South Africa V Ireland, Second Test Build-up Thread

Podge_irl

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Hopefully Schmidt isn't only shedding the shackles now as he knows that he is off when the tour is over.

It's not like he was ever remotely in danger of losing his job. Doesn't really strike me as his style - though impossible to know what's going on in someone's head I guess.

This is the first 3 test tour he's brought Ireland on though right?

Clearlier

Zzippy wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking that Joe's got all adventurous now because he knows he's leaving... no need to be conservative anymore.

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Exciting selection. Some odd selections - Roux in particular stands out - but the side has a very fresh, if somewhat weakened, look to it.

Hopefully Schmidt isn't only shedding the shackles now as he knows that he is off when the tour is over.

I doubt it. If anything I'd suggest that the opposite is the case. If he were planning to leave then he'd probably just have stuck to as close to the same team as possible and focused entirely on getting a series win which would be a fantastic achievement to add to his CV for the NZ job. Rotating like this is more likely to be done with a view to the future and finding out as much as he can about players seeing as he hasn't really got that opportunity in the 6 nations.

Sanjuro

Clearlier wrote: »

I doubt it. If anything I'd suggest that the opposite is the case. If he were planning to leave then he'd probably just have stuck to as close to the same team as possible and focused entirely on getting a series win which would be a fantastic achievement to add to his CV for the NZ job. Rotating like this is more likely to be done with a view to the future and finding out as much as he can about players seeing as he hasn't really got that opportunity in the 6 nations.

It could also be argued that Joe is such a consummate professional that while he's the Ireland coach, he thinks entirely with the well-being of that team for the future and not with his own CV in mind. Which means he could still be leaving in a few weeks time.

whatawaster

Sanjuro wrote: »

It could also be argued that Joe is such a consummate professional that while he's the Ireland coach, he thinks entirely with the well-being of that team for the future and not with his own CV in mind. Which means he could still be leaving in a few weeks time.

Or, the massive, 14-man, 60 minute effort last saturday took a massive toll on the team, and fresh legs were absolutely needed.

pickarooney

Podge_irl wrote: »

Don't get Dillane losing out in that case. Not like he put in a long shift

I'd say he'll get 35 minutes once Quinner has figured out the lineout calls by lip-reading the props whispering to Strauss.

Oh wait, he's dropped completely?

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not like he was ever remotely in danger of losing his job. Doesn't really strike me as his style - though impossible to know what's going on in someone's head I guess.

This is the first 3 test tour he's brought Ireland on though right?

Yeah, we went on a 2 Test tour of Argentina 2 years ago and saw a fair bit of rotation across those 2 games as well IIRC. So I actually don't think this is unprecedented with Joe at all. He just has greater scope to do more with that additional Test.

EDIT: Joe made 7 changes in the second game in Argentina, including starting Hendo beside POC at lock. So it isn't unprecedented. It also suggests that he has been planning for certain things for a number of years like Hendo in the row.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, we went on a 2 Test tour of Argentina 2 years ago and saw a fair bit of rotation across those 2 games as well IIRC. So I actually don't think this is unprecedented with Joe at all. He just has greater scope to do more with that additional Test.

I could be wrong, but did we not leave a lot of guys at home who had been on the Lions tour the previous season to give them a rest?

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

I could be wrong, but did we not leave a lot of guys at home who had been on the Lions tour the previous season to give them a rest?

Got in before my edit!

We still made 7 changes between the 2 games in Argentina. So rotation is something Joe seems to look to do on these summer tours, using the pathetic sample size of 2 as our guide.

galwaylad14

Zzippy wrote: »

Am I the only one thinking that Joe's got all adventurous now because he knows he's leaving... no need to be conservative anymore.




He spent most of the season injured, and tbh nearly every other Irish lock bar Toner would have been behind Muldowney and Dillane this season the way they were playing.

There's not a hope Toner would have been in the Connacht team ahead of either of those boys.

Zzippy

galwaylad14 wrote: »

There's not a hope Toner would have been in the Connacht team ahead of either of those boys.

Not ahead of Muldowney, but Dillane only broke into the team when Quinn Roux got injured, in November IIRC. Toner is an international lock with tons of experience, it's fanciful to think he wouldn't have been ahead of all our other locks.

