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British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

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    #602
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Morlar wrote: »
    If that was ALL this was about there would not be a problem.

    To the person remembering it, it maybe just about WWI or WWII and nothing to do whatsoever with Northern Ireland.

    Some familes would have descendents from both the British Army in WWI and old IRA who died. All they are doing is remembering both by wearing the poppy and the Lily.

    Both symbols have negative connotations if people look hard enough.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #603
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    K-9 wrote: »
    To the person remembering it, it maybe just about WWI or WWII and nothing to do whatsoever with Northern Ireland.

    Ignorance of murderous activity in NI is no excuse, they know well that they are funding the lifestyle of the killers of hundreds of civilians in NI as well as Iraq etc.


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    #604
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    gurramok wrote: »
    Ignorance of murderous activity in NI is no excuse, they know well that they are funding the lifestyle of the killers of hundreds of civilians in NI as well as Iraq etc.

    The Lily has negative consequences as well, that's the problem. People pointing at one of them and wearing the other, are a bit hypocritical tbh.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #605
    drumaneen
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭drumaneen


    No (I'm Irish)
    See an 'Irish Poppy" here http://rbl-limerick.webs.com/. Available now online.


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    #606
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    getz wrote: »
    Excellent. Glad I am not the only one who sees this.

    Interestingly the USA does not show coffins of dead soldiers returning as support would plummet.

    In the UK by contrast, they cant get enough of the coffins of soldiers of TV...hell that town just got a Royal Charter. It taps into the national psyche of wallowing and keeps the show going.

    Am sure their is a PhD waiting for someone on that point.
    quick easy answer,why are you watching british TV,reading british newspapers ,and more interested in what the british are up to, than living you own life ? and i think the PHD would be more interested in your mind than the british nation[/QUOTE]

    LOL...quick easy answer to what? Is that the extent of your contribution...very intelligent...:rolleyes:

    ps...I live in England...;)


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    #607
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Carrying a gun and being a member of a terrorist organisation is illegal in Ireland as well.


    Oh dear...there is a lot you do not understand.


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    #608
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    It'll be 1690 when the regular Northern contributor arrives on the scene. This thread's like a Doctor Who episode on acid.


    Yes because 1918 is more in vogue...:rolleyes:


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    #609
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Aah, the blind moralistic bull**** of the terrorist sympathiser.


    It takes one to know one...;)


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    #610
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    partyguinness wrote: »
    quick easy answer,why are you watching british TV,reading british newspapers ,and more interested in what the british are up to, than living you own life ? and i think the PHD would be more interested in your mind than the british nation

    LOL...quick easy answer to what? Is that the extent of your contribution...very intelligent...:rolleyes:

    ps...I live in England...;)[/QUOTE]
    talking about the hand that feeds you,[they let anyone in the UK nowadays]the british legions poppy appeal is a charity,not some secret british agenda to undermine a free ireland, no one is telling anyone that they should wear a poppy,but there are many on these threads who seem to believe its un-patroitic to be seen with one on in ireland,


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    #611
    Rubecula
    Registered Users Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭Rubecula


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    I will be and have been wearing mine withh a certain amount of pride. I will continue to do so. What others do is entirely up to them.


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    #612
    rsole1
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭rsole1


    Fetchthegin - You managed to destroy your country all on your own this time.


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    #613
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Oh dear...there is a lot you do not understand.

    Yes there is, tracker mortgages for one.

    You on the other hand know it all I presume.


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    #614
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 23,992 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    partyguinness wrote: »
    Yes because 1918 is more in vogue...:rolleyes:

    As a reply to my post, your comment doesn't seem to be relevant, or even meaningful.:confused:


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    #615
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    gurramok wrote: »
    Ignorance of murderous activity in NI is no excuse, they know well that they are funding the lifestyle of the killers of hundreds of civilians in NI as well as Iraq etc.

    Who remembers the victims of nationalism, I wonders.

    Who wears a flower for those still missing, buried under some nameless grave?


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    #616
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    old hippy wrote: »
    Who remembers the victims of nationalism, I wonders.

    Who wears a flower for those still missing, buried under some nameless grave?

    That is a good point.

    Irish people should be more ashamed of the lily, if it does indeed commemorate those that died in the IRA, then it is also commemorating the people that killed thousands of civilians.

    Or, put it another way, the Irish Republican Paramilitaries killed more Irish people than the British army, so the Lilly that is sold by SF etc is more disrespectful to Irish people than the Poppy.


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    #617
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That is a good point.

    Irish people should be more ashamed of the Poppy, if it does indeed commemorate those that died in the IRA, then it is also commemorating the people that killed thousands of civilians.

    Or, put it another way, the Irish Republican Paramilitaries killed more Irish people than the British army, so the Lilly that is sold by SF etc is more disrespectful to Irish people than the Poppy.

    Don't tell us who we should be proud of and who we shouldn't be. We're Irish, not British. Keep your poppy.


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    #618
    SWL
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭SWL


    old hippy wrote: »
    The Republic of Ireland and NI are two different countries.

