Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

PTH2009

Motivator wrote: »

Another thing I find quite annoying is when people say "ah we haven't the players". That's rubbish, we've a team that could POTENTIALLY be the best Waterford team for quite some time - proven by the way some of the great team of the '00s talk so highly of this current team, namely; Mullane, Eoin Kelly, Flynner and Fergal Hartley. Everyone knows this team has great potential and for the first time in a very long time this team has winners all over it. I'm not sure how many of the team have Harty medals (10+?), Minor All Irelands, Fitzgibbon medals and U21s All Irelands too. Lots have been successful with their clubs too so it's not as if they are journeymen players who are just competing all along, these players have been winning.

I think too many excuses are being made for Derek McGrath, excuses that no other manager has ever been afforded. Justin McCarthy got the boot, Davy Fitz left in odd circumstances and we all know what happened Michael Ryan. None of these men ever got bowed down to like the current manager. I've a lot of time for Derek, I played against him for many years and I respect him but I'm not afraid to say he's not up to the job. Many will disagree with me and say I've waited until a bad day at the office to have a go at him but I felt this way throughout 2014 which was a car crash of a year, 2015 the Championship was no better apart from the Cork game in Munster when we played very well. Last year the Semi against Kilkenny looked like a watershed moment for the team and the management but this year we seem to have gone backwards.

Things may change down the line, but it doesn't look likely. How we played in Croke Park and Thurles seems lightyears ago and if we were going to be playing in a similar way this year it would already be in place during the league. If we're not serious about the league what are we doing week to week? Tactically we're the same as ever before and I can't see the management pulling a rabbit out of the hat and parachuting in a new way of playing for the Championship if it isn't being given time to tweak it during the league.

i knw its unlikely but maybe were doing a 'new system' in private in house training games and it will be unleashed in the championship (or relagation playoff in the league)

I would be surprised that we were training dis moring cause we looked like a team out on our feet

Dont expect a big waterford support to travel to Ennis on the 26th March (wont make it myself so hopefully it will be on TV) but if we play like we did today we will be torn apart. The management have themselves too blame really to put the team under so much pressure going too a place that has not been kind to us and now its a must win game and we have to put up a big score either way as its possible Cork and Dublin will lose and we will all be on 4 points (comes down to point difference for 4th place).

Sadly the most likely sanario is that it will be Tipp (9), Clare (6), Kilkenny (5), Cork (4) going into the QFs and Ourselves (4) and Dublin (2) facing off in a relagation playoff in Walsh Park. Best case sanario is a win/draw for us over Clare but if we lose and Dublin/Cork win than we will finish in 4th place as we beat Dublin on the H2H (Tipp, Cork, Clare, Waterford and Dublin vs Kilkenny in the playoff). A draw in the Dublin vs Kilkenny game could also go our way (Cork must get a win/draw vs Tipp) as we will beat Kilkenny on H2H

3ships

Bring back the pets

dubcat51

Mc grath is the new davy fitz without the all ireland.

dubcat51

cul beag wrote: »

The problem is we're listening to utter bull**** for the past I don't know how long and unfortunately the people are beginning to see through his crap. When you see both teams last night going toe to toe,no quarter asked or given,that's all you'll ask of your team. But to be strangled with bull**** systems that are stifling our players is the most frustrating thing to watch as a supporter. Christ McGrath will you leave them die with their boots on rather than hiding behind each other in piles. The team would get more respect for doing so. The frustration of this ****e is getting worse by the week.

agree totally.even if we had lost last night I would have left thurles a proud supporter of my team.what tipp and kk served up was brillant for everyone that was lucky to be there.

corny

Just saw the Shanahan sending off. Scandalous decision. Didn't make an aggressive move yet he got the line.

Why wouldn't players cheat when they know going down like a sack of spuds gets rewarded.

paddy13

Motivator wrote: »

Was excited heading down to this today and the wife, a Cork woman, looking forward to seeing the same team she saw in Thurles last August.

