Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

PTH2009

letowski wrote: »

From a Clare perspective, we have been just as inconsistent, we had a well below par performance yesterday too. The league in its nature always throws up hot and cold displays, and it always will, Cork, Waterford, KK and Clare form chart is all over the place. Its frustrating but not surprising. I think supporters just have to role with it and try to take some of the positives where they come. Tipp last year weren't up to much at this time but players like Breen, Kennedy and McGrath came through that reaped huge rewards later on. Like the way Stephen Bennett has performed for ye and David Fitz at wing back for us. I know alot of people don't like Derek McGrath's brand of hurling but at least there was improvements each year in his tenure. Waterford had a long season last year it must be said, played two replays as well, so maybe he is just timing his run. We were both flying this time last year, and did't get any silverware during the summer months. I wouldn't be panicking yet.

Look who ye have too come back for the game on the 25th March Tony Kelly and Jack Browne and ye never lose at home

OK let's Settle for a draw and hope cork lose than both of us qualify for the qfs

letowski

PTH2009 wrote: »

Look who ye have too come back for the game on the 25th March Tony Kelly and Jack Browne and ye never lose at home

OK let's Settle for a draw and hope cork lose than both of us qualify for the qfs

Kelly will improve us, but its still a quite inconsistent Clare team trying to adapt to a completely new brand of hurling. Its a very 50/50 game between us, one would be mad to put money on it.

danganabu

PTH2009 wrote: »

Look who ye have too come back for the game on the 25th March Tony Kelly and Jack Browne and ye never lose at home

OK let's Settle for a draw and hope cork lose than both of us qualify for the qfs

This should be seen as a massive boost to Waterford!!

blueflame

Just saw the following quote from Derek in a piece by Colm Keyes in the Independent today -

"I blame myself. There has been a definite attempt to become more forward-thinking and with the balance of trying to achieve that we are maybe losing touch with why, sometimes people didn't ask why did Waterford only lost two (group) league games in the last three seasons.
"Maybe there was an element of how we set up and how we approached it. And maybe we are getting lost a small bit in the need to evolve."

Maybe it is just me and the couple of hundred sitting around me at the last four league games, but I have seen little if any evidence of forward -thinking or evolving - there were many reasons why we lost yesterday's game but a more attacking approach or playing conventional was not one of them - Likewise the many mentions of teh U21 team, beginning to feel he is becoming paranoid about this - fact is the only one he progressed from the U21 ranks yesterday was Darragh Lyons - the other members of the U21 side ie. Patrick Curran, Tom Devine, Austin Gleeson Stephen Bennett and Shane Bennett have been part of the set up since 2015 - this is their 3rd year playing senior - so what is he talking about?

PTH2009

blueflame wrote: »

Just saw the following quote from Derek in a piece by Colm Keyes in the Independent today -

"I blame myself. There has been a definite attempt to become more forward-thinking and with the balance of trying to achieve that we are maybe losing touch with why, sometimes people didn't ask why did Waterford only lost two (group) league games in the last three seasons.
"Maybe there was an element of how we set up and how we approached it. And maybe we are getting lost a small bit in the need to evolve."

Maybe it is just me and the couple of hundred sitting around me at the last four league games, but I have seen little if any evidence of forward -thinking or evolving - there were many reasons why we lost yesterday's game but a more attacking approach or playing conventional was not one of them - Likewise the many mentions of teh U21 team, beginning to feel he is becoming paranoid about this - fact is the only one he progressed from the U21 ranks yesterday was Darragh Lyons - the other members of the U21 side ie. Patrick Curran, Tom Devine, Austin Gleeson Stephen Bennett and Shane Bennett have been part of the set up since 2015 - this is their 3rd year playing senior - so what is he talking about?

No idea what mcgrath is on about but are we going to see a change now or are we going to go even more defensive ??

cul beag

blueflame wrote: »

Just saw the following quote from Derek in a piece by Colm Keyes in the Independent today -

"I blame myself. There has been a definite attempt to become more forward-thinking and with the balance of trying to achieve that we are maybe losing touch with why, sometimes people didn't ask why did Waterford only lost two (group) league games in the last three seasons.
"Maybe there was an element of how we set up and how we approached it. And maybe we are getting lost a small bit in the need to evolve."

