What would you do with Tim Tebow?

TO.

davyjose wrote: »

I would say working with McDaniels will be of more benefit. Brady's job is not to make Tebow a better QB, but you can be sure McDaniels' is. He's put his reputation on the line for him twice.

And I think if he'd they'd completed the job, TT would be a much more capable passer by now.

True it isn't Tom Brady's job to do so but some QBs work well with their understudies and actually help their progression and Tom Brady did it with Cassell and Hoyer and Mallet and all 3 have stated Bradys work with them helped them grow. Then you have QBs who would do fook all with their understudies. As well as that just practicing day in day out at Brady's pace will help them along.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

True it isn't Tom Brady's job to do so but some QBs work well with their understudies and actually help their progression and Tom Brady did it with Cassell and Hoyer and Mallet and all 3 have stated Bradys work with them helped them grow. Then you have QBs who would do fook all with their understudies. As well as that just practicing day in day out at Brady's pace will help them along.

He'll certainly learn a huge amount about how to read a defense from Brady.

darragh16

TO. wrote: »

True it isn't Tom Brady's job to do so but some QBs work well with their understudies and actually help their progression and Tom Brady did it with Cassell and Hoyer and Mallet and all 3 have stated Bradys work with them helped them grow. Then you have QBs who would do fook all with their understudies. As well as that just practicing day in day out at Brady's pace will help them along.

Just being around Brady will have a positive impact on Tebow. He seems like a smart guy and willing to work hard. If working hard means listening and learning from Brady then I can see Tebow getting the head down. Dunno if I can see Tebow developing to more than a backup QB though.

Also there's the shout of Tebow helping out defenses dealing with dual threat QBs.

PerrinV2

Was this from today?

nerd69

Also from tebows perspective he could potentially end up with a sb ring for doing feck all. I know he'd rather start but it's better to be a no3 qb for the pats than a no3 for the jets

Son Of A Vidic

PerrinV2 wrote: »

Was this from today?

From yesterday, but it was quickly nipped in the bud with an ample serving of this.....

Morrisseeee

Would the Pats fans give any kudos to the Broncos Organisation for the results we got out of Tebow ?
We were down-n-out when he came in, he was very raw, no proper training or quality time with the starters, but yet they managed him as best as they could and in the end got 2 great results (division & playoff win).
Would your own organisation get as much out of him if he had to come in ?

FWIW I'm a fan of Tebow, not because he's a superb QB, we all know he's limited on the throwing side of things and is poor or average at reading defenses, but you have to take into consideration his very topsy-turvy start-stop integration into the NFL.
I really like his determination, his will to win, his work ethic, his motivation skills (maybe he can be the Pats Mr Motivator!), his honesty, his skill-set (yet to be refined), his character and of course the excitement he manages to pull off (awfulness mixed in with greatness).

/rant- His year at the Jets was a total waste -end rant/

I don't think anyone believes he'll ever be an elite QB (apart from himself), or that he'll win a SB some day (altho stranger things have happened), but I firmly believe he can be an average QB and if a team is built around him that he can be successful.
So, I'll follow his progression with the Pats with interest and in particular to see how they will manage him.

TO.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

A:Would the Pats fans give any kudos to the Broncos Organisation for the results we got out of Tebow ?
We were down-n-out when he came in, he was very raw, no proper training or quality time with the starters, but yet they managed him as best as they could and in the end got 2 great results (division & playoff win).
B:Would your own organisation get as much out of him if he had to come in ?

A:Some will some wont. I'm going to blunt myself I really don't care for the Broncos at all never have never will. Fair play to them for having a strong defense and getting something out of Tebow but its a can of worms I don't want to open to be honest for obvious reasons.

B: Unanswerable question really. It would have been down to whether or not the Pats would have adjusted dramatically to suit Tebow.

FWIW I'm a fan of Tebow, not because he's a superb QB, we all know he's limited on the throwing side of things and is poor or average at reading defenses, but you have to take into consideration his very topsy-turvy start-stop integration into the NFL.
I really like his determination, his will to win, his work ethic, his motivation skills (maybe he can be the Pats Mr Motivator!), his honesty, his skill-set (yet to be refined), his character and of course the excitement he manages to pull off (awfulness mixed in with greatness).

