Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

Ropaire

carter10 wrote: »

I will respond with an 'insightful, well thought out' response to anyone here who wants to discuss a hurling match not to some bitter small minded fool waiting in the wings for his county to fail so they can jump in an have a pop at the players the first chance they get. Well done you got the result you've been waiting for today/

Hahaha, jesus tonight! So we put in a mesmerising performance today that we should all be euphoric about? Is that what you're saying? With brick missing at centerback our defense was slaughtered and we scored 4 points to their 4-16 1st half. Thats acceptable now?

Slobbery

Look lads it was a tough day at the office and we got a bit of a lesson but no need to get carried away.
A few guys who are normally ultra reliable had bad days (maybe this is a sign that some tough training was done recently) and with brick missing from the centre and Moran having to go off as a blood sub they all have an impact.
A few shots from inexperienced players dropped short - we could have had a few more points..
Remember Tipp absolutely hammered Clare in the league last year. Look how there respective years turned out.
A bit of a reality cheque is no harm, some of the new lads in have had a great start, so it's better they get that kick in the arse now than in championship.
It won't happen overnight but we are on the right track regardless of today - they are a serious outfit and that is the level we need to get too and it will take a few years.
One bad game doesn't make a bad team and they fought as well as could be expected and maintained excellent discipline throughout as well - previous teams would have had individuals who would take the easy way out and end up on the line. There is positives to everything and it sets up a grandstand finish with Kilkenny, win that and fellas will be on here talking about all Ireland's next week

Ropaire

Slobbery wrote: »

Look lads it was a tough day at the office and we got a bit of a lesson but no need to get carried away.
A few guys who are normally ultra reliable had bad days (maybe this is a sign that some tough training was done recently) and with brick missing from the centre and Moran having to go off as a blood sub they all have an impact.
A few shots from inexperienced players dropped short - we could have had a few more points..
Remember Tipp absolutely hammered Clare in the league last year. Look how there respective years turned out.
A bit of a reality cheque is no harm, some of the new lads in have had a great start, so it's better they get that kick in the arse now than in championship.
It won't happen overnight but we are on the right track regardless of today - they are a serious outfit and that is the level we need to get too and it will take a few years.
One bad game doesn't make a bad team and they fought as well as could be expected and maintained excellent discipline throughout as well - previous teams would have had individuals who would take the easy way out and end up on the line. There is positives to everything and it sets up a grandstand finish with Kilkenny, win that and fellas will be on here talking about all Ireland's next week

I'd agree with most of that, how we react to this vs Kilkenny will tell alot about what these younger lads are made of. I can't rem the last time we put two bad games back to back so fingers crossed the response is there.

carter10

Slobbery wrote: »

Look lads it was a tough day at the office and we got a bit of a lesson but no need to get carried away.
A few guys who are normally ultra reliable had bad days (maybe this is a sign that some tough training was done recently) and with brick missing from the centre and Moran having to go off as a blood sub they all have an impact.
A few shots from inexperienced players dropped short - we could have had a few more points..
Remember Tipp absolutely hammered Clare in the league last year. Look how there respective years turned out.
A bit of a reality cheque is no harm, some of the new lads in have had a great start, so it's better they get that kick in the arse now than in championship.
It won't happen overnight but we are on the right track regardless of today - they are a serious outfit and that is the level we need to get too and it will take a few years.
One bad game doesn't make a bad team and they fought as well as could be expected and maintained excellent discipline throughout as well - previous teams would have had individuals who would take the easy way out and end up on the line. There is positives to everything and it sets up a grandstand finish with Kilkenny, win that and fellas will be on here talking about all Ireland's next week

Agreed, there are always bad days when building a team and today was one of them. Cant see us getting a win in Nolan park which will leave us in a play off with -probably- Tipp who I think we can beat as they are a shambles at the moment and we should have home advantage for that.

Motivator

carter10 wrote: »

Good man, youre some hero alright #muppet

But he's 100% right.

