South Africa V Ireland, Second Test Build-up Thread

sheep?

pickarooney wrote: »

How has Heaslip only 65 caps? In his thirties, ten years in the team, never injured, unchallenged in his position in ages...

I was just about to post that, especially since Murray has 48!

CMOTDibbler

sheep? wrote: »

I was just about to post that, especially since Murray has 48!

Not for the first time, Wikipedia is wrong. He has 86 caps for Ireland. Including only 4 sub appearances.

The Lost Sheep

Zzippy wrote: »

Not ahead of Muldowney, but Dillane only broke into the team when Quinn Roux got injured, in November IIRC. Toner is an international lock with tons of experience, it's fanciful to think he wouldn't have been ahead of all our other locks.

Yeah Ultan was still playing AIL for Corinthians in 2A back in October.

nehe milner skudder

That bok team is dreadful

Zzippy

nehe milner skudder wrote: »

That bok team is dreadful

Getting the excuses in for the SH early?

blackdog1

Clearlier wrote:

It's Furlong I'm most interested to see. We all know that he offers more around the pitch than Ross but to date all of the evidence that we have suggests that his scrummaging is still off the level of Ross. Ross had trouble with Mtawarira last week but we didn't get to see Furlong against him as he left the pitch at the same time as Ross. This week we get to see how Furlong handles him right from the start.

This is the one I'm interested in too. Saying that Ross had Toner behind him and a winger for most scrums. Furlong needs game time for next world cup and behlam needs exposure too. Six nations is where the money is at you have to experiment for summer tours and autumn. Can only see Jack play 60 too with kilcoyne coming on. Also I'd say Strauss is in to help the young lads in the scrum late on. Should be s cracking game. Slightly worried about oldies physicality compared to Marshall but hope I'm wrong. Great selection for squad morale. Everyone must be on a high.

thebaz

like the experimentation - but can't figure why Dillane is dropped - and marshall in particular - himself and Henshaw looked the best midfield we have had since you know who - but Joe knows best

Billysays no

Zzippy wrote: »

Getting the excuses in for the SH early?

is it a necessity as a mod that you are smarter and wittier than us lesser mortals? :-). Its most annoying

MJohnston

You're making the mistake of thinking of any of the lads as being 'dropped'. Joe has always said he wanted to rotate the squads a lot, and this is that in action.

CatFromHue

MJohnston wrote: »

You're making the mistake of thinking of any of the lads as being 'dropped'. Joe has always said he wanted to rotate the squads a lot, and this is that in action.

yeah, he said this to thornley

“I don’t think I’d ever use the word rotate but I think we’ll make those decisions later in the week,” said Schmidt in the aftermath of Saturday’s win. “We’ve got to be conscious that we’re going to altitude, that we’re going to need some fresh legs and it is a long season.”

“I guess the other part is that we’ve got some players that we want to find out a little bit about on this tour. That was always our intention so we do want to offer some opportunity but at the same time you earn the jersey and it’s pretty hard to take it off some of those guys who demonstrated their commitment to it again today.”

stephen_n

I'm actually really looking forward to seeing how Olding gets on. Marshall will most likely be back in for the last test regardless of how he goes. But I'm dying to see if he can step up to this level.

jblowsdsl

Remember when the Japanese beat South Africa in the world cup. South Africa came out third best. Don't under estimate them. That was only their weak team.

CMOTDibbler

jblowsdsl wrote: »

Remember when the Japanese beat South Africa in the world cup. South Africa came out third best. Don't under estimate them. That was only their weak team.

Not sure I follow you. It's pretty much the same team for the second test bar injuries.

stephen_n

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Not sure I follow you. It's pretty much the same team for the second test bar injuries.

I assume he means that the SA team at the World Cup was supposedly a weak team and yet they came third. That of course isn't taking into account a favorable draw. I don't think this SA are stronger than us myself. It's a fairly evenly matched team on paper. The result may come down to the coaches, where we have the advantage. SA were inept last week, they couldn't exploit the space outside even when we were down to 13. If they try truck it up the middle the same way this week, we will beat them.

kuang1

stephen_n wrote: »

I assume he means that the SA team at the World Cup was supposedly a weak team and yet they came third. That of course isn't taking into account a favorable draw. I don't think this SA are stronger than us myself. It's a fairly evenly matched team on paper. The result may come down to the coaches, where we have the advantage. SA were inept last week, they couldn't exploit the space outside even when we were down to 13. If they try truck it up the middle the same way this week, we will beat them.

I don't think they've been together (with new coach) long enough to have any plan B imo.
If they couldn't beat us last week, then I for one will be disappointed if we don't win on Saturday given how few changes they have and despite the altitude too.
The Boks didn't look like a team who wanted to play for each other.

They looked disjointed, unmotivated and incohesive.
It is not possible to turn those aspects around in the space of a week.

Coetzee has a mammoth task if he's to win his own dressing room imo. Will take a few good results, not just 2 victories on the next 2 Saturdays. (which I don't think he'll get!)

molloyjh

kuang1 wrote: »

I don't think they've been together (with new coach) long enough to have any plan B imo.
If they couldn't beat us last week, then I for one will be disappointed if we don't win on Saturday given how few changes they have and despite the altitude too.
The Boks didn't look like a team who wanted to play for each other.

They looked disjointed, unmotivated and incohesive.
It is not possible to turn those aspects around in the space of a week.

