Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

crottys lake

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I'm beginning to wonder are dealing with Derek McGrath or Kim Jung An of north Korea the way some of ye are going on.

Kim Jung Un makes more sense than Fanning.

Hammer Archer

Mod: Can I remind posters (for the umpteenth time) to read the mod note in post #1 of the thread before posting.

whiteandblue

Big ball tonight! Best of luck to the under 21 footballers tonight, up against an unbelievably strong Kerry side who have won last 3 minors but hope they can keep the score down and be competitive. Best of luck again!

Django99

Jesus Christ Joe.ie has never covered itself in glory but that has to be one of the worst articles I have ever read. It honestly looks like it could be satire.

Does Derek McGrath think Kilkenny take that attitude for the league? Does he think Brian Cody trying to win the league ever year since 1998 has been a mistake? Why does the writer (couldn't call him a journalist) think that this is so logical and genius?

Being in 1A is a clear advantage for every team. If a manager is unable to blood players that's his own fault.

I'm trying to figure out what he's actually saying though that the writer could interpret it as being so profound. Is he saying teams shouldn't try to win the league? Is he saying Galway deliberately lost to Wexford so they wouldn't be promoted? Is he saying he'd prefer to be in 1B?

Deise189

whiteandblue wrote: »

Big ball tonight! Best of luck to the under 21 footballers tonight, up against an unbelievably strong Kerry side who have won last 3 minors but hope they can keep the score down and be competitive. Best of luck again!

Whatever about Cheltenham a safe bet would be lumping on Kerry with the handicap. Waterford have had 3 training sessions leading up to it and Conor gleeson playing mid field hasn't trained with them and took part in a heavy fitness training session with the hurlers last night. Fair play to him for even togging out. Pity we cant get enough interest in the football to give it a go at this level. I think this team was pretty good at minor level if I remember correctly.

culbaire

crottys lake wrote: »

Kim Jung Un makes more sense than Fanning.

You dont like the truth do you?

3ships

You can't handle the truth

whiteandblue

Deise189 wrote: »

Whatever about Cheltenham a safe bet would be lumping on Kerry with the handicap. Waterford have had 3 training sessions leading up to it and Conor gleeson playing mid field hasn't trained with them and took part in a heavy fitness training session with the hurlers last night. Fair play to him for even togging out. Pity we cant get enough interest in the football to give it a go at this level. I think this team was pretty good at minor level if I remember correctly.

There is handicap betting on Paddy Power, Kerry -14 is evens

KevIRL

whiteandblue wrote: »

There is handicap betting on Paddy Power, Kerry -14 is evens

-18 10/11 now

enoughtaken

Deise189 wrote: »

Whatever about Cheltenham a safe bet would be lumping on Kerry with the handicap. Waterford have had 3 training sessions leading up to it and Conor gleeson playing mid field hasn't trained with them and took part in a heavy fitness training session with the hurlers last night. Fair play to him for even togging out. Pity we cant get enough interest in the football to give it a go at this level. I think this team was pretty good at minor level if I remember correctly.

Agree. Tom Flynn the Waterford manager was on WLR last Thursday. Management team only in place 3 weeks. Kerry played their u21 team in mc grath cup and I think starting training last November.

enoughtaken

enoughtaken wrote: »

Agree. Tom Flynn the Waterford manager was on WLR last Thursday. Management team only in place 3 weeks. Kerry played their u21 team in mc grath cup and I think starting training last November.

EirGrid u 21 Football S/Final
26mins 1st Half
Waterford: 0-1(1)
Kerry: 1-11(14)

mickmackmcgoo

enoughtaken wrote:

Agree. Tom Flynn the Waterford manager was on WLR last Thursday. Management team only in place 3 weeks. Kerry played their u21 team in mc grath cup and I think starting training last November.

Fair play to those who are playing but if the county board are not going to put resources into it and taking it seriously then should we just withdraw from under age football or would that make it worse ?

