Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

deisedude

mickotallow wrote: »

Having seen all the 4 teams left in semi finals I would say the main guys to stand out who currently aren't on the Waterford panel are as follows.
1. Shane Kearney - Ballyduff
Like a magnet to the ball and has very good distribution. Would probably struggle to displace Tadgh DeBurca but plays a more attacking role from centre back.
2. Cian Leamy - Ballyduff
No coincidence that Ballyduff's fortunes have changed since he returned from injury to take his place in midfield.
3. Brian O'Sullivan - Ballygunner
Should still be on the panel if not the team. A good year does not gloss over the way he was treated by county board the year before.
4. Peter Hogan - Ballygunner
Lightning quick and knows where the goals are. Links up well with Conor Power who is another good prospect.
5. Conor Gleeson - FMW
Playing time has been limited this year but showed his potential against Roanmore. Playing in roving role he is a great conduit for the team and chips in with scores.
6. Craig Guiry - FMW
Possibly the stand out performer for FMW after Jamie Barron.

As for Tallow, well we have a good mix of youth and experience and as we have no one on the panel, I feel the majority of them would be an addition to the county set up. But I thank god we have no-one on the panel as we can train together with a full squad and get better challenge games.

This brings me to a point I've wanted to raise for a while but only have an opportunity now given the semi-finalists.
Do posters think the effort required by inter-county players is affecting their clubs prospects.

Of the 4 teams left, only Jamie Barron, Stephen O'Keeffe, Barry Coughlan and Phillip Mahony are starters for the inter-county team. There will be more inter-county players in the relegation play-off than either semi- final.
Club teams are obviously at a disadvantage when they cannot train or prepare with their own players due to inter-county commitments. Whatever happened to club before county.

Well I think this year has proven to be the exception rather than the rule. When you look at the county panel now the striking thing to me is the amount of clubs represented and of those clubs there is probably more players from smaller clubs than ever before. If you went back years ago the team might have been backboned by Mount Sion or Ballygunner lads and a scattering of players from the other senior clubs.

Consequently due to the spread of intercounty players I believe you are seeing a more even senior championship

Mountainlad

Yeah like when you look at it De La Salle only have 2 starters on the County team. Mount Sion 1, Dungarvan 0. And these were commonly accepted as the bedt 3 teams outside of Ballygunner at the start of the year. Passage the form team up to the weekend have only 1 as well.

The spread of talent is far more even certainly.

Think Conor Gleeson is on the Waterford panel. Good to hear Leamy going well, hes shown he can play corner back and I think we need another option in there.

deisedude

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah like when you look at it De La Salle only have 2 starters on the County team. Mount Sion 1, Dungarvan 0. And these were commonly accepted as the bedt 3 teams outside of Ballygunner at the start of the year. Passage the form team up to the weekend have only 1 as well.

The spread of talent is far more even certainly.

Think Conor Gleeson is on the Waterford panel. Good to hear Leamy going well, hes shown he can play corner back and I think we need another option in there.

Personally I think Leamy is good enough for intercounty but at midfield not corner back.

Mountainlad

deisedude wrote: »

Personally I think Leamy is good enough for intercounty but at midfield not corner back.

Senior? Few years down the road at least if he is. He has a fair queue to jumpy with the likes of Barron, Moran, Fives, Gleeson, Shane Bennett at least all ahead of him.

deisedude

Mountainlad wrote: »

Senior? Few years down the road at least if he is. He has a fair queue to jumpy with the likes of Barron, Moran, Fives, Gleeson, Shane Bennett at least all ahead of him.

Maybe not quite starting yet but I think a place on the panel isn't out of the question. Long term I think Ozzie and Shane Bennett should be in the forwards with their ability to take scores from play. I know he played corner back for the minor team but he plays all games for Ballyduff at midfield

Mountainlad

deisedude wrote: »

Maybe not quite starting yet but I think a place on the panel isn't out of the question. Long term I think Ozzie and Shane Bennett should be in the forwards with their ability to take scores from play. I know he played corner back for the minor team but he plays all games for Ballyduff at midfield

Ive seen him play wing forward underage. He's a good hurler, but club hurling can flatter to deceive. Dean Twomey looked unreal there in 2011/2012. Not knocking him but inter county hurlers are a different breed to give them their dues.

He has time on his side anyway, be interesting see where he plays next year for the 21s.

The Dickler

mickotallow wrote: »

Club teams are obviously at a disadvantage when they cannot train or prepare with their own players due to inter-county commitments. Whatever happened to club before county.

