What would you do with Tim Tebow?

TO.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

McDaniels drafted him because of the hype - nothing to do with Tebow's ability.

Oh you know Josh McDaniels do you? Have an inside track to his thoughts and views? The bitterness is strong with you when it comes to Tebow and the Broncos.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

We tried to ship Mallet during the draft and failed so it is clear Mallet is going to look to walk or be shipped within the next 12 months for first team action.

I'm not to sure about that, the Browns actively pursued a trade not the Pats. They offered a thrid round pick for Mallet and the Pats would not entertain it. The Buccs were also very interested along with another 4 teams I believe.

I really couldn't see the Pats bringing Tebow to town. The media crap this guy brings alone, is the very antithesis of how the Pats like to conduct themselves. But then again I suppose you could argue, that no organisation is better equipped to shut them out and protect him. But he's not a long term starting QB and I see no point in taking a guy like him

Jolly Red Giant

TO. wrote: »

Oh you know Josh McDaniels do you? Have an inside track to his thoughts and views? The bitterness is strong with you when it comes to Tebow and the Broncos.

Bowlen made a serious error hiring McDaniels - he wanted to go the Patriot way because of the success the Pats have had. The problem is that no one has ever been able to replicate the way the Pats do stuff. Bowlen gave McDaniels way too much power and it went to his head. Anyone with an real interest in the Broncos would have listened to the press conferences, read the reports and knew what was going on - the arrogance , the inability to work with others etc.

When McDaniels was appointed I, along with most Broncos fans, was willing to give him an opportunity to prove he knew what he was doing - he didn't and that became obvious from very early on in his reign. The selection of Tebow in the first round sealed his reputation for every Broncos fan. You did not have to be any kind of an expert to know that Tebow would struggle badly in the NFL as QB and the hype was going to be a major distraction. Wasting a first round pick on Tebow confirmed that McDaniels was more interested in headline sthan building a team. All of this proved to be correct and McDaniels was eventually sacked for his failure (probably a year too late). Unless he becomes a lot more humble and considerate of others he will never succeed as an NFL head coach (I would be surprised if he is ever offered a HC job again and if he is I would expect him to replicate his monumental failure in Denver).

TO.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Bowlen made a serious error hiring McDaniels - he wanted to go the Patriot way because of the success the Pats have had. The problem is that no one has ever been able to replicate the way the Pats do stuff. Bowlen gave McDaniels way too much power and it went to his head. Anyone with an real interest in the Broncos would have listened to the press conferences, read the reports and knew what was going on - the arrogance , the inability to work with others etc.

When McDaniels was appointed I, along with most Broncos fans, was willing to give him an opportunity to prove he knew what he was doing - he didn't and that became obvious from very early on in his reign. The selection of Tebow in the first round sealed his reputation for every Broncos fan. You did not have to be any kind of an expert to know that Tebow would struggle badly in the NFL as QB and the hype was going to be a major distraction. Wasting a first round pick on Tebow confirmed that McDaniels was more interested in headline sthan building a team. All of this proved to be correct and McDaniels was eventually sacked for his failure (probably a year too late). Unless he becomes a lot more humble and considerate of others he will never succeed as an NFL head coach (I would be surprised if he is ever offered a HC job again and if he is I would expect him to replicate his monumental failure in Denver).

None of this proves McDaniels bought into the hype rather than the belief he could do something with Tebow. None of us have any clue why McDaniels took Tebow so early. There have been more solid suggestions though than your belief that McDaniels thought he could turn Tebow into a NFL QB given his track record as a QB coach and offensive Coordinator and having worked with Brady and Cassell. Just because everyone else thought Tebow would fail doesn't mean McDaniels did also.

In fact part of the Patriot way if you want to bring that into the equation is to ignore what everyone else does and do everything to make your own team better. As for the bit in bold again you are speculating as to his frame of mind.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'm not to sure about that, the Browns actively pursued a trade not the Pats. They offered a thrid round pick for Mallet and the Pats would not entertain it. The Buccs were also very interested along with another 4 teams I believe.

The fact we entertained the calls shows there is willingness to make a trade but the price is the issue. The Pats as we all know are smart at trading certain players and in this case Mallett wont go cheap if we ship him which I believe we will eventually as lets face it Brady isn't done anytime soon. I don't see Mallett as Brady's replacement.

But then again I suppose you could argue, that no organisation is better equipped to shut them out and protect him. But he's not a long term starting QB and I see no point in taking a guy like him

Exactly the Patriots are one of very few teams who can deal with the media and shut the whole thing up if they took Tebow. Besides no one in the media is ever going to suggest that Tebow should start over Brady. As for my point taking him its not for the now its for the later. A low risk attempt to try fix him.

eagle eye

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Bowlen made a serious error hiring McDaniels - he wanted to go the Patriot way because of the success the Pats have had. The problem is that no one has ever been able to replicate the way the Pats do stuff. Bowlen gave McDaniels way too much power and it went to his head. Anyone with an real interest in the Broncos would have listened to the press conferences, read the reports and knew what was going on - the arrogance , the inability to work with others etc.

