The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

Holy Hand Grenade

FunLover18 wrote: »

Just finished my chronological re-read (absolutely recommended), and just skimmed through this thread.

I don't think Jon's dead to be honest, I think he'll be back.

Re the Volanqar, does the prophecy actually say "her volanqar" or just "the volanqar" I agree that I think it's more like to be Jaime than Tyrion but I also think it could be Stannis ... and just come to me as I type, could it be Tommen?

The thing about Arya that really interests me is the constant referencing to Nymeria and her giant wolf pack. They get mentioned for too often for them not to be significant in some way.

I have no idea what to think about Aegon.

I'm pretty sure Nymeria and her pack are gonna play some important role in the future. I don't think their greatest achievement will be having "saved" Catelyn.

hidinginthebush

Holy Hand Grenade wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Nymeria and her pack are gonna play some important role in the future. I don't think their greatest achievement will be having "saved" Catelyn.

She absolutely has to be reunited with Arya. Even GRRM wouldn't be so cruel as to not let them two meet up and become an unstoppable force of vengeance.

Mr Freeze

hidinginthebush wrote: »

Even GRRM wouldn't be so cruel....

Really?

Have you learnt nothing? :pac:

Paddy Cow

hidinginthebush wrote: »

She absolutely has to be reunited with Arya. Even GRRM wouldn't be so cruel as to not let them two meet up and become an unstoppable force of vengeance.

A lot of people think that if Jon is dead he will warge into Ghost but I think it is more likely that Arya will get killed and warg into Nymeria.

nerd69

Paddy Cow wrote: »

A lot of people think that if Jon is dead he will warge into Ghost but I think it is more likely that Arya will get killed and warg into Nymeria.

dont think so would make all the faceless man stuff pointless

TheIrishGrover

hidinginthebush wrote: »

She absolutely has to be reunited with Arya. Even GRRM wouldn't be so cruel as to not let them two meet up and become an unstoppable force of vengeance.

You know nothing Jon Snow um... hidinginthebush.

TBH, I can't see them meeting. I do love the whole Nymeria pack thing though. Love how it's been done, (It's been a while since I finished the books but isn't her pack in the hundreds now?) how there are nice references by characters talking about this mysterious wolf pack.

Like most, I believe that jon will warg into Ghost (That was the whole point of the Johnny nine-skins (Or whatever his name was) chapter. He'll warg into Ghost. Because of their connection he won't be subsumed totally by Ghost but part of his personality will change/majority of his memory lost. When he wargs back into another human again he won't be the Jon we know (He may not even remember he is Jon. Just someone on a vague mission of vengeance.

This would be a VERY handy out for Martin. Frees Jon from his duties at the Wall, gives him a "new" character that already has (in the books anyway) a popular following and still has a long back story for Martin to use. He can send him north of the wall as there needs to be a POV character there or keep him with the wildlings just south of the wall. As with other theories mentioned though, this may be just too predictable for Martin.

Turtyturd

I really don't like the 'too predictable for Martin' line.

If something is the natural progression/conclusion of an arc then it should be followed through regardless of if it is predictable or not. Not everything has to come as a major shock...Jon's parentage being the obvious example. The majority of readers had pieced it together by the time they had finished the books, and I remember Martin saying that he might change it because of that. Personally I feel there is no need to do that, it's the standard heroes journey of the orphan (bastard) that people will root for.

FunLover18

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

You know nothing Jon Snow um... hidinginthebush.

TBH, I can't see them meeting. I do love the whole Nymeria pack thing though. Love how it's been done, (It's been a while since I finished the books but isn't her pack in the hundreds now?) how there are nice references by characters talking about this mysterious wolf pack.

Hasn't one of the characters guessed it's Nymeria? Was it Jaime suspected it was the direwolf that attacked Joff. I'd love them to play some part but I don't know what, they're too far south to aid Stannis in the North and my guess is that if there's anyone/thing they'll be involved with it will be the Starks or Winterfell but they're miles from both.

The dream would be Nymeria hunting down Ramsay, maybe Arya as Nymeria ... or Bran

Paddy Cow

nerd69 wrote: »

dont think so would make all the faceless man stuff pointless

Arya is a loose cannon who is using the faceless men to learn how to become a killer so she can exact her revenge. She could take some of them out and still get killed herself and warg into Nymeria. It's too predictable that she goes on a revenge spree and comes out of it unscathed and she's too full of hate to become a true faceless man.

