Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

Hslaw

Brick has really growing into the forward position. i can honestly say if you put him in goal he would be brilliant there to.

i hope we get another 2-3 years out of him. its mad really it still only seems like the other day he came onto the team

MoPeer

Limerick ahead by one. They are hurling much better in the second half.

MoPeer

Limerick ahead by one. They are hurling much better in the second half. 1-7 to 11pts.

Stacksofwacks

0-13 to 1-7, waterford yet to score in the second half

dzilla

Hslaw wrote: »

Brick has really growing into the forward position. i can honestly say if you put him in goal he would be brilliant there to.

i hope we get another 2-3 years out of him. its mad really it still only seems like the other day he came onto the team

2003 v Limerick, great game never televised I remember he blocked a ball with his head at the end

Hslaw

dzilla wrote: »

2003 v Limerick, great game never televised I remember he blocked a ball with his head at the end

He's a quality player has it all. Like a post above said he always wins the dirty ball. Always very rarely he has a bad game

Stacksofwacks

0-15 to 1-8, 6 mins left

Hslaw

unlucky for our minors. Lets hope the U21's can get a result this year

Stacksofwacks

FT Limerick 0-18 Waterford 1-10

Stacksofwacks

Brave effort, looked good for a while but they seemed to lose their scoring touch in the 2nd half, too many wides.

deiseach

We've had a great run at Minor level, had to end some time. Hard luck to all involved.

Deskjockey

blueflame wrote: »

Many of us carry scars for a greater period than 89, I was there with my father and brothers in 82 in Thurles and 83 in Limerick when we were beaten home and laughed at by many of our own. I have memories of Waterford being on the end of bad beatings by both Limerick and Cork down in Park ui Chaoimh around 85 / 86.
I remember being trounced by Tipperary in a League Semi Final in old Croke Park around 87 one of i think two visits I remember making to the hallowed ground, prior to 1998 Most years we only dreamed of getting past the first round. I remember the heartbreak of Waterford loosing to KK in a league semi-final replay in Thurles, (1981 I think) when Pat McGrath was injured for the replay with a broken wrist and how our hopes wre dashed that day. There was a small hard core of supporters (many of whom are since deceased) that travelled time and again to these games in hope of a victory, envious of Cork and Tipp, Limerick and Clare in Munster all who had their days in the sum, be it in All Ireland, Munster or League glory. In Leinster - Kilkenny, and Wexford were dominant before the emergence of Offaly and even Laois won titles while Galway had their glory days too. Waterford for a county with a proud hurling tradition were cast a drift well at the bottom of the pile, playing third division hurling at one stage. But those who loved hurling never gave up, they built from the bottom up inspired by players like Pat McGrath, John Galvin, Mossy Walsh, Jim Greene, and many others. In latter years we had the likes of Damien Byrne, Shane Ahearne, Stephen Frampton, - they in turn inspired the generation of Flynn, Kelly, Ken, Tony, Dan & Mullane and all the others who restored complete pride to our county and have in turn inspired today's crop.

Since 2002, Waterford Senior Hurlers have triumphed in 4 Munster Finals. 2 National League Finals, a haul past generations could only dream of. We are not running before we can walk, we have been up and running for a along time now. Our team has evolved through the last 17 years since 1998, losing one hero only to find another. Each year our lads were built up by the media and then at the end of every year we were written off as having missed our chance and having to rebuild again.

Little credit has been given to what Waterford have truly achieved since 2002 with lazy journalists giving the impression that it was the one crop of players that did it all. Look again, look back at the teams that won those titles and you will see a constantly evolving team that has stayed at the top table for 17 years constantly competing with top sides such as the great Kilkenny Champions and dare i say it that wonderful Cork side.

Our current crop of talented youngsters are learning to run and they will make many mistakes along the way, but i believe they will learn and they will run and hopefully they will succeed. I will not apologize for celebrating the winning of a national title, and i will not apologize for having hope and belief in the future. I will not accept criticism either from lads who were fortunate enough to have been able to follow great sides in the past and who use throw away comments such as "show me your medals" or "you could get an All Ireland Medal in your change here" - comments like this belittle the achievement of their teams and players.