Maybe it is just me and the couple of hundred sitting around me at the last four league games, but I have seen little if any evidence of forward -thinking or evolving - there were many reasons why we lost yesterday's game but a more attacking approach or playing conventional was not one of them - Likewise the many mentions of teh U21 team, beginning to feel he is becoming paranoid about this - fact is the only one he progressed from the U21 ranks yesterday was Darragh Lyons - the other members of the U21 side ie. Patrick Curran, Tom Devine, Austin Gleeson Stephen Bennett and Shane Bennett have been part of the set up since 2015 - this is their 3rd year playing senior - so what is he talking about?

He also spoke about sticking or twisting and that they'll probably twist meaning there will be changes for the Clare game. That will probably add up to Dillon,McNulty and Daniels all starting and recalling Eddie Barrett!
But you are right he's obsessed with the u21 success and keeps mentioning it during interviews. Plus the hilarious thing was big Dan earlier in the year trying to claim they had a big part to play in that success as many of them were with the seniors. The brand of hurling played by the u21 was as different as you could get to the tripe played by the seniors so to be trying to claim some of the credit for it is cringing. They know they're on borrowed time,4 years and 1 national league to show so far,a hiding in last year's Munster final on top of that so they realise the supporters aren't buying the sh**e being spun out anymore.

ThaiTanic

Waterford have the worst management team in the country, Ive said it all year and the Pro Derek lads go mad, Results are speaking for themselves, We will be lucky not to be relegated and stay within 20 points of Tipp in the Munster Semi final. Waterford and McGrath are the biggest laughing stock in the country at the min. McGrath is full of sh1t, always was always will be.

crottys lake

I will continue to support Derek and his management team and of course the players.

It was a tough day at the office yesterday and a rather baffling one. The league has never been the priority this year, this is a well known fact. Sure, a win yesterday would have been grand but this is not the time to be going over board with wild criticism of Derek McGrath as a result of the disappointing loss.

I keep saying that we have no option to replace Jamie Barron and indeed it started to go wrong pretty soon after he went off injured. I was impressed with his clubmate, Connor Gleeson, when he came on.

The team are being prepared specifically for the Munster semi final. That is the big aim at present. It would be nice to keep our status in the League and I still think we will do that. Cool heads needed now to support the management and team.

DiscoStew

crottys lake wrote: »

I keep saying that we have no option to replace Jamie Barron and indeed it started to go wrong pretty soon after he went off injured. I was impressed with his clubmate, Connor Gleeson, when he came on.

I was a bit disappointed that it was Conor replaced Jamie. Conor has had a few games now and is definitely more comfortable in the backs. He did switch to wing back in the second half with Moran and Dunford midfield until Dunford was replace.
I would have preferred to see Mikey Kearney tried for Barron's replacement. He would have a similar style of play.
Anybody know what's Colm Roches situation? He hasn't featured on the bench even this year has he? DJ Foran returned to the panel and got no league game time. I wouldn't see him as a starter come championship but surely when we were in dire straights trying to win a ball all game his aerial ability could have been put to good use.

danganabu

ThaiTanic wrote: »

Waterford have the worst management team in the country, Ive said it all year and the Pro Derek lads go mad, Results are speaking for themselves, We will be lucky not to be relegated and stay within 20 points of Tipp in the Munster Semi final. Waterford and McGrath are the biggest laughing stock in the country at the min. McGrath is full of sh1t, always was always will be.

At least the ''supporters'' aren't over-reacting

ovalu

[quote="DiscoStew;10290
Anybody know what's Colm Roches situation? He hasn't featured on the bench even this year has he? .[/quote]

Heard he was dropped, valid reasons too,
A. He tends to hurl off the cuff
B. He didn't attend DLS school
C. He doesn't play for DLS club

Motivator

If people want to continue to think that things will be fine and things will change then say your minds back to the last 10 minutes of the Kilkenny game in a Croke Park. We were 3 points up and the players panicked and went back to what had been drilled into them every week in training for god knows how long. Some of the players said after the game that they forgot what to do when they found themselves in the position they were in. Is that another way of saying "we didn't plan to be leading with 10 minutes to go"? Either way, if a team of players collectively panics because they find themselves in that kind of position in the biggest game all year then something is very badly wrong with how things are being done.

conditioned games

It's worrying to see the lessons from last years all Ireland semi not being learned. The 2 corner forwards should be in the corner instead of one standing in front of the full forward and the other out the field. When ahead in Croke Park last year they panicked and reverted to type costing them the win. McGrath really needs to start believing in the team now and stop the defeatest talk about how they are 5yrs behind Tipperary nonsense.

