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The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

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    #362
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    Which would make sense in the context of Maggies prophecy if he wins.

    Which prophecy is that?


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    #363
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    December2012 wrote: »
    Which prophecy is that?
    Valonqar


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    #364
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Valonqar

    Hasn't thought of it that way - so the younger brother in this case is Sandor, who kills Gregor?


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    #365
    Burt Macklin
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Burt Macklin


    December2012 wrote: »
    Hasn't thought of it that way - so the younger brother in this case is Sandor, who kills Gregor?

    Ehh, I'm confused now, was the prophecy not that Cersei was to be killed by her Valonqar, i.e. younger brother? Don't know how it could affect the Cleganes.


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    #366
    Washington Irving
    Registered Users Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭Washington Irving


    Burt Macklin wrote: »
    Ehh, I'm confused now, was the prophecy not that Cersei was to be killed by her Valonqar, i.e. younger brother? She assumes this to be Tyrion, but it could also be Jaime.

    That's what I've always thought too, but there are theories that she isn't necessarily killed by her younger brother. So I assume TimeToShine buys into that theory which would lend itself to Sandor Clegane representing the Faith winning the trial by combat vs Robert Strong and thus essentially 'killing' Cersei.


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    #367
    Burt Macklin
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Burt Macklin


    Washington Irving wrote: »
    That's what I've always thought too, but there are theories that she isn't necessarily killed by her younger brother. So I assume TimeToShine buys into that theory which would lend itself to Sandor Clegane representing the Faith winning the trial by combat vs Robert Strong and thus essentially 'killing' Cersei.

    But doesn't it says that (and I'm paraphrasing here) her life will end with the valonquar's hands around her throat? That sounds pretty specific to me, Sandor winning the trial doesn't quite fit the bill.
    Also places doubt on the Jaime theory as he only has the one hand.


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    #368
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Burt Macklin wrote: »
    But doesn't it says that (and I'm paraphrasing here) her life will end with the valonquar's hands around her throat? That sounds pretty specific to me, Sandor winning the trial doesn't quite fit the bill.
    Also places doubt on the Jaime theory as he only has the one hand.

    As I really, really can't see Tyrion making it back to Westeros before Cersei is killed I think that the trial by combat might decide her fate. I'd probably rather Tyrion do it but it's very unlikely, and as you said Jaime's lack of a hand technically puts him out of the running.


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    #369
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    ^ He still has one hand, and Cersei has a skinny neck.


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    #370
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Tyrion managed to kill Shae with "hands" around her neck!


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    #371
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    Tyrion managed to kill Shae with "hands" around her neck!

    I thought he kept twisting the gold chain around her neck until he choked her?

    EDIT. oh I get it now. Bit slow this morning ;)


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    #372
    Holy Hand Grenade
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Holy Hand Grenade


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    ^ He still has one hand, and Cersei has a skinny neck.

    Plus one backup golden hand.


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    #373
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Never thought of that "Hands" thing. Huh............ The only thing that's stopping me being absolutely sure that it's going to be Jamie who kills Cercie is that it just seems a bit too obvious for Martin's style.

    Well, I suppose we'll find out by the end of this year when the book's out

    cryhappy.gif


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    #374
    chickenboy
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭chickenboy


    Does anyone have any crackpot theories they'd like to share? There's one going around Reddit at the moment that the new high septon is actually Howland Reed, which is strangely compelling!


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    #375
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    chickenboy wrote: »
    Does anyone have any crackpot theories they'd like to share? There's one going around Reddit at the moment that the new high septon is actually Howland Reed, which is strangely compelling!

    Link me!


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    #376
    Burt Macklin
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Burt Macklin


    Here's a collection of theories from westeros.org

    http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79775-a-compendium-of-theories/

    Some of these are quite plausible and clever eg, Frey Pie, Northern conspiracy, Vary-Ilyrio conspiracy, but a few are pretty unlikely.

    There are some real crackpot ones on reddit too, like that Ramsay Bolton is Azor Ahai.


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    #377
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    chickenboy wrote: »
    Does anyone have any crackpot theories they'd like to share? There's one going around Reddit at the moment that the new high septon is actually Howland Reed, which is strangely compelling!

    That's a good one?

    Another Howland Reed is that Jojen is Howland too. Howland is safe at home in the marshes, but has warged into Jojen.

    The Frey Pie is probably true.

    The Northern conspiracy is harder to believe.

    The Vary-Ilyrio conspiracy I completely subscribe too, those 2 are actively planning to change the rule of Westeros, thats no secret.


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    #378
    chickenboy
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭chickenboy


    Kunkka wrote: »
    Link me!

    http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1yljs8/spoilers_all_high_septon_tinfoil_theory/


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    #379
    chickenboy
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭chickenboy


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    The Vary-Ilyrio conspiracy I completely subscribe too, those 2 are actively planning to change the rule of Westeros, thats no secret.

    I'm still convinced that Varys is a Targaryen / Blackfyre, and is working to bring them back on the throne.