I don't think anyone believes he'll ever be an elite QB (apart from himself), or that he'll win a SB some day (altho stranger things have happened), but I firmly believe he can be an average QB and if a team is built around him that he can be successful.
So, I'll follow his progression with the Pats with interest and in particular to see how they will manage him.

As I said already on multiple occasions if we can fix his kinks and make it a long term project it could be a big plus for the Pats in the long run. But who knows if he will ever get fixed. He is in the right place for it with Bill and Tom and Josh and the setup the Pats have.

/rant- His year at the Jets was a total waste -end rant/

Feel free to give out about the circus we have very little love for them at all in here

To be honest I don't want to go into anymore detail as its time to move past the Tebow discussion in here for now until he does something. Too many dudes just want to come in and rubbish the ideas of others. But good to see there is guys open to discussion.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Would the Pats fans give any kudos to the Broncos Organisation for the results we got out of Tebow ?

Yes, of course. I think the defense stepped up in a number of games, and if I remember correctly, a few field goals turned games around; and obviously Tebow did his bit.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Would your own organisation get as much out of him if he had to come in ?

Who knows, but I'm glad we didn't have to lose our starter like we did in '08.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I really like his determination, his will to win, his work ethic

See, the thing is, I see this in a hell of a lot of players. Yet these values are used as a reason to defend Tebow.
If a guy doesn't have the required skillset, then he's just another football player that isn't good enough at an NFL level. Tebow appears to be one of those guys.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

his motivation skills (maybe he can be the Pats Mr Motivator!)

We have captains, and a great leader in Brady, and a top coach in Bill.
I don't think leadership is where the the Pats are lacking.
And what motivation skills can you pinpoint that Tebow has? And if these attributes are so great, why did 31 team not sign him, and one team sign him as 3rd choice QB (who may not make the roster)?


I don't get the Tebow excitement.
There are attributes that people speak so positively about Tebow, and yet there are guys on practice squads throughout the NFL (and below that level) with those same attributes.
People mention his plays that helped the team to the playoffs; but not his passer rating, or losing 4 of the last 5 games for the Broncos, or been given a master class by Tom in the two Pats games, the 7;3 loss to the poor Cheifs.....
This guy isn't Wilson or RG3, and yet he gets way more hype.

Son Of A Vidic

nerd69 wrote: »

I don't know the pats roster inside out so it's just a guess but Tom Brady is not coming off the pitch for any offensive plays...

Dude, that's not even a guess, because that is so, so true.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Would the Pats fans give any kudos to the Broncos Organisation for the results we got out of Tebow ?
We were down-n-out when he came in, he was very raw, no proper training or quality time with the starters, but yet they managed him as best as they could and in the end got 2 great results (division & playoff win).

Yes it was ballsy by you guys to do it. But was he even given the option to stay and to try and learn something from Manning? Because that would have only been fair imo. Maybe you have more info on that than I have, but that's the impression I got at the time.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Would your own organisation get as much out of him if he had to come in?

Pretty impossible to answer and how we are going to use him is equally impossible to answer right now. But there is one key difference, he now has an opportunity to learn from Tom Brady. He didn't have that when he was the starting QB for you guys.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I really like his determination, his will to win, his work ethic, his motivation skills (maybe he can be the Pats Mr Motivator!).his honesty, his skill-set (yet to be refined), his character and of course the excitement he manages to pull off (awfulness mixed in with greatness).

It was funny the other day when a lot of the media circus arrived at camp. There were a lot of guys there who have never been at a Pats camp before. And quite a few of them were really taken back and shocked, by how fired up Brady was on the field with the team. So tbh, I think we already have a Mr. Motivator in Brady. But I always liked Tebow, he's a damn good kid and he certainly is a real good role model to younger players and to younger NFL fans in general.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

/rant- His year at the Jets was a total waste -end rant/

I think that does pretty much sum it up alright.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I don't think anyone believes he'll ever be an elite QB (apart from himself), or that he'll win a SB some day (altho stranger things have happened)...

I suppose we can't fault him for believing that he can be elite. It's better to have an average player full of self-belief, than a gifted player full of self-doubt.

Right now, we don't even know if he will make the fianl roster. So we'll see how it goes. Personnally, I think Josh has some unfinished with Tebow and he really wants to give him a fair crack of the whip.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Welker V's Amendola?

