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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***
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Who said that? (etc)0
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The remarkable thing about some of the Cork lads on here - not all of them yadda yadda yadda - is not that they think the team were sent out with the intention of sussing out Waterford's game plan in advance of the Championship or that players were playing within themselves, but that they seem to be okay with this.0
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The remarkable thing about some of the Cork lads on here - not all of them yadda yadda yadda - is not that they think the team were sent out with the intention of sussing out Waterford's game plan in advance of the Championship or that players were playing within themselves, but that they seem to be okay with this.
Exactly i'd be sickened and ashamed if i thought Waterford threw a game. Maybe a certain Cork poster doesn't want to see the truth for what it is0 -
Even the idea that JBM the Great told a Cork team to go out and try and find the chinks in the armour of Waterford . . . if Gerald McCarthy had tried that Pana would be ablaze.0
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To be fair, I don't think there's a single poster on the Cork thread who would back us to win an All-Ireland. That's the goal, obviously, but there's a lot of realism about this Cork team in general.
However, Waterford posters are reading an awful lot into this Cork team after just one game. For whatever reason Cork weren't at the required intensity. That might be down to design as TTM suggests or they were just flat on the day. There's no doubt that come June they will be at the required pace and in championship, this team for all their failings are rarely done for work rate and passion.
They'll have a game plan for Waterford the next day. I would venture there'll be a lot of positional switches from the normal team as was largely on show Sunday to try and work shooters into space.
Waterford fans are savouring the victory and rightly so, but I really don't think this game will bear any real resemblance on the next day.
I can't agree there I'm afraid. The majority of Waterford posters have already acknowledged June is another day. We should be going in confident, that's a different matter. I see on the Cork thread that there are mixed views though there are several who are saying that ye should win the next day but ye need to be looking beyond Waterford and thinking about all-irelands. And yet I don't see TTM criticising them for getting carried away.
Its not one game, they hammered Wexford, Galway, beat Tipp and hammered Cork. That's two all Ireland semi finalists and the team that bet us last year plus another division 1 team.
I think the next day is a 50/50 game. But to be fair now, if Tipp had won the league as expected theyd be talking about relishing taking on Kilkenny again. If Cork had won Sunday ye would certainly be looking beyond June. So I think the consensus measured approach that we are back as a team that can be contenders as opposed to this perennial transition spanning 7 years is fair enough. Contenders doesn't mean you'll win an all Ireland but your prospects warrant respect.
Finally, Tomas Mul said on RTE radio the day after the Limerick match "This Waterford team is coming sooner than people think, I think they'll be a force this year", Des said "That's high praise" to which Daly said "Yeah but look who Cork are playing in championship". Queue laughter. Waterford then won their next 7 games in a row. Where were the commentators denouncing the Waterford media hype then, eh? Tomas, if you are reading this, keep taking up Waterford.
As for Clare, well they've lost about a 6th of their panel in the last year so Id be happy to ignore their policies on how you manage a team. Tweet away lads. (Id say I could have dug up a few of Nashs tweets for comparison, but I won't bother)0 -
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I haven't been reading this thread since Sunday but I read a minute ago 10 pages back that there are people coming into the thread trying belittle Waterfords achievement. All I can say is laugh at them.
I earmarked this Waterford team about 4 year ago when you had an awesome u21 outfit. Now you've brought on your minor from more recently. You guys are sh ithot and there isn't a county outside of my own county Limerick that I'd love to see win the A I. Your skill and fitness is unrivaled. You guys are the real deal.0 -
Many of us carry scars for a greater period than 89, I was there with my father and brothers in 82 in Thurles and 83 in Limerick when we were beaten home and laughed at by many of our own. I have memories of Waterford being on the end of bad beatings by both Limerick and Cork down in Park ui Chaoimh around 85 / 86.
I remember being trounced by Tipperary in a League Semi Final in old Croke Park around 87 one of i think two visits I remember making to the hallowed ground, prior to 1998 Most years we only dreamed of getting past the first round. I remember the heartbreak of Waterford loosing to KK in a league semi-final replay in Thurles, (1981 I think) when Pat McGrath was injured for the replay with a broken wrist and how our hopes wre dashed that day. There was a small hard core of supporters (many of whom are since deceased) that travelled time and again to these games in hope of a victory, envious of Cork and Tipp, Limerick and Clare in Munster all who had their days in the sum, be it in All Ireland, Munster or League glory. In Leinster - Kilkenny, and Wexford were dominant before the emergence of Offaly and even Laois won titles while Galway had their glory days too. Waterford for a county with a proud hurling tradition were cast a drift well at the bottom of the pile, playing third division hurling at one stage. But those who loved hurling never gave up, they built from the bottom up inspired by players like Pat McGrath, John Galvin, Mossy Walsh, Jim Greene, and many others. In latter years we had the likes of Damien Byrne, Shane Ahearne, Stephen Frampton, - they in turn inspired the generation of Flynn, Kelly, Ken, Tony, Dan & Mullane and all the others who restored complete pride to our county and have in turn inspired today's crop.
