What would you do with Tim Tebow?

HigginsJ

The guy has started 14 games in the NFL. 8-6 record. 17tds to 9ints. 989 rushing yards with 12 td's.

He has a 1-1 post season record 2tds 0ints.

He is plenty good enough to play QB in the NFL. Talk of moving him to TE or exiling him to the Arena league or CFL is disrespectful. He just needs a chance.

Also in reference to a point from earlier, I'm surprised no team has looked into acquiring Jimmy Clausen. Think he could do a very good job as a starter.

Chucky the tree

HigginsJ wrote: »

The guy has started 14 games in the NFL. 8-6 record. 17tds to 9ints. 989 rushing yards with 12 td's.

He has a 1-1 post season record 2tds 0ints.

He is plenty good enough to play QB in the NFL. Talk of moving him to TE or exiling him to the Arena league or CFL is disrespectful. He just needs a chance.

Also in reference to a point from earlier, I'm surprised no team has looked into acquiring Jimmy Clausen. Think he could do a very good job as a starter.

Yea it's obvious all the GM's and headcoaches are the ones who are wrong.

HigginsJ

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yea it's obvious all the GM's and headcoaches are the ones who are wrong.

Why all the GM's and head-coaches?? I'm sure plenty have no need for Tebow but there are a few who should be looking long and hard at him.

Chucky the tree

HigginsJ wrote: »

Why all the GM's and head-coaches?? I'm sure plenty have no interest in Tebow but there are a few who should be looking long and hard at him.

Because all the GM's and headcoaches have shown they have no interest in Tebow as QB. No team should be looking hard at him, he's a headache.

Chabals Beard

I don't care if Tebow is a good QB or not, love him or hate him, the guy generates a lot of interest and makes teams more exciting to watch.. Well, at least in the 4th quarter.

HigginsJ

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Because all the GM's and headcoaches have shown they have no interest in Tebow as QB. No team should be looking hard at him, he's a headache.

The whole headache thing is hardly his fault. It's not like he is a drunk, dope smoking, HGH addict, Prima Donna.

Chucky the tree

HigginsJ wrote: »

The whole headache thing is hardly his fault. It's not like he is a drunk, dope smoking, HGH addict, Prima Donna.

I know it's not really his fault. But it doesn't stop him being a headache.

LuckyLloyd

'Oh, why won't the big mean NFL give brother Tebow a chance? There are teams that should fall to their knees and receive him as their saviour!!'

This stuff is particularly lol, and one might think that the actual way things are playing out would be enough to disabuse his fans of such notions. Why do you think the Jets didn't give him much of a shot last year? Or cut him now? The whispers have been there ever since he has been drafted. Tebow can't grasp the nuances of an NFL playbook. He is poor in practice and his inflexibility and inability to make all the throws makes him near impossible to work with as a no.1 option.

The NFL is not dumb. Over the long haul, it doesn't make many player evaluation mistakes. There are ~1700 roster spots available from September to January every year, and three times as many viable options looking to grab one at any time. Sure, lots of mistakes are made in the Draft each year. But once players get into the league and get working in that environment day in and day out, the NFL is ruthless at separating the wheat from the chaff.

You could take Tebow as your no.1 option and decide to try and build around him going forward. It might work for a half season or season (though plenty of footage now exists for teams to work with) but soon opponents are going to nail your limited offense and start shutting you down hard a la Tebow’s last NFL start. Divisional rivals in particular are going to dance on your head and go cock a doodle do two times each a year.

You have him as a backup option, then you are getting a media circus that is potentially destabilising and unfair on your actual guy, as lose a couple of games in a row and you're going to be fielding a multitude of questions on why he isn't getting a shot. You'll also have Christian America insinuating that maybe you hate Jesus and, as such, are keeping Tebow down because of his faith. And then, if your no.1 does go down Tebow can't come straight in and take over!! You'll need to rewrite your playbook to accomadate him.

And the argument that goes ‘oh the Jets weren’t stable enough to use him as the no.1’ is also useless. For sure, if Bill and the Patriots had no other option I’m sure they could carry his limitations for a season. But it would be far more time efficient for them to use a better QB and give them a higher potential ceiling of success in the process. QBs get jobs at poor teams more readily. That’s the way the NFL works. RG3 and Luck got to the playoffs last year turning around dreadful squads.

In saying all of that, I don’t deny that Tebow is a good man and a fine football player – arguably the finest college football player of all time. If he is willing to play next year for close to the league minimum as a utility option I’ve no doubt that he can contribute and carve out a decent career for himself, play for some Championships and potentially be remembered for some big plays.