When McDaniels was appointed I, along with most Broncos fans, was willing to give him an opportunity to prove he knew what he was doing - he didn't and that became obvious from very early on in his reign. The selection of Tebow in the first round sealed his reputation for every Broncos fan. You did not have to be any kind of an expert to know that Tebow would struggle badly in the NFL as QB and the hype was going to be a major distraction. Wasting a first round pick on Tebow confirmed that McDaniels was more interested in headline sthan building a team. All of this proved to be correct and McDaniels was eventually sacked for his failure (probably a year too late). Unless he becomes a lot more humble and considerate of others he will never succeed as an NFL head coach (I would be surprised if he is ever offered a HC job again and if he is I would expect him to replicate his monumental failure in Denver).

At the time it looked like he made some bad decisions but when you look back now its different. Letting Peyton Hillis go was a popular stick to beat him with as he put up big numbers in Cleveland but he has done nothing since so it was a good decision to let him go. Knowshon Moreno looked like a good one, then a not so good one but then he came back this year late in the season and impressed so he mightn't be that bad at all.
Demaryius Thomas was an excellent pick. Tebow came in as starter when you guys were 1-4 and got you to the divisional round of the playoffs which means he did a good job before he was turfed out in favour of Peyton Manning who has not won a playoff game for Denver yet.
Zane Beadles, J D Walton, Eric Decker and Robert Ayers were all good picks. He didn't do that badly there.

Jolly Red Giant

eagle eye wrote: »

At the time it looked like he made some bad decisions but when you look back now its different.

I don't agree

eagle eye wrote: »

Letting Peyton Hillis go was a popular stick to beat him with as he put up big numbers in Cleveland but he has done nothing since so it was a good decision to let him go.

Never like Hillis - thought he was always overhyped - wasn't bothered when he was shipped out.

eagle eye wrote: »

Knowshon Moreno looked like a good one, then a not so good one but then he came back this year late in the season and impressed so he mightn't be that bad at all.

Moreno is slow, cumbersome, gets hurt a lot and has some fumbling issues - he does occasionally grind out yards but he is not remotely close to a No.12 pick in the draft - he plays like a fourth or fifth rounder. Moreno will probably be cut this off-season

eagle eye wrote: »

Demaryius Thomas was an excellent pick.

McDaniels was fortunate with Thomas - yes he has turned into a potential perennial pro-bowler - but when he was drafted there were major injury concerns about him. McDaniels could probably have got him in the 2nd round where he was actually graded.

eagle eye wrote: »

Tebow came in as starter when you guys were 1-4 and got you to the divisional round of the playoffs which means he did a good job before he was turfed out in favour of Peyton Manning who has not won a playoff game for Denver yet.

As I said earlier - Tebow was a one hit wonder - once the DCs had enough tape Tebow was done as an NFL QB. Manning or Tebow - hands down no contest - one is among the elite QBs ever to play the game - the other is an overhyped gimmick player.

Taking the 2009 Draft as a whole -
12. Moreno - as described above
18. Ayers - has never produced anything consistently - I am not as critical as many Broncos fans - but he was no where near an 18 pick and everyone except McDaniels knew it. After his second season most broncos fans were demanding he be cut. He might do a job against the run at DE this season but he will have to up his game big-time or he'll be on the FA market.
37. Alphonso Smith - excuse me while I puke - and McDaniels traded away a first round pick in 2010 to draft him - The Seahawks took Earl Thomas with the pick - aaarrrgh :mad:
48. Darcel MacBath - wavied by Denver and by the Jags and now on the back end of the 49ers roster.
64. Richard Quinn - third player in the 2nd round and third waste of a pick. Smith was puke - Quinn was puke with diced carrots. Couldn't catch - couldn't block - couldn't run a route and has caught 1 pass for 9 yards in four years. What is worse - Denver gave Pittsburgh their 3rd rounder to move up to draft Quinn (who would probably have gone undrafted) and the Steelers pick Mike Wallace.
Of the reamaining picks David Bruton is a good ST player in Denver - the rest are fogettable (RIP McKinney)

2010 Draft
22. Thomas - has worked out well - but was a major reach because of injuries
25. Tebow - was a fourth rounder and Denver trade 3 picks to get him
45. Zane Beadles - decent guard but not as good as suggested by his pro-bowl selection. Will probably leave in FA next year and not many Broncos fans will be terribly worried.
80. DJ Walton - has injury issues - hated playing with Tebow - had built up a good understanding with Manning and could develop into a good centre if he comes back from injury.
87. Eric Decker - good pick at 87 - not as good as the hype suggests and will slip in the pecking order if another WR emerges - decent 3rd or probably 4th WR.
137. Perrish Cox - came into the draft with major character flaws which is why he slipped in the draft - his character flaws caused his release by Denver and he was never anything remotely close to his pre-draft hype.

