German Volume Training

thegreatiam

JennyLynam wrote: »

Thanks @thegreatiam.

Have you or or do you take pre workout supplements and what do you think of them?

why not ask in the supplement thread or the thread I linked about pre workout supplements. Im sure youll get more effective market research there.

But to answer your question I don't "take" anything. I just eat food and drink liquids. Pre/Post/weight gainers/diet pills and a multitude of other supplements are marketing gimmicks. Sold to people either too lazy or not informed enough to know that they are either doing nothing or doing something so insignificant that a cup off coffee or a couple of extra eggs could do.

Whack a hefty price tag on a bag of sugar with some cheap lo grade oats and call it weight gainer. Add in some caffine and its a pre workout shake, charge €50 a kg and flog it online.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

From what I have read, people start on a preworkout and find that initially its great, then the effect tapers off. This point squarely to a strong placebo effect mixed with caffeine and sugar. My opinion, is that if training is to be a sustainable and long term effort then needing to hyped up on stimulants is not the most healthy way to be.

JennyLynam

Thats really helpful. I noted that there was a pretty strong reaction to Unholygregor when he started talking about gh etc, so I wanted to see what your opinion is with regard to these supplements.

It seems from looking on other forums that there is a bit of a divide in general between those who do things 'naturally', and those who do things not so naturally.

Would you consider protein in the same category as pre workout supplements, ie not worth it and unhealthy?

Blacktie.

JennyLynam wrote: »

Thats really helpful. I noted that there was a pretty strong reaction to Unholygregor when he started talking about gh etc, so I wanted to see what your opinion is with regard to these supplements.

It seems from looking on other forums that there is a bit of a divide in general between those who do things 'naturally', and those who do things not so naturally.

Would you consider protein in the same category as pre workout supplements, ie not worth it and unhealthy?

Derailing the thread a bit here but GH isn't a preworkout it's a steroid hence not natural. Protein is basically powdered food. It's only unhealthy if you're lactose intolerant and you'll quickly find that out!

metamorphosis

JennyLynam wrote: »

Thats really helpful. I noted that there was a pretty strong reaction to Unholygregor when he started talking about gh etc, so I wanted to see what your opinion is with regard to these supplements.

It seems from looking on other forums that there is a bit of a divide in general between those who do things 'naturally', and those who do things not so naturally.

Would you consider protein in the same category as pre workout supplements, ie not worth it and unhealthy?

Let's get back on track and keep the thread to the title and subject it is about

The charter at the top may be a good thing to quickly glance over if your new to posting here

Thanks

Mellor

Blacktie. wrote: »

Derailing the thread a bit here but GH isn't a preworkout it's a steroid hence not natural. Protein is basically powdered food. It's only unhealthy if you're lactose intolerant and you'll quickly find that out!

In the interest of clarity.
GH isn't a steroid, it's a peptide.
There's no lactose (sugar) in the protein it's self. So whey isolates are fine for people who are lactose intolerant. I'd avoid concentrates though.



Anyway back to 'ze German volume trainings. Anybody ran this for an extended period yet? Or in conjunction with GBC?

Blacktie.

Mellor wrote: »

In the interest of clarity.
GH isn't a steroid, it's a peptide.

I suspected I was getting this wrong.

Anyway back to 'ze German volume trainings. Anybody ran this for an extended period yet? Or in conjunction with GBC?

No but once I finish this shocking job schedule (about 8 months away ) I'll be giving it a shot. I'd be real interested in seeing someones results from an extended period of it.

irishbuzz

Would I be right in saying...

• GVT is more geared towards muscle development but should also result in some bodyfat loss
• GBC is more geared towards bodyfat loss but will also produce some muscle development

The Guvnor

I know a few people trying GVT and one in particular is flying on it.

He mentioned what he is doing - legs started with a superset of leg press and stiff legged deadlifts - 300kg on the leg press and 150kg on sldl's - 10 x 10.

Another super set as well on legs forgot what it was but I was impressed with the volume and weight!

Mid 40's and an ex world champion bodybuilder but still the volume and weights were a surprise to me - been doing it 12 weeks or so now! [:)]

Sugar Free

Mods apologies if this is considered too old a thread to bump but I thought it would be good to keep all GVT stuff in the one place. So I'm finishing phase one (six cycles) this week and will be moving into the 3 cycle/week 'break' period.

The articles I've read says that for this period you should do 4-6 sets per bodypart, 6-8 reps per set and whatever split suits you best. That's all grand. My question - which I can't seem to find an answer online for - is whether or not you should follow a prescribed tempo during this period?

I don't plan to do tempo sets as I'm guessing that's what the 'break' is about, especially as phase two is 10 x 6 with something mad like 5010 tempo. However I'd be interested in the thoughts of others, particularly from people who have done more than just the initial six cycles.

Hanley

No tempo. Relax and enjoy the deload.

Sugar Free

Cross-post from my log for anyone interested...

---

Results & Thoughts

Preface on measurements - I was consistent with where I measured e.g. just above nipple for chest etc. No idea if that will differ to other peoples. Likewise maybe some of the ratios will look out of whack compared to what they should.

Again, just down to the points I measured at if that's the case. Arms measurements are flexed cus ego. Everything else relaxed. Measured in inches.

