German Volume Training

Tefral

JJayoo wrote: »

I like this unholy guy

Dont feed the Trolls.

Im happy that I walk outta the gym (hobble on leg days) completely wrecked from this training. I'm the type of person who likes being pushed against a wall and trying to get over it, at the end of the day I think this does do that. Sure I might not get massive out of it, sure it might not give me my 1 max rep personal record, but I do know im getting strong off it, I know the way my body is reacting to that training that it is doing something good.

As fitzgeme has mentioned earlier in this thread, doing 5x5 after this would seem quite easy.

I'm gonna do my 6 weeks of cycles and ill see how i am after that, a change is as good as a rest as they say.

UnholyGregor

I dont see why you guys circlejerk about gvt like its some holy grail of intensity
"ohmygod i did light weights for ****loads of reps and now i have doms!!"
You should be givin 100% every workout regardless of the programme. But i dont see why people are so stubborn when i bash on gvt, it isnt as good as a push pull/abxabxab routine. period. If any of you guys googled it for an hour you'd agree. Im sure youll make great gains on it, as you will with any resistance training provided the calories are there. But youll be missing out on that extra bit of optimisation. Whether you care enough to switch to a different routine or not, is up to you. If you have some personal attachment to gvt or a financial investment in it's success, sure stick to it all you want. But if youre gonna be 100% objective about it, it isnt ideal. nomsayin?

ronanc15

UnholyGregor wrote: »

I dont see why you guys circlejerk about gvt like its some holy grail of intensity
"ohmygod i did light weights for ****loads of reps and now i have doms!!"
You should be givin 100% every workout regardless of the programme. But i dont see why people are so stubborn when i bash on gvt, it isnt as good as a push pull/abxabxab routine. period. If any of you guys googled it for an hour you'd agree. Im sure youll make great gains on it, as you will with any resistance training provided the calories are there. But youll be missing out on that extra bit of optimisation. Whether you care enough to switch to a different routine or not, is up to you. If you have some personal attachment to gvt or a financial investment in it's success, sure stick to it all you want. But if youre gonna be 100% objective about it, it isnt ideal. nomsayin?

Clearly if you think GVT is simply lifting "light weights for sh1t loads of reps" then you have never done a proper GVT cycle.

For the record I'm always happy to take advice, tips etc from anyone with the experience to back it up. You're basically telling me I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about unless I can squat 140kg, 180kg DL for reps and 100kg bench. (Magic numbers?!)

Taken from your log:

"Lifting seriously for 6months now......"

1RM:

Squat: 139kgs
DL: 176kg (where's the reps brah?)
Bench: 107kgs


You're having a giraffe are you? Do yourself a favour and stop worrying so much about what Google says.

Hammar

UnholyGregor wrote: »

I dont see why you guys circlejerk about gvt like its some holy grail of intensity
"ohmygod i did light weights for ****loads of reps and now i have doms!!"
You should be givin 100% every workout regardless of the programme. But i dont see why people are so stubborn when i bash on gvt, it isnt as good as a push pull/abxabxab routine. period. If any of you guys googled it for an hour you'd agree. Im sure youll make great gains on it, as you will with any resistance training provided the calories are there. But youll be missing out on that extra bit of optimisation. Whether you care enough to switch to a different routine or not, is up to you. If you have some personal attachment to gvt or a financial investment in it's success, sure stick to it all you want. But if youre gonna be 100% objective about it, it isnt ideal. nomsayin?

Tell us all about your 600 pound raw bench,800 pound squat and 900 pound deadlift brah, aswell as all the training you done to get there.You're obviously a heavenly blessed speciman and it is an almighty honour for us minions to have a chance to interact with someone of your calibre.

UnholyGregor

pretty insane stats for 6months in fairness, after gaining 25kg in a 10 months, cant hate on that bro.
Anyway, you guys have fun with gvt. Its proven to be inferior in overall muscle hypertrophy. Its an outdated fad, period. Dont see why you guys are getting your knickers in a bunch.

Give legit advice on a fitness forum; Get accused of trying to sell steroids. Get accused of trolling. And have your personal fitness log called out and accused of taking the piss.

Great community you guys got here. No wonder this place is dead, any views different to your own (even though objectively correct) are ridiculed. Enjoy your little circlejerk guys. God people get so butthurt when it comes to their routines lmao

Tefral

UnholyGregor wrote: »

I dont see why you guys circlejerk about gvt like its some holy grail of intensity
"ohmygod i did light weights for ****loads of reps and now i have doms!!"
You should be givin 100% every workout regardless of the programme. But i dont see why people are so stubborn when i bash on gvt, it isnt as good as a push pull/abxabxab routine. period. If any of you guys googled it for an hour you'd agree. Im sure youll make great gains on it, as you will with any resistance training provided the calories are there. But youll be missing out on that extra bit of optimisation. Whether you care enough to switch to a different routine or not, is up to you. If you have some personal attachment to gvt or a financial investment in it's success, sure stick to it all you want. But if youre gonna be 100% objective about it, it isnt ideal. nomsayin?