Today was an embarrassment from start to finish. What is wrong with Derek McGrath? His big words in his interviews might make him sound like the real deal but he and his management team are looking anything but. Imagine if we still had a Paul Flynn or a Mullane - they'd be out around midfield running towards their own goal to defend. We saw how good The Bennetts, the Gleesons and Patrick Curran are in their minor days and last years U21. If I was them I'd be pulling off the panel until McGrath goes. Look how frustrating it is for us to watch, imagine having to actually go out and play that **** every week? I'd love to see what they do in training because that was pathetic today. I pity Brick - he stuck around because of the performances against KK last August. I presume he thought things would change but they haven't. Today was scandalous and for the first time under McGrath the team looked a beaten docket after 45 mins.

How long is this going to persist? This is McGrath's 4th year in charge and we haven't beaten a team of note in the Championship - a Clare team not at the races in June doesn't count. What has McGrath got against trying to play to his team's strengths? The U21 team played to their strengths last year, U12 teams are coached to play to their strengths but this clown thinks he can win an All Ireland by asking fellas to go against everything they learned from the minute they started playing the game at a competitive level. It's actually quite funny what he's at and the yes men he has with him on his backroom team are as bad. Not a bit of cop on in any of them at all.

An 8 point defeat to a poor Cork team is not good enough. Grand, Waterford are said to be aiming to "peak" for August. Peak how? In what way are they going to peak? If McGrath was going to alter how the team will set up and operate for the Championship he would be trialing it now. Things won't change but all the excuses in the world will be given by McGrath and for him when our summer goes tits up.

Well you go into the dressing room starting the next day and kick McGrath out tell the team to let fly. So sick of this negative s***e. Great post!

Hslaw

Jesus christ. People on here make me laugh. It's March and ye are calling for everyone's head to put on a pike around the walls of walsh park. Can we wait until the year is over before passing judgment. If we had won today everyone would be patting each other on the back saying how good McGrath and Co are doing. I agree today was a disaster but ffs listen to yerself. This is the reason I can't be bothered coming on here anymore.

paddy13

Hslaw wrote: »

Jesus christ. People on here make me laugh. It's March and ye are calling for everyone's head to put on a pike around the walls of walsh park. Can we wait until the year is over before passing judgment. If we had won today everyone would be patting each other on the back saying how good McGrath and Co are doing. I agree today was a disaster but ffs listen to yerself. This is the reason I can't be bothered coming on here anymore.

I know what time it's March, but I have given McGrath over three years to show how he is to improve the team and the way we play but we are playing awful type hurling. Even if we won, you'd be satisfied but not happy. It's not like it really the type of hurling really excites you. Look course McGrath will be there to the end of this year but I'm hoping that is it. Tipp are currently the pace setters and we are long way off them playing like we have been so far.

I hope they surprise me but really if we are to show progress this year. Need to be getting to an All Ireland (and no point getting there without winning) but that seems unlikely this year.

Bonniedog

corny wrote: »

Just saw the Shanahan sending off. Scandalous decision. Didn't make an aggressive move yet he got the line.

Why wouldn't players cheat when they know going down like a sack of spuds gets rewarded.

You ever hear the parable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

What goes around, comes around... so they say...

Motivator

Hslaw wrote: »

Jesus christ. People on here make me laugh. It's March and ye are calling for everyone's head to put on a pike around the walls of walsh park. Can we wait until the year is over before passing judgment. If we had won today everyone would be patting each other on the back saying how good McGrath and Co are doing. I agree today was a disaster but ffs listen to yerself. This is the reason I can't be bothered coming on here anymore.

How much time do you want to give him?

If we're beaten in Munster in June people will say "sure it's grand we'll go through the back door and have more games".

Then, whenever it is we're beaten and are out of the All Ireland series, people will say "the team is young they need more time".