I am a realist, I ignore comments from the likes of Loughnane and Dempsey and other pundits who will turn on you as quick as lightening. In 2002 Loughnane prior to the Tipp game basically did his usual in his reports, said we had no hope really but he had an outside feeling if we played Ken in one corner and Eoin Mc in the other we might just surprise Tipp. The day after the final, he said he had grown in confidence all week that Waterford would triumph, so don't be surprised that I take what he says with a grain of salt. One journalist in a National newspaper spoke on Monday about how well Austin Gleeson played at centre back and Stephen Bennett at midfield - he obviously didn't even bother to check how the teams lined out never mind watch the game.

Waterford hurling is in a good place at the moment, last year was a serious blip , but those following hurling here knew we had the nucleus of a very good side, they needed time and belief. I was one of the first to offer criticism of Derek McGrath last year and at the start of this year also regarding his tactics, but he has proven me wrong, so far. I believe if he can make minor adjustments to the system he is currently operating to give us more options when we attack, we will be a very difficult side to beat. I believe he deserved the criticism last year because the players were not as well prepared and his comments whether misunderstood or not, did not display confidence in our players ability. This year he has improved this system where we actually defend in numbers rather than just having numbers back, and we use the ball intelligently most of the time. He has players playing with confidence and belief and this is a huge turnaround, and he now thoroughly deserves the plaudits coming his way.

I do not know where we will end this year, but one thing is certain we will end it with silverware in the cabinet and that is a great achievement, one we could only dream of last year. If any of the players actually read this site, congratulations on a fantastic achievement, you have seen the benefits of hard work and honest graft. Time passes fast, think back to how you stood on the terraces and watched past teams, because sure enough it will not be long before you are back there watching the next generation. You have a chance to achieve something real and tangible, not just for yourselves but for those like me who never had the opportunity or ability to achieve these things. Your time is coming, grasp it with both hands and we will celebrate every one of your achievements as if they were our own, and damn the begrudgers. In doing this you will bring pride to your families, to those on the terraces and in the stands, to those who have gone before you and most importantly inspire those who are to come behind you, so that like Ken McGrath and John Mullane last Sunday, you too will be able to celebrate their achievements when you retire.

Roll on the future - "Port Lairge abu"

Mighty post. Well said. I can clearly remember being so so disappointed walking out of the Munster finals in 1982 and 1983 after successive drubbings so it's so fantastic to see Waterford playing in and winning! (imagine...! winning) finals, when for so long we were in the doldrums. Am sending this onto a friend of mine, as this is the best post I've seen here in a while. Pity the minors lost tonight but hopefully they'll be back next year and have better luck

Stacksofwacks

Losing by a point against Tipp and five tonite is certainly no disgrace, with just a bit more composure maybe they could have gone a bit further. Probably lacked 1-2 more scoring forwards to make the difference. but a few more lads with potential there, so the future is still pretty bright

TGV

Wow Jamesie O’Connor on today's papers sounded a bit like the tomkelly post, Clare, Clare etc more or less suggested Waterford have Clare to thank for winning the league....all joking aside they are very quiet at the moment, wonder will they be the surprise team of the year.

Stacksofwacks

Hopefully this is the start of a golden era. Ive been following Waterford since the early 90's and in that time almost all the other top teams had a period or team where they dominated or had a time where they were the best team in the country. Outside of the big 3, Offaly and Clare in the 90's, Limerick had a great team also in that decade and of course Wexford who won an All Ireland in '96. You might say we had a good period in the late 90's/2000's but we were never really considered big favorites going into matches and always seemed to fall well short when it really mattered. We have a team now that are unbelievably hungry and diciplined, aswell as having high levels of skill.They hunt in packs and they feel like a team who is only interested in winning. They have the right manager and gameplan too. Of course it could all go wrong yet, but you feel watching this team that they are going to win rather than maybe they might win.

PTH2009

Disasters from the minors they should of beaten Tipperary in the 1st round. Ah well we had a good run at that level the past few years

On paper our under 21s should make the Munster final but as previous years suggested we just don't shine on that stage. Hopefully john mullane and Tony Browne will find that missing thing with them. We have cork in the quarter final in June down there and if we overcome that it's a semi final with Clare in ennis. No easy run

Our intermediates should be quite good as well but similar to the under 21s we don't shine In that grade. Who's managing them dis year

Deisegodeo

Really disappointing second half from the minors this evening. 6 points up after about 25 minutes they were in control. Then Limerick tagged on a few points before half time and Waterford hit about 4 or 5 wides in a row before the break to leave us 3 points up.

Waterford simply didnt turn up for the second half. Went about 20 minutes without scoring and the only scores we managed in the second half were 3 pointed frees. That says it all. Also hit a lot of wides at crucial times.