Coetzee has a mammoth task if he's to win his own dressing room imo. Will take a few good results, not just 2 victories on the next 2 Saturdays. (which I don't think he'll get!)

Don't underestimate the galvanising effect a big loss can have on a side.

kuang1

molloyjh wrote: »

Don't underestimate the galvanising effect a big loss can have on a side.

I'm trying not to...honest!
But SA has been sprouting leaks ever since Argentina beat them on their own turf last year.
They've mixed 2 of their worst results* (that loss to Argentina and to Japan in the WC) with some decent rugby.

I for one am not forgetting that they only lost by 2 points to NZ in the semi final...and that was 9 MONTHS AGO!!!!

Anyway...point is my gut says that this SA team seem to be in a bit of a demoralised state. And as mindful as I am of the dangers of a wounded beast, a wounded beast is easier to slay than a non-wounded one. (So long as the slayer has sufficient guile!)

*Should that now read 3 worst results after last Saturday?!

molloyjh

kuang1 wrote: »

I'm trying not to...honest!
But SA has been sprouting leaks ever since Argentina beat them on their own turf last year.
They've mixed 2 of their worst results* (that loss to Argentina and to Japan in the WC) with some decent rugby.

I for one am not forgetting that they only lost by 2 points to NZ in the semi final...and that was 9 MONTHS AGO!!!!

Anyway...point is my gut says that this SA team seem to be in a bit of a demoralised state. And as mindful as I am of the dangers of a wounded beast, a wounded beast is easier to slay than a non-wounded one. (So long as the slayer has sufficient guile!)

*Should that now read 3 worst results after last Saturday?!

Haven't they followed up those 2 previous results with wins and performances though? They certainly did in the RWC anyway.

nehe milner skudder

regardless of whether SA win or not they are in a really bad place from a form, personnel and ideology perspective.

kuang1

molloyjh wrote: »

Haven't they followed up those 2 previous results with wins and performances though? They certainly did in the RWC anyway.

What was their following game after Argentina beat them? Can't google it right now.
Edit: was it the return game IN Argentina which they won?

phog

Our S&S Club are doing a prediction quiz (it runs right up to 20th Sept) the 1st question is the winner of our 2nd test V SA. I had originally said Ireland would win tomorrow and lose the 3rd test, as the closing date is today I'm changing my prediction to Ireland lose tomorrow and win next week. That's not a reflection on the Irish team more that I'm expecting a backlash and I'm a tad concerned about the high altitude too.

thomond2006

I don't see an Ireland win but we'll learn a lot.

molloyjh

kuang1 wrote: »

What was their following game after Argentina beat them? Can't google it right now.
Edit: was it the return game IN Argentina which they won?

Yeah, although I didn't see that one so not sure of the performance. They won 12-26 so it may not have been a performance of note.

leakyboots

Being someone who wanted the tried & trusted shaken up for a while, I can't complain about a selection like that. If we, the Irish fans, don't quite know what to make of it, then the Saffers won't have a clue. Good to see fresh faces, hope they all go well

CMOTDibbler

leakyboots wrote: »

Being someone who wanted the tried & trusted shaken up for a while, I can't complain about a selection like that. If we, the Irish fans, don't quite know what to make of it, then the Saffers won't have a clue. Good to see fresh faces, hope they all go well

This.

It puts a lot of pressure on South Africa. If they view it as a second string team to rest players then the pressure is on them to win. If they see it otherwise, they won't know what to expect in terms of formation and playing style, so the pressure will still be on them.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

It must be stressful being involved in South African rugby. New coaching set up, new players, first international games since the WC, some senior players gone, and yet they're still expected to win straight away. Obviously losing to 14(13) man Ireland, already missing some big names is not a good look for any team but it really seems like a high pressure job. It's unlikely but I can't imagine the reaction if they lose all 3 tests.

Neil3030

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It must be stressful being involved in South African rugby. New coaching set up, new players, first international games since the WC, some senior players gone, and yet they're still expected to win straight away. Obviously losing to 14(13) man Ireland, already missing some big names is not a good look for any team but it really seems like a high pressure job. It's unlikely but I can't imagine the reaction if they lose all 3 tests.

And on that note, and more generally speaking, you'd wonder how well the SH would do were the WC held in June.....

Adbrowne

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It must be stressful being involved in South African rugby. New coaching set up, new players, first international games since the WC, some senior players gone, and yet they're still expected to win straight away. Obviously losing to 14(13) man Ireland, already missing some big names is not a good look for any team but it really seems like a high pressure job. It's unlikely but I can't imagine the reaction if they lose all 3 tests.

And dont forget the quota's

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Neil3030 wrote: »

And on that note, and more generally speaking, you'd wonder how well the SH would do were the WC held in June.....

I remember people discussing this around the WC and they were basically coming to the conclusion that there are positives and negatives to it for both hemispheres.

I would say that having genuine competitive test rugby in the run up to the WC is better than having "warm up" games where you're still trying to select your squad. I know they had a reduced rugby championship last season but the SH teams still had 3 proper tests not that long before the WC.

Adbrowne

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I remember people discussing this around the WC and they were basically coming to the conclusion that there are positives and negatives to it for both hemispheres.

I would say that having genuine competitive test rugby in the run up to the WC is better than having "warm up" games where you're still trying to select your squad. I know they had a reduced rugby championship last season but the SH teams still had 3 proper tests not that long before the WC.

4 tests. Arg played SA home and away and NZ likewise against Australia