So are you saying having no players on your team good enough to play inter-county is a good thing?
or
No Ballyduff or Tallow player will play for the county because he puts his commitment to his club team first?

I'm beginning to wonder what planet you're on.

mickotallow

The Dickler wrote: »

So are you saying having no players on your team good enough to play inter-county is a good thing?
or
No Ballyduff or Tallow player will play for the county because he puts his commitment to his club team first?

I'm beginning to wonder what planet you're on.

Where did I say Ballyduff or Tallow did not have players good enough to play inter-county? Or that they didn't want to give the commitment. You'd really want to start paying attention to what people are saying here instead of trying to be a smart ass.
The question I raised was, are clubs paying for the commitment that their players are putting into inter-county team? Does it affect their preparations and are the players coming back drained or not in the right frame of mind to play with their club?
I think it does and that is why I stated that I am glad that Tallow do not have anyone on the inter-county panel. We have prepared very well this year and have been able to get top quality challenge matches because we have a full strength team and are not playing challenge matches with half a team cos our best players are off on a training weekend in Castlemartyr.
If you are so blinkered to other peoples views and only want to stir rather than have a debate on Waterford hurling then I suggest you find some other page to post on.

The Dickler

mickotallow wrote: »

Where did I say Ballyduff or Tallow did not have players good enough to play inter-county? Or that they didn't want to give the commitment. You'd really want to start paying attention to what people are saying here instead of trying to be a smart ass.
The question I raised was, are clubs paying for the commitment that their players are putting into inter-county team? Does it affect their preparations and are the players coming back drained or not in the right frame of mind to play with their club?
I think it does and that is why I stated that I am glad that Tallow do not have anyone on the inter-county panel. We have prepared very well this year and have been able to get top quality challenge matches because we have a full strength team and are not playing challenge matches with half a team cos our best players are off on a training weekend in Castlemartyr.
If you are so blinkered to other peoples views and only want to stir rather than have a debate on Waterford hurling then I suggest you find some other page to post on.

Micko
If you want to have a debate then have a debate and stop throwing your toys out of the pram when someone pulls you up on a point. Now lets debate the above quote of yours above.
Ballyduff and Tallow do not have players good enough for the county panel because there is not any of them on the county panel. Derek McGraths opinion, not yours or mine in this case.

You then have to weigh up the advantages of having your panel intact for training etc against releasing 3,4 or 5 players for inter county duty. It is my strong opinion that the exposure your county players get from been part of a an almost professional set up for the year, even allowing for fatique and injury, brings more to the team than any advantage gained from "training together".
just my humble smart-assed opinion.

DiscoStew

The Dickler wrote: »

Micko
If you want to have a debate then have a debate and stop throwing your toys out of the pram when someone pulls you up on a point. Now lets debate the above quote of yours above.
Ballyduff and Tallow do not have players good enough for the county panel because there is not any of them on the county panel. Derek McGraths opinion, not yours or mine in this case.

You then have to weigh up the advantages of having your panel intact for training etc against releasing 3,4 or 5 players for inter county duty. It is my strong opinion that the exposure your county players get from been part of a an almost professional set up for the year, even allowing for fatique and injury, brings more to the team than any advantage gained from "training together".
just my humble smart-assed opinion.

Mikey Kearney from Ballyduff Upper is be on the county panel.

robopaddy2

The Dickler wrote: »

Micko
If you want to have a debate then have a debate and stop throwing your toys out of the pram when someone pulls you up on a point. Now lets debate the above quote of yours above.
Ballyduff and Tallow do not have players good enough for the county panel because there is not any of them on the county panel. Derek McGraths opinion, not yours or mine in this case.

You then have to weigh up the advantages of having your panel intact for training etc against releasing 3,4 or 5 players for inter county duty. It is my strong opinion that the exposure your county players get from been part of a an almost professional set up for the year, even allowing for fatique and injury, brings more to the team than any advantage gained from "training together".
just my humble smart-assed opinion.

I don't see where Micko has thrown toys out of the pram anywhere above? To be fair you've purposely been trying to draw him out since the weekend so don't see why your so surprised if he did get a bit snappy back but hes been more than a match for you to be fair. The fact that there are so little co senior players left in the championship, Ballyduff, Tallow and FMW have maybe one/two between them adds a lot of substance to his argument.

The Dickler

DiscoStew wrote: »

Mikey Kearney from Ballyduff Upper is be on the county panel.