I suppose the rain and conditions didnt suit this team and Limerick were bigger and won nearly all the rucks or 50/50 balls in the second half. But Limerick seemed to be first to every ball and showed greater urgency and desire when the game was there to be won in the second half.

Disappointing to see the minors go out so early in the year after the recent success in the grade. Still, they're only young fellas so wouldn't be too critical.

stumblingblock

PTH2009 wrote: »

Disasters from the minors they should of beaten Tipperary in the 1st round. Ah well we had a good run at that level the past few years

On paper our under 21s should make the Munster final but as previous years suggested we just don't shine on that stage. Hopefully john mullane and Tony Browne will find that missing thing with them. We have cork in the quarter final in June down there and if we overcome that it's a semi final with Clare in ennis. No easy run

Our intermediates should be quite good as well but similar to the under 21s we don't shine In that grade. Who's managing them dis year

To say it is a disaster is a bit harsh. This is the first time since 2007 that we’ve gone out of the Munster championship in the first round without winning a game at this grade, so as you say we haven’t had a bad run at it.
Looking at how our development squads and colleges teams from u17 grade down have performed the past year or 2, I think you will see a bit of a lull over the next few years in our minor and underage teams. So expectations shouldn’t be massive.You often see that happen after a period of good underage players have passed. It was inevitable that a county such as ours, which in truth doesn’t have a massive hurling population in camparision to others, will not be strong every year. I didn’t see the game tonight, was at the Tipp game alright, but there wasn’t high expectations of this group anyway. I thought we played very well against Tipp and should have beaten them but I’m not overly surprised at tonight’s result either. We were competitive and that’s all you can ask for at this grade.
Hopefully the good work will continue at underage level, and that being strong at senior will not be a reason to take the eye off the ball at grassroots level. I think all successful senior intercounty teams are based on a foundation of at least one strong underage team with some top quality players, which we have. (Hopefully we can kick on at u21 the next year or 2 aswell) after that you just need the conveyor belt to keep rolling and hope that one or 2 good quality players can keep filtering through every year. That’s all you can ask for and I think we are very much on the right track.

Hard luck to the lads tonight and thanks for your efforts throughout the year.

Brad1234

Listened to Christy O Connor On Newstalk Tuesday night and he also spent the whole 12 minutes talking about Clare... Are they now the La Masia of hurling.. Will they spread the net to show all hurling folk how we should play hurling the right way.. I was bursting with pride when Christy referenced Waterford in the same breath as Clare albeit fleetingly.. If the super powers and inventors of Hurling as we now know it are name dropping you to show their gospel has spread then we are on the right track to maybe compete with them some day or dare I say it surpass their overwhelming success.

Clare throwing us crumbs.. We truly have arrived!!

Giveitfong

Limerick 0-18 Waterford 1-10

The essential fact from tonight’s Munster minor hurling qualifier in Thurles is that, after a jittery first 20 minutes, Limerick were by far the better team, bigger and stronger, better drilled and technically superior to a struggling Déise outfit.

And yet Waterford will look ruefully to their 13 wides (six in the first half, seven in the second) compared with just five for Limerick (one in the second half when the accuracy of their shooting was outstanding). Some of Waterford’s wides were really bad, including two handy enough frees missed by the usually reliable Jack Prendergast (although none was as bad as Peter Casey’s missed 20 metre free for Limerick from straight in front of the goal in the early minutes).

Apart from the wides, Waterford also passed up several scoring opportunities when forwards, coming through on goal with handy tap-over points available, attempted instead to pass inside to team mates. In all three cases where this occurred, the attempted pass was cut out by the Limerick defence.

A feature of this game was the five points from long distance frees (including two 65s) by Limerick goalie and captain Eoghan McNamara. By contrast, Waterford’s goalkeeper Billy Nolan (who otherwise was Waterford’s man of the match) struck two long range frees wide, one in each half.

Limerick started quite well but missed several early chances (including a couple of goal chances). By contrast, the Waterford forwards showed great accuracy with the balls coming their way, and led 0-5 to 0-2 after 15 minutes with some super scores. Waterford at this stage enjoyed their only period of dominance in the game, with Limerick looking very nervous and playing poorly.

However, Waterford’s early accuracy suddenly deserted them, and they struck four bad wides in a row. Yet they then struck what we hoped would be a decisive blow when corner forward Aaron O’Sullivan made a great catch out on the right and cut through on goal. Although the Limerick goalie stopped his first shot, he calmly collected the rebound and slotted to the net, giving Waterford a lead of 1-6 to 0-3 after 21 minutes.
Any hopes that Waterford would drive on from this fillip were dashed, however, as Limerick raised their game considerably to reduce the deficit to just three points, 1-7 to 0-7, by the interval.