KevIRL

whiteandblue wrote: »

There is handicap betting on Paddy Power, Kerry -14 is evens

14 point win for Kerry. Good week for the bookies continues

PTH2009

Ft Wat 0-7- Kerry 1-18

Fair play to the lads playing and the management team. Stupid carry on by the county board throwing together a management team 3 weeks before we play our game. Would not be surprised if they organised no post match meal for the players

We will really think about our footballing future, do we do a kilkenny on it and not enter a team ??

enoughtaken

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

enoughtaken wrote:

Agree. Tom Flynn the Waterford manager was on WLR last Thursday. Management team only in place 3 weeks. Kerry played their u21 team in mc grath cup and I think starting training last November.

Fair play to those who are playing but if the county board are not going to put resources into it and taking it seriously then should we just withdraw from under age football or would that make it worse ?

We need to look at the Tipp or Clare model and see how they have gone so far ahead of us.

hurler on de ditch

DiscoStew wrote: »

I was a bit disappointed that it was Conor replaced Jamie. Conor has had a few games now and is definitely more comfortable in the backs. He did switch to wing back in the second half with Moran and Dunford midfield until Dunford was replace.
I would have preferred to see Mikey Kearney tried for Barron's replacement. He would have a similar style of play.
Anybody know what's Colm Roches situation? He hasn't featured on the bench even this year has he? DJ Foran returned to the panel and got no league game time. I wouldn't see him as a starter come championship but surely when we were in dire straights trying to win a ball all game his aerial ability could have been put to good use.

that might have been a positive ,but their is not a positive bone in his body ,we were well beat,a man down,8 points or so down and still played TDB as a spare man ,WTF ,Mc Grath ,well enough said about him the better

whiteandblue

PTH2009 wrote: »

Ft Wat 0-7- Kerry 1-18

Fair play to the lads playing and the management team. Stupid carry on by the county board throwing together a management team 3 weeks before we play our game. Would not be surprised if they organised no post match meal for the players

We will really think about our footballing future, do we do a kilkenny on it and not enter a team ??

Was in there last night and having been involved with football teams before, I feel that the notion of us pulling out would be a disgrace.

The fact is that we don't have our best players playing on county teams as they have preference for hurling or just decide not to play but the players that played last night (generally) gave it everything and 14 points is no way a disgrace as this is an exceptional Kerry team. Kilkenny were beaten at minor level by 71 points last year against the mighty Wexford who lost their next game!

Players like Conor Prunty, Darragh Lyons, Jack, Guiry, Patrick Curran, Colm Roche, Jack Mullaney and a few more would have made the side stronger but what I feel that is between minor and under 21, a lot of these players don't even play football with their clubs and the set up by our county board doesn't allow for the development of players from minor up. I remember Patrick Curran getting a hat trick in a county minor A football final but don't know if he has played a game since.

Fair play to those involved last night, they never gave in and in no way disgraced themselves and they showed pride and passion in the jersey, the same as any hurling team in the county would but won't get the credit.

Giveitfong

Derek McGrath’s term in charge of Waterford’s hurlers has reached a new low, not because of his charge’s feeble non-performance against Cork on Sunday, but because of his attempt on WLR radio on Monday to attribute the defeat to the absence of Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony from the team.

We have become accustomed to McGrath’s excuses for poor Waterford showings, which never focus on his own inept management. In the Irish Examiner on Monday morning, he was saying that Cork have “the best sextet of forwards in the country”, which of course is utter rubbish. In his lengthy interview in the same paper at the end of January, he said exactly the same thing about Tipperary: “Tipp’s forward sextet is the best in the country”. The only difference between these two almost identical statements is the name of the county in question. Will he be saying the same about Clare in two weeks time?