A player I like to watch butl unfortunately it would appear to some that would be as a serious disadvantage to them when they take on Tallow.

The Dickler

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I don't see where Micko has thrown toys out of the pram anywhere above? To be fair you've purposely been trying to draw him out since the weekend so don't see why your so surprised if he did get a bit snappy back but hes been more than a match for you to be fair. The fact that there are so little co senior players left in the championship, Ballyduff, Tallow and FMW have maybe one/two between them adds a lot of substance to his argument.

Are you Micko's father or something?

Anwser me this the pair of you.
Which of the remaining 3 teams in championship outside to BG is most likely cause a surprise?
Or have neither of you got the courage of your convictions.

robopaddy2

The Dickler wrote: »

Are you Micko's father or something?

Anwser me this the pair of you.
Which of the remaining 3 teams in championship outside to BG is most likely cause a surprise?
Or have neither of you got the courage of your convictions.

A bit petty you talking about courage while you constantly troll from behind a keyboard....

Ballyduff are the most likely to win the co. out of the other 3 imo as they avoid Ballygunner in the semi and wouldn't have any fears in a county final as many of them have been there and won it before. If that's what your question meant

mickotallow

The Dickler wrote: »

Micko
If you want to have a debate then have a debate and stop throwing your toys out of the pram when someone pulls you up on a point. Now lets debate the above quote of yours above.
Ballyduff and Tallow do not have players good enough for the county panel because there is not any of them on the county panel. Derek McGraths opinion, not yours or mine in this case.

You then have to weigh up the advantages of having your panel intact for training etc against releasing 3,4 or 5 players for inter county duty. It is my strong opinion that the exposure your county players get from been part of a an almost professional set up for the year, even allowing for fatique and injury, brings more to the team than any advantage gained from "training together".
just my humble smart-assed opinion.

Well at least you tried to debate this time. Didn't last long though looking at you're later posts.
So let's debate the whole conversation so far.
Yes Derek McGrath is the Waterford manager and his opinion is all that matters when picking the panel. But by your reckoning anyone not on the panel is not good enough to play inter-county. Patrick Curran and Shane Bennett were not on the panel earlier in the year. Were they not good enough then?
But that's beside the point. I'm not questioning Derek's decision. My point was that you stated that I said that Tallow and Ballyduff not having players good enough for the inter-county panel was a good thing or that neither Tallow or Ballyduff players were willing to give the commitment to play inter-county. As I've pointed out previously. I said neither!!!
For the sake of this "Debate" you were claiming I said something I didn't. You were claiming that it was my opinion that neither team had players good enough for the panel. When I have stated in previous posts that both teams have players capable of playing inter- county.

I asked the question whether posters thought that having players on the panel affected their clubs prospects and you have come back with your first serious post in the last few days. Well done, it was actually a constructive argument. Not without merit.
I can only speak from our point of view here but when you have a panel of 20 players and even 2 of them are with the inter-county panel then it does affect your teams preparations. Challenge games are affected because the main fulcrums of your team are missing. Meaning you are weaker and more likely to get beaten and learn less in those challenge matches. Not to mention players who are on the panel but don't play. These players spend the year training but come back under-cooked because they get no game time.
If you don't agree with it then fair enough. I have no problem with that. It's called having your opinion. But don't put up posts saying that I questioned the ability or commitment of these players when I didn't.

mickotallow

The Dickler wrote: »

Are you Micko's father or something?

Anwser me this the pair of you.
Which of the remaining 3 teams in championship outside to BG is most likely cause a surprise?
Or have neither of you got the courage of your convictions.

What a childish post! Are we back in school here or what? Next you'll be telling "your momma" jokes.
Obviously I'm going to say Tallow. What does that prove? That I support my team. Well what a victory for you, that you "forced" me to state the bleeding obvious.
Just to save you time here are some more obvious answers.
1. Yes the sun is hot
2. Water is indeed wet

archieknox

Any truth Derek McGrath was back training DLS for the relegation final? I know both clubs aren't where they want to be but when you have 2 of Lismore's management team and one of their players away in Portugal"golfing"for five days last weekend you would have to think their priorities are elsewhere.
Can only see one outcome here on Sunday.

cookey123

An argument could be made that having a player on a county panel/training panel could hinder development slightly as they are missing out on games, some players form was not great in the early rounds as they were on the panel but receiving very little game time.

deiseach

cookey123 wrote: »

An argument could be made that having a player on a county panel/training panel could hinder development slightly as they are missing out on games, some players form was not great in the early rounds as they were on the panel but receiving very little game time.

