British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

slapbangwallop

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Sigh.....you've missed my point completely.

I am neither ignorant or uneducated.......unless wanted keep my great-grandfather's memory alive is ignorant.

There is a difference between remember the past and being stuck in it. Your post is every bit as arrogant and ignorant as you claim mine to be.

You should be proud of your grandfather and uncle, not embarressed. I suggest it is you who needs to rethink your opinions, not me.

I'm not embarrassed. I love my grandfather and named my only son after him. He is embarrassed about it. Read my post.

P.S. Are you Irish? Legit question.

slapbangwallop

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Black and Tans weren't British army. The Poppy doesn't represent them.

The Poppy isnt just for the British Army, its for the Navy, Air Force and all the service the scumbag death industry that is propigated as heroism by the British media to feed to machine.

It ****ing disgusts me.

If people are going to wear a Poppy then are least they should know what its about and where the money goes. If they do and are happy with that then let them defend it.

Just not I am NOT political, part of any organisation and dont even vote but this PC Poppy propaganda bull**** erks me.

Fratton Fred

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Yeah of course it does yeah, thats logical.

If you can think of a better word for the braindead bullet catchers they drag in off the dole from sink estates in Wigan, Skipton and Jarrow on the promise of adventure and comradeship when the reality is that they will be sent to do the Army's dirty work and then dumped after their stint and good chance of ending up unemployed, bitter, homeless, dependant on drugs or with depression then fire ahead.

Does that apply to all soldiers, or just British ones?

What about those who leave university and go to Sandhurst, are they "Mongs" as well?

Fratton Fred

slapbangwallop wrote: »

The Poppy isnt just for the British Army, its for the Navy, Air Force and all the service the scumbag death industry that is propigated are heroism.

It ****ing disgusts me.

If people are going to wear a Poppy then are least they should know what its about and where the money goes. If they do and are happy with that then let them defend it.

The Black and Tans weren't Navy or Air Force either.

I support the war in Afghanistan and I salute those people brave enough to go out there and fight.

slapbangwallop

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Black and Tans weren't Navy or Air Force either.

I support the war in Afghanistan and I salute those people brave enough to go out there and fight.

Read what I wrote. It commemorates ALL servicemen and women in the British Armed Services, which the Auxiliary Division (better known as the Black and Tans) was a part of.

I know it doesnt suit your agenda but there we go eh. I bet there isnt a poster next year saying "Wear a Poppy, support the Tans" of course not, sweep that under the carpet, focus only of the World War, that suits the agenda.

If people are going to support the Poppy then they should know what its all about, which you obviously dont, instead of blindly swallow propaganda.

P.S. Like with Audrey, are you Irish? I am not anti-British, far from it but with a name like "Fratton Fred" something tells me you have an affinity with the soth coast of England.

K-9

Cú Giobach wrote: »

According to some on this forum those who commemorate Irish dead over the centuries are "stuck in the past" and those that commemorate British dead are "remembering the past".
Anyone see something odd about this?

Tbh I see a lot of amnesia from some on here. People point to what the British Army did and then forget what the IRA did.

slapbangwallop

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Does that apply to all soldiers, or just British ones?

What about those who leave university and go to Sandhurst, are they "Mongs" as well?

What percentage of the force get to go to Sanhurst?

I know too well their recruitment tactics. They are disgusting and prey on the vunerable.

Fratton Fred

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Read what I wrote. It commemorates ALL servicemen and women in the British Armed Services, which the Auxiliary Division (better known as the Black and Tans) was a part of.

I know it doesnt suit your agenda but there we go eh. I bet there isnt a poster next year saying "Wear a Poppy, support the Tans" of course not, sweep that under the carpet, focus only of the World War, that suits the agenda.

If people are going to support the Poppy then they should know what its all about, which you obviously dont, instead of blindly swallow propaganda.

P.S. Like with Audrey, are you Irish? I am not anti-British, far from it but with a name like "Fratton Fred" something tells me you have an affinity with the soth coast of England.