The Waterford team which played last Sunday included seven All-Stars, nine players with All-Ireland Colleges medals and six players with All-Ireland minor and under-21 medals. Cork had three All-Stars and nobody with any kind of All-Ireland medal (except maybe intermediate). And they beat us because we didn’t have Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony in the team? We didn’t have them when we beat Dublin last week, and they beat Cork out the gate down in Páirc Uí Rinn.

I expect anyone who saw last Sunday’s game would be more likely to point the finger at Waterford’s lack of intensity compared with Cork’s level of commitment, and Waterford’s clueless stone-age hurling compared with Cork’s structured and constructive approach. The statistics tell it all. Cork won thirteen rucks to Waterford’s three, and fourteen breaking balls to Waterford’s six.

Derek McGrath’s inability to manage games from the sideline and react to on-field developments was again in evidence. Cork brought Luke Meade out into midfield where he cleaned up winning breaking ball, gaining 15 possessions in the process. Nobody was detailed to place tabs on him. In the second half, playing against the wind, Cork planted Bill Cooper out near the righthand touchline and fed him pass after pass out of defence. He got an extraordinary 12 possessions in the second half alone (21 in total), yet nobody was detailed to mark him.

In the first half, when Waterford were playing against the wind, Stephen O’Keeffe hit every one of his 19 puckouts long. Cork won 13 of them. Waterford had no Plan B (such as hitting short or directed puckouts) to deal with this situation. Three times in the first half O’Keeffe received pass backs from defenders and immediately blasted them down the field, ignoring loose Waterford players in the midfield area who were waving their hurleys in frustration.

By contrast, Anthony Nash was always looking for team mates to hit the ball to. During the game he hit seven passes. O’Keeffe hit two in the last few minutes of the game when it didn’t matter anymore. In the Dublin/Clare game, the Dublin goalkeeper was very good at playing balls straight into the hands of his half backs about 50 metres from goal when they were playing into the wind.

It was very noticeable in the latter game how both teams (and especially Dublin) constantly sought to create space through the use of hand and stick passes. Dublin should have won the game comfortably with the possession they had, but they slavishly stuck to a prearranged game plan which involved playing low ball into their full forwards, even though the inside line had a very bad day at the office. I reckon that if Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran and Maurice Shanahan had been playing for Dublin, they would have won by ten points or more.

Cork have been working hard on the same approach in all their games, and it really worked for them last Sunday because of Waterford’s failure to close them down. Like Dublin and Clare (and most other top teams) Cork repeatedly used passing movements to get players into positions where they could either shoot for points or play good ball into the inside line. For teams like these, looking for a pass to a team mate in a better position is the first thing a player does when he gains possession. For Waterford, giving a pass is mainly something you do when you have no other option. Otherwise you just lamp the ball down the field, even though there is usually only one double-marked forward down there.

Last Sunday Cork hit 70 completed passes during the course of the game, in contrast to Waterford’s 41. The bulk of those 70 passes (42) were played in the second half when Cork were playing against the wind and passes were their preferred method of moving the ball out of defence, rather than lashing it down the field. Waterford played just 23 completed passes when playing against the wind in the first half.

One would get the impression from the way Waterford play that their training sessions consist entirely of doing rounds of the field, press-ups, ruck practice and long puck competitions. The ultimate example of what is wrong with how Waterford are playing at the moment came just before half time in the game in Croke Park, when both Stephen Bennett and Patrick Curran were involved in a ruck 55 metres from Waterford’s own goal. Waterford won the ruck, the ball was passed back to Tadhg de Búrca who hit a long ball up to the full forward line where Bennett and Curran should have been. Needless to say, the ball came straight back. How are Waterford supposed to win anything with this kind of codology going on?

The cluelessness of Waterford’s approach last Sunday extended to the decision to play against the strong wind having won the toss. Cork are a flakey team who would have come into this game low on confidence after their defeats to Dublin and Kilkenny. The last thing you wanted was to give them the chance to build up a bit of a lead with the wind at their backs which would boost their confidence. The objective should have been to bury them in the first half.