If he refuses to do this and demand a QB spot then he is going to be out of the league soon, fixed in memories forever wearing a blue uniform trucking college defenders. It’s his choice really.

nerd69

I don't think tebow as a backup would be an issue if you have a good starting qb Brady Quinn and "butt fumble" Sanchez where iffy to start with put him behind a proper starting qb and there will be very few calls for him to start

LuckyLloyd

nerd69 wrote: »

I don't think tebow as a backup would be an issue if you have a good starting qb Brady Quinn and "butt fumble" Sanchez where iffy to start with put him behind a proper starting qb and there will be very few calls for him to start

But what's the point in that when he can't grasp the offense or make the throws necessary to run it? A backup spot isn't for the craic.

Dohnny Jepp

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But what's the point in that when he can't grasp the offense

I never heard this before. Has he been struggling with playbooks?

Chucky the tree

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

I never heard this before. Has he been struggling with playbooks?

No, he just struggles making throws in the playbooks.

LuckyLloyd

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

I never heard this before. Has he been struggling with playbooks?

Was talk during the summer of 2011 that he was behind Quinn and Orton in grasping the playbook fully and executing well throughout practice, yes.

TO.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Was talk during the summer of 2011 that he was behind Quinn and Orton in grasping the playbook fully and executing well throughout practice, yes.

His issues had nothing to do with grasping the playbook. His issues were always about reading a defense and his mechanics. There was never any indication he struggled with the playbooks. Obviously some plays in the offensive playbook would be no good to him if he struggled with his defensive reads but other than that he grasped them.

LuckyLloyd

TO. wrote: »

His issues had nothing to do with grasping the playbook. His issues were always about reading a defense and his mechanics. There was never any indication he struggled with the playbooks. Obviously some plays in the offensive playbook would be no good to him if he struggled with his defensive reads but other than that he grasped them.

Okay fine, retracted.

Point is, he can't handle the responsibilities and expectations of an NFL QB.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Okay fine, retracted.

Point is, he can't handle the responsibilities and expectations of an NFL QB.

But when he was given the chance to start he turned around a team's season and brought them to the playoffs and won a game in the playoffs.

So while it certainly was an unconventional offense in the NFL it actually worked out pretty well.

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

But when he was given the chance to start he turned around a team's season and brought them to the playoffs and won a game in the playoffs.

So while it certainly was an unconventional offense in the NFL it actually worked out pretty well.

It worked for a handful of games until teams figured out how to stop it - which they did. Denver should never have beaten the Steelers in the play-off game.

As a Broncos fan it was exciting to watch and great to see the last gasp wins - but it was never a long-term runner and Elway realised it quickly and went out and got Manning.

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It worked for a handful of games until teams figured out how to stop it - which they did. Denver should never have beaten the Steelers in the play-off game.

As a Broncos fan it was exciting to watch and great to see the last gasp wins - but it was never a long-term runner and Elway realised it quickly and went out and got Manning.

So this is your savour? They shouldn't have beaten them? They beat them and that is all that counts. You can never take that away from Tebow.
Fact of the matter is that they didn't want him but were really left with no choice but to play him and he inspired the whole team. When you hear Champ Bailey praising the guy and he hasn't stopped even after he left the Broncos you know how much he inspired them all. He is a born leader on the football field and even though he isn't the greatest QB you still have a better team when he is on it than having some average QB because everybody just plays better.

davyjose

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It worked for a handful of games until teams figured out how to stop it - which they did. Denver should never have beaten the Steelers in the play-off game.

As a Broncos fan it was exciting to watch and great to see the last gasp wins - but it was never a long-term runner and Elway realised it quickly and went out and got Manning.

I'm the biggest Peyton fan in the world, but he's hardly a long term solution either.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

So this is your savour? They shouldn't have beaten them? They beat them and that is all that counts. You can never take that away from Tebow.
Fact of the matter is that they didn't want him but were really left with no choice but to play him and he inspired the whole team. When you hear Champ Bailey praising the guy and he hasn't stopped even after he left the Broncos you know how much he inspired them all. He is a born leader on the football field and even though he isn't the greatest QB you still have a better team when he is on it than having some average QB because everybody just plays better.

Like he did against the Pats?

poldebruin

....well I would love to see him picked up somewhere and get another chance, although it's now looking unlikely. I think the idea of having to scale back and tailor an offense around his skillset is a step to far for most GMs. That and the idea that he would be "your guy" and perhaps your future as a GM being tied to his as a QB.

What is amazing to me though, is that QBs like John Skelton, Matt Leinhert and Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Byron Leftwich and Rex Grossman can manage to find a career in the NFL, not to mention every opportunity to start but Tebow can't.