Since 2002, Waterford Senior Hurlers have triumphed in 4 Munster Finals. 2 National League Finals, a haul past generations could only dream of. We are not running before we can walk, we have been up and running for a along time now. Our team has evolved through the last 17 years since 1998, losing one hero only to find another. Each year our lads were built up by the media and then at the end of every year we were written off as having missed our chance and having to rebuild again.
Little credit has been given to what Waterford have truly achieved since 2002 with lazy journalists giving the impression that it was the one crop of players that did it all. Look again, look back at the teams that won those titles and you will see a constantly evolving team that has stayed at the top table for 17 years constantly competing with top sides such as the great Kilkenny Champions and dare i say it that wonderful Cork side.
Our current crop of talented youngsters are learning to run and they will make many mistakes along the way, but i believe they will learn and they will run and hopefully they will succeed. I will not apologize for celebrating the winning of a national title, and i will not apologize for having hope and belief in the future. I will not accept criticism either from lads who were fortunate enough to have been able to follow great sides in the past and who use throw away comments such as "show me your medals" or "you could get an All Ireland Medal in your change here" - comments like this belittle the achievement of their teams and players.
I am a realist, I ignore comments from the likes of Loughnane and Dempsey and other pundits who will turn on you as quick as lightening. In 2002 Loughnane prior to the Tipp game basically did his usual in his reports, said we had no hope really but he had an outside feeling if we played Ken in one corner and Eoin Mc in the other we might just surprise Tipp. The day after the final, he said he had grown in confidence all week that Waterford would triumph, so don't be surprised that I take what he says with a grain of salt. One journalist in a National newspaper spoke on Monday about how well Austin Gleeson played at centre back and Stephen Bennett at midfield - he obviously didn't even bother to check how the teams lined out never mind watch the game.
Waterford hurling is in a good place at the moment, last year was a serious blip , but those following hurling here knew we had the nucleus of a very good side, they needed time and belief. I was one of the first to offer criticism of Derek McGrath last year and at the start of this year also regarding his tactics, but he has proven me wrong, so far. I believe if he can make minor adjustments to the system he is currently operating to give us more options when we attack, we will be a very difficult side to beat. I believe he deserved the criticism last year because the players were not as well prepared and his comments whether misunderstood or not, did not display confidence in our players ability. This year he has improved this system where we actually defend in numbers rather than just having numbers back, and we use the ball intelligently most of the time. He has players playing with confidence and belief and this is a huge turnaround, and he now thoroughly deserves the plaudits coming his way.
I do not know where we will end this year, but one thing is certain we will end it with silverware in the cabinet and that is a great achievement, one we could only dream of last year. If any of the players actually read this site, congratulations on a fantastic achievement, you have seen the benefits of hard work and honest graft. Time passes fast, think back to how you stood on the terraces and watched past teams, because sure enough it will not be long before you are back there watching the next generation. You have a chance to achieve something real and tangible, not just for yourselves but for those like me who never had the opportunity or ability to achieve these things. Your time is coming, grasp it with both hands and we will celebrate every one of your achievements as if they were our own, and damn the begrudgers. In doing this you will bring pride to your families, to those on the terraces and in the stands, to those who have gone before you and most importantly inspire those who are to come behind you, so that like Ken McGrath and John Mullane last Sunday, you too will be able to celebrate their achievements when you retire.