Limerick took control of the game after the restart, with Waterford struggling to get decent possession in midfield and in their half forward line. As the game progressed and the scores began to flow (especially from Eoghan McNamara’s impressive freetaking) Limerick’s confidence grew, while Waterford’s went in the opposite direction. Poor striking and decisionmaking undermined confidence, leading to even poorer striking and decisionmaking. They went 18 minutes before Jack Prendergast finally got them on the second half scoreboard with a free, only to be followed by the same player’s dispiriting aforementioned misses in the 22nd and 24th minute.

He was not the only one. Midfielder JP Lucey had an awful miss from in front of the goal and their last chance of getting back into the game went abegging when Eddie Meaney seized on a mistake by a Limerick defender to bring the ball in along the end line, but instead of using his size and pace to take on the goalie, he opted for a shot from an angle which was easily blocked out.

Referee Philip Kelly of Tipperary didn’t help matters with a truly appalling decision to award Limerick an easy free when one of their forwards took an obvious dive, while ignoring two blatant fouls on different Waterford players immediately beforehand. The resultant free put Limerick four points in front and in the clear for the first time.

In the closing minutes, Waterford substitute Mikey Daykin got clean through and was just about to shoot from point blank range when the referee called play back for a free. There is supposed to be an advantage rule but it certainly was not applied in this case, as Billy Nolan’s follow-up free flew inches over the bar. However, a goal at that stage would have made no difference to the end result.

With Waterford unable to get decent possession in the midfield area, and with the game not yet out of reach, I thought the selectors might have brought Billy Nolan out of goal in the closing quarter to try to change things around. In addition, Conor Prunty, another potential ballwinner, spent most of the game at corner back marking Limerick danger man Peter Casey, and should also have been moved further outfield in the later stages of the game, in my view.

Waterford were able to stay in touch due to Limerick’s inability to score goals. While they could have done better with some of the many opportunities they created, credit is due both to goalkeeper Billy Nolan who made several good stops and clearances, and to a beleagured defence which stuck at its task despite being under intense pressure for much of the match. Captain Darragh Lyons did as much as he could around the midfield area. Andy Molumby started well at centre forward but faded out as the Waterford front line became toothless after the change of ends.

Waterford: Billy Nolan (Roanmore, 0-1 free); Darragh Lynch (Passage); Conor Prunty (Abbeyside); Darragh McGrath (Abbeyside); Jordan Henley (Tallow); Darragh Lyons (Dungarvan); Cormac Dunphy (Ballyduff Lower); Calum Lyons (Ballyduff Lower, 0-1); JP Lucey (Shamrocks); Glenn Waters (Dungarvan (0-1); Andy Molumby (Cappoquin, 0-2); Eddie Meaney (De La Salle); Aaron O’Sullivan (Cappoquin, 1-0); Jack Prendergast (Lismore, 0-3, 2 frees); Peter Hogan (Ballygunner, 0-1).

Substitutes: Jake Beecher (Tallow) for McGrath (37 mins); Mikey Daykin (Mount Sion, 0-1, free) for Waters (45 mins); John Kennedy (Ballyduff Lower) for Lucey (48 mins).

blueflame

Tough luck on minors last night. This despite their first round result is I believe quite a strong Limerick side and there is no shame in losing to them. A bit more composure and the result could have been very different. Our lads were a bit light i felt but they had the hurling. If they keep working and develop physically they will give it a rattle at under 21.

I commented yesterday about lazy journalists and commentators and things I have seen and read over the last 24 hours only serve to reinforce this view If one more of them talks about our current side being "backboned" by all those minors from the All Ireland winning side I will scream. Stephen Bennett, Tom Devine and Austin Gleeson came from that side and while some more will almost certainly come through, they can hardly be considered the backbone of the side. (Shane Bennett being the most likely next addition)

From memory (And I am open to correction) you have

Shane Fives, Noel Connors, Maurice Shanahan, Stephen Daniels, all came off our beaten under 21 Munster Final side against Clare in Dungarvan 2009

Stephen O'Keeffe, Philip & Pauric Mahoney, Martin O'Neill, Jake Dillon , Paudie Prendergast, Brian O'Halloran and Darragh Fives all played in our Munster Minor winning side of the same year.