British Armed Services does not include the Police force, or Royal Irish Constabulary, which is what the Black and Tans were.

I know what the Poppy is about, as I said, I support the action in Afghanistan, just as believe the soldiers injured in Iraq deserve recognition.

Unfortunately a few British soldiers have let the nation down, but in the main, the vast majority of British soldiers have served/ are serving with honour and dignity. That why I support the RBL poppy appeal.

In both WWI and WWII hundreds of thousands of men were conscripted, fought and were killed of injured, most of whom were fighting normal, everyday conscripted men like themselves. I wear a poppy to remember them.

Yes, I don't think it is any great secret that I am English.

Fratton Fred

slapbangwallop wrote: »

What percentage of the force get to go to Sanhurst?

I know too well their recruitment tactics. They are disgusting and prey on the vunerable.

How do you know their recruiting tactics?

slapbangwallop

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How do you know their recruiting tactics?

Because they tried to recruit me! and I have seen them outside jobcentres and at fairs etc targetting young lads at their lowest ebb.

I didnt know you were English actually, but it figures. However, I find it a little rich that you are on this thread arguing that Irish people should wear a Poppy.

If British people want to wear it then fair enough, I shant argue with them but Irish people need to wake up to what the Poppy is really about and it commemorates every single British solider that ever stepped foot in Ireland and the ones that remain in the north. If they support them then fair enough please fire ahead but dont expect me to like it.

Fratton Fred

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Because they tried to recruit me! and I have seen them outside jobcentres and at fairs etc targetting young lads at their lowest ebb.

I didnt know you were English actually, but it figures. However, I find it a little rich that you are on this thread arguing that Irish people should wear a Poppy.

If British people want to wear it then fair enough, I shant argue with them but Irish people need to wake up to what the Poppy is really about and it commemorates every single British solider that ever stepped foot in Ireland and the ones that remain in the north. If they support them then fair enough please fire ahead but dont expect me to like it.

The British Army were recruiting in Ireland? That's a bit odd isn't it.

I'm not saying Irish people should wear a poppy, but if you go back to me first post in this thread, I did day that I would expect people to respect someone elses right to wear a poppy.

And the British Army are in the North, because as part of the UK's armed forces, they have a right to be there, just as the PDF have a right to be in the Curragh.

slapbangwallop

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The British Army were recruiting in Ireland? That's a bit odd isn't it.

I'm not saying Irish people should wear a poppy, but if you go back to me first post in this thread, I did day that I would expect people to respect someone elses right to wear a poppy.

And the British Army are in the North, because as part of the UK's armed forces, they have a right to be there, just as the PDF have a right to be in the Curragh.

Who said I live in Ireland? But yes they have tried to directly recruit from Ireland (26).

Without opening up a debate that will bring us back to the 1920's and beyond lets just say that "we will agree to diagree on that" then.

LondonIrish90

No (I'm British/not Irish)

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Because they tried to recruit me! and I have seen them outside jobcentres and at fairs etc targetting young lads at their lowest ebb.

I didnt know you were English actually, but it figures. However, I find it a little rich that you are on this thread arguing that Irish people should wear a Poppy.

If British people want to wear it then fair enough, I shant argue with them but Irish people need to wake up to what the Poppy is really about and it commemorates every single British solider that ever stepped foot in Ireland and the ones that remain in the north. If they support them then fair enough please fire ahead but dont expect me to like it.

Fred hasn't said that he believes Irish people should wear a poppy. Nobody has said that in any way. What has been defended by a few is the right of people to wear a poppy. In truth, this thread has never really been about the wearing of the poppy by the Irish but about what people believe it stands for. Hilarious and utterly futile when you look at it in that manner as it is inherently a hugely personal symbol to most people.

Your hatred and anger is unfortunate I suppose but nobody is expecting anybody to like it - I don't think anybody who wears one (in Britain at least) particularly cares of the international opinion of this significant time of year.