Hashtag clown.

deisedude

**** sake lads. Ye were the same ones singing from the rooftops last week when we beat Dublin with 14 men. Waterford don't deserve to win anything with the attitude of some of ye so called fans. Always ****ing looking to stick the knife in. Granted it was a terrible performance but the attitude of some on here is sickeningly bitter

Deise Doodler

Ropaire wrote: »

I hope there's some kind of reaction from the players vs Kilkenny, they got the first 2 scores and left something like 4-16 in against what's supposed to be our much vaunted defense over the rest of the first half. The same as usual in the forward line with miscued shots dribbling short or going a mile wide with no sniff of a goal bar a badly struck 21 meter free over the whole 70 mins. They shafted Michael Ryan saying he wasn't up to scratch and then go on to put in a display like that? Whose to blame this time, surely not Derek the messiah they wanted instead Skully? Other counties have a bad view of us between the Ballysaggart thing, the player movement against Skully and they'll see a performance like today and say "who do they think they are below in Waterford". We weren't at the races anywhere at all today and a response to that is badly needed against Kilkenny. Thank Christ it's only the league and there's time to try and put some of that right before championship time!

Now Michael , don't be getting exited, am sure Jimmy Barry and Ger still think your great, your right ,feck the All Ireland , the popularity contest is far more important,

Ropaire

Deise Doodler wrote: »

Now Michael , don't be getting exited, am sure Jimmy Barry and Ger still think your great, your right ,feck the All Ireland , the popularity contest is far more important,

Which is why I said thank christ it's the league, haha. Holy God says Miley, point out that the county team gots slaughtered after the crap thats gone on the last year and yer branded all sorts on here. Go bury yer heads in the sand lads, i hope we win v kilkenny and i'm sure ye'll paper over the cracks if we do. Hurrah for Waterford.

Deise Doodler

Ropaire wrote: »

Which is why I said thank christ it's the league, haha. Holy God says Miley, point out that the county team gots slaughtered after the crap thats gone on the last year and yer branded all sorts on here. Go bury yer heads in the sand lads, i hope we win v kilkenny and i'm sure ye'll paper over the cracks if we do. Hurrah for Waterford.[/QUOTE

don't think it needed pointing out to anyone, it was fairly obvious, but a little bit more constructive criticism rather than over exited sensationalism and bitterness might have been received a little better, Sticking the Knife in ref last year is a load of nonsense and I think you will find the players are feeling that kick in the ass today a little sharper than you. yea we have a long way to go and the truth is we may not have the goods to achieve what we all want, but hey that's sport. As for hoping we win against Kilkenny ( which I have to say you don't sound to convincing) it wont be about papering over our cracks as much as it will be about enjoying the fact the they can have cracks to

PTH2009

Hope to god I'm wrong but can't see us winning next weekend. Let's hope we put in a good performance and boost our confidence for the relagation playoff against tipp ( will be played in nowlan park I'd say).

We are now 5th and if we lose I don't think we will move position. I can see Galway and Dublin winning next weekend so that's us fecked lol. It's been a good league so far. Pity our competition will be over on the 30th.

IanVW

Anyone have any idea what possibility we have of making the quarters and way will results need to go for us?

PTH2009

IanVW wrote: »

Anyone have any idea what possibility we have of making the quarters and way will results need to go for us?

We have to win

I thought the league was decided by head to head but it's by point difference and dublin are level on scoring with us -7 but are in 4th

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

We have to win

I thought the league was decided by head to head but it's by point difference and dublin are level on scoring with us -7 but are in 4th

It is head to head, as long as just 2 teams finish level on points. More than 2 and it goes to points diff.

A win next week will put us into the quarter final

A draw next week will put us into the quarter final as long as Dublin and Galway dont both win

A loss next week combined with a Tipp and Galway defeat will see us into the quarter final

A loss next week combined with Dublin and Galway defeat would see it going down to points difference.

Think I have that correct, could be wrong on a bit of it though

robopaddy

Ropaire wrote: »

Which is why I said thank christ it's the league, haha. Holy God says Miley, point out that the county team gots slaughtered after the crap thats gone on the last year and yer branded all sorts on here. Go bury yer heads in the sand lads, i hope we win v kilkenny and i'm sure ye'll paper over the cracks if we do. Hurrah for Waterford.