It's the same excuses given year on year. How long do you think a manger in Tipperary or Clare would be given if they had a similarly talented group of players? Like I said earlier, this team is potentially the best we've had in a long, long time and McGrath is already in his 4th year. Time waits for no man and he has to deliver this year. No excuses, otherwise his managerial reign will be a complete failure.

No other manager has had the level of respect from the players as McGrath enjoys with this panel. It's time he returns the favour and trusts them to play the way they can. Does anyone really believe that this is as good as it gets for this group of players? 4 championship games against Kilkenny and Tipperary and 4 defeats. The players are better than they're allowed to show and it isn't right.

Mulbert

Every one......




....calm down!

Motivator

Mulbert wrote: »

Every one......




....calm down!

Have you seen anything so far in any of our 4 games to suggest we have progressed since last year? I'm not even talking about the Championship. I'm talking about at this exact stage last year?

tomwaterford

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Heard today that the team had a training session this morning before the game, ludicrous if true. Also a full on session last Sunday morning after the Dublin game.

This shte was wheeled out last year after the munster final

Either A...they want to lose
Or B...they learned nothing from that debacle above in limerick last year


I said it before....im sick to my stomach of watching waterford play like this (remember the boredom of them playing wexford last year?)

I was genuinely looking forward to seeing them play this spring after the two semis last year v kk..taught theyd push and give it a right crack....show everyone what they are capable of

But why would you bother your hole going to see that.....i know its march....but only look at what kk and tipp put on the night before-i refuse to believe they arent aiming for augest peaking aswel


Mcgrath has talked a good talk about tweaking it and making it more attacking....its time to fcuking deliver.....he is in a lucky position the panel is so young.....waterford managers have been previously ousted for less

Stopitwillya

Please god this is McGrath's last year. I think at this stage Waterford supporters are finally starting to realise he is not the right man for the job. Getting Philip Murphy in as a selector has been a big mistake. Same philosophy on how the game should be played as Derek. Both big into tactics and having lots of players in your own half. Having someone with a different viewpoint would have been
more beneficial. Someone earlier mentioned Paul Flynn and I would have to agree 100%. As for Dan, I still struggle to understand how such a great forward can stand over such a negative gameplan. It just doesn't make sense.

It will be interesting to see how Sean Power gets on with the under 21s this year. A repeat of last year and surely the job will be his next year.

Motivator

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Please god this is McGrath's last year. I think at this stage Waterford supporters are finally starting to realise he is not the right man for the job. Getting Philip Murphy in as a selector has been a big mistake. Same philosophy on how the game should be played as Derek. Both big into tactics and having lots of players in your own half. Having someone with a different viewpoint would have been
more beneficial. Someone earlier mentioned Paul Flynn and I would have to agree 100%. As for Dan, I still struggle to understand how such a great forward can stand over such a negative gameplan. It just doesn't make sense.

It will be interesting to see how Sean Power gets on with the under 21s this year. A repeat of last year and surely the job will be his next year.

Paul would never fit in with the current management as he isn't a yes man.

PTH2009

Motivator wrote: »

How much time do you want to give him?

If we're beaten in Munster in June people will say "sure it's grand we'll go through the back door and have more games".

Then, whenever it is we're beaten and are out of the All Ireland series, people will say "the team is young they need more time".

It's the same excuses given year on year. How long do you think a manger in Tipperary or Clare would be given if they had a similarly talented group of players? Like I said earlier, this team is potentially the best we've had in a long, long time and McGrath is already in his 4th year. Time waits for no man and he has to deliver this year. No excuses, otherwise his managerial reign will be a complete failure.