The remaining pick with the exception of Squid - were a waste - Squid had potential until his injury and is now out of the game.

Of the two drafts Denver got one starter and a half decent DE from 4 first round picks, and four second round picks during McDaniels tenure - that is pretty much a wasted two years. He went for style and publicity over substance.

I will give McDaniels credit for dumping Cutler on Chicago - but he made an absolute waste of the returns he got in the trade.

Over the past 2 years the Broncos have got one of the best defensvie players in the NFL - Von Miller - a starting safety - Rahim Moore - a starting tackle - Orlando Franklin - a starting DE/DT - Derek Wolfe - hitting with their only first round pick and three second rounders (the fourth second rounder went on Osweiller who we won't know about for a couple of years) - plus they got a host of decent back-up players on the roster which was wafer thin after McDaniels. Elway and Fox have done an immesurably better job than McDaniels and most Bronco fans were very happy with the 2013 draft as well which will probably deliver a starting DT - a starting RB - and a specialist pass rusher - at the very least.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

The fact we entertained the calls shows there is willingness to make a trade but the price is the issue. The Pats as we all know are smart at trading certain players and in this case Mallett wont go cheap if we ship him which I believe we will eventually as lets face it Brady isn't done anytime soon. I don't see Mallett as Brady's replacement.

I have no doubt they might be a willingness to trade Mallett at some stage. But I never it felt it was a reaslitic possibility this season. No doubt he will get a lot more time this preseason to show what he can do and thus keep his value if a trade is likely. Personally I like Mallet, he needs to control his power at times because he has some cannon. But that's something that game time could sort out. He's a classic pocket QB and I think he has all the tools needed to cover god forbid if anything happened to Brady. Whether he'd be willing to hang around though and bide his time is anyone's guess.

TO. wrote: »

Exactly the Patriots are one of very few teams who can deal with the media and shut the whole thing up if they took Tebow. Besides no one in the media is ever going to suggest that Tebow should start over Brady. As for my point taking him its not for the now its for the later. A low risk attempt to try fix him.

That's true, there would be no shouting/controversy RE: about which QB should start. It would be low risk alright, but do you think he could be fixed enough to be a starter? He has a lot of work to do to improve on a 46.5% completion in 2011. But here's where I'm conflicted, I really do like the dude because he is a born winner and leader. He had no control over a lot of media hype and BS that surrounds him. So If the Pats did take him, working under Brady as a mentor undoubtedly would be the best place for him. Brady has the best throwing mechanics in the business, so Tebow is bound to learn from him. But as I've said, I just can't see it happening.

Realt Dearg Sec

http://www.theonion.com/articles/forbes-names-tim-tebow-worlds-most-influential-for,32373/

HigginsJ

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22285990/chuck-norris-is-a-tim-tebow-fan-thinks-jaguars-should-sign-him

Tebow to Jags a done deal :P

Paully D

Patriots are signing him. My guess is they'll just have a look at him and end up cutting him before the start of the season, but:

HE'S BACK! :pac:

Syferus

You don't bring a guy like Tebow in just to have a look at. You have to believe he has worth, either as trade bait in future or as Brady's replacement long down the line. He's reuniting with McDaniels, remember.

Good for all parties if he sticks around a few years and is able to focus on growing as a passer without expectations of starting. If I was Ryan Malett I'd be squirming in my seat right about now, though.

Fair play to the Hoodie for having the guts (and probably disregard for the media angle) to take a chance on Tebow. He wasn't just offering hollow praise when Tebow was coming out of college and saying nice things about him.

SantryRed

Syferus wrote: »

You don't bring a guy like Tebow in just to have a look at. You have to believe he has worth, either as trade bait in future or as Brady's replacement long down the line.

Good for all parties if he sticks around a few years and able to focus on growing as a passer without expectations of starting.

If I was Ryan Malett I'd be squirming in my seat right about now.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

HA.

Syferus

Haters gonna hate.

Red Crow

Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Packers and the Giants are probably the only organisations that can sign him without the circus surrounding him.

He at least deserves a spot in training camp.

TO.

Eli Manning wrote: »

Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Packers and the Giants are probably the only organisations that can sign him without the circus surrounding him.

He at least deserves a spot in training camp.

I actually agree and if anyone can fix him it will be the Pats. What this will prove though is that if the Pats can't get anything out of him no one will. Having Bill and Tom helping him can only be a good thing for Timmy. And it will also be a low risk move for the Pats also. So both camps win either way.

