dropped.

The bulk of their team is with the Stormers or Sharks who are based at sea level.

I really think we should be going out all guns blazing this week unless the guys are genuinely too wrecked and they really shouldn't be given they've had a fairly gentle last few months.

If we cop one injury to one of our key players, particularly at halfback, I reckon the 3rd test might be beyond us so I think it would be naive for the coaching team to select with an eye on that.

mfceiling

Buer wrote: »

He lacks the physical presence for this one. I don't fancy 16 stone JP Pietersen coming at him.

Earls is 5 10 and 90 kgs.

Gilroy is 6ft and 93kgs.

He's a big enough lad but I know his defence isn't the greatest. Mind you wouldn't it be good for once to have a bit of a threat on the wing...Make the Boks have to worry about not missing tackles or they're 5 points down.

shootermacg

I'm more afraid of the second game slump to be honest. Ireland have a habit of following a great performance with a terrible one.

Buer

mfceiling wrote: »

Earls is 5 10 and 90 kgs.

Gilroy is 6ft and 93kgs.

He's a big enough lad but I know his defence isn't the greatest. Mind you wouldn't it be good for once to have a bit of a threat on the wing...Make the Boks have to worry about not missing tackles or they're 5 points down.

Ah, I know Earls isn't a big bloke but he puts himself about far more. We've seen him absolutely rattle people in kick chases and launch himself into tackles. That isn't Gilroy's game.

I can only think that Earls still is a little sore from the knock he took on the arm.

No issue with Olding coming in; I don't think we'll lose too much although my concern would be removing someone who is in such good form and takes pressure off Jackson.

Mr Tickle

Buer wrote: »

No issue with Olding coming in; I don't think we'll lose too much although my concern would be removing someone who is in such good form and takes pressure off Jackson.

Isn't olding capable of being a playmaking 12 too? It's just a pity given how good Marshal was.

shootermacg

shootermacg wrote: »

I'm more afraid of the second game slump to be honest. Ireland have a habit of following a great performance with a terrible one.

Hasn't really been the case under Schmidt as much as other coaches though

Dog Botherer

Buer wrote: »

Ah, I know Earls isn't a big bloke but he puts himself about far more. We've seen him absolutely rattle people in kick chases and launch himself into tackles. That isn't Gilroy's game.

???

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Isn't olding capable of being a playmaking 12 too? It's just a pity given how good Marshal was.

Olding is a pure playmaking 12 in the mould of Mauger or Giteau.

former total

Dog Botherer wrote: »

???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsQXmcX8P8

His kick chase isn't as good as Earls' but there's nothing wrong with his tackling. His defensive issues are far more about positioning.



Olding is a pure playmaking 12 in the mould of Mauger or Giteau.

Fixed your post to show the video, but that's from three years ago. There's a reason he hasn't figured for Ireland since then.

Gilroy is a rubbish tackler. No two ways about that. Earls has been accused of poor tackling before but he's a colossus compared to Gilroy.

bilston

Can't say I'd be too keen on Gilroy starting. That said Earls did get a knock last week and he seems to be the next cab off the rank. Whether SA have the kicking game to target him or not remains to be seen. It did occur to me that had SA been attacking Gilroy's wing instead of Trimble's at the end last week would the outcome have been so positive for us!

Less concerns (well no cocerns really) about Olding over Marshall, however Marshall was excellent last week so seems harsh, but it may have been part of the plan all along. But we'll see what Joe comes up with.

Dog Botherer

former total wrote: »

Fixed your post to show the video, but that's from three years ago. There's a reason he hasn't figured for Ireland since then.

Gilroy is a rubbish tackler. No two ways about that. Earls has been accused of poor tackling before but he's a colossus compared to Gilroy.

In fairness, neither of them are getting picked for their defense

blackdog1

bilston wrote:

Can't say I'd be too keen on Gilroy starting. That said Earls did get a knock last week and he seems to be the next cab off the rank. Whether SA have the kicking game to target him or not remains to be seen. It did occur to me that had SA been attacking Gilroy's wing instead of Trimble's at the end last week would the outcome have been so positive for us!