Jamie Barron , Tadgh De Burca Gavin O'Brien , Domnie Breathnach Colin Dunford all followed in subsequent teams .

Apologies if i have left anyone out or misquoted their year as i am sure there are overlaps.

But where do these commentators or journalists get their information? This Waterford side has been built by a succession of highly competitive and moderately successful under age teams from Tony Forristal up. Is it any wonder that genuine hurling folk tend to laugh at their predictions and comments -

blueflame

TTM1 - I believe somewhere on this or another thread you posted that "Davy was Waterford's greatest Manager taking and aging team to an All Ireland Final" - SERIOUSLY - The Waterford Team of 2008 had an average age of 28 - sightly younger than the average age of the KK team at 29 , so how you can determine Waterford to be an aging team I do not know.

Justin McCarthy won 3 Munster titles and I National league title between 2002 and 2007 - introduced as many youngsters as Davy ever did, over that 5 year period and never did we suffer a humiliating defeat under his tenure. Davy on the other hand was in charge of the two most humiliating and embarrassing performances of the last 20 years with the All Ireland Final Against KK and the Munster Final against Tipp.

I have my own views on his management of a super young Clare squad that have a bundle of U-21 all Irelands between them but that is for another discussion - we are talking about his performance with Waterford.

He did not employ a sweeper system with Waterford , his tactics involved creating rucks and running with the ball to draw fouls. The route to the All Ireland Final in 2008 was probably the easiest route Waterford had encountered Antrim, Offaly, Wexford and Tipperary, (who this Waterford team had beaten almost constantly for the previous 5 years).

I cannot comment on your knowledge of Cork hurling, as I do not know enough about it to judge it, but I can say here an now you knowledge of Waterford hurling seems to be exceptionally limited.

dcrosskid

blueflame wrote: »

Tough luck on minors last night. This despite their first round result is I believe quite a strong Limerick side and there is no shame in losing to them. A bit more composure and the result could have been very different. Our lads were a bit light i felt but they had the hurling. If they keep working and develop physically they will give it a rattle at under 21.

I commented yesterday about lazy journalists and commentators and things I have seen and read over the last 24 hours only serve to reinforce this view If one more of them talks about our current side being "backboned" by all those minors from the All Ireland winning side I will scream. Stephen Bennett, Tom Devine and Austin Gleeson came from that side and while some more will almost certainly come through, they can hardly be considered the backbone of the side. (Shane Bennett being the most likely next addition)

From memory (And I am open to correction) you have

Shane Fives, Noel Connors, Maurice Shanahan, Stephen Daniels, all came off our beaten under 21 Munster Final side against Clare in Dungarvan 2009

Stephen O'Keeffe, Philip & Pauric Mahoney, Martin O'Neill, Jake Dillon , Paudie Prendergast, Brian O'Halloran and Darragh Fives all played in our Munster Minor winning side of the same year.

Jamie Barron , Tadgh De Burca Gavin O'Brien , Domnie Breathnach Colin Dunford all followed in subsequent teams .

Apologies if i have left anyone out or misquoted their year as i am sure there are overlaps.

But where do these commentators or journalists get their information? This Waterford side has been built by a succession of highly competitive and moderately successful under age teams from Tony Forristal up. Is it any wonder that genuine hurling folk tend to laugh at their predictions and comments -

Would it be fair to say the team is backboned by the De La Salle teams of 08 & 09. O Keefe in goal, Conners, Coughlan, the two O' Mahoney's, Jake Dillon & Stephan Daniels when he returns.

N20

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Really disappointing second half from the minors this evening. 6 points up after about 25 minutes they were in control. Then Limerick tagged on a few points before half time and Waterford hit about 4 or 5 wides in a row before the break to leave us 3 points up.

Waterford simply didnt turn up for the second half. Went about 20 minutes without scoring and the only scores we managed in the second half were 3 pointed frees. That says it all. Also hit a lot of wides at crucial times.

I suppose the rain and conditions didnt suit this team and Limerick were bigger and won nearly all the rucks or 50/50 balls in the second half. But Limerick seemed to be first to every ball and showed greater urgency and desire when the game was there to be won in the second half.

Disappointing to see the minors go out so early in the year after the recent success in the grade. Still, they're only young fellas so wouldn't be too critical.

unlucky - physically Limerick bigger with exception of yer full back who was huge man - thought goalie was very good, brave and clever under pressure with a serious puck out

blueflame

dcrosskid wrote: »

Would it be fair to say the team is backboned by the De La Salle teams of 08 & 09. O Keefe in goal, Conners, Coughlan, the two O' Mahoney's, Jake Dillon & Stephan Daniels when he returns.