No other manager has had the level of respect from the players as McGrath enjoys with this panel. It's time he returns the favour and trusts them to play the way they can. Does anyone really believe that this is as good as it gets for this group of players? 4 championship games against Kilkenny and Tipperary and 4 defeats. The players are better than they're allowed to show and it isn't right.

true and if it all goes pear shaped this year (which is not beyond doubt) than its time for the county board to thank Mcgrath for all his work and both sides move on. Mcgrath could be Waterfords version of Brian Cody as hes very respected by the players but his playing style and general stubborness for it is causing problems but what are we to say if the players feel he is the best man for the job ??? Derek Mcgrath is not an old man and could be around for years but he seems like a guy who would walk away on good terms if he lost the dressing room

If we get to an All Ireland semi final and put up a good show he will keep his job, A Qualifer or QF defeat may not be enough

Mcgraths championship record 2014-2016 played 13
5 wins (1x Cork, Clare, Wexford, Dublin)
2 draws (1x Kilkenny and Cork)
6 defeats (2x Tipp, 2x Kilkenny, 1x Cork, 1x Wexford)

If we stand a chance of winning the AI this year we need to beat Tipp or Cork in the Munster semi final on June 18th. Going by league form of other teams The qualifers will be a tricky place to be in as 2 of Wexford, Dublin, Galway and Kilkenny will be in the first round draw (Kilkenny will more than likely play Wexford (who play one of the Leinster group teams) in Wexford Park in the leinster semi final and Galway are playing Dublin in the Leinster QF than the winners face Offaly or A leinster group team in the semis). A Waterford vs Limerick or Clare munster final would be brillent for Hurling

Id hate hate having to travel to Wexford Park or Parnell Park for the 1st Round Qualifer

Everyones forgetting in the league we could possibly lose out too both Cork and Dublin on pts difference and play Kilkenny in the relagation playoff ???

Hslaw

I'm not saying I enjoy the brand of hurling we play. I don't think we're taking the league as serious as the past two seasons.

He's here for the rest of the season nothing we can do about it. Only get on on and see how we progress. If the team losses the trust and confidence in him, then that is a whole other matter. But coming on here moaning and b**ching about isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. He's still going to be the manager

cul beag

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Please god this is McGrath's last year. I think at this stage Waterford supporters are finally starting to realise he is not the right man for the job. Getting Philip Murphy in as a selector has been a big mistake. Same philosophy on how the game should be played as Derek. Both big into tactics and having lots of players in your own half. Having someone with a different viewpoint would have been
more beneficial. Someone earlier mentioned Paul Flynn and I would have to agree 100%. As for Dan, I still struggle to understand how such a great forward can stand over such a negative gameplan. It just doesn't make sense.

It will be interesting to see how Sean Power gets on with the under 21s this year. A repeat of last year and surely the job will be his next year.

Dan has absolutely no say in the whole set up. Don't forget his own club are Munster intermediate champions and beaten all Ireland semi finalists and not one of their players were looked at because McGrath said no. Don't forget the image has to be kept in the public eye also. No doubting his hurling ability but his coaching or selector experience leaves alot to be desired. You would have to ask the question why Maher and Flannery left after one year also? Hadn't they a lucky escape! As Motivator stated above,Paul Flynn will have nothing to do with this farce of a dictatorship because he wouldn't bow down to McGrath and wouldn't be associated with this tripe we're being served up at the moment. Any team he has been involved with has always tried to play with a bit of style and swagger.

PTH2009

cul beag wrote: »

Dan has absolutely no say in the whole set up. Don't forget his own club are Munster intermediate champions and beaten all Ireland semi finalists and not one of their players were looked at because McGrath said no. Don't forget the image has to be kept in the public eye also. No doubting his hurling ability but his coaching or selector experience leaves alot to be desired. You would have to ask the question why Maher and Flannery left after one year also? Hadn't they a lucky escape! As Motivator stated above,Paul Flynn will have nothing to do with this farce of a dictatorship because he wouldn't bow down to McGrath and wouldn't be associated with this tripe we're being served up at the moment. Any team he has been involved with has always tried to play with a bit of style and swagger.