Roll on the future - "Port Lairge abu"0 -
Lads, how many times did ye see Colin Dunford gain possession in the middle of the field Sunday, take on his man and beat him every time. I can't get over how fast this guy is, I know his shooting needs to improve, but this is a major benefit to have on our team. He'll learn from experience, I know some people would prefer to have him in the 2 man full forward line, but I think he's better to have out the field, he will be able to get gain possession, beat his man and hit a score or hit a low ball into our 2 man full forward line. Imagine he's running through and you have Bennett and Maurice inside....just once they make the run, Dunford can pick out the pass and that's your score
Also, Philip Mahony's flick away from Patrick Horgan in the first half, I can't remember how it came about...but I just remember Mahony's flick away at the last second...top class. He's having some year great for the lad after what happened last year0 -
Great post, blueflame. I must confess that I had lost hope after last year. Not because of the loss to Wexford, which actually ticked a lot of boxes for what I hope from Waterford. They were several points worse than Wexford but they fought the good fight and never stopped trying until the end. It was great just to be part of a fine tussle on a summer’s day in front of an enthusiastic crowd. At the risk of sounding like a croppy (in general, not a cut at Wexford folk), I even enjoyed the thought that the Sky boyos were on hand to see it. No, what got to me was the Under-21 loss to Cork. That was a disaster and if that was what the future had in store then we were in serious trouble. It looks like I couldn’t have been more wrong (wouldn’t be the first time). I idolised so many Waterford players through the years – even now I still can’t quite credit that my dad is friends with Mossy Walsh, as if Mossy was some unapproachable god come down from Mount Olympus – and I’m energised by the prospect of my son idolising the new crop. I took a Vine - is that the right lingo? - of the TG4 cameras panning past a young fella on the Thurles pitch after the game and I received a comment that said young fella was refusing to take off his Waterford shirt and occasionally calling himself John Mullane. I’ve spent way too much time in the last few days moaning online about trolls when away from the internet I’ve been so ridiculously happy. I’m not going to say it doesn’t matter if we don’t win the All-Ireland in the future, of course it matters. But I’m looking forward to the next few years following our teams and am grateful to those whose efforts make it possible.
Right, taking the Andy Dufresne hat off now.0 -
Thats why hes better in the full forward line. His shooting is much better then his ability to pick out a man. Plus Maurice is always better in the half forward line where he can drift around and get involved. Being outnumbered in full forward doesnt suit himDeise_2012 wrote: »Lads, how many times did ye see Colin Dunford gain possession in the middle of the field Sunday, take on his man and beat him every time. I can't get over how fast this guy is, I know his shooting needs to improve, but this is a major benefit to have on our team. He'll learn from experience, I know some people would prefer to have him in the 2 man full forward line, but I think he's better to have out the field, he will be able to get gain possession, beat his man and hit a score or hit a low ball into our 2 man full forward line. Imagine he's running through and you have Bennett and Maurice inside....just once they make the run, Dunford can pick out the pass and that's your score0 -
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Deise_2012 wrote: »Lads, how many times did ye see Colin Dunford gain possession in the middle of the field Sunday, take on his man and beat him every time. I can't get over how fast this guy is, I know his shooting needs to improve, but this is a major benefit to have on our team. He'll learn from experience, I know some people would prefer to have him in the 2 man full forward line, but I think he's better to have out the field, he will be able to get gain possession, beat his man and hit a score or hit a low ball into our 2 man full forward line. Imagine he's running through and you have Bennett and Maurice inside....just once they make the run, Dunford can pick out the pass and that's your score
Also, Philip Mahony's flick away from Patrick Horgan in the first half, I can't remember how it came about...but I just remember Mahony's flick away at the last second...top class. He's having some year great for the lad after what happened last year
The problem is he does both roles excellently, would be great to have him out around the middle and in the full forward line.0 -
Great post, blueflame. I must confess that I had lost hope after last year. Not because of the loss to Wexford, which actually ticked a lot of boxes for what I hope from Waterford. They were several points worse than Wexford but they fought the good fight and never stopped trying until the end. It was great just to be part of a fine tussle on a summer’s day in front of an enthusiastic crowd. At the risk of sounding like a croppy (in general, not a cut at Wexford folk), I even enjoyed the thought that the Sky boyos were on hand to see it. No, what got to me was the Under-21 loss to Cork. That was a disaster and if that was what the future had in store then we were in serious trouble. It looks like I couldn’t have been more wrong (wouldn’t be the first time). I idolised so many Waterford players through the years – even now I still can’t quite credit that my dad is friends with Mossy Walsh, as if Mossy was some unapproachable god come down from Mount Olympus – and I’m energised by the prospect of my son idolising the new crop. I took a Vine - is that the right lingo? - of the TG4 cameras panning past a young fella on the Thurles pitch after the game and I received a comment that said young fella was refusing to take off his Waterford shirt and occasionally calling himself John Mullane. I’ve spent way too much time in the last few days moaning online about trolls when away from the internet I’ve been so ridiculously happy. I’m not going to say it doesn’t matter if we don’t win the All-Ireland in the future, of course it matters. But I’m looking forward to the next few years following our teams and am grateful to those whose efforts make it possible.
Right, taking the Andy Dufresne hat off now.
