South Africa V Ireland, Second Test Build-up Thread

Teferi

Will the lads be able to manage to take the second test and claim a historic series win? We're playing above a sea level the players will be used to, can they recover physically and emotionally in time? Will there be a hangover from the last test?

Stander is out, so who comes in for him? Ruddock straight on and someone to the bench? Or would you switch it around another way?

sydthebeat

ruddock straight in with reidy to the bench would be my call.

I think the more interesting calls will be on the boks side. Steyn comes in for Lambie and i would be surprised (and very glad) if he doesnt get the starting 10 shirt. He has a much better kicking boot to janties and although he wouldnt be considered the future of bok out halves, i think cotezee is already under pressure so he may revert to tried and tested. In the altitude of Ellis park, joburg the ball will fly miles long and high, and id expect the boks to adhere to a much more kicking game than they did last week.

i could also see kreil starting, possibly at 13 instead of mapoe to get some real incision off de allande. Mapoe was shown as quite clueless at this level last week. The only other unforced change that we could see would be the swapping out of kolisi for vermeulen and whitley coming in at 8. Whitley is having an absolute barn storming season so far, and that back row of vermeulen, lowe and whitley would be irresistable.

its a hard one to call... ireland with 15 for 80 mins at the same level of control would not be beaten by this boks side (its poor)
however, have we ever produced two flawless performances in a row?

boks by 5 i think

swiwi_

Nice summary syd. I agree mapoe looked all at sea.

It is ludicrous to suggest Ireland should throw this test and concentrate on the decider. A good start on Saturday for Ireland and the boks might implode.

There are currently relatively few bok players who would challenge a world XV. In particular I think ezebeth is a bit overrated. De Jager and du toit are class though.

I was very impressed with Ireland's mental fortitude last week, no snatching defeat from the jaws of victory although on non-Irish rugby forums Murray was slated (and I agree) for gifting back possession with time up.

I've never seen a fly half who looks like he's just entering puberty play with as much poise, Jackson had a good game.

Reckon Ireland can win this for sure.

former total

Ruddock straight in, no other changes to the XV I reckon. Not a massive step down.

I think we'll lose but backing up last week with another quality display is more important than the result.

I'd love to see another strong performance from Marshall in particular.

molloyjh

How about Ryan and Dillane on the bench with Ruddock starting? I know neither are really back rows but is it a better option than Reidy starting I wonder.

I understand the point re not throwing the Test, I would just worry that playing a full strength side again at altitude after last week might be asking too much of them. Lose it and you're asking them to play a third Test in a row then. We'll probably need at least some rotation given the sheer mountain of work some of the lads got through last week.

Mahatma Geansai

While bringing Ruddock in at 6 would involve the least disruption, our strongest squad would involve bringing Dillane into the second-row and shifting Henderson to his more familiar blindside. We could then have Ryan and Ruddock covering from the bench.

Mr Tickle

molloyjh wrote: »

How about Ryan and Dillane on the bench with Ruddock starting? I know neither are really back rows but is it a better option than Reidy starting I wonder.

I understand the point re not throwing the Test, I would just worry that playing a full strength side again at altitude after last week might be asking too much of them. Lose it and you're asking them to play a third Test in a row then. We'll probably need at least some rotation given the sheer mountain of work some of the lads got through last week.

I think we can afford some rotation without it being considered throwing the game. Trimble must be exhausted for example. Maybe he gets a rest and Gilroy starts with TOH on the bench. or earls benches with gilroy starting.

If nothing else the bench will be much more important. I can't imagine both jackson and Murray could do another 80 after last week. Jack McGrath too.

techdiver

I see no reason to fear this weekend.

I can't see how South Africa can fix the issues they had last week in just one week. Ireland with 15 for the entire game should look to take the game to South Africa and win the test.

It would be great going into the final test with the comfort of giving some fringe players a shot against the Springboks in South Africa (whether Joe will do this I don't know), instead of having to play a full strength team 3 weeks in a row.

As others have alluded to, can be back up last week performance and bring some consistency of performance to the table. Whilst our consistency under Joe has improved from previous regimes I still think we are not consistent enough to put together barnstorming back to back performances. I hope I'm wrong.

Kiwi_knock

Should really be nothing to fear. The South African attack was very basic, their backs coach has little or no experience at a high level and it really showed. Not sure they can remedy that within a couple of days.

former total

molloyjh wrote: »

How about Ryan and Dillane on the bench with Ruddock starting? I know neither are really back rows but is it a better option than Reidy starting I wonder.

I understand the point re not throwing the Test, I would just worry that playing a full strength side again at altitude after last week might be asking too much of them. Lose it and you're asking them to play a third Test in a row then. We'll probably need at least some rotation given the sheer mountain of work some of the lads got through last week.

I'm not sure of Reidy's quality either but if he's not going to be picked in these exact circumstances you'd wonder why he's there at all.

I'd go all out for this one and worry about the third test later. SA are only going to improve as time goes on, better to hit them now.

The Pheasant2

sydthebeat wrote: »

ruddock straight in with reidy to the bench would be my call.