While accepting there is a good contingent, would feel that this is really a "team" and would be slow to say back-boned by any one other team. The point i have been making is about lazy journalism. We have had a succession of good minor side up to the All Ireland winning side and all of a sudden it is this side is why we are now on the brink of potential success. Lads like O'Halloran, Dunford, De Burca, Barron, Shane & Darragh Fives, Stephen & Shane Bennett are becoming more prominent. Don;t get me wrong we have always found great players in the smaller clubs such as Pat Bennett, Jimmy Beresford, Eoin Murphy & The Brick, but it is the underage structures and tremendous work that is being done there that is bringing these lads together on a regular basis. Journalists and Pundits seem to ignore this, opting instead for the quick and easy answer.

blueflame

N20 wrote: »

unlucky - physically Limerick bigger with exception of yer full back who was huge man - thought goalie was very good, brave and clever under pressure with a serious puck out

I missed the game last night because of work but based on reports would agree. Against Tipp we looked lightweight and were at a disadvantage physically, but in fairness we were very competitive. Physicality at minor can be a very big factor and believe this team can improve as they develop more.

Prunty at full back is not just a big man but a fine hurler and great prospect. Billy Nolan is an excellent outfield player and is more a stand in goal keeper, fairly sure he is minor again next year.

closeline

Anyone have a list of the whole panel that Waterford togged last Sunday?

Giveitfong

closeline wrote: »

Anyone have a list of the whole panel that Waterford togged last Sunday?

Just as the starting team named in the match programme is never the same as the team that actually starts, the list of substitutes in the programme may not be the same as the actual list of substitutes given to the referee.

For what it is worth, Maurice Shanahan and Stephen Bennett were listed as substitutes but started instead of Tom Devine and Brian O'Halloran who were listed as starters in the programme and who both came on as subs. The other subs who came on were Shane O'Sullivan, Martin O'Neill and Gavin O'Brien. The remaining subs listed were Iggy O'Regan, Shane McNulty, Stephen Daniels (looking very strong and fit), Paudie Prendergast, Eddie Barrett and Donie Breathnach.

Waterford actually had about 35 players togged out and participating in the prematch exercises. Cork had just the match 26 togged. I think this is good practice on the part of the Waterford management, as it emphasises that the unlisted players are all part of the panel and not just fodder for practice matches at training.

dcrosskid

blueflame wrote: »

While accepting there is a good contingent, would feel that this is really a "team" and would be slow to say back-boned by any one other team. The point i have been making is about lazy journalism. We have had a succession of good minor side up to the All Ireland winning side and all of a sudden it is this side is why we are now on the brink of potential success. Lads like O'Halloran, Dunford, De Burca, Barron, Shane & Darragh Fives, Stephen & Shane Bennett are becoming more prominent. Don;t get me wrong we have always found great players in the smaller clubs such as Pat Bennett, Jimmy Beresford, Eoin Murphy & The Brick, but it is the underage structures and tremendous work that is being done there that is bringing these lads together on a regular basis. Journalists and Pundits seem to ignore this, opting instead for the quick and easy answer.

That's fair enough. I would agree that saying a team is back-boned by an underage team from a few years previously is more often than not a lazy phrase for a journalist to use, especially in this case as the minor side has only a few players to come through so far.

closeline

Giveitfong wrote: »

Just as the starting team named in the match programme is never the same as the team that actually starts, the list of substitutes in the programme may not be the same as the actual list of substitutes given to the referee.

For what it is worth, Maurice Shanahan and Stephen Bennett were listed as substitutes but started instead of Tom Devine and Brian O'Halloran who were listed as starters in the programme and who both came on as subs. The other subs who came on were Shane O'Sullivan, Martin O'Neill and Gavin O'Brien. The remaining subs listed were Iggy O'Regan, Shane McNulty, Stephen Daniels (looking very strong and fit), Paudie Prendergast, Eddie Barrett and Donie Breathnach.

Waterford actually had about 35 players togged out and participating in the prematch exercises. Cork had just the match 26 togged. I think this is good practice on the part of the Waterford management, as it emphasises that the unlisted players are all part of the panel and not just fodder for practice matches at training.

Yes indeed a very good idea by the management. Will Daniels come into the team? Any sign of Ray Barry or Dara Fives?