Some of the personal comments have been unneccesary in this thread I think (I shall not lie, I have personally insulted one or two) but what has been most saddening is the fact that people have manufactured arguments to suit their begrudging viewpoints. Things such as the motives behind wearing a poppy, what it represents, the intellectual capacity of those who fight in the British Armed Forces etc. It has been quite cringeworthy at times.

slapbangwallop

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Fred hasn't said that he believes Irish people should wear a poppy. Nobody has said that in any way. What has been defended by a few is the right of people to wear a poppy. In truth, this thread has never really been about the wearing of the poppy by the Irish but about what people believe it stands for. Hilarious and utterly futile when you look at it in that manner as it is inherently a hugely personal symbol to most people.

Your hatred and anger is unfortunate I suppose but nobody is expecting anybody to like it - I don't think anybody who wears one (in Britain at least) particularly cares of the international opinion of this significant time of year.

Some of the personal comments have been unneccesary in this thread I think (I shall not lie, I have personally insulted one or two) but what has been most saddening is the fact that people have manufactured arguments to suit their begrudging viewpoints. Things such as the motives behind wearing a poppy, what it represents, the intellectual capacity of those who fight in the British Armed Forces etc. It has been quite cringeworthy at times.

Oh another English person coming on here to tell Irish people what they shoud do or think.

Read the thread title "British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?"

Do you know what, we can make our minds up with the three English cheerleaders (Fratton, Audrey and You) telling us what we need to think.

I love the way are trying to portray people that disagree with your viewpoint as having "hatred and anger" or being "begrudging".

Actually no, you are wrong. Like I said, my uncle and grandfather were in the British Army during World War II.

I just think it is incredibly stupid that Irish people would want to pay homage (and fund!) a force that occupied their country for hundreds or years and caused untold misery.

It is an issue that doesnt occupy my every waking day but since the subject has been raised I would ratheruse rational logic than PC propaganda.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/11/07/ex-sas-soldier-blasts-poppy-appeal-as-a-political-tool-91466-27614172/

old hippy

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Oh another English person coming on here to tell Irish people what they shoud do or think.

Read the thread title "British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?"

Do you know what, we can make our minds up with the three English cheerleaders (Fratton, Audrey and You) telling us what we need to think.

I love the way are trying to portray people that disagree with your viewpoint as having "hatred and anger" or being "begrudging".

Actually no, you are wrong. Like I said, my uncle and grandfather were in the British Army during World War II.

I just think it is incredibly stupid that Irish people would want to pay homage (and fund!) a force that occupied their country for hundreds or years and caused untold misery.

It is an issue that doesnt occupy my every waking day but since the subject has been raised I would ratheruse rational logic than PC propaganda.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/11/07/ex-sas-soldier-blasts-poppy-appeal-as-a-political-tool-91466-27614172/

Everyone's entitled to their views, all the same. Be they Irish, English or otherwise, no?

LondonIrish90

No (I'm British/not Irish)

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Oh another English person coming on here to tell Irish people what they shoud do or think.

Read the thread title "British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?"

Do you know what, we can make our minds up with the three English cheerleaders (Fratton, Audrey and You) telling us what we need to think.

I love the way are trying to portray people that disagree with your viewpoint as having "hatred and anger" or being "begrudging".

Actually no, you are wrong. Like I said, my uncle and grandfather were in the British Army during World War II.

I just think it is incredibly stupid that Irish people would want to pay homage (and fund!) a force that occupied their country for hundreds or years and caused untold misery.

It is an issue that doesnt occupy my every waking day but since the subject has been raised I would ratheruse rational logic than PC propaganda.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/11/07/ex-sas-soldier-blasts-poppy-appeal-as-a-political-tool-91466-27614172/

Did you not bother to read my post or are you just a "mong"? :pac: I think it is rather ironic though that you say I am just

another English person coming on here to tell Irish people what they shoud do or think.

when in fact I started my post with

Fred hasn't said that he believes Irish people should wear a poppy. Nobody has said that in any way. What has been defended by a few is the right of people to wear a poppy.

Not only that, you followed up with this

I just think it is incredibly stupid that Irish people would want to pay homage (and fund!) a force that occupied their country

showing that you have in fact been far more forceful with your opinions of what the Irish should and shouldn't do at this time of year.