If Amendola can stay healthy, I think he can be better than Welker. He's got that little bit more speed, strenght and height than Wes and he's looked damn impressive so far. Also something that has stood out is Amendola deeper downfield routes and he has looked pretty good doing it.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Will Jones (extra bulk for the new season) have a Watt (or something close) type two year to aid the pass rush?

Jones has added 10Lbs of solid muscle this offseason and looks pretty impressive. He did a great interview on PFW a few weeks back and spoke about how the bulk he added has not affected his speed or mobility. So we expect big things from him and I don't think he'll disappoint up.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Hightower to justify his 1st round pick?

Hightower had a solid first year, he became a starter so we can't ask for more. Yes a lot is expected from a year two jump. Unlike Jones, Hightower doesn't catch the eye so much. But he's a quietly, efficiently type of player. I also think that hamstring injury bothered him for a lot longer than the team let on. So if he's healthy, he'll do well.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Will the new WR's be good enough?

God only knows, but right now? I fear not. I really wanted Dobson and Boyce out there and they're not . That is a real worry, feck this developmental bs, Brady ain't gettign any younger, he needs to be getting talented young WR's up to speed right now. So ya, I'm real worried about our WR postion.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Gronk back by mid to late in the season?

Either or for me. But I'll gladly take late, especially if it means having him in peak form heading toward the playoffs.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Hernandez to have a 16 game season?

I doubt it, he just has a knack of getting some sort of injury. Last season should have been huge for him, he was shaping up to take more of Welker's workload and then BANG, week 2 the ankle goes . but there's no denying it, if him and Gronk are fully fit and on the field? Then other teams are in serious trouble.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If we make the playoffs, and remain close to injury free, then we have another shot at the SB.
I'm slightly less confident this year though.

Ya, I'm also certainly less confident than I have been in recent years.

Morrisseeee

TO. wrote: »

A:Some will some wont.

But who knows if he will ever get fixed. He is in the right place for it with Bill and Tom and Josh and the setup the Pats have.

To be honest I don't want to go into anymore detail as its time to move past the Tebow discussion in here for now until he does something. Too many dudes just want to come in and rubbish the ideas of others. But good to see there is guys open to discussion.

As a Broncos fan I was proud of the way they handled him, I think it shows how strong of an organisation they had (& have), I'm not sure how many other teams would have gotten the same/similar results.
I know the Pat's pride themselves on being a strong organisation and it would be interesting to see if the chips were down how well they would adapt with him at QB.
It'll probably never happen (or so ye hope :pac:) so it's all conjecture for now, but having something like that happen (Tebow coming in as QB and being so raw) is a real litmus test as to how strong your organisation is.

Corvus Maximus wrote:

But was he even given the option to stay and to try and learn something from Manning? Because that would have only been fair imo. Maybe you have more info on that than I have, but that's the impression I got at the time

I thought they would have held onto him aswell, as it would have made sense if Manning got injured and then we would have fallen back to the previous year's set-up (however good/bad that was). I think Elway didn't like him though but that's just reading between the lines. Do I buy into the fact that they wanted to see him get a starting job at another team........mmmmm......I dunno (maybe).

Corvus Maximus wrote:

he now has an opportunity to learn from Tom Brady. He didn't have that when he was the starting QB for you guys.

True we had Orton, but I don't know if he'll learn much with Brady, as Brady is a passing QB and my thinking is he would be better at Washington or the 49ers or Seattle learning from RG3\Wilson\Kapernick.

Corvus Maximus wrote:

It's better to have an average player full of self-belief, than a gifted player full of self-doubt.

Chalk it down.

Thalia Enough Storehouse wrote:

See, the thing is, I see this in a hell of a lot of players. Yet these values are used as a reason to defend Tebow.

I'm not defending Tebow, I'm just giving the reasons why I follow him or found him interesting, we all follow one player or a number of players for different reasons. Back in the late '80's Elway stood out to me as a player to follow and for my sins I've been a Bronco ever since :P (good times outweigh the bad thank goodness).

Thalia Enough Storehouse wrote:

We have captains, and a great leader in Brady, and a top coach in Bill.
I don't think leadership is where the the Pats are lacking.

I agree, ye are not lacking in leadership, but Tebow has proven his motivation skills and even though he won't be top dawg or anywhere near it, I bet he'll still get into some players/coaches/etc mind and inspire them, perhaps it's something we'll never see or hear about.