It's been done to death about his mechanics and ability to "make all the throws a QB needs to in this league" but there are plenty of QBs with dream arms that didn't make it in the league either, so we know there is more to it than making the throws.

They say it's difficult to win a single game in the NFL, and Tebow managed to do that 7 or 8 times, not to mention a playoff game (where he made some pretty decent throws) on a not very special Denver team (previous 16 games we were 2-14 or some such ridiculous number) so I don't give much credence to folks that said Denver won in spite of him that year.

I also believe the coaches in Denver, showed their lack of faith (or confidence) in Tebow with some ultra conservative gameplans, and only let him do what he does best in the forth quarter or last drives of games - scramble and make things happen when the play (ineveitably) brakes down. That said, I was delighted when Denver got the chance to pursue and land Manning, and was hopeful that Tebow would earn a chance somewhere else.

Finally, all the talk of Circus' coming to town.....some teams could do with a Circus coming to town. 2011 was a very memorable year to be a Denver Bronco fan, and that was in large part because of Tim Tebow.

nerd69

What's interesting is tebow has a good win loss record that's the mail argument for him Vince young has arguably a far better resume and no1 wants him or are talking about him

frostie500

Tebow's post season in Denver showed us everything we need to know about Tebow. He has the talent to be a starter in the NFL and a productive quarterback....but he also clearly lacks the consistency to be one.

Look at that post season run. Beating the Steelers in a great game where Pittsburgh were playing their very best "Blitzburgh" defence and Tebow took time and calmly sliced them apart with medium and deep range throws. The following week he went to New England and had one of the most incompetent showings by a QB in the playoffs that I can rememer...it was Joe Webb-esque but at least Webb hadnt taken a snap up to that game.

Against the Pats Tebow couldnt decipher what the defence was giving him. Were the Pats in two deep or three deep? Was the middle linebacker and safeties dropping back into a Tampa Two? Heck I don't know so I'll just throw the ball somewhere

That seven day period showed us everything that was good and bad about Tebow. He has good long ability to make the deep passes. He has poor ability to read the defence. He has, obviously, good ability to rush outside the pocket and crash into defenders and pick up yards. He lacks consistency. He's a great leader...but what's the point of a great leader if he puts his team in a hole?

At Florida Tebow was an option QB asked to run more than throw. If he threw there were a lot of screen passes and quick plays to the likes of Percy Harvin that would become highlight reel plays. He was superb in this system and is one of the very best college QBs I've seen. I'd put Tebow right there alongside Matt Leinhert and Vince Young...what's the common denominator there? All were first round busts

Tebow came to the NFL having never had to learn how to read a defence, he learned how to read one or two key players that would then determine whether he ran or handed the ball off or gave Harvin a quick pass. Obviously I'm over simplifying things with that assessment but it's clear that Tebow wasn't ready to be an NFL QB.

He needed to be able to spend time on the bench and on the practice field learning how to do these things. He needed to be drafted by a team with a Brady, Manning or Brees and just sit behind them without the pressure of having to play.

I still think that he could be productive in the NFL and I'd love to see him sign for the Pats. He could learn for the next few years from Brady and see what it takes to be a successful QB in the NFL. He could learn how to read defences and Bellichek could use him in specific roles, maybe as a goal line full back or third tight end? Because if he was ever to get a snap ahead of Brady it would be a mistake at the moment but maybe over time as he learns the role he could become a legitimate option as a starter in the league. He needs to bite the bullet, swallow his ego and accept a minimum contract with the team that is the best fit for him to learn and not one where he thinks he can compete for a starting spot

SantryRed

What pisses me off about the Tebow debate is all the credit he gets for those 7 wins. It's talked about as if the defense had nothing to do with it and Prater didn't have to kick bombs to keep them in games.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

What pisses me off about the Tebow debate is all the credit he gets for those 7 wins. It's talked about as if the defense had nothing to do with it and Prater didn't have to kick bombs to keep them in games.

What annoys me more than that is the amount of people that say it was all on the defense that they won those games but then criticise Tebow for the loss to New England and forget to mention that the Broncos D gave up over 500 yards of offense and 6 passing touchdowns.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

What annoys me more than that is the amount of people that say it was all on the defense that they won those games but then criticise Tebow for the loss to New England and forget to mention that the Broncos D gave up over 500 yards of offense and 6 passing touchdowns.

Its true both sides of the ball for the Broncos that night were sh1t. But their offense was not able to respond to most of the Pats scores. The Broncos were found out that night and with the Pats figuring out how to beat the read option it was game over for the Broncos.

The biggest problem for the Broncos was that for the first time all season long a team didn't over commit to the read option i.e Steelers and took away Tebow's options. By doing this it left the Broncos with little or no wiggle room that they had that got them back into other games.