Realt Dearg Sec

Good call by TO on this one on the move to the Pats. Whatever hype Tebow brings to a team wont really have much effect, since nobody is going to call for him to replace Brady anyway. Given how positive everyone is about Russell coming back to the league and how he deserves another shot, it's odd that people think he can't even work as a back up. Think about some of the back ups that are there throughout the league right now: could people who hate Tebow honestly say he isn't as good as some of those guys (the answer is no: you haven't heard of most of those guys, because they're not good).

Syferus

TO. wrote: »

I actually agree and if anyone can fix him it will be the Pats. What this will prove though is that if the Pats can't get anything out of him no one will. Having Bill and Tom helping him can only be a good thing for Timmy. And it will also be a low risk move for the Pats also. So both camps win either way.

What's the over-under on the number of play-off games he has to win for the Pats for you start calling him Tim?

frostie500

Delighted for Tebow to get the chance at the Pats. I said earlier in the thread that they're one of the logical teams for him with McDaniels at the team but most importantly an established QB and Head Coach who wont be under pressure to throw Tebow into games once the team hits a bad run of form. He can sit for the next few years (if he lasts that long) with a clipboard in his hand learning how a HoF QB prepares for games and reads defences. He may never sort out the areas that he is lacking in but the Pats give him his best chance of ever succeding

helimachoptor

Man this thread is very weird, can we just get back to talking about Tebow and let TO coach and syferus you do what you do? I'd like to read other people's opinion on this move by the pats!

nerd69

not sure what hes gona do with the pats unless there planning on trading ryan mallet and even at that he does not seem like a bb type of qb having said that josh mcdaniels drafted him so is obviously a big fan.

it will be interesting to see what the pats do if god forbid top brady goes down.

this would be a situation i would normally say they will keep him for a year and trade him but it would seem nobody wanted him for free so a trade seems out of the question

Chucky the tree

Possible that with Gronk injury problems they see Tebow as a potential replacement. I'm sure they will give him the "oh we definitely want you as QB" speech and training but I wouldn't be surprised if on game day they get him into packages as a catcher. I doubt they have any long term interest if developing such a flawed QB - it would be almost impossible.


Either that or I give it two months until Bill is sick of the circus and just cuts him.

Paully D

Not sure if the catching will go too well :pac:

HigginsJ

Paully D wrote: »

Not sure if the catching will go too well :pac:

To be fair that was Sanchez throwing him the ball.

taidghbaby

Don't understand why you would use Tebow as RB/HB/TE! Surely players who have played those positions since college would be better? He's an athletic QB but wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary as a TE etc.!

Son Of A Vidic

One thing is for certain, Tebow will know he's bottom of the QB order. He also knows that he doesn't even come close to even filling one of Brady's shoes. But that should help him to sit back and learn. This could be the ultimate Belichick transformation project. If he could turn Tebow around as a QB and upskill him, then that could probably be one the greatest player transformations in NFL history. Sitting behind Sanchez he learned nothing, sitting behind Brady he can learn everything. Then again he mightn't even be on the roster come September, only time will tell.

adrian522

Well if he can't learn to be a competent QB in New England he can't learn to be a competent QB.

TO.

adrian522 wrote: »

Well if he can't learn to be a competent QB in New England he can't learn to be a competent QB.

Agreed. I said this yesterday also. I really do think going to the Pats is last chance saloon for him. If he fails under them and can't fix his mistakes if Bill's ambition is to turn him into to a project QB then Tebow is doomed as no one will bother with him anymore.

Syferus

Don't see him not making the roster, there is literally no QB3 in the league with as much upside or ultility potential as Tebow. Given NE won't really be bothered by the media attraction there isn't much reason to cut him, it's not like he's going to be a bad teammate.

More than the Hoodie angle I think it will be interesting what McDaniels' plans are for Tebow given he thought highly enough of him to draft him in the first round. The Patriots obviously love players who can moonlight in other positions so we could see more meaningful time for Tebow next year than last.

davyjose

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

One thing is for certain, Tebow will know he's bottom of the QB order. He also knows that he doesn't even come close to even filling one of Brady's shoes. But that should help him to sit back and learn. This could be the ultimate Belichick transformation project. If he could turn Tebow around as a QB and upskill him, then that could probably be one the greatest player transformations in NFL history. Sitting behind Sanchez he learned nothing, sitting behind Brady he can learn everything. Then again he mightn't even be on the roster come September, only time will tell.

I would say working with McDaniels will be of more benefit. Brady's job is not to make Tebow a better QB, but you can be sure McDaniels' is. He's put his reputation on the line for him twice.

And I think if he'd they'd completed the job, TT would be a much more capable passer by now.