Too right - we may not have had success or medals, but it did not stop us having heroes0 -
Some of us Waterford supporters have been to Hell - to us this is a golden age,
On Sunday our team was made up players from Tourin, clashmore, Colligan, ballysaggart and modeligo.... As well as the better known clubs, what a day for those clubs, what a return they have gotten from the young men that have represented them at county level in recent years, that is the legacy of the breakthrough team, the standard and participation levels in both underage Hurling and Camogie across the county have increased massively, thats why we are going nowhere - the foundation is stronger then ever0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »The problem is he does both roles excellently, would be great to have him out around the middle and in the full forward line.
I think he's the forward that our current system suits the best. We need someone like him drifting out to midfield because he has the work rate, speed and power to bring the ball back up to the forward line within shooting distance. He has really been impressing me of late.
Something we definitely need to work on is the decision making regarding what to do with the ball when we gain possesion in the half back line/midfield which is a lot. In general this has been pretty good but a lot of ball is being knocked up to Maurice with three men on him and he can't be expected to win any more than one in four balls that way (I think he is doing very well all things considred). I'd rather see us running at their defence until we have better numbers up there or attempting long range points (which we have the personell in in Moran, Barron, Gleason etc) than hitting ball to lads that are outnumbered. Because we are dominating posession so much against teams we are getting away with all the aimless balls because we are still able to score enough of them.
I still can't make my mind up between Bennett, Dillon, O'Halloran or Devine. O'Halloran has been great as an impact sub because he is lively when he comes on and is a bit of a nuisance. The problem is the quality of ball delivered to him needs to be of very good quality because if he has to compete for a ball he just gets shoved off it. I think bennett is struggling to get involved in games and may need another year to develop while Dillon is probably doing a lot of thankless work that I'm not noticing as much. I believe he made the most tackles of any of our forwards which obviously means he is working very hard defensively. Devine is getting stonger with each game and I think he might get a call up over bennett the next day.
One further observation. Some commentators are saying that we will lose our intensity adavantage come championship but i was thinking that the vast majority of our players don't have jobs. They can basically go pro for the Summer if they want whcih most teams can't.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I can't agree there I'm afraid. The majority of Waterford posters have already acknowledged June is another day. We should be going in confident, that's a different matter. I see on the Cork thread that there are mixed views though there are several who are saying that ye should win the next day but ye need to be looking beyond Waterford and thinking about all-irelands. And yet I don't see TTM criticising them for getting carried away.
Its not one game, they hammered Wexford, Galway, beat Tipp and hammered Cork. That's two all Ireland semi finalists and the team that bet us last year plus another division 1 team.
I think the next day is a 50/50 game. But to be fair now, if Tipp had won the league as expected theyd be talking about relishing taking on Kilkenny again. If Cork had won Sunday ye would certainly be looking beyond June. So I think the consensus measured approach that we are back as a team that can be contenders as opposed to this perennial transition spanning 7 years is fair enough. Contenders doesn't mean you'll win an all Ireland but your prospects warrant respect.
Finally, Tomas Mul said on RTE radio the day after the Limerick match "This Waterford team is coming sooner than people think, I think they'll be a force this year", Des said "That's high praise" to which Daly said "Yeah but look who Cork are playing in championship". Queue laughter. Waterford then won their next 7 games in a row. Where were the commentators denouncing the Waterford media hype then, eh? Tomas, if you are reading this, keep taking up Waterford.
As for Clare, well they've lost about a 6th of their panel in the last year so Id be happy to ignore their policies on how you manage a team. Tweet away lads. (Id say I could have dug up a few of Nashs tweets for comparison, but I won't bother)
I think you're arguing something different there, to be fair. I didn't say anything about the Waterford team or hype around them, I think they deserve serious plaudits as I've said earlier in the thread.
I was making the point there's an awful lot of judgement about Cork based on one game. There's been words like gutless, soft etc. thrown about here. In fairness to this team, while they aren't the best group of hurlers we've ever had, this team has shown incredible heart, spirit and work rate the last 2 or 3 years in championship and I'm sure will again in June.
That wasn't there Sunday (for whatever reason, people have their own views) and I think that, along with a tactical plan which seemed to be lacking, it will change the dynamic of the game.
That's in no way taking away from last Sunday or saying that Cork are any sort of favourites, Waterford will improve too I'm sure. But I think it does make last Sunday a little redundant in terms of predicting what's going to happen in June.