Paddy Cow

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

You know nothing Jon Snow um... hidinginthebush.

TBH, I can't see them meeting. I do love the whole Nymeria pack thing though. Love how it's been done, (It's been a while since I finished the books but isn't her pack in the hundreds now?) how there are nice references by characters talking about this mysterious wolf pack.

Like most, I believe that jon will warg into Ghost (That was the whole point of the Johnny nine-skins (Or whatever his name was) chapter. He'll warg into Ghost. Because of their connection he won't be subsumed totally by Ghost but part of his personality will change/majority of his memory lost. When he wargs back into another human again he won't be the Jon we know (He may not even remember he is Jon. Just someone on a vague mission of vengeance.

This would be a VERY handy out for Martin. Frees Jon from his duties at the Wall, gives him a "new" character that already has (in the books anyway) a popular following and still has a long back story for Martin to use. He can send him north of the wall as there needs to be a POV character there or keep him with the wildlings just south of the wall. As with other theories mentioned though, this may be just too predictable for Martin.

Warging into a human is no joke and if anyone was likely to do it, it would be Bran. He has experience of it from warging into Hodor and despite Hodor not being the most strong minded person, Bran still had a hard job controlling him.

I don't think Jon will warg into Ghost and don't see any advantage to him warging into another person. I think Robb's letter naming Jon as his heir will come into play somehow.

FunLover18

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Warging into a human is no joke and if anyone was likely to do it, it would be Bran. He has experience of it from warging into Hodor and despite Hodor not being the most strong minded person, Bran still had a hard job controlling him.

I don't think Jon will warg into Ghost and don't see any advantage to him warging into another person. I think Robb's letter naming Jon as his heir will come into play somehow.

Completely forgot about that ... was that in the book? What happened it? I presume it absolved Jon of his vows

December2012

FunLover18 wrote: »

Completely forgot about that ... was that in the book? What happened it? I presume it absolved Jon of his vows

It's part of the Northern Conspiracy

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1iwfc1/spoilers_all_the_grand_northern_conspiracy_parts/

RobbingBandit

Some stuff I have been thinking about.

Rickon is in Skagos with Osha (Davos is told to go find him on the island with Cannibals)

Bran is with the Three Eyed Crow. Who may eventually Warg into him so as to have a semi usable body, more usable than his tree hybrid form.

If and when both emerge which one will become the heir to Winterfell?

Will Stannis if still alive use Rickon to burn him due to his kings blood or use him to rally the north to his cause?

I can see Ilyn Payne dying and Jamie becoming the new King's Justice or just joining that role to his own as the Lord Commander of The Kings Guard, therefore he will upon return to Kings Landing be the one to execute Cersei if she is condemned to die.

GerB40

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Some stuff I have been thinking about.

Rickon is in Skagos with Osha (Davos is told to go find him on the island with Cannibals)

Bran is with the Three Eyed Crow. Who may eventually Warg into him so as to have a semi usable body, more usable than his tree hybrid form.

If and when both emerge which one will become the heir to Winterfell?

Will Stannis if still alive use Rickon to burn him due to his kings blood or use him to rally the north to his cause?

I can see Ilyn Payne dying and Jamie becoming the new King's Justice or just joining that role to his own as the Lord Commander of The Kings Guard, therefore he will upon return to Kings Landing be the one to execute Cersei if she is condemned to die.

Sorry but I have to disagree with basically every thing you said.
1) If the three eyed raven is so powerful (he can control Coldhands) then why would he warg into a cripple?. Why not a white walker or full bodied fighter?.
2) The eldest son will always be the heir, just like monarchy today. Therefore Bran would be the legal heir, should they both emerge.
3) Why would Rickon be burned for kings blood? His father was the warden & protector of the north, not a king.
4) I reckon the Jaime story arc would suggest he's more of a pacifist now and would not be directly responsible for his sisters death. (Although that valonqar prophesy is a pain in the arsé puzzle.)
But knowing GRRMs writing style you could be 100% correct. It's tough to predict where this amazing story is headed...