Thalia Enough Storehouse wrote:

People mention his plays that helped the team to the playoffs; but not his passer rating

You've just mentioned the positive & negative side of him in one sentence and obviously the Pats will be trying to maximize the positive & minimize the negative. If they can achieve that then they're on the road to creating 'something' (whatever that will be)?

TO. wrote:

To be honest I don't want to go into anymore detail as its time to move past the Tebow discussion in here for now until he does something. Too many dudes just want to come in and rubbish the ideas of others. But good to see there is guys open to discussion.

Hear hear

Son Of A Vidic

Morrisseeee wrote: »

True we had Orton, but I don't know if he'll learn much with Brady, as Brady is a passing QB and my thinking is he would be better at Washington or the 49ers or Seattle learning from RG3\Wilson\Kapernick.

Most young's QB's can and will gallop around the field all day. But Tebow needs to learn how to pass the ball and there's nobody better than Brady to teach him that. Now Tebow will never have the perfect throwing mechanics of Brady, but something is bound to rub off on him surely. I reckon that's why Josh threw him a lifeline. But if he doesn't make it as a Patriot, then I think it's safe to say his NFL career will be over.

Syferus

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Would the Pats fans give any kudos to the Broncos Organisation for the results we got out of Tebow ?
We were down-n-out when he came in, he was very raw, no proper training or quality time with the starters, but yet they managed him as best as they could and in the end got 2 great results (division & playoff win).
Would your own organisation get as much out of him if he had to come in ?

FWIW I'm a fan of Tebow, not because he's a superb QB, we all know he's limited on the throwing side of things and is poor or average at reading defenses, but you have to take into consideration his very topsy-turvy start-stop integration into the NFL.
I really like his determination, his will to win, his work ethic, his motivation skills (maybe he can be the Pats Mr Motivator!), his honesty, his skill-set (yet to be refined), his character and of course the excitement he manages to pull off (awfulness mixed in with greatness).

/rant- His year at the Jets was a total waste -end rant/

I don't think anyone believes he'll ever be an elite QB (apart from himself), or that he'll win a SB some day (altho stranger things have happened), but I firmly believe he can be an average QB and if a team is built around him that he can be successful.
So, I'll follow his progression with the Pats with interest and in particular to see how they will manage him.

It took a few weeks before Fox and co realised how to use Tebow correctly and even then they still made a lot of very strange and predictable calls. The Broncos defence were hyped up a little too much (similar to last year, too) by Tebow haters.

They could be great for three quarters and then leak twenty in ten minutes, inconsistent but talented would have been the best description for them.

Just because the Jets were a circus doesn't mean what the Broncos did was some stroke of genius.

They were adaptable - I call that a basic competency of being an NFL coach.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I'm just giving the reasons why I follow him or found him interesting, we all follow one player or a number of players for different reasons.

Well I admired Elway the player just like I admire Brady the player. The reasons for both are obvious.
I love my brother. Great guy. He's done some serious charity work that has raised money that has directly saved children's lives. But he's a terrible passer; and I'd hate to see him waste a spot on the Pat's roster.
Separating the feelings you have towards a guy and that's guys ability on the field, are required for a successful team.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Tebow has proven his motivation skills and even though he won't be top dawg or anywhere near it, I bet he'll still get into some players/coaches/etc mind and inspire them, perhaps it's something we'll never see or hear about.

Can I get some proven examples of this motivational/inspirational skills?
Not to be argumentative, but if I was to state that someone has a 'proven' skill/ability/attribute, I'd like to back it up with some stats/examples.

nerd69

TO. wrote: »

This is the Patriots thread not the Jets or Broncos or even a Tebow thread.

Hate to be the one to break it to ya but as soon as the pats signed tebow this became a tebow thread for the duration of his stay

TO.

nerd69 wrote: »

Hate to be the one to break it to ya but as soon as the pats signed tebow this became a tebow thread for the duration of his stay

Noooooo really? My point was the Pats thread like all team threads were designed for team news. Not talking about in detail a player's history with other teams. Tebow has his own thread which is this one. Tebow has done fook all with the Pats so far and until he does the Tebowmania stuff is not really Patriots news especially the history stuff.