Well you never mentioned anything about michael ryan or papering over cracks after our last 2 wins against dublin and galway. Its just the usual rubbish after we lose a game its everyone elses fault and we are a joke of a county bla bla

Yesterday was a tough lesson but nothing else. Any realistic supporter knows that it is very early days and we are a work in progress. Move on from yesterday. **** happens. Look to the next day we are going up to nowlan park with a big point to prove. Yesterday does not leave a realistic reflection of where were at, nor do the wins against galway or dublin necessarily judging by their results at the weekend. This league is a bit mad anything can happen as weve seen.

If everything we do wrong this year is going to be relayed back to the michael ryan saga then I think your the one with your head buried very much in the sand

alllcounty

I think the management team will have to jot this down as a learning experience. As powerful a performance Clare delivered today I think we could have matched them if we had deployed a two man full forward line in the first half and used the extra man as a sweeper between our half back line and full back line when Clare had the wind blowing directly down the field. Maybe Barry Coughlan could have been used to do this job with one of our corner forwards losing out.

In any event going forward I think this is the only way Clare can be beaten in the championship. We saw last year Queally adopting this policy against an incredible Clare U21 team. He got criticism from some on here saying he was too negative. However with 15 mins to go we were leading by 2 points in that game before we had a man sent off and the space opened up for them. This Clare team are very ruthless up front because they are given space to do as they please. Cut that off and we can then get on top of them. Hopefully something will be learned from today's game and a plan will be put in place to counteract Clare's possession game of working the ball to their inside forwards that have the space and speed to open up opposition backs.

dzilla

Learning experience yesterday. I would rather have our ars3s handed to us in March than in the middle of the summer. Hopefully Derek and the team learn from the negatives yesterday. Get a win or a draw next week to show the desire and avoid relegation and this will be all forgotten.

alllcounty

dzilla wrote: »

Learning experience yesterday. I would rather have our ars3s handed to us in March than in the middle of the summer. Hopefully Derek and the team learn from the negatives yesterday. Get a win or a draw next week to show the desire and avoid relegation and this will be all forgotten.

Yes it was a learning experience. You learn more about what you are doing wrong in defeat and that is why yesterdays performance can be a positive thing going forward. The management team now should understand how good this Clare team really are, and to go 15 on 15 with them will not work now and it will not work 3 years from now.

We can simply move on to the next game and learn nothing from yesterdays result if you want, but then the mistake of not protecting the full back line will be made again. This is a learning curve for the management that involves a project for 3 years, yesterdays result should be firstly understood where it went wrong and then what can be done to not let it happen again.

Ropaire

robopaddy wrote: »

Well you never mentioned anything about michael ryan or papering over cracks after the last after our last 2 wins against dublin and galway. Its just the usual rubbish after we lose a game its everyone fault and we are a joke of a county bla bla

Yesterday was a tough lesson but nothing else. Any realistic supporter knows that it is very early days and we are a work in progress. Move on from yesterday. **** happens. Look to the next day we are going up to nowlan park with a big point to prove. Yesterday does not leave a realistic reflection of where were at, nor do the wins against galway or dublin necessarily judging by their results at the weekend. This league is a bit mad anything can happen as weve seen.

If everything we do wrong this year is going to be relayed back to the michael ryan saga then I think your the one with your had very much in the sand

Nope, I think you have me confuded with someone else. After the Tipp game I said:

Ropaire wrote: »

We didn't have forwards for half that game, it was a complete mess tactically. We did look fitter than tipp and the work rate was good to see, lads giving each other plenty of support. I don't think the forwards lost it as much as our insistence on playing so deep we only had 1 forward for the second half. Maurice was decent, won a few frees but took on too many shots from tight angles. Pauric Mahony showed for alot of ball and kept plugging away but he couldn't buy a score from play, better in overall general play than he was last year though. Jake fluffed his lines badly, miss hit a handy score late on when we needed one, Pender just fouled people when he came on. If we don't have the forwards we're in trouble. Wouldn't hurt to try lads like darragh fives, donie breanach and ray barry up there to hell, they can't do worse than what was up there last night! We need to try something or we're getting relegated, cos the rest of the games won't be as handy as that was.