I've made it clear previously both here and on the Cork thread that I don't think there'll be much between us in June.0 -
Would agree with that synopsis Figsy32 - Cork were quite poor on Sunday for whatever reason, a much of it to do with having to adjust to playing against a system that denied them room. The majority of Waterford folk know full well the next day is a different day, as every game is. Events unfold in a game that can change the pattern entirely, but much of the reaction on here is based upon the constant putting down of what these lads have achieved. Comments like it is only the league, and everyone else was flat and everyone else is behind Waterford in terms of fitness, and commitment - Waterford can only play what is put in front of them on any given day.
I think what the majority are trying to emphasise is that since our Hurling revival in 1998 after years in the doldrums, there has been very little between Waterford and Cork on a head to head basis. Obviously Cork achieved more in terms of silverware, but in the one to one match ups there as nothing between the sides until last years replay and all of a sudden "Cork were back and Waterford were gone" - well last Sunday saw something of a reverse, and if i am honest I expect the truth to be that there is not very much between the sides again. I expect a real battle the next day, a battle that could go either way and i think in the end will be a lot tighter with a small winning margin for either team. And whoever looses i would not rule out them returning with venom at a later stage of the championship. What has riled people here is the notion that Cork literally threw the game and that is rubbish. Waterford were meeting Cork for the first time since last years drubbing and another beating for Waterford would have set us back no end, and would have been much more suited to Cork cause than loosing and hoping for a backlash - I do not believe that they would be showing us that much respect.
Let the battle resume in June0 -
Bast of Luck to Waterford Minors tonight - still hope to make it to Thurles, but may not due to work - anyone in attendance might keep us posts on here with score in case.0
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From what I am hearing Stephen Daniels is flying it, from when he came into the team until his injury he was one of most consistent players - quite under the radar nationally but he was excellent.
Harsh I know on the 15 from Sunday but our best 15 includes Daniels and Dara Fives - but who could they come in for?
Daniels would probably have made the full back slot his own by now without the injury so I would like to see him there eventually, D Fives could play the same role as TdeB, or Moran but you cant obviously move either of them so I would play him Wing back instead of Gleeson and move Gleeson up wing instead of Dillon, have Gleeson withdrawn back around midfield and let him drive forward on one side with Dunford on the other doing as he is doing now.
O'Hallorsn is worth his place but he is the perfect impact replacement for Dunford when he tires.
Add in Tom Devine and Shane Bennett in reserve (or even to start) and we have a serious good look to the panel.0 -
When you think over the next year or so we could have a front 8 of Barron, Moran, Gleeson, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, O'Halloran, Dunford, Devine, Patrick Curran, Maurice, Paudie M... Along with more coming through... Lots of options0
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TyrionPower wrote: »move Gleeson up wing instead of Dillon,
In fairness you musn't have seen the stats from the game. Dillon made a total of 9 tackles in the game - high for a forward. The six Cork forwards who started made a grand total of 12 tackles between them.
IMO Dillon was one of the main reasons we won so much turn-over ball in scoreable positions.0 -
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In fairness you musn't have seen the stats from the game. Dillon made a total of 9 tackles in the game - high for a forward. The six Cork forwards who started made a grand total of 12 tackles between them.
IMO Dillon was one of the main reasons we won so much turn-over ball in scoreable positions.
No I did see that stat, and he worked his socks off, that's why I said it was harsh on the 15 on Sunday, just my opinion that you have to have Daniels and D fines in their if fit0 -
TyrionPower wrote: »When you think over the next year or so we could have a front 8 of Barron, Moran, Gleeson, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, O'Halloran, Dunford, Devine, Patrick Curran, Maurice, Paudie M... Along with more coming through... Lots of options
Now that would be something ... a front 8 of 11+ players :P0 -
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*groan* Talk of fellas 'flying in training'. That's enough to bring a man back down to earth
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TyrionPower wrote: »When you think over the next year or so we could have a front 8 of Barron, Moran, Gleeson, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, O'Halloran, Dunford, Devine, Patrick Curran, Maurice, Paudie M... Along with more coming through... Lots of options
I wonder will brick stay around next year he will only be 33 next year I think0 -
I wonder will brick stay around next year he will only be 33 next year I think
He's irreplaceable in the half forward line at the moment for us. We have nobody else to do what he does. Every time the ball goes near him it sticks. The deeper players then can time their runs off him because they know the pop pass is coming. And the amount of times he comes out of a 4 or 5 man ruck with the ball is insane
Picks of a score or 2 a game too!0 -
Live commentary of the minor match on Live95 fm stream, cant post the link0
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Stacksofwacks wrote: »Live commentary of the minor match on Live95 fm stream, cant post the link
http://live95fm.info/extra/0 -
Ahead 0-4 to 0-1 after 12 mins0
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Aaron o sullivan goal, 1-5 to 0-30
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