Where's the harm in trying it for 6 weeks? Any "Brofessor" online can post this is crap or that is crap, just because someone wrote an article somewhere doesn't mean its gospel.

The gospel according to me is how my body reacts. Can link to this or that online, but none of it really is a reliable primary source of information, just some person says it doesn't work for them, someone else took that article and expanded on it and that some how legitimises the first article and i'm sure the same goes for the articles for the GVT.

Ill take advice, try it, tweek it to work for me and use it. Evolution for ME if you will

Hammar

12-07-2013, 02:15 #307
UnholyGregor
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
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gym every day for 90-120 mins
3500 calories and 200g protons per day
I WILL ACHIEVE MY 2PLATE BENCH, 3PLATE SQUAT AND 4PLATE DL BY XMAS OR SO HELP ME GOD....
went from 63kg to 85kg since last summer... the power of eating big and lifting big


Wait a second, i thought only those with a 140 KG squat and 180 KG deadlift knew what they were talking about.....
Oops.

UnholyGregor

Hammar wrote: »

12-07-2013, 02:15 #307
UnholyGregor
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 482
Adverts | Friends

gym every day for 90-120 mins
3500 calories and 200g protons per day
I WILL ACHIEVE MY 2PLATE BENCH, 3PLATE SQUAT AND 4PLATE DL BY XMAS OR SO HELP ME GOD....
went from 63kg to 85kg since last summer... the power of eating big and lifting big


Wait a second, i thought only those with a 140 KG squat and 180 KG deadlift knew what they were talking about.....

If you re-read the quote, im sure youll see that i said a chap with stats lower than that doesnt know enough about his own training to make his own desicions regarding what programme to do. Which is why i switched from an overcomplicated bodybuilding split to wendlers 5/3/1 big but boring. Anyway thats a pretty important milestone in powerlifting, i dont see why people think its odd that i picked 3plates and 4plates for swquat and dl

Hammar

UnholyGregor wrote: »

If you re-read the quote, im sure youll see that i said a chap with stats lower than that doesnt know enough about his own training to make his own desicions regarding what programme to do. Which is why i switched from an overcomplicated bodybuilding split to wendlers 5/3/1 big but boring. Anyway thats a pretty important milestone in powerlifting, i dont see why people think its odd that i picked 3plates and 4plates for swquat and dl

What if the guy is 5'5 and 60 KG, does he have to wait until he has a 2.3333x bodyweight squat and 3xbodyweight deadlift until he knows about his own training.
If you bothered to read some of the prominent fitness logs , you would know that there are guys with 5 plate squats and 6 plate deadlifts ( some of whom have posted in this thread already in fact) ,whom have nothing but positive things to say about GVT and their experiences with it. Do you claim to know more about it than them?

UnholyGregor

Hammar wrote: »

What if the guy is 5'5 and 60 KG, does he have to wait until he has a 2.3333x bodyweight squat and 3xbodyweight deadlift until he knows about his own training.
If you bothered to read some of the prominent fitness logs , you would know that there are guys with 5 plate squats and 6 plate deadlifts ( some of whom have posted in this thread already in fact) ,whom have nothing but positive things to say about GVT and their experiences with it. Do you claim to know more about it than them?

As i've said several times, youll make great gains on any routine. Its just sub optimal. I dont see why guys struggle to accept that their routine isnt the best in the world. Its like some sort of personal insult. Do whatever you want, but at least dont pretend its the best for you, because the scientific journals, believe it or not, arent out to get you.

ronanc15

UnholyGregor wrote: »

As i've said several times, youll make great gains on any routine.

Bullsh1t

Hammar

UnholyGregor wrote: »

As i've said several times, youll make great gains on any routine. Its just sub optimal. I dont see why guys struggle to accept that their routine isnt the best in the world. Its like some sort of personal insult. Do whatever you want, but at least dont pretend its the best for you, because the scientific journals, believe it or not, arent out to get you.

Nobody is insulted, You came onto this thread rubbishing GVT and insisting that without HGH and co,it was moronic (your words not mine). Now its "you will make great gains doing any routine". You don't seem to be in anyway consistent in your views.