That was also a second string Argentina team. Not quite the same as this tour at all.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

That was also a second string Argentina team. Not quite the same as this tour at all.

We have literally nothing else to compare this tour to though. As awec said we left a few guys at home that summer too so while we weren't quite second string we weren't at full strength either. Also, it's not like this is the same as the SA teams of a few years ago. At least it doesn't look like it right now...

Adbrowne

only 62 posts in 4 hours after an ireland team announcement. Boards mods must have incriminating pics of JS

errlloyd

Refreshingly positive pre-match atmosphere around here though. Usually this means we're about to get seriously dicked on.

But we're gonna do it in style.

Buer

This has to be the biggest pack that Ireland have ever put out. The average weight of the front five is over 118kg and that's allowing for Best who, according to the Irish Rugby site, only weights 105kg. The locks and props are monsters. Henderson in the backrow adds another 121kg.

Heaslip and Ruddock are comparatively small players at a mere 6'3" and 110kg each.

Billysays no

Adbrowne wrote: »

only 62 posts in 4 hours after an ireland team announcement. Boards mods must have incriminating pics of JS

that's only because I haven't shared my viewpoint yet at which time things would go into hyperdrive as folks share their distaste with my opinion

Neil3030

Love it, love it, love it from Joe. The main talking point is that a wounded Springbok team will revert to type and bring an immensely physical game to Jo'burg to restore pride. How tempting it must therefore be to try match them in this dimension, i.e., bring the fight.

But the far more sensible option is to exploit wherever their gameplan will leave them weak. While they are busy overstaffing rucks with human torpedos, they will inadvertently create space out wide for Olding, Gilroy and Payne. A few decent early phase carries (Henderson in the back row, <check>) and any linebreak will result in a sevens game on the flanks - Gilroy in off his wing could really show up a retreating DeAllende and Mapoe.

And Joe being Joe, he has us switching it up, while also covering the bases. Quinn Roux will help anchor the scrum, but also provide 125kg of Afrikaaner point-proving beef. A complete expendable who will just be sent out to get stuck in. Donnacha Ryan is then just the man you want to come on and be the bag man.

Really looking forward to this game.

Dog Botherer

Malherbe must have pics of Coetzee doing something very incriminating to a springbok. Not since the days of Dylan Hartley in his prime have I seen a player so determined to lose his team a game.

Bazzo

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Malherbe must have pics of Coetzee doing something very incriminating to a springbok. Not since the days of Dylan Hartley in his prime have I seen a player so determined to lose his team a game.

Was it Malherbe who gifted Ireland 6 points through stupid penalties? I remember thinking that some prop had given away 2 stupid ones and the South Africans must have been raging with him.

Dog Botherer

Bazzo wrote: »

Was it Malherbe who gifted Ireland 6 points through stupid penalties? I remember thinking that some prop had given away 2 stupid ones and the South Africans must have been raging with him.

Aye that was him. He also gave a stupid one away when we were under the cosh that allowed us to clear, and got reamed out of it at scrum time by Andrew Trimble.

pickarooney

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Malherbe must have pics of Coetzee doing something very incriminating to a springbok. Not since the days of Dylan Hartley in his prime have I seen a player so determined to lose his team a game.

One of the Argentina THs in the world cup would put him in the ha'penny place.

Billysays no

Buer wrote: »

This has to be the biggest pack that Ireland have ever put out. The average weight of the front five is over 118kg and that's allowing for Best who, according to the Irish Rugby site, only weights 105kg. The locks and props are monsters. Henderson in the backrow adds another 121kg.

Heaslip and Ruddock are comparatively small players at a mere 6'3" and 110kg each.

Seems Joe is lining up for a slugfest in the pack which I think is what we should expect. Then he has freshened up the backline also. So we should be able to slug it out and then we have an interesting backline to make it exciting. Is this the first time I have ever said, Joe I like your starting 15 :-)

Stheno

Billysays no wrote: »

Seems Joe is lining up for a slugfest in the pack which I think is what we should expect. Then he has freshened up the backline also. So we should be able to slug it out and then we have an interesting backline to make it exciting. Is this the first time I have ever said, Joe I like your starting 15 :-)

Are those pigs I see flying in the sky? :pac:

Billysays no

Stheno wrote: »

Are those pigs I see flying in the sky? :pac:

we'll probably get whipped :-). if I like it I wouldn't hold out much hope :-)

Neil3030

Interestingly we still have a more experienced side out, edging them in caps for both our starters and bench.