RobbingBandit

1. Because Bran is also a Warg that can take control of humans as seen when he warged into Hodor. I also recall Jojen reed having a dream where a winged wolf was chained and being attacked by the three eyed raven, to me that seems a reversal of the situation of the three eyed raven as his body has grown into the three.

2.Bran is a cripple, the northmen won't follow him any more than he could become a knight, where do you think this is we are talking about, Dorne? :P

3.Robb aka The King in the North is why Rickon would be burned for Kings blood, same blood flows in him as it did in Robb, one of the main reasons Jon sent Maestar Aemon away is he feared Melisandre would burn him due to him being a brother and uncle of Targaryen kings and queens.

4. The Jamie line is a theory.

FunLover18

Bran was chained by his crippled body. The Three eyed throw was trying to get him to fly, through warging. Npw they've met that's exactly what Bran is doing. Bran is a cripple and his body is almost as useless as the three-eyed crow's

Mr Freeze

Do we have any idea how Brynden Rivers ended up beyond the wall as the Three Eyed Crow?

I just want this book now, I wouldn't leave the house all weekend if I had it.

Tom.D.BJJ

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Do we have any idea how Brynden Rivers ended up beyond the wall as the Three Eyed Crow?

I just want this book now, I wouldn't leave the house all weekend if I had it.

All we know for sure is that he was sent to the wall and rose to become Lord Commander. How he ventured out above the wall and became the three eyed crow, we'll have to wait and see although it might relate to the Night's king (Coldhands?)

RobbingBandit

The Child of the Forest has keep him alive by infusing him with the roots in the cave he is trapped in, given his past I think no good can come from him, he is The Other.

Riamfada

I think Melisadre will bring Jon back al la Thoros of Myr bringing back everyone.

GerB40

Riamfada wrote: »

I think Melisadre will bring Jon back al la Thoros of Myr bringing back everyone.

People say that this is too predictable for GRRM but it makes too much sense not to happen. Not everything George writes has to be a massive twist, that would eventually f*ck up the narrative..

Mr.Prodston

The World of Ice and Fire (the coffee table book) may be out in October. It may tide us over for a while.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/360175.html

December2012

Just having a thought here - if Tommen dies does the throne go to Jamie then Tyrion?


Male relatives over female relatives?

RobbingBandit

December2012 wrote: »

Just having a thought here - if Tommen dies does the throne go to Jamie then Tyrion?


Male relatives over female relatives?

Jamie is Kings Guard, same as the crows, no land, no wife, no kids. Tyrion is wanted for Regicide(not really) and being a Kinslayer. By the end of the Winds of Winter Tommen and the Lannister clan will have lost their claim to the throne, I just hope G RR Martin doesn't go as far as to kill the kid.

Witcher

The Baratheon's are the royal family not the Lannisters so the throne would pass to Stannis as his closest paternal relative.

We already know Stannis is the rightful king but in the eyes of others he would be too.

RobbingBandit

Blay wrote: »

The Baratheon's are the royal family not the Lannisters so the throne would pass to Stannis as his closest paternal relative.

We already know Stannis is the rightful king but in the eyes of everyone else he would be too.

Stannis is either dead or going to die and is therefore meant for bigger things, he will end up as a prominent White Walker, the throne will go to either Aegon(if that is who he really is) Danearyes or someone from left field.

FunLover18

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Stannis is either dead or going to die and is therefore meant for bigger things, he will end up as a prominent White Walker, the throne will go to either Aegon(if that is who he really is) Danearyes or someone from left field.

Stannis is going to flay Roose Bolton to the bone :mad:

RobbingBandit

FunLover18 wrote: »

Stannis is going to flay Roose Bolton to the bone :mad:

Hope that happens first but I do think he will end up as a White Walker Danearyes is Azor Ahai reborn rather than Stannis even if he has the sword.

FunLover18

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Hope that happens first but I do think he will end up as a White Walker Danearyes is Azor Ahai reborn rather than Stannis even if he has the sword.

But he's south of the Wall ... Has there ever been a white walker south of the Wall

Paddy Cow

Would the throne not go to Myrcella? When Robb thought Bran and Sansa were dead, the next in line was Sansa. Was that because Robb had no Uncles or male cousins?