Your point on the hatred and anger - I say that as a result of you blindly insulting any young person who decides that a career in the British Armed Forces would suit them. I assume you really aren't so stupid as to believe that every person who does so (a large number of them are extremely intelligent - admission to Sandhust [not sanhurst] is currently hugely competitive and therefore only the most intelligent, articulate and able are admitted) is a "mong" and that such a statement arose from a sense of frustration/anger as opposed to sheer idiocy. Maybe you have just corrected be and you are indeed a moron - will teach me to give people the benefit of the doubt I suppose.

Dozen Wicked Words

Yes (I'm Irish)

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Actually no, you are wrong. Like I said, my uncle and grandfather were in the British Army during World War II.

I just think it is incredibly stupid that Irish people would want to pay homage (and fund!) a force that occupied their country for hundreds or years and caused untold misery.

It is an issue that doesnt occupy my every waking day but since the subject has been raised I would ratheruse rational logic than PC propaganda.

Couple of things, the poll created by the OP has a option for British people, so therefore comment should surely be expected?

Don't think the British Legion fund the British Army (yet anyway, Cameron might use that to help with his cutbacks).

It is a bit sad that the media in the UK are so obsessive about everyone on screen having a poppy, it devalues it for me. They aren't wearing them through choice, they are wearing them because someone shoves one on their lapel before they go on. Zero feeling behind it, its just the "expected" thing to do. I would not object if anyone, from any country, chooses to wear the poppy, and not offended at all if the don't. BBC/ITV/Sky certainly seem to object, just try and count people not wearing poppies on their current affairs output. You won't find too many.

slapbangwallop

old hippy wrote: »

Everyone's entitled to their views, all the same. Be they Irish, English or otherwise, no?

Everyone is entitled to a view of course, however, considering the topic title I wouldnt consider that my opinion about whether or not the pedestrainisation of Norwich High Street was a good thing is as valid as someone that owns a shop on said High Street. If you get my meaning.

old hippy

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to a view of course, however, considering the topic title I wouldnt consider that my opinion about whether or not the pedestrainisation of Norwich High Street was a good thing is as valid as someone that owns a shop on said High Street. If you get my meaning.

A local topic for local people, eh? How parochial :rolleyes:

I think we need a section like the Irish Times Generation Emmigration - seeing as there's so many of us outside the country these days

slapbangwallop

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Your point on the hatred and anger - I say that as a result of you blindly insulting any young person who decides that a career in the British Armed Forces would suit them. I assume you really aren't so stupid as to believe that every person who does so (a large number of them are extremely intelligent - admission to Sandhust [not sanhurst] is currently hugely competitive and therefore only the most intelligent, articulate and able are admitted) is a "mong" and that such a statement arose from a sense of frustration/anger as opposed to sheer idiocy. Maybe you have just corrected be and you are indeed a moron - will teach me to give people the benefit of the doubt I suppose.

You will have to forgive me but I have picked up a touch of malware and it doesnt type out every letter I type when uing internet explorer and I cant be arsed to copyedt my posts.

Riddle me this, what % of the Britsh Army's numbers get to go to Sandhurst (a rotten class ridden nepotistic (is that a word?) bigotted instituation itself) and what % are recruited from deprived northern towns and cities?

slapbangwallop

dooferoaks wrote: »

Couple of things, the poll created by the OP has a option for British people, so therefore comment should surely be expected?

Don't think the British Legion fund the British Army (yet anyway, Cameron might use that to help with his cutbacks).

It is a bit sad that the media in the UK are so obsessive about everyone on screen having a poppy, it devalues it for me. They aren't wearing them through choice, they are wearing them because someone shoves one on their lapel before they go on. Zero feeling behind it, its just the "expected" thing to do. I would not object if anyone, from any country, chooses to wear the poppy, and not offended at all if the don't. BBC/ITV/Sky certainly seem to object, just try and count people not wearing poppies on their current affairs output. You won't find too many.

I agree with a lot of that.