UnholyGregor

Hammar wrote: »

Nobody is insulted, You came onto this thread rubbishing GVT and insisting that without HGH and co,it was moronic (your words not mine). Now its "you will make great gains doing any routine". You don't seem to be in anyway consistent in your views.

i stand by what i said. YOure a moron if you choose to do a sub optimal routine out of pride and willful ignorance. Still nobody has researched the science behind frequency vs volume for maximal protein synthesis. Instead everybody gets hyper defensive instead of trying to actually learn something, or take the advice that will actually help them.
So yes, i think anyone intentionally doing anything other than the very best routine is a moron. You will make gains of course, youre lifting heavy things up repeatedly and eating well. I never said otherwise, but its, as ive stated a million times, not the best way to do it. Ignorance is bliss i guess

Frank Bullitt

UnholyGregor wrote: »

i stand by what i said. YOure a moron if you choose to do a sub optimal routine out of pride and willful ignorance. Still nobody has researched the science behind frequency vs volume for maximal protein synthesis. Instead everybody gets hyper defensive instead of trying to actually learn something, or take the advice that will actually help them.
So yes, i think anyone intentionally doing anything other than the very best routine is a moron. You will make gains of course, youre lifting heavy things up repeatedly and eating well. I never said otherwise, but its, as ive stated a million times, not the best way to do it. Ignorance is bliss i guess

Oh the irony!

JJayoo

I just want a routine that will make me beautiful/less repulsive

Hammar

JJayoo wrote: »

I just want a routine that will make me beautiful/less repulsive

Theresalwaysone

Im going to give this a try for the 9 weeks.

Ive been lacking a structures programme for the last 3 week so going to jump into this. Will be interesting if nothing else.

Based on the Poloquin article, am I right in saying that its laid out as this.

Do A1 with 60 seconds rest between sets. 10x10

Then do A2 with 60 seconds rest between sets.

The B1 Rest 60 B2 Rest 90. 3x10

Hanley

Hammar wrote: »

What if the guy is 5'5 and 60 KG, does he have to wait until he has a 2.3333x bodyweight squat and 3xbodyweight deadlift until he knows about his own training.
If you bothered to read some of the prominent fitness logs , you would know that there are guys with 5 plate squats and 6 plate deadlifts ( some of whom have posted in this thread already in fact) ,whom have nothing but positive things to say about GVT and their experiences with it. Do you claim to know more about it than them?

LOL'd SO hard here. Very well played

Hanley

Incidentally, my plan for the next while;

1) Lots of 3-5x3-5 on big lifts, combined with morning KB workouts for the next 3 weeks in preparation for SFG L1, and getting shredded

2) Smolov Jr for the deadlift (just to see what happens) pair with some bench intensive westside style max effort work for 4 weeks, and attempting to continue to lean out

3) GVT for 6ish weeks

4) ....TBC

amazingemmet

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Or, you arent experienced enough to know what works best for your body and are doing what routine you personally like, which is fine by me. You can train in your happy bubble all you want, but its a black and white fact that gvt isnt good, it isnt even popular anymore, it died out about 18months ago, it was an overhyped fad.

If you cant squat 140 and dl 180 for reps, you havnt got a clue what works for your body in fairness

Lol GVT has been around in some form since the 60's its not a fad. If it didn't work it would of died the way some many other programs and fads have.

I challenge you to spend the 45 days it takes to run a full cycle of GVT. If you're planning on making training a feature of your life, which i hope you are then 45 days is nothing in comparision. Try it before you diss it.

Most people you see dissing GVT have never run a cycle (not a steroid cycle before your panties twist more) of it or if they have quit after the first leg day.

amazingemmet

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Im going to give this a try for the 9 weeks.

Ive been lacking a structures programme for the last 3 week so going to jump into this. Will be interesting if nothing else.

Based on the Poloquin article, am I right in saying that its laid out as this.

Do A1 with 60 seconds rest between sets. 10x10

Then do A2 with 60 seconds rest between sets.

The B1 Rest 60 B2 Rest 90. 3x10

Its Do 1 set of A1 rest 60 seconds, do a set of A2 rest 60 then repeat for ten sets

Legits

Hanley wrote: »

Doing GVT on a kcal deficit makes even less sense than that Gregor chap on this thread.

Hey Hanley why would you not recommend GVT while on a deficit.
I’m currently on a deficit and running GVT on Bench/One arm rows & Shoulder Press/BB Curl basically(different days super set).

I’ve kept a strength program on my Lower body split as I wanted to keep my strength up here.
My Bench is good(140kg) so was just looking for better definition there.
Current lifts
3x5 150kg Squat 3x5 150kg Deadlift 10x10 87.5 bench 10x10 50 press

I am currently 120kg looking to cut to 115kg. getting gram of protein per lb and calorie deficit is set to lose 1kg per week.

Theresalwaysone

amazingemmet wrote: »

Its Do 1 set of A1 rest 60 seconds, do a set of A2 rest 60 then repeat for ten sets

Thanks for clarifying!