    No they are not, they are different Jurisdictions


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    #619
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Don't tell us who we should be proud of and who we shouldn't be. We're Irish, not British. Keep your poppy.

    I will thanks.


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    #620
    Leftist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Don't tell us who we should be proud of and who we shouldn't be. We're Irish, not British. Keep your poppy.
    What an ridiculous statement.


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    #621
    Leftist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    SWL wrote: »
    No they are not, they are different Jurisdictions
    What? :D

    Jurisdiction:
    the power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law. 2. a : the authority of a sovereign power to govern or legislate

    That would suggest they are part of the same governing body.

    They are not.

    They are two seperate states.


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    #622
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    Don't tell us who we should be proud of and who we shouldn't be. We're Irish, not British. Keep your poppy.

    Don't tell us who we should be proud of and who we shouldn't be. We're human beings after all. One world. Keep your hatreds.


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    #623
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    SWL wrote: »
    No they are not, they are different Jurisdictions

    Different countries


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    #624
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That is a good point.

    Irish people should be more ashamed of the lily, if it does indeed commemorate those that died in the IRA, then it is also commemorating the people that killed thousands of civilians.

    Or, put it another way, the Irish Republican Paramilitaries killed more Irish people than the British army, so the Lilly that is sold by SF etc is more disrespectful to Irish people than the Poppy.

    How many million innocent people were killed by the British Army in the name of your poppy? Kinda negates the point you made above eh?


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    #625
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Robert Fisk writes an excellent article on the poppy 'fashion appendage' in today's British Independent (the London British one that is, not the Irish British one).

    "Do those who flaunt the poppy on their lapels know that they mock the war dead?"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html


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    #626
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No (I'm Irish)
    SWL wrote: »
    Will you also be wearing the Easter lily to commemorate “many good Irish men” who fought in the 1916/civil wars?

    If not why not – the men who fought in those wars were also brave good men – I would hate to think you are wearing the poppy to antagonise or simply because it’s glamorous.

    I believe that political efforts carried out by Irish politicians in Westminster did much more to further freedom than any militant bearing a gun did. You could say that I'm skeptical of the narrative that has been whipped up by many to turn the 1916 Rising or the Civil War into glorious events. One could argue that the latter was wholly futile, and the former not far behind at least in comparison to the huge amount of effort put into ensuring that the Home Rule Bill passed through parliament.

    Most people would say that war should only be a last resort. I don't believe the poppy is worn to say that war is great and fantastic, but rather it is used to remember those who died during the course of war.


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    #627
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    old hippy wrote: »
    Who remembers the victims of nationalism, I wonders.

    Who wears a flower for those still missing, buried under some nameless grave?

    They certainly do not remember the victims of the British Army, they remember the killers of unarmed civilians alright by wearing a poppy, all murdered in their name.


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    #628
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No (I'm Irish)
    gurramok wrote: »
    They certainly do not remember the victims of the British Army, they remember the killers of unarmed civilians alright by wearing a poppy, all murdered in their name.

    What does this have to do with people remembering the dead at war? - Yes, what the British Army did in Northern Ireland at times was disgraceful, and what the Provos / RIRA etc did in Northern Ireland was disgraceful. There has been a certain acknowledgement of that on both sides.

    Why should this preclude people taking time out on November 11th to remember those who have fallen at war?


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    #629
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    philologos wrote: »
    What does this have to do with people remembering the dead at war? - Yes, what the British Army did in Northern Ireland at times was disgraceful, and what the Provos / RIRA etc did in Northern Ireland was disgraceful. There has been a certain acknowledgement of that on both sides.

    Why should this preclude people taking time out on November 11th to remember those who have fallen at war?

    In case you have not read the thread, buying a poppy funds the welfare of the killers on Bloody Sunday for example, thats why it is relevant.


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    #630
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    No (I'm Irish)
    gurramok wrote: »
    In case you have not read the thread, buying a poppy funds the welfare of the killers on Bloody Sunday for example, thats why it is relevant.

    As other posters have noted, the money that is raised in Ireland is spent on members in the Republic of Ireland. Money raised in Britain is raised for members in Britain.

    This is one of these threads where dogmatic nationalists tell people what is and what isn't acceptable for Irish people to do. Ultimately people have brains and will come to their own conclusions.

    If you don't want to get a poppy that's fine, but as for what other people do, that's what they will do. The same with the Easter Lily. Personally, I'll never wear one but if others want to why not?


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    #631
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    philologos wrote: »
    As other posters have noted, the money that is raised in Ireland is spent on members in the Republic of Ireland. Money raised in Britain is raised for members in Britain.

    This is one of these threads where dogmatic nationalists tell people what is and what isn't acceptable for Irish people to do. Ultimately people have brains and will come to their own conclusions.

    If you don't want to get a poppy that's fine, but as for what other people do, that's what they will do. The same with the Easter Lily. Personally, I'll never wear one but if others want to why not?

    Its offensive as their funds help the killers of Irish people murdered by the British Army in Northern Ireland no matter what jurisdiction those killers were from. People have brains to realise funding those killers is not on.


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