Is Paul Flynn not a part of Kevin Ryan's Offaly setup ???

robopaddy2

Deise Gael wrote: »

Ok, that explains everything so!

I was only saying what I heard. Its a public forum last time I checked....

mountgomery burns

Bonniedog wrote: »

You ever hear the parable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

What goes around, comes around... so they say...

You are a gob****e

mountgomery burns

cul beag wrote: »

Dan has absolutely no say in the whole set up. Don't forget his own club are Munster intermediate champions and beaten all Ireland semi finalists and not one of their players were looked at because McGrath said no. Don't forget the image has to be kept in the public eye also. No doubting his hurling ability but his coaching or selector experience leaves alot to be desired. You would have to ask the question why Maher and Flannery left after one year also? Hadn't they a lucky escape! As Motivator stated above,Paul Flynn will have nothing to do with this farce of a dictatorship because he wouldn't bow down to McGrath and wouldn't be associated with this tripe we're being served up at the moment. Any team he has been involved with has always tried to play with a bit of style and swagger.

Things were far worse when Flannery and Maher were on board so don't try and play that card again. Was it you that was doing your normal vaugue routine before the start of last year hinting Stephen Bennett had a commitment problem and then was mystified he couldn't get a look in the first day v Kilkenny?

You've had a problem with McGrath from day one, and it can only be agenda driven. Some balance would go along way.

blueflame

Bad enough watching that yesterday without having to listen to the cringe worthy attempt at explaining it as presented on the interview on WLR sport this monring - "people put people on pedestals but we don't in this group , we need all our players Philip Mahony and Darragh Fives and all to be going well" add this to the usual tripe of "we are miles behind Tipp and KK " and you get a manger who has no belief in his team, - that being the case, please step aside and give someone else a chance before the confidence of this bunch of lads is destroyed. Alternatively forget the English lessons he likes to give the public, show a bit of faith in the ability of these lads and let them hurl.

on radi

Deise_2012

Ye have to wait until Munster. Mcgrath is looking at the same game we're watching lads. He's a smart guy, if he can honestly sit down and watch how badly we're performing and then still try to implement the same tactics in June well then yeah he's gonna have a short year.
I just don't see the point in complaining now, it's the league and free flowing hurling in Walsh Park is tough to achieve. He's still gonna be here come June. Are ye seriously gonna repeat yerselves over and over again until then?

Motivator

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Ye have to wait until Munster. Mcgrath is looking at the same game we're watching lads. He's a smart guy, if he can honestly sit down and watch how badly we're performing and then still try to implement the same tactics in June well then yeah he's gonna have a short year.
I just don't see the point in complaining now, it's the league and free flowing hurling in Walsh Park is tough to achieve. He's still gonna be here come June. Are ye seriously gonna repeat yerselves over and over again until then?

I'm not looking for free flowing hurling, I'm looking for a team to be set up properly to actually win a game. I'd that the case at the moment? No

robopaddy2

Usual over reaction here, we lose a game the world is over, we win and we should expect nothing less than Liam McCarthy. Yesterday was poor yes, but no point even analysing it anymore, just write it off and move on..  If we see the same sort of performance in Ennis in 2 weeks time then I'll start getting worried. The league has thrown up a lot of inconsistent results and more significantly, performances to date. Fact of the matter is you just cant judge where a team is at  based on their league showing. Everyone has their view about Derek McGrath but its still early March. We beat KK in Nowlan Park a couple weeks ago, now people are calling for him to be sacked. Who remembers what position were in this time last year? I don't. Some perspective people

blueflame

Let's be honest, pitch in Walsh Park was crap, but it was crap for both sides. Extremely worrying points about yesterday were:

- once again we got a dream start and just collapsed.
- In our half forward line yesterday we consistently broke ball down and cannot remember once we coming away with the ball out of the ruck.
- At least four times in the second half yesterday when paying with a gale , Cork Full back line were able to play simple hand pass or short passes into their half back line who were under no pressure while we had three lads standing out in the middle of the field on no one - not really sure what they were supposed to be doing.
- Darragh Lyons, (who is only a very young lad and is certainly a serious prospect for the future) making his full league debut was getting cleaned out and we never even looked like making a change, what must Shane McNulty or Gavin O'Brien think?