The Poppy is portrayed in the media as simple way toremember those that gave their live or served during WWI & II.

If it was as simple as that then there wouldnt be half the amount of controverse surrounding it.

I think its dsengenuous to have a Poppy that proporting to be one thing but actually commemortates another.

I think that if Irish people knew that the Poppy commemorated all Britsh soliders that occupied Ireland they would have a different view on the subject.

AudreyHepburn

No (I'm British/not Irish)

slapbangwallop wrote: »

I'm not embarrassed. I love my grandfather and named my only son after him. He is embarrassed about it. Read my post.

P.S. Are you Irish? Legit question.

Well that is really quite sad.....he should be proud of himself and you shouldn't be adding to his embarresment by expressing the opinions you are.

Not that my heritage is relevent or any of your business but yes I am Irish born and bred as I stated in my first post.

slapbangwallop

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well that is really quite sad.....he should be proud of himself and you shouldn't be adding to his embarresment by expressing the opinions you are.

Not that my heritage is relevent or any of your business but yes I am Irish born and bred as I stated in my first post.

So my opinions are embarrassing because I dont want to be associated with the soliders that murdered innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday or any other British solider that set foot in Ireland during their long occupation.

What an odd sort of opinion that is.

Badgermonkey

No (I'm Irish)

slapbangwallop wrote: »

I wouldnt consider that my opinion about whether or not the pedestrainisation of Norwich High Street was a good thing is as valid as someone that owns a shop on said High Street. If you get my meaning.

You're paraphrasing Alan Partridge, possibly not the greatest means by which to proffer a cogent argument.

AudreyHepburn

No (I'm British/not Irish)

slapbangwallop wrote: »

So my opinions are embarrassing because I dont want to be associated with the soliders that murdered innocent civilians on Bloody Sunday or any other British solider that set foot in Ireland during their long occupation.

What an odd sort of opinion that is.

IF the above was how you genuinely felt then I'd understand that.......but I'm not so sure thats whats really going here.

You simply strike me as anti-British and that is what you should be embarressed about, there's no need for it in this day and age.

But I'd rather not keep arguing without some-one who thinks I'm ignorant and uneducated so maybe it's best to leave it here.

Morag

No (I'm Irish)

Fratton Fred & slapbangwallop how do you feel about the wearing of the easter lily as a symbol on par with the poppy?

It wasn't me!

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Riddle me this, what % of the Britsh Army's numbers get to go to Sandhurst (a rotten class ridden nepotistic (is that a word?) bigotted instituation itself) and what % are recruited from deprived northern towns and cities?

So, exactly what is your experience of Sandhurst which qualifies you to make judgements like that?

slapbangwallop

Badgermonkey wrote: »

You're paraphrasing Alan Partridge, possibly not the greatest means by which to proffer a cogent argument.

How very dare you, Alan is a legend of rational thought.

Monkey tennis?

Fratton Fred

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Oh another English person coming on here to tell Irish people what they shoud do or think.

Read the thread title "British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?"

Do you know what, we can make our minds up with the three English cheerleaders (Fratton, Audrey and You) telling us what we need to think.

I love the way are trying to portray people that disagree with your viewpoint as having "hatred and anger" or being "begrudging".

Actually no, you are wrong. Like I said, my uncle and grandfather were in the British Army during World War II.

I just think it is incredibly stupid that Irish people would want to pay homage (and fund!) a force that occupied their country for hundreds or years and caused untold misery.

It is an issue that doesnt occupy my every waking day but since the subject has been raised I would ratheruse rational logic than PC propaganda.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/11/07/ex-sas-soldier-blasts-poppy-appeal-as-a-political-tool-91466-27614172/

So an Englishman living in Ireland can't even defend his nations symbol of remembrance, but an Irishman living in England has the right to boss his ex countrymen around?

ejmaztec

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So an Englishman living in Ireland can't even defend his nations symbol of remembrance, but an Irishman living in England has the right to boss his ex countrymen around?

He's only annoyed because Sandhurst head-hunters didn't try to recruit him.