Motivator

conditioned games wrote: »

It's worrying to see the lessons from last years all Ireland semi not being learned. The 2 corner forwards should be in the corner instead of one standing in front of the full forward and the other out the field. When ahead in Croke Park last year they panicked and reverted to type costing them the win. McGrath really needs to start believing in the team now and stop the defeatest talk about how they are 5yrs behind Tipperary nonsense.

If Mcgrath is still there next year we'll be 10 years behind them!

Motivator

conditioned games wrote: »

It's worrying to see the lessons from last years all Ireland semi not being learned. The 2 corner forwards should be in the corner instead of one standing in front of the full forward and the other out the field. When ahead in Croke Park last year they panicked and reverted to type costing them the win. McGrath really needs to start believing in the team now and stop the defeatest talk about how they are 5yrs behind Tipperary nonsense.

If Mcgrath is still there next year we'll be 10 years behind them!

tomwaterford

conditioned games wrote: »

It's worrying to see the lessons from last years all Ireland semi not being learned. The 2 corner forwards should be in the corner instead of one standing in front of the full forward and the other out the field. When ahead in Croke Park last year they panicked and reverted to type costing them the win. McGrath really needs to start believing in the team now and stop the defeatest talk about how they are 5yrs behind Tipperary nonsense.

The whole place was roaring at them last year to push on....kk fans themselves admitted waterford shouldve won by 6 or 7 the first day


It wss the performences them two games made me think mcgrath shouldve gotton anothrr year....but tbh i wouldnt be put out to see him gone by june now

robopaddy2

ovalu wrote: »

[quote="DiscoStew;10290
Anybody know what's Colm Roches situation? He hasn't featured on the bench even this year has he? .

Heard he was dropped, valid reasons too,
A. He tends to  hurl off the cuff
B. He didn't attend DLS school
C. He doesn't play for DLS club[/quote]



Lets see, there was one DLS player on the team on Sunday. He has been one of our leading players over the past 10 years.

Darragh Lyons, from last years u21 team was given his first championship start, in place of Stephen Daniels.  People were crying out to see more of the u21s from last year we they not? I think the lad came up a bit short of the required standard on the day. But his day will come.

Out of the so called 'Derek's pets' I think Coughlan and Connors did ok and Pauric didn't do too badly either. People will sop at nothing to find flaws in Coughlan mainly because he was in school under Derek it would seem, but I've yet to see someone come up with an obvious alternative option. 

So in trying to find merit in your argument Ive come to the conclusion that your talking ****.

blueflame

I will always support Waterford and will hopefully be in Ennis next week. Personally I have no issue with the players being selected - that can often be down to form in training which none of us see. I have no issue with the commitment that Derek and management give, they put in phenomenal time and effort and cannot be faulted there either. I do not want to get rid of him now, he deserves to see this season out and should be judged at the end of it. However, I do wish that he would:

- stop being so negative about the teams ability versus everyone else
- stop with the constant fear factor that every time we lose a game it is because we changed the system.
- stop accusing the supporters of not understating and missing things - while many of us in the stands have very limited knowledge and we have more than our fair share of clowns, there are supporters at these games who will have forgotten more about hurling than Derek will ever know.
- stop over analysing - Derek's claim to fame is that at least every five minutes he thinks about hurling - if he is genuinely doing this he is constantly questioning and doubting every single decision he makes.
- stop giving interviews every bloody second day in the newspapers,
- practice what he preaches he says we have a panel of 30, trust and use all 30 and stop looking for excuses.
- Stop talking about the u21 and how it is a different championship - we all know that - Sock, Iggy, Shane Fives, Noel Connors, Tadgh deBurca, Philip Mahony, Kevin Moran, Jamie Barron, Pauric Mahony, Darragh Fives, Mauric Shanahan, Colin Dunford, Gavin O'Brien, Shane McNulty, Jake Dillon plus many more were not under 21 last year.

I wish he would just return to what he is good at, motivating players, organizing things and give it the added dimension of believing and getting the players to believe. Grand if our focus is not entirely on the league this year, say that, say that our focus is elsewhere, believe in what you are doing, and finally stop naming dummy teams in the programme.