Grand we may not be interested in the league, maybe there are bigger fish to fry, but being quite honest, listening to after match comments such "as people don't know", - "it is amazing how much gets overlooked in the match analysis" - " we don' have the players" " we need the likes of Darragh Fives and Philip Mahony - but while some people put players on pedestals our group doesn't" I am afraid Derek did that right there!!! - comments like this basically mean that the rest of the panel are not good enough to cover injuries to these players. The only cliche he has not yet used (or maybe I missed it) is that "we went conventional today at some stages, even though nobody saw it, which amazes me and look what happened"

Why could he just not come out and say, something simple like " that was a bad day at the office, for some reason we were very flat and Cork simply wanted it much more than we did - I don't know what caused it today but unfortunately we have left ourselves in a very difficult position and the lads know that - we now have to go to Clare in two weeks time and get something, but that is Division 1 hurling - no game is taken for granted and if we want to stay in Division 1 we have to cope with things like this and prove we are are worthy of Division 1 status - I can guarantee you we will go to Clare in two weeks time and while we will respect them we will not fear them, and we will give it everything"

Instead we get wonderful linguistic speeches that indicate we are inferior to others and he can tell us later we don't really understand not only what he is saying but we do not understand what he is trying to do and we do not understand hurling.

culbaire

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Ye have to wait until Munster. Mcgrath is looking at the same game we're watching lads. He's a smart guy, if he can honestly sit down and watch how badly we're performing and then still try to implement the same tactics in June well then yeah he's gonna have a short year.
I just don't see the point in complaining now, it's the league and free flowing hurling in Walsh Park is tough to achieve. He's still gonna be here come June. Are ye seriously gonna repeat yerselves over and over again until then?

Out with Derek McGrath's ruck and maul bastardised hurling! What we had yesterday was junk "hurling". Sad to see Waterford humiliated by a Cork team that would have been annihilated by former great Rebel teams. As long as Derek McGrath adopts this approach, he is going to face strong criticism. Rightly so!

McGrath won't drop some of his favourites. The defensive system is a used to shield them from their weaknesses as hurlers. He has a closed mind in relation to some hurlers in the county. He is just can't admit that he is wrong.

Just contrast the Tipperary v Kilkenny game with the Waterford v Cork fiasco. Will Derek McGrath listen? Of course, not!

JesusRef

We invested heavily in the league the last two years - it seems fairly obvious that Waterford are not throwing everything at it this year.

the proof of the pudding will be Clare in Ennis, If McGrath makes a lot of changes, which based on comments I think he might, it is proof enough that the league is not the focus.

We may well go down to 1B - if we do what harm, the last time we did we ended up winning the bloody thing.

After the last two year the league doesn't serve us much of purpose....

Almost every player had an off day yesterday - they must have had on hell of a tough training session in close proximity to the game

letowski

From a Clare perspective, we have been just as inconsistent, we had a well below par performance yesterday too. The league in its nature always throws up hot and cold displays, and it always will, Cork, Waterford, KK and Clare form chart is all over the place. Its frustrating but not surprising. I think supporters just have to role with it and try to take some of the positives where they come. Tipp last year weren't up to much at this time but players like Breen, Kennedy and McGrath came through that reaped huge rewards later on. Like the way Stephen Bennett has performed for ye and David Fitz at wing back for us. I know alot of people don't like Derek McGrath's brand of hurling but at least there was improvements each year in his tenure. Waterford had a long season last year it must be said, played two replays as well, so maybe he is just timing his run. We were both flying this time last year, and did't get any silverware during the summer months. I wouldn't be panicking yet.