This is a very talented Waterford team which has been spancelled for the last three years by a system of play which refuses to exploit that talent. The team is also being constantly undermined by McGrath repeatedly stating that they are not good enough. Last Sunday’s team wasn’t good enough because of absent players. Tipperary and Kilkenny are years ahead of us. The achievement of winning the All-Ireland Under-21 title was just Vauxhall Conference stuff. Now McGrath is saying the league doesn’t matter, thus devaluing the team’s achievements in winning it in 2015 and getting to last year’s final. No team manager should be putting his team down like this. They, and their loyal supporters, deserve better.

dubcat51

I said at the start of the year mc grath would be the manager most under pressure.21 success and semi defeat last year when they went for it left him needing a all irrland final appearance at least and he must change style or supporters will rebel.

buck65

I can't believe Waterford people, the strongest team in decades and ye want a new manager. Get rid of that gobsheen Dan the man, or Bez from the Happy Mondays as I call him. Ha ha.

dubcat51

Dan is becoming the sideshow.really gets the opposition fans fired up.

buck65

An irritation to the Waterford management I'd say.

enoughtaken

redlead

buck65 wrote: »

I can't believe Waterford people, the strongest team in decades and ye want a new manager. Get rid of that gobsheen Dan the man, or Bez from the Happy Mondays as I call him. Ha ha.

When they win a few Munster titles and get to an All Ireland final they can be called the strongest Waterford team in decades. As it is they still haven't won a single championship game against a genuine title contender I.e Tipperary or Kilkenny. They have the talent but whether it's utilised is another matter.

robopaddy2

dubcat51 wrote: »

Dan is becoming the sideshow.really gets the opposition fans fired up.

Dan is fine. No issues with him having a strong presence on the line, if it irk's  the opposition so be it. Its not Derek's style to be up and down the sideline barking orders so I get why he'd want someone strong Dan there. From what I hear brings a lot to the squad in terms of morale and has a lot of respect from the players.
What I would have reservations about is his input to the management team in terms of tactics and selection etc. Having been there 4 years now I find it hard to believe he stands over the type of game we deploy.

fricatus

Giveitfong wrote: »

The cluelessness of Waterford’s approach last Sunday extended to the decision to play against the strong wind having won the toss. Cork are a flakey team who would have come into this game low on confidence after their defeats to Dublin and Kilkenny. The last thing you wanted was to give them the chance to build up a bit of a lead with the wind at their backs which would boost their confidence. The objective should have been to bury them in the first half.

I don't share your view of McGrath, but I'm gobsmacked at the idea that we'd elect to play into the wind.

I thought the choice would have been obvious and that Cork had won the toss! :eek:

hurler on de ditch

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Dan is fine. No issues with him having a strong presence on the line, if it irk's  the opposition so be it. Its not Derek's style to be up and down the sideline barking orders so I get why he'd want someone strong Dan there. From what I hear brings a lot to the squad in terms of morale and has a lot of respect from the players.
What I would have reservations about is his input to the management team in terms of tactics and selection etc. Having been there 4 years now I find it hard to believe he stands over the type of game we deploy.

agreed ,and if you think Dan is a show ,just look at SULLY he spent more time on the field than most of the cork team combined ,very influential with both the linemen and the referee ,and he manhandled the cork manager on more than one occasion

PTH2009

With the way some of the cuala lads played today we could be in for a torrid time in the relegation playoff if we're player Dublin in it

A big Dublin win and we lose without scoring well could possibly mean we play Kilkenny in the relegation playoff

Boom__Boom

culbaire wrote: »

Crokes are a very average side. The Gooch is no longer the player he was. Lacks the speed and sharpness that he once had. The Nire will beat them. Conor Gleeson is a brilliant dual player. He will destroy the Crokes defense.

ðŸ˜႒

Deise189

Match versus Limerick tomorrow is cancelled due to a bereavement for one of our players