After the Galway game I said:

Ropaire wrote: »

Good performance but we retreated out the field a bit 2nd half instead of going for goals, not really a criticism as we were wind assisted. 1st half we could have had 1 or 2 goals bar some cynical defending but after the horror show up front vs tipp we may learn to walk before we run. Good progress made, who's next? Dublin at home?

And after Dublin i said:

Ropaire wrote: »

Great showing from our backs, forwards sat far too deep though and we hit alot of aimless ball forward that a better team would have made us pay for. Mahony went a bit cold after takin a sore looking hit too but a win is a win is a win, roll on Clare.

As for yesterday, I wouldn't bother talking about the second half as Clare never came out of the dressing room after their cupán tae. They aren't a ruthless team as we know, they let Cork back into the All Ireland after stretching out a 10 point lead and they could have totally destroyed us yesterday but took their foot off the pedal.
We left our fullback isolated and totally exposed inside with O'Donnell as our corner backs got sucked way out the field, Moran was non existant at center back and never got going (how could he with the mass of bodies clogging up the middle of the pitch?), while again we kept our forward line very withdrawn so that at times we were lucky to have 2 players in their half on occasions that we did manage to clear ball. The sliotar just came straight back down the field and over the bar as we didn't show anywhere near the workrate we had vs Dublin and players looked shellshocked.
Its a learning experience as people have said, but thinking about how we were set up I don't see much learning or any sort of plan B being ready for when we're tactically outwitted and need to change tac. As I said before, its the league and now is the time to take a pasting if we're going to get one so we have a chance to sort it out for the summer. Alot of young players on that team yesterday may have been affected by that hiding though, we need a big performance vs Kilkenny for morale as much as anything.

hurler on de ditch

alllcounty wrote: »

Yes it was a learning experience. You learn more about what you are doing wrong in defeat and that is why yesterdays performance can be a positive thing going forward. The management team now should understand how good this Clare team really are, and to go 15 on 15 with them will not work now and it will not work 3 years from now.

We can simply move on to the next game and learn nothing from yesterdays result if you want, but then the mistake of not protecting the full back line will be made again. This is a learning curve for the management that involves a project for 3 years, yesterdays result should be firstly understood where it went wrong and then what can be done to not let it happen again.

a learning curve since 1963,and to think that clare cant be beaten going 15 to 15 is quiet simply bollix

Deise_2012

Is Paudie Mahony alright for next sunday?

thinkstoomuch1

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

a learning curve since 1963,and to think that clare cant be beaten going 15 to 15 is quiet simply bollix

Name the last meningful game clare were beat ?since june 15 v 15.


Its impossible to beat a sweeper going orthdox 15 against there way .

Its truly bo**ix to say otherwise.


Yesterday was a valuable lesson to waterford and all ,if and only if lessons are learned.

alllcounty

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

a learning curve since 1963,and to think that clare cant be beaten going 15 to 15 is quiet simply bollix

As I see it if Clare are given space for their inside forwards they will put us away. The alternative maybe would be to play our half backs deeper in front of the full back line and bring our half forward out around midfield to cut off the space within our own 65 yard line. There was a problem yesterday the way the team was set up. Noel Connors, Shane Fives and Stephen O Keeffe are all good hurlers but yesterday they were given no chance and were beating by fast forwards that were given space to do what they want.

I know it is a hard pill to swallow, we should be genuinely contesting all irelands but the fact is that Clare team are better than us on the ball. They are constantly looking up when on the ball, they are very comfortable under pressure and their awareness of options around them is better than our lads. It is up to us to now devise a plan to counteract their quick touches and movement. We can beat them but to do so we need to eliminate the space they are given between our full back line and half back line. If we can do that then the foundation for us to beat them will have been built.