I would have thought it was obvious that having a player in the county panel is bad for a club. If he's good enough to be on the county panel then he has to be more than good enough for all but the best club sides, and thankfully the days when the county panel was chock-a-block with players from a handful of clubs are in the past. Not having access to that player has to be bad for the club. The question is, what is to be done about it?

crazyman

cookey123 wrote: »

An argument could be made that having a player on a county panel/training panel could hinder development slightly as they are missing out on games, some players form was not great in the early rounds as they were on the panel but receiving very little game time.

I remember hearing earlier in the year that with players involved in county senior, U21, minor, & college teams, that Ballygunner were having training sessions with only 4 or 5 players available.

Would this be a similar across most clubs?

mickotallow

crazyman wrote: »

I remember hearing earlier in the year that with players involved in county senior, U21, minor, & college teams, that Ballygunner were having training sessions with only 4 or 5 players available.

Would this be a similar across most clubs?

I heard that DLS had issues before championship games where they had no access to players until a week before as they were training with county team.

PTH2009

who does everyone hope we get drawn with in the 2016 Munster Senior Championship ???. I hope we avoid a quarter final draw and get maybe Clare or Limerick in the semis

good draw would be

Clare vs Cork- Qf

Waterford vs Limerick- Sf
Tipperary vs Cork/Clare- SF

worst case would be drawing Tipperary.

tomwaterford

PTH2009 wrote: »

who does everyone hope we get drawn with in the 2016 Munster Senior Championship ???. I hope we avoid a quarter final draw and get maybe Clare or Limerick in the semis

good draw would be

Clare vs Cork- Qf

Waterford vs Limerick- Sf
Tipperary vs Cork/Clare- SF

worst case would be drawing Tipperary.

Would like to see them playing tipp....be a chance to see the system built towards more attacking with a view to beating tipp....
As they had the measure of tipp in the Munster final but lacked experience/know how to beat them...imagine how great twud be to get that weight off there back early in the summer (not beating a team ranked higher in the championship)

JesusRef

mickotallow wrote: »

I heard that DLS had issues before championship games where they had no access to players until a week before as they were training with county team.

Micko you are 100% right having players who are just squad players on the county team is an obvious disadvantage to clubs, I have seen players come back like that and they have gone backwards due to lack of games, sharpness and confidence.

The Dickler

crazyman wrote: »

I remember hearing earlier in the year that with players involved in county senior, U21, minor, & college teams, that Ballygunner were having training sessions with only 4 or 5 players available.

Would this be a similar across most clubs?

This scenario would be very common in Ballygunner, DLS and Mount Sion in recent times.
However you have to ask that having won 17 out of last 20 Waterford SHC's between them along with 4 Minster titles can it really be considered a disadvantage.

The Dickler

mickotallow wrote: »

Obviously I'm going to say Tallow.

Good man Micko. There you go boy, NAIL IT TO THE MAST!!!

And guess what? You've disrespected nobody. (except me maybe, but that's alright)

I feel we did some great work this week.

The Dickler

PTH2009 wrote: »

who does everyone hope we get drawn with in the 2016 Munster Senior Championship ???. I hope we avoid a quarter final draw and get maybe Clare or Limerick in the semis

good draw would be

Clare vs Cork- Qf

Waterford vs Limerick- Sf
Tipperary vs Cork/Clare- SF

worst case would be drawing Tipperary.

I would agree it would be best to avoid Munster quarter final and get as easy a draw as possible in semi. The key is to get that All Ireland quarter final place.
I starting wonder if even beating Tipp early in the Summer would be of any benefit at all later in year.

robopaddy2

PTH2009 wrote: »

who does everyone hope we get drawn with in the 2016 Munster Senior Championship ???. I hope we avoid a quarter final draw and get maybe Clare or Limerick in the semis

good draw would be

Clare vs Cork- Qf

Waterford vs Limerick- Sf
Tipperary vs Cork/Clare- SF

worst case would be drawing Tipperary.

Give me the same draw we got this year I will be happy.

Cake Man

When are they doing the draw?

robopaddy2

Interview with shiner ahearne on the examiner today about the relegation final tomorrow & he says DLS have just been 'a little unlucky' and 'maybe it just hasnt been their year year this year'. Christ what a waste of paper and ink he must have splinters on his arse from sitting on the fence. It like a throwback to the insufferable yes-man mentality from the 80s and 90s that was part and parcel of waterford hurling