The Patriots showed the Broncos why Tebow needs to be developed long term as the Read Option gets found out eventually. The fact Tebow could not read a defense and could not adapt quick enough the Broncos could not adapt to what was happening in the game. Asking Tebow to bring back the amount of point their defense leaked was an extreme uphill task.

Unless Tebow is developed and his kinks are ironed out there is going to be very few teams that can use him. The NFL were not ready for a born winner with passion and using a system that very few defenses had to defend against in a long time when he came in, but that got found out. Even Chip Kelly with the Eagles knows sure his style of play will get him so far using the read option but you need to balance that with other styles for the NFL. And this is why Tebow needs to fixed.

As I said before the Pats should take Tebow and work him behind Brady and Mallet and give him the time to develop. No pressure to perform as he is sitting behind one of the NFL's greatest QBs and he might actually learn something rather being thrown into the thick of it. Now is the time for him to learn and then he might prove all the doubters wrong including myself.

spiralism

poldebruin wrote: »

....well I would love to see him picked up somewhere and get another chance, although it's now looking unlikely. I think the idea of having to scale back and tailor an offense around his skillset is a step to far for most GMs. That and the idea that he would be "your guy" and perhaps your future as a GM being tied to his as a QB.

What is amazing to me though, is that QBs like John Skelton, Matt Leinhert and Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Byron Leftwich and Rex Grossman can manage to find a career in the NFL, not to mention every opportunity to start but Tebow can't.

It's been done to death about his mechanics and ability to "make all the throws a QB needs to in this league" but there are plenty of QBs with dream arms that didn't make it in the league either, so we know there is more to it than making the throws.

They say it's difficult to win a single game in the NFL, and Tebow managed to do that 7 or 8 times, not to mention a playoff game (where he made some pretty decent throws) on a not very special Denver team (previous 16 games we were 2-14 or some such ridiculous number) so I don't give much credence to folks that said Denver won in spite of him that year.

I also believe the coaches in Denver, showed their lack of faith (or confidence) in Tebow with some ultra conservative gameplans, and only let him do what he does best in the forth quarter or last drives of games - scramble and make things happen when the play (ineveitably) brakes down. That said, I was delighted when Denver got the chance to pursue and land Manning, and was hopeful that Tebow would earn a chance somewhere else.

Finally, all the talk of Circus' coming to town.....some teams could do with a Circus coming to town. 2011 was a very memorable year to be a Denver Bronco fan, and that was in large part because of Tim Tebow.

Couldn't agree more. He brought us from an irrelevant team in the gutter back into the mix of things and i'll always think highly of him for it. We wouldnt have got manning if we were a 5-11 irrelevant side after all, which was where we were in those glory days of McDaniels and Orton.

I think he didnt get fair shake in all honesty, just because all of what surrounded him. When you see ****bags like Weeden, Gabbert and Ponder starting and Tebow, who has in all fairness shown far more than any of them being ditched it just goes to show how quick people wanted to bury the fella. Pats game did a lot to taint him but in fairness, the defence gave up 500 yards and 6 Tds while Tebow was having to deal with two men in the backfield on every snap. He hadn't a ****ing hope.

All i'm saying is he could reinvigorate a team stuck in the gutter like Jacksonville and it's a bit harsh on the lad that he's effectively done when only one team gave him a proper go of it and worse QBs with far less upside have got much more of a chance.

Chucky the tree

Jacksonville are stuck in the gutter because they have a QB who can't win games. Tebow wouldn't be much different. After the initial hype of him there dies down and he starts losing then people will just disappear again. Not only that but Caldwell can kiss his job goodbye for being stupid enough to hitch his wagon to Tebow. Jags are far far better off going with what they have a slowly building their franchise. Even if Tebow eeks out his 6-8 wins all he's doing his denying the Jags the chance to draft a true franchise QB. Seems like a lose-lose situation to me.

poldebruin

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Even if Tebow eeks out his 6-8 wins all he's doing his denying the Jags the chance to draft a true franchise QB. Seems like a lose-lose situation to me.

8 wins got Denver into the playoffs that year - I think the Jags would be delighted with a season like that!

It's become clear that his only hope of making it in the NFL is to try to learn another position - Safety or Tight End....possibly Linebacker, he might also be used in Short Yardage situations - he really was good at picking up a yard or two and running inside the 5. I'd rather see that than see him leave the NFL altogether for USFL or Arena league.

eagle eye

He has been brilliant in the NFL in the red zone and I think there are plenty of teams who could use him as their QB there. Teams like Chicago, Cincy and even Seattle could do with him in that role.

That way he gets to remain a QB and gets time to develop while still contributing to a team.