Also a combined 6 caps for their 9, 10 and 13 is a huge risk.

Caps: Caps:
15 leRoux 35 15 Payne
14 Pietersen 67 64 Trimble
13 Mapoe 2 21 Henshaw
12 DeAllende 14 2 Olding
11 Mvovo 16 7 Gilroy
10 Jantjies 3 14 Jackson
9 deKlerk 1 48 Murray
8 Vermeulen 36 65 Heaslip
7 Kolisi 14 11 Ruddock
6 Louw 44 24 Henderson
5 duToit 9 0 Roux
4 Etzebeth 45 37 Toner
3 Malherbe 13 6 Furlong
2 Strauss 55 95 Best
1 Mtawarira 76 31 McGrath

Total: 430 440

Replacements: 
16 Mbonambi 0 16 Strauss
17 Nyakane 24 15 Kilcoyne
18 Redelinghuys 3 1 Bealham
19 Mostert 0 39 Ryan
20 Whiteley 4 0 Reidy
21 Paige 3 5 Marmion
22 Steyn 60 30 Madigan
23 Combrinck 0 0 O'Halloran

Total: 94 106

The Rape of Lucretia

Well I've had it with Schmidt.

The sooner he fecks off to NZ the better by the looks of this conservative selection. Absolute definition of conservative it is. Literally. And by literally, I literally mean literally.

Sheesh. If you havent already got a bucketload of caps or were one of his old Leinster cronies, it looks like you have no chance of breaking into the Ireland scene as long as this guy is selecting. Picking on form? Mein Arsch.
Doesnt matter what you do, how many tries you score, how well you play for your club or what trophies you win, if you're not already on the Joe train then he wont pick you.

Experimentation? Player development? Giving younger players a chance to show what they can do? Imaginative selection? Picking players with pace and creativity? Eye to the future and the longer term of the next world cup?
These concepts are simply alien to Schmidt and he has set Irish rugby back decades.

Put him in the position of having a serious chance to win a historic tour series in SA and he bottles it, reverts to type, picks the same staid ageing team we have seen countless times. Effing disgrace.

Sorry. Rant over. But have really had it up to here with this guys negative selections and puke, loosing, rugby.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I had forgotten I'm not going to be able to watch this

Probably won't get near internet to see full highlights before they're taken down either

I'll expect very descriptive posts of every single play. Use drawings to illustrate your points.

Billysays no

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Well I've had it with Schmidt.

The sooner he fecks off to NZ the better by the looks of this conservative selection. Absolute definition of conservative it is. Literally. And by literally, I literally mean literally.

Sheesh. If you havent already got a bucketload of caps or were one of his old Leinster cronies, it looks like you have no chance of breaking into the Ireland scene as long as this guy is selecting. Picking on form? Mein Arsch.
Doesnt matter what you do, how many tries you score, how well you play for your club or what trophies you win, if you're not already on the Joe train then he wont pick you.

Experimentation? Player development? Giving younger players a chance to show what they can do? Imaginative selection? Picking players with pace and creativity? Eye to the future and the longer term of the next world cup?
These concepts are simply alien to Schmidt and he has set Irish rugby back decades.

Put him in the position of having a serious chance to win a historic tour series in SA and he bottles it, reverts to type, picks the same staid ageing team we have seen countless times. Effing disgrace.

Sorry. Rant over. But have really had it up to here with this guys negative selections and puke, loosing, rugby.

you know, I really liked the look of this team, but now that you mention it, your logic is irrefutable. god damn it.

pickarooney

How has Heaslip only 65 caps? In his thirties, ten years in the team, never injured, unchallenged in his position in ages...

Adbrowne

pickarooney wrote: »

How has Heaslip only 65 caps? In his thirties, ten years in the team, never injured, unchallenged in his position in ages...

saturday will be his 87th for ireland, plus 5 for the lions.