I think the more interesting calls will be on the boks side. Steyn comes in for Lambie and i would be surprised (and very glad) if he doesnt get the starting 10 shirt. He has a much better kicking boot to janties and although he wouldnt be considered the future of bok out halves, i think cotezee is already under pressure so he may revert to tried and tested. In the altitude of Ellis park, joburg the ball will fly miles long and high, and id expect the boks to adhere to a much more kicking game than they did last week.

i could also see kreil starting, possibly at 13 instead of mapoe to get some real incision off de allande. Mapoe was shown as quite clueless at this level last week. The only other unforced change that we could see would be the swapping out of kolisi for vermeulen and whitley coming in at 8. Whitley is having an absolute barn storming season so far, and that back row of vermeulen, lowe and whitley would be irresistable.

its a hard one to call... ireland with 15 for 80 mins at the same level of control would not be beaten by this boks side (its poor)
however, have we ever produced two flawless performances in a row?

boks by 5 i think

Steyn in for Jantjes, Kriel in for Mapoe and Duane in for Kolisi...would these changes even be allowed given it's 3 whites for 3 blacks?

sydthebeat

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Steyn in for Jantjes, Kriel in for Mapoe and Duane in for Kolisi...would these changes even be allowed given it's 3 whites for 3 blacks?

I haven't a clue

Surely cotezee has free rein when choosing form his squad?

bilston

Ruddock for Stander and ideally Furlong will get one start on the tour so I'd maybe hold Ross back for the 3rd test.

pickarooney

Teferi wrote: »

Will the lads be able to manage to take the second test and claim a historic series win? We're playing above a sea level the players will be used to, can they recover physically and emotionally in time? Will there be a hangover from the last test?

Stander is out, so who comes in for him? Ruddock straight on and someone to the bench? Or would you switch it around another way?

Would you say we'll be playing above international sea level?

CMOTDibbler

pickarooney wrote: »

Would you say we'll be playing above international sea level?

With global warming, it's hard to know what is sea level any more :eek:

mfceiling

Definitely have to go for the juggler on Saturday. Give the Boks an easy ride and their tails will be up for the 3rd game. Knock them around on Saturday and even a tight win wouldn't give them much confidence for the last game.

Can't give the feckers as much an inch in any of the games. Fcuk them and their "physicality"...We gave as good as we got on Saturday...same again please.

MJohnston

I never thought throwing the game would be in store, but I do think we could field a really strong team with some rotation, especially in the backs. I'd specifically like to see Olding get some time, though I'm not certain where exactly.

Adbrowne

Seen this on a twitter feed as a suggested team.


15. Jared Payne
14. Andrew Trimble
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Luke Marshall
11. Keith Earls
10. Paddy Jackson
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Ultan Dillane
6. Iain Henderson
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Jamie Heaslip

.ak

I think the management will be desperate to try and win the series now rather then leave it to the last day...

Um, why wouldn't they try win this match?

thebaz

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, why wouldn't they try win this match?

a wounded Springbok is going to return in frenzy , for this reason I just can't see Ireland winning , I fear a comrensive defeat - hopefully I'm wrong , just fear that South africa will not tolerate another defeat , a bit like there recovery after defeat in the WC.

sydthebeat

thebaz wrote: »

a wounded Springbok is going to return in frenzy , for this reason I just can't see Ireland winning , I fear a comrensive defeat - hopefully I'm wrong , just fear that South africa will not tolerate another defeat , a bit like there recovery after defeat in the WC.

This is not a bok team of old.... It's a new squad with a new coach, and neither is particularly great.

If ireland can keep they mistakes to a minimum, they're the better team and should win.

I just worry that we will find it hard to put in two good back to back performances.

There's very little about this boks team that frightens me.

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

a wounded Springbok is going to return in frenzy , for this reason I just can't see Ireland winning , I fear a comrensive defeat - hopefully I'm wrong , just fear that South africa will not tolerate another defeat , a bit like there recovery after defeat in the WC.

That's all well and good, but should Ireland should put forward a weaker side on purpose because of this?

MJohnston

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's all well and good, but should Ireland should put forward a weaker side on purpose because of this?

There's plenty of ways to get different people game time this weekend that don't involve it being a weaker side.

thebaz

Deleted User wrote: »

That's all well and good, but should Ireland should put forward a weaker side on purpose because of this?

no , they have to try and win it , just think it will be really tough - good idea to rotate any tired or the slightly injured , keep squad players involved

Zzippy

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

While bringing Ruddock in at 6 would involve the least disruption, our strongest squad would involve bringing Dillane into the second-row and shifting Henderson to his more familiar blindside. We could then have Ryan and Ruddock covering from the bench.

You need a bit of impact from the bench. Ryan isn't really a big impact player, Dillane is. Can't see much change from last week but just Ruddock straight in for Stander.

awec

I don't care which way they go really, either Ryan or Reidy will end up on the bench and neither have much of a future with Ireland.

errlloyd

awec wrote: »

I don't care which way they go really, either Ryan or Reidy will end up on the bench and neither have much of a future with Ireland.

You're ruling out Roux. Ultimate joeball if he's on the bench instead.

.ak

errlloyd wrote: »

You're ruling out Roux. Ultimate joeball if he's on the bench instead.

Clegg

Posted this in the other thread but it needs to go here too.

Thornley suggests that Earls, Murphy and Marshall will all be rested this weekend. Gilroy, Ruddock and Olding will replace them. With Stander suspended Hendo will go to 6 and Ruddock to 7. So Dillane to start alongside Toner if that's the case. An Olding/Henshaw midfield sounds really intriguing.

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's all well and good, but should Ireland should put forward a weaker side on purpose because of this?

The only reason we should (and might) field a weaker side is from a squad management perspective. A lot of guys put in a huge shift last weekend and might not have enough in the tank for another big shift at altitude this week. The coaches need to get the balance right to ensure the greatest chance of winning the game while not shooting themselves in the foot ahead of what potentially could be a decider the following week.