Brad1234

As I pointed out the difference between brick at centre back and Moran was as clear as mud yesterday. There was absolutely no one sweeping even at orthodox 6. Problem with the style Waterford are trying means unfortunately they're will be pastings and poor days ahead before gets better,

My big question mark is do we have the pace up top to play it. There wasn't a slower man on the pitch yesterday than Dillon unfortunately who is our most natural forward. We've no podge Collins popping about making it look like they've an extra man when it's just he has a free role. We got as much space in our full line as they did but don't have any finishers, Brian o Sullivan got 4 points cause he had yards to run into all day.

People with ryan agendas are just daft. He did an adequate job but there was no progress there, this set up looks professional organised with a long term plan. There will be rough days I've no doubt but ryan was building little long term, struggling to get coaches and selectors is never a good sign. I'd thank him for his work and his achievements not to be sniffed at but even likes of dan in back room team players can approach him for his knowledge on heavy days like this and little things like that are all a positive.

Get molomphy out the middle for me too. Looks off the pace at half forward

avonmore

Brad1234 wrote: »

As I pointed out the difference between brick at centre back and Moran was as clear as mud yesterday. There was absolutely no one sweeping even at orthodox 6. Problem with the style Waterford are trying means unfortunately they're will be pastings and poor days ahead before gets better,

My big question mark is do we have the pace up top to play it. There wasn't a slower man on the pitch yesterday than Dillon unfortunately who is our most natural forward. We've no podge Collins popping about making it look like they've an extra man when it's just he has a free role. We got as much space in our full line as they did but don't have any finishers, Brian o Sullivan got 4 points cause he had yards to run into all day.

There's substance in what you say but I think a big problem is not that we don't have the finishers but that we don't have guys close to goal with the wit and guile to pick them out.

Twice yesterday, in the first twenty minutes, Ray Barry and Brian O'Sullivan ran clear into great positions for passes behind the Clare full back line but both times Seamus and young Donnelly didn't even look up or either have the awareness, experience or intelligence to pick them out. Each time both would have been straight through on goal.

That awareness and intelligence with ball in hand was a real difference yesterday. Paudie Mah is our most intelligent forward but we need him at centre forward.

For all the honesty and endeavour that Seamus brings, he will never bring this to his game. Shane Walsh is definitely more aware in this sphere but unfortunately lacks the mobility at this stage..

Our style of play is a work in progress but at the moment we don't have guys like O'Donelll that Clare have to pull the strings.

Until we find them we will struggle for goals.

robopaddy

Just watched the recorded clare game as I missed it on sunday (albeit it fast forwarded through much of it). It really is a game which leaves us with more questions than answers. A couple of lads I think who were going well up until now were found out a bit. Next weekends team selection will be interesting as I think it will start to look a lot more like our championship team. Or should do anyway. But I think a lot of lads who havent featured in the league will come into the reckoning come the championship.
I would think if liam lawlor and steven daniels are back fit they will be in contention for the full back line. Richie Foley and Brian O halloran aswell. Stephen Bennett will be thereabouts aswell given our lack of goalscoring options. Its good to have blooded some of the lads that we have but I think we saw on sunday some of them are a bit off championship pace yet. Because thats the mode clare were in for that first half.

O Riain

Havent had a chance to watch the game yet but what did Clare score unreplied? 4-14? Did management not learn after the first 2-07 that a problem needed fixing?

Deise_2012

If Waterford get a win or draw in KK they've a QF. Lose by 6 or more & it's a relegation playoff. Lose by 1 to 6, get the calculators out.

Ropaire

O Riain wrote: »

Havent had a chance to watch the game yet but what did Clare score unreplied? 4-14? Did management not learn after the first 2-07 that a problem needed fixing?

Apparently it was a "learning experience"!

Deise_2012

Ropaire wrote: »

Apparently it was a "learning experience"!

better to be talking about it in March than in the Summer!

quintain

Ropaire wrote: »

Apparently it was a "learning experience"!

Deise_2012 wrote: »

better to be talking about it in March than in the Summer!

Oh I'd say Ropaire would love to be talking about it in the summer as well !!