The Patriots as an organisation have done a good job shutting up shop on the Tebowmania stuff so there is hardly any Tebow news other than the old rigmarole of the tebowmania stuff that Pats fans don't give a fook about really. What he did with the Broncos and Jets is now irrelevant in the Pats thread really. I thought that was easy to understand. Guess not.

eoghansully

3 reasons it will work:
1. Josh McDaniels and his specificity of training - well documented how he pulls guys aside during training for specific feedback- how tebows "fundamentals" still are so far off is beyond me

2. Already has former gators guys there in hernandez and spikes, as well as mcdaniels - a lot of allies

3. you know belicheck will concoct some plays with mcdaniels for red zone stuff- although why they even need that with Tom Brady is beyond me

Chucky the tree

Cut the Patriots as expected. His career as an NFL QB must be over now.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Cut the Patriots as expected. His career as an NFL QB must be over now.

That should be it. Jaysus all those posts trying to explain to people he wasn't cut out for the NFL. Won't ever get the time back. :rolleyes:

nerd69

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That should be it. Jaysus all those posts trying to explain to people he wasn't cut out for the NFL. Won't ever get the time back. :rolleyes:

all he does is win:D seriously though hes gona be a hof priest some day

JaMarcus Hustle

nerd69 wrote: »

all he does is win:D seriously though hes gona be a hof priest some day

I read that as "he's gonna be a hot priest some day".

Which is probably true aswell actually.

nerd69

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I read that as "he's gonna be a hot priest some day".

Which is probably true aswell actually.

that is gona be one ladie filled church

Paully D

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That should be it. Jaysus all those posts trying to explain to people he wasn't cut out for the NFL. Won't ever get the time back. :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Cut the Patriots as expected. His career as an NFL QB must be over now.

You both, along with plenty of others, were dead right in the end. Fair play. I really caught in the hype, although my excuse is that his run with the Broncos came in my first year of following the game so I was easily swayed :pac:

nerd69

Paully D wrote: »

You both, along with plenty of others, were dead right in the end. Fair play. I really caught in the hype, although my excuse is that his run with the Broncos came in my first year of following the game so I was easily swayed :pac:

meh your a broncos fan right? you will always have orange tinted glasses

i was convinced mike vick was gona have an mvp season 2 years ago and i still think brian dawkins should be starting safety for us

davyjose

nerd69 wrote: »

meh your a broncos fan right? you will always have orange tinted glasses

i was convinced mike vick was gona have an mvp season 2 years ago and i still think brian dawkins should be starting safety for us

Vick is going to have the best year of his career this season. Tebow... not so much.

I still think Tebow wasn't given a real shot. If Peyton hadn't chosen Denver Tebow would be a starter in the NFL right now. IMO.

LuckyLloyd

Paully D wrote: »

You both, along with plenty of others, were dead right in the end. Fair play. I really caught in the hype, although my excuse is that his run with the Broncos came in my first year of following the game so I was easily swayed :pac:

The whole Tebow debacle should serve as a useful learning tool for people fresh to the game. Analysing football is - like many things - counter intuitive. There is an absolute wealth of data available to work with and far more media content / scouting reports available at the individual player level. Some of the Tebow wins were dynamite in terms of entertainment and excitement, but it was a mirage right from the start. The details were consistently damning.

eagle eye

Paully D wrote: »

You both, along with plenty of others, were dead right in the end. Fair play. I really caught in the hype, although my excuse is that his run with the Broncos came in my first year of following the game so I was easily swayed :pac:

He is 25 so its not over just yet. I think with New England he showed improved footwork and his throwing technique was good. He had accuracy issues and he was slow to release and slow to read too. These things can be fixed if he works hard enough and I've no doubt he will. He has the self-belief to go away for a year with a top coach and get himself ready for another shot at it next preseason.

I don't think we have reached the end of Tim Tebow's career.

nerd69

Don't think any team would waste there time on him there are far better developmental qbs out there and I think his refusal to try other positions rubs teams the wrong way

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

He is 25 so its not over just yet. I think with New England he showed improved footwork and his throwing technique was good. He had accuracy issues and he was slow to release and slow to read too. These things can be fixed if he works hard enough and I've no doubt he will. He has the self-belief to go away for a year with a top coach and get himself ready for another shot at it next preseason.

I don't think we have reached the end of Tim Tebow's career.