It does say say a rest of 90s in this link (Which is a copy of his T nation article).

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

Theresalwaysone

Legits wrote: »

Hey Hanley why would you not recommend GVT while on a deficit.
I’m currently on a deficit and running GVT on Bench/One arm rows & Shoulder Press/BB Curl basically(different days super set).

I’ve kept a strength program on my Lower body split as I wanted to keep my strength up here.
My Bench is good(140kg) so was just looking for better definition there.
Current lifts
3x5 150kg Squat 3x5 150kg Deadlift 10x10 87.5 bench 10x10 50 press

I am currently 120kg looking to cut to 115kg. getting gram of protein per lb and calorie deficit is set to lose 1kg per week.

I think that on a deficit youll stunt growth if any.

Also Id say itll take awhile to recover after that much volume if your not eating enough.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

How much/if any of a calorie deficit were you on for this programme?

How was your diet?

How were your doms/recovery?

Thanks for answers.

Not sure about calories, dont track them (I know) was eating 90% clean, very high protien. Very hungry on this program, started back on the post workout shakes.

Doms not so bad, like clockwork Dom 2 days later in the previous two days area, lats and hams the worst but nothing major.

Dont know what happened to the thread after this question, I suppose that I am lifting 5-6 days a week for the last 2.5 years. I need to change things up every month or two and GVT looked like something that would shock me a bit, which it duly did. I have a 115kg bench, 160kg squat and 180-200kg deadlift (depending on trap bar or straight) at 90kg BW and a good bit of fat in there. I have maintained by BW almost exactly +/- 1kg during the cycle but defo look better. I think that you have to have an open mind about training and try various methods, Arnold was a high volume trainer, Dorian yates was low volume (I know they were on gear but regardless) no one system
works for everyone, and for my sanity its good to change things around. So long as your lifting and challenging yourself thats all that matters.

I am thinking for doing a lot of cardio after this cycle along with some heavy lifting....now that's controversial eh....

amazingemmet

Legits wrote: »

Hey Hanley why would you not recommend GVT while on a deficit.

Allow mean, GVT is a mass gaining program plain and simple. It aims to expose a certain movement pathway to repeated stress over and over which in turn will make it respond and grow. This stress also makes it harder to recover from. For efficient fat loss you want a much wider variety of movements as well as dipping into different energy systems.

amazingemmet

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying!

It does say say a rest of 90s in this link (Which is a copy of his T nation article).

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

Don't try and reinvent the wheel on this one, just follow the program as set out on the poliquin site, its been linked earlier in the thread. It works,

Just looked at the link, seen it was poliquin. Not sure I've always used 60sec with people and works fine Imo

Theresalwaysone

amazingemmet wrote: »

Don't try and reinvent the wheel on this one, just follow the program as set out on the poliquin site, its been linked earlier in the thread. It works,

Just looked at the link, seen it was poliquin. Not sure I've always used 60sec with people and works fine Imo

Yeah I will be sticking to the programme just that the way its outlined in that link is different to elsewhere.

Sorted now, Ill use 60!

Legits

amazingemmet wrote: »

Allow mean, GVT is a mass gaining program plain and simple. It aims to expose a certain movement pathway to repeated stress over and over which in turn will make it respond and grow. This stress also makes it harder to recover from. For efficient fat loss you want a much wider variety of movements as well as dipping into different energy systems.

Thanks. I had taken the opinion that fat loss was all diet really. I chose the GVT for upper body as it feels like its is leaning me out in the chest. The above are my main exercises I do accessory stuff each day depending how im feeling. I also do some sprint intervals twice a week(pre season Rugby)
I suppose the answer is Im not really doing GVT as from reading the program the intensity sessions is only 64% of orm.

What weighlifting program due you recommend for people on a deficit?

amazingemmet

Legits wrote: »

What weighlifting program due you recommend for people on a deficit?

This is a general template as I rarely have anyone on a single calorific deficit on all days. I cycle calories and nutrients for all my clients. The below is just to give you an idea of a structure. Your aims in losing fat should be to keep your strength up and move in as many planes as possible. If you're training for rugby then its also position and capacity dependent. But movement should be a priority.

Warm-up
10 mins activation/mobility/core circuit

2x main exercises, ie squat and bench or deadlift and press each for 5x5, 3x5 or 3/2/1 waves, generally cycled in weeks.

Some accessory work to bring up individual weak points, 2-3 exercises, done for 2-4 sets for reps of 10-20

Then 15-20 mins conditioning. I use a wide variety of circuits I here but generally its aimed on the same movement patterns as the main exercises, Ie KB swings on deadlift day or press ups on bench day.