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    #380
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    chickenboy wrote: »
    I'm still convinced that Varys is a Targaryen / Blackfyre, and is working to bring them back on the throne.

    I'd say Illyrio could be married to a Blackfyre anyways.

    I never really suspected Varys of being either a Targaryen or Blackfyre. But you can't believe a word he says, but wasn't he hired by The Mad King, when they heard of his talents?


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    #381
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    I love the Northern Conspiracy!


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    #382
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    chickenboy wrote: »
    Does anyone have any crackpot theories they'd like to share? There's one going around Reddit at the moment that the new high septon is actually Howland Reed, which is strangely compelling!
    My memory is hazy about this High Septon but wouldn't Howland Reed, a crannogman, worship the Old Gods of the North? How would a layman of one faith have the knowledge to masquarade as a cleric of another?


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    #383
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    Question to anyone frequenting forums before ADWD. Were there as many plot ideas before it's release & did many foresee what was going to happen prior to it's release? I'm just wondering if all the discussion of what GRRM is going to do is completely pissing in to the wind!


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    #384
    chickenboy
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭chickenboy


    Duckworth_Luas wrote: »
    My memory is hazy about this High Septon but wouldn't Howland Reed, a crannogman, worship the Old Gods of the North? How would a layman of one faith have the knowledge to masquarade as a cleric of another?

    Again, I've a slightly hazy memory, but the new High Septon claimed to be a wandering septon, travelling around to small villages and such. He seems to have built up his reputation based on humility, piety and hard work rather than an academic knowledge of the faith, and was unknown to the upper echelons of the church before the sparrows barged in and demanded that he take the position.


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    #385
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Kunkka wrote: »
    I'm just wondering if all the discussion of what GRRM is going to do is completely pissing in to the wind!

    I'd like to know this too!


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    #386
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    chickenboy wrote: »
    Again, I've a slightly hazy memory, but the new High Septon claimed to be a wandering septon, travelling around to small villages and such. He seems to have built up his reputation based on humility, piety and hard work rather than an academic knowledge of the faith, and was unknown to the upper echelons of the church before the sparrows barged in and demanded that he take the position.


    I had heard another theory that the new High Septon is Varys in disguise. Or working in concert with Varys.


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    #387
    hidinginthebush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,679 ✭✭✭hidinginthebush


    Kunkka wrote: »
    Question to anyone frequenting forums before ADWD. Were there as many plot ideas before it's release & did many foresee what was going to happen prior to it's release? I'm just wondering if all the discussion of what GRRM is going to do is completely pissing in to the wind!

    Popular Theories before AFFC/ADWD

    What are the most significant fan theories that have come true?

    What are some popular theories that were disproven when ADWD came out?

    Past Fan theory compilation

    And many more here

    I will add though that I gave up on reading the theories a while ago. What got me hooked on the series was that the central character was killed at the end, it was a complete and utter shock. And most every book since then has has some complete "WTF!" moment that blows you away. There are so many theories abounding now that I'm worried that (a) I won't be shocked when some new surprise drops, or even worse (b) Martin decides he has to come up with new zaney wild ploy twists as everything he had planned has been figured out.

    I'm happy to let the story be told by GRRM himself, no doubt he still has some cards up his sleeve.


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    #388
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    People suspected Aegon was alive from way back. I never dawned on me at all until young grif claimed to be Aegon. It was a complete shock.

    I felt it was something that wasn't planned, and GRRM did it as an afterthought. But looking back, maybe not, revealing this fake or real Aegon could have been planned from the start.

    Benjen as the Tree Eye Crow, never thought that, I always suspected he was Coldhands. But there was a seperate theory for it being Bloodraven.

    They got a lot of theories right in fairness.


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    #389
    Kunkka
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Kunkka


    Maybe we are not pissing in the wind then!


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    #390
    valor rorghulis
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭valor rorghulis


    Mr Freeze wrote: »
    People suspected Aegon was alive from way back. I never dawned on me at all until young grif claimed to be Aegon. It was a complete shock.

    I felt it was something that wasn't planned, and GRRM did it as an afterthought. But looking back, maybe not, revealing this fake or real Aegon could have been planned from the start.

    Benjen as the Tree Eye Crow, never thought that, I always suspected he was Coldhands. But there was a seperate theory for it being Bloodraven.

    They got a lot of theories right in fairness.

    There's a fantastic one on reddit about Benjen Stark being Daario Naharis - the first reply was "LOOK WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO US MARTIN"


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    #391
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Just finished my chronological re-read (absolutely recommended), and just skimmed through this thread.

    I don't think Jon's dead to be honest, I think he'll be back.

    Re the Volanqar, does the prophecy actually say "her volanqar" or just "the volanqar" I agree that I think it's more like to be Jaime than Tyrion but I also think it could be Stannis ... and just come to me as I type, could it be Tommen?

    The thing about Arya that really interests me is the constant referencing to Nymeria and her giant wolf pack. They get mentioned for too often for them not to be significant in some way.

    I have no idea what to think about Aegon.


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