Jayesdiem

From what I know of Derek McGrath (I'm not from Waterford) he is a great coach and has a very astute hurling brain. I'd also question the panic being shown on here because from the outside looking in the perception is that he has, and does, have Waterford on the right path. Based on the comments here you'd think Waterford were the laughing stock of hurling yet the only thing that would achieve that status would be yet another player coup. My only point of confusion is McGrath's willingness to give almost countless sound bites to the podcast shows who absolutely love him because nobody else seems willing to talk to them. There may be a reason for that. I see good things again this year for Waterford and I see McGrath being central to that but he would do well to drop the preoccupation with media work. There are only 24 hours in one day.

cul beag

Jayesdiem wrote: »

From what I know of Derek McGrath (I'm not from Waterford) he is a great coach and has a very astute hurling brain. I'd also question the panic being shown on here because from the outside looking in the perception is that he has, and does, have Waterford on the right path. Based on the comments here you'd think Waterford were the laughing stock of hurling yet the only thing that would achieve that status would be yet another player coup. My only point of confusion is McGrath's willingness to give almost countless sound bites to the podcast shows who absolutely love him because nobody else seems willing to talk to them. There may be a reason for that. I see good things again this year for Waterford and I see McGrath being central to that but he would do well to drop the preoccupation with media work. There are only 24 hours in one day.

The reason is because he's keeping the journos onside as he doesn't do criticism too well. I'd ask you to read Phil Fanning's on today's Waterford News and Star and his account of what's going on. Thankfully he doesn't buy into the sh**e being spun out by McGrath.

PTH2009

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/mcgrath-concern-for-dise-evolution-35524322.html

Im starting to get very worried with this negativity from Mcgrath (and thats coming from me)

McGrath was hoping Waterford would have had the cushion of safety before mixing up selection for the remaining game against Clare. But it's something that he feels they might still do, despite the threat of a relegation battle which, he feels, they'd be better able t0 deal with if it transpires.

"Now we're facing a situation, do we stick or twist? I think we'll twist. There's a staleness based on three years in a row of being able to name 13 of our 15 players.
"That's what I can see. I can also see a difference between U-21 and senior in terms of the expectancy, that possible blip in terms of where we're going. We're dragged into it now, but we're not going to be in the dressing-room saying, 'There's no way we're going to 1B', we'll take the other approach."

Its almost he wants us to be in 1B next year. Although 1B will be stronger with Galway and Limerick in there and we will be guaranteed a QF place as we should have enough for the likes of Laois, Offaly, Kerry etc

JeffKenna

Getting relegated hardly matters if it'll be an 8 team top division next year.

Deise189

Barron to miss Clare game with a broken rib.

PTH2009

JeffKenna wrote: »

Getting relegated hardly matters if it'll be an 8 team top division next year.

The more I think about it, I think the structure will stay the same as 1B will be competitive next year

But I'd rather be travelling to a league QF this year than a relegation playoff as I think the calibre of players we have don't deserve to be battling relegation/possibly be in 1B

tomwaterford

cul beag wrote: »

The reason is because he's keeping the journos onside as he doesn't do criticism too well. I'd ask you to read Phil Fanning's on today's Waterford News and Star and his account of what's going on. Thankfully he doesn't buy into the sh**e being spun out by McGrath.

Is this abailable online

cul beag

tomwaterford wrote: »

Is this abailable online

No you have to pay a subscription to avail of the weekly service.

robopaddy2

cul beag wrote: »

The reason is because he's keeping the journos onside as he doesn't do criticism too well. I'd ask you to read Phil Fanning's on today's Waterford News and Star and his account of what's going on. Thankfully he doesn't buy into the sh**e being spun out by McGrath.

I'm beginning to wonder are dealing with Derek McGrath or Kim Jung An of north Korea the way some of ye are going on.

Deise Gael

No need to panic folks...

https://twitter.com/SportsJOE_GAA/status/841693742935490562?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=520fd37c4bad4fa4a1337e3ca64cbbd6&uid=2262637539&nid=244+281088001

PTH2009

Deise Gael wrote: »

No need to panic folks...

https://twitter.com/SportsJOE_GAA/status/841693742935490562?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=520fd37c4bad4fa4a1337e3ca64cbbd6&uid=2262637539&nid=244+281088001

I'd rather go to see us play the top teams instead of the likes of Laois, Kerry etc

A narrow defeat in Clare and Victory at home too Dublin in the playoff wud be acceptable. Relegation should not be acceptable no matter what way we used the league

As we only played 2 home games and Dublin played 3 than we get home advantage for the playoff. If vs Kilkenny or Cork it's a coin toss. If we Qualify for a QF it's Wexford or Limerick at home and a coin toss if vs Galway

robopaddy2

looking a what's happening own in 1B this year staying in 1A is pretty important. 1B is a shambles of a league