13-Jun-2015 Weight & Measurements
Weight: 93.8kg

Upper leg: 24
Calf: 15.75
Arm: 16.25
Chest: 42.5
Shoulders: 46.75
Waist: 37.5
Bellybutton: 37.5
Abs: 36.25


23-Sep-2015 Weight & Measurements
Weight: 98.5kg

Upper leg: 26
Calf: 16
Arm: 17
Chest: 44
Shoulders: 48
Waist: 38.25
Bellybutton: 40
Abs: 37.5


So yeah, undeniable increases in chest, lats/upperback, delts and legs. Calves not so much but I didn't train them all that much. Fat gain mostly on obliques and mostly down to lots of social occasions more so than diet over the last few months. Not that I had to drink but I wanted to. It was a good summer lol.


Thoughts

So it took me about two weeks longer than it's supposed to. Down to a couple of little injuries on the way (mildly torn hamstring, right glute/itb issue). I do think adhering to the frequency as much as possible is important. Not that it's a big issue to need extra time due to life but going into it with the mindset of 3x a week instead of 3 in 5 days is probably sub-optimal.

The tempos for me were by far the most important. They have to be adhered to otherwise sh*t is just easy. E.g. for me, 100kg squat 10 x 10 with no tempo would be pretty easy. 100kg 10 x 10 with 60 seconds of tension is far more challenging.

Rest periods are also pretty important. There'd be the odd set or two where someone was using a machine (as an aside, women in my gym seem to love the lying leg curl. Not sure why, don't think it's much of an ass builder if I was to speculate and generalise on their reasons for using it...) or I had to use the bathroom and the rest period went beyond 90 secs. Waiting until you caught your breath each set would certainly take some of the training effect and also mean you'd be in the gym for about ten hours.

Loading - I got this wrong a couple of times. As long as you're not miles off I don't think it's hugely important. E.g. I probably should have done squats in phase 1 with 97.5kg instead of 100kg but in the big picture I don't think it matters.

Phase 1 (10x10) is mostly enjoyable. Legs DOMS is insane, the rest is ok.
No real comment on the deload period, just follow the prescribed volumes.

Phase 2 (10 x 6) was far less enjoyable. Even though you're using a 12RM weight, the slow tempo must do something to how your body handles it because it felt like six cycles of high volume, high intensity rather than high volume, moderate intensity. Combing squats with any type of DL I do not recommend. It was hell on my lower back / SI joints.

The result is that I'm completely beat up. Elbows did not really like the lower rep bicep curls. I feel knackered despite ensuring I'm hitting the calories.

I found it really hard to brace in squats because you're panting. Possibly an increased injury risk but it's not overly heavy weight. It does teach you about glute engagement and upper back tightness though, which is a positive.

My body is also crying out for some lower unilateral work. Right leg needs some work. Bench form has definitely improved. I put that down to the tempo and being gassed in later sets making me tighten up my lats and ensure I kept the hamstrings in 'explode any minute now' mode.

That's all I can think of for now. Overall, I would recommend it assuming you can be very honest with yourself on rest periods and tempos in particular and not taking the piss too much with the frequency.

Deco99

Hi, I've been trying to find a programme for GVT and they are all a bit different. I've done up the below from what i've read. Is this the general idea or have i missed an obvious item. I'm not good at pull ups so 10*6 with the band is even ambitious, i could change them to chin ups for phase 1.


Phase 1 last for 6 cycles, and it changes to 10*6 then.

EXERCISES 1RM* SETS REPS Tempo Rest WT
Day 1 - Chest and Upper Back
Barbell Bench Press - Medium Grip 10.00 10.00 4:1 90
Pull ups - assisted with Band if needed 10.00 6.00 4:1 90
Cable Crossover or Decline Flyes 3.00 10.00 2:2 75
Rollout/Incline sit ups 3.00 10.00 2:2 75

Day 2 Legs
Barbell Squat 10.00 10.00 4:1 90
Lying Leg Curls 10.00 10.00 4:1 90
Seated Calf Raise 3.00 10.00 2:2 75
Hanging Leg Raise 3.00 10.00 2:2 75

Day 3 - Off

Day 4 - Shoulders & Arms
Dips 10.00 6.00
Barbell Curl 10.00 6.00
Side Lateral Raise 3.00 6.00
Seated Bent-Over Rear Delt Raise / Reverse Curls 3.00 6.00

Deco99

Deco99 wrote: »

Hi, I've been trying to find a programme for GVT and they are all a bit different. I've done up the below from what i've read. Is this the general idea or have i missed an obvious item. I'm not good at pull ups so 10*6 with the band is even ambitious, i could change them to chin ups for phase 1.


Phase 1 last for 6 cycles, and it changes to 10*6 then.

EXERCISES 1RM* SETS REPS Tempo Rest WT
Day 1 - Chest and Upper Back
Barbell Bench Press - Medium Grip 10.00 10.00 4:1 90
Pull ups - assisted with Band if needed 10.00 6.00 4:1 90
Cable Crossover or Decline Flyes 3.00 10.00 2:2 75
Rollout/Incline sit ups 3.00 10.00 2:2 75

Day 2 Legs
Barbell Squat 10.00 10.00 4:1 90
Lying Leg Curls 10.00 10.00 4:1 90
Seated Calf Raise 3.00 10.00 2:2 75
Hanging Leg Raise 3.00 10.00 2:2 75

Day 3 - Off

Day 4 - Shoulders & Arms
Dips 10.00 6.00
Barbell Curl 10.00 6.00
Side Lateral Raise 3.00 6.00
Seated Bent-Over Rear Delt Raise / Reverse Curls 3.00 6.00

On day 2 changing calf raise and leg raise to dumbell lunges and rdls