Earls gave masterclass in defence last week. People really should re watch the match and look at him. He was very banged up after it though so only natural he gets rested.

salmocab

Im inclined to think he will just bring in Ruddock. Sometimes we can all get caught up in having our favorite players start or the new guy to get his first start etc but Im fairly sure coaches at the top level want real impact on the bench, for me right now bringing Dillane on can make a difference in the final 20 minutes. Its not always about jamming the 15 best players onto the pitch for kick off but sometimes about having a very strong team to finish out games. Anyone that watches the GAA wil know that Dublin regularly use Kevin Mc Mannamon as a real impact sub, he is one of Dublins best players but is used as a sub a lot, just so he can be brought on with his very strong direct running which tired defenders really struggle with.
That all said I wouldn't be disappointed with Dillane coming in and Henderson moving to 6.

Buer

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Isn't olding capable of being a playmaking 12 too? It's just a pity given how good Marshal was.

He is but I don't think he has the power to take crap ball and truck/tidy it up as Marshall did.

Jackson and Marshall also have a lot more game time together.

Teferi

When is the team announcement? Tomorrow, I assume?

former total

Teferi wrote: »

When is the team announcement? Tomorrow, I assume?

Today I'd imagine, it's usually Thursday for Saturday games

Dog Botherer

Olding is a massive talent, probably our biggest right now (except maybe Ryan in the U20s) and needs to have a chance on the biggest of stages. Joe is obviously a huge fan, despite his injury record and his struggle to break into the Ulster starting 15 this season.

A start against the Boks in Ellis Park might very well be the making of him. He'd run rings around De Allende.

pickarooney

It's great to have these essentially meaningless games to try out the likes of Olding and really test the level of the young bucks like Dillane and Furlong. I'd be very content to lose the next two games if it gave us solid answers about the future of some fringe players.

Mr Tickle

Is Olding an option to cover 10 at international level? I know he does it for ulster but does he give us the possibility to leave madigan out of the 23 and have 2 outside backs on the bench.

Podge_irl

pickarooney wrote: »

It's great to have these essentially meaningless games to try out the likes of Olding and really test the level of the young bucks like Dillane and Furlong. I'd be very content to lose the next two games if it gave us solid answers about the future of some fringe players.

Eh...what?

We lose the next two games and let a series win over SA slip and I won't be happy no matter what the circumstances. I'm genuinely confused as to whether this was sarcasm or not.

Podge_irl

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Is Olding an option to cover 10 at international level? I know he does it for ulster but does he give us the possibility to leave madigan out of the 23 and have 2 outside backs on the bench.

Schmidt has mentioned him in the conversation to cover 10 but I imagine he would be more of an emergency option at the moment - especially if he starts. Can't see Madigan not making the bench.

Dog Botherer

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Is Olding an option to cover 10 at international level? I know he does it for ulster but does he give us the possibility to leave madigan out of the 23 and have 2 outside backs on the bench.

He started at 10 for the U20s (and he's listed as a 10 on the IRFU website) but yeah, 10 is far too important a role to take the risk having very inexperienced cover. Madigan will bench.

jacothelad

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Is Olding an option to cover 10 at international level? I know he does it for ulster but does he give us the possibility to leave madigan out of the 23 and have 2 outside backs on the bench.

To be honest, Olding has looked poor at 10 for Ulster. Now he hasn't played much rugby in the last 2 seasons and even less at 10 than 12 or 15. If he was ever to be seen as a possible back up 10 at Ireland level he'd need to have played there and spent a season with a kicking coach. His kicking from hand and tee was rubbish - understandably. He is a hugely skilled player but he isn't an international 10. In fact I'd take Marshall at 10 ahead of him if an emergency came up.

swiwi_

Teferi wrote: »

When is the team announcement? Tomorrow, I assume?

You should know this well by now Teferi

1) As late as possible
2) And not before every other team playing international rugby this weekend has named theirs

Ladies first as they say, or althought I wouldn't say that directly to the SA's face.

Mr Tickle

swiwi_ wrote: »

You should know this well by now Teferi

1) As late as possible
2) And not before every other team playing international rugby this weekend has named theirs

Ladies first as they say, or althought I wouldn't say that directly to the SA's face.

I think our team came out first last week....

Teferi

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think our team came out first last week....

Ah in fairness, we tend to bring it out as late as possible, in general. I think I've seen fans from every country mention it, it's started to become a meme.

part time punk

Podge_irl wrote: »

Eh...what?

We lose the next two games and let a series win over SA slip and I won't be happy no matter what the circumstances. I'm genuinely confused as to whether this was sarcasm or not.

Yeah, think if we still lose the series, last Saturday's win will have been for nothing. A few snippets for the highlights reel but all be a bit anti-climatic, kind of like some of our WC experiences. Such a great opportunity for them now