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British poppy: should the Irish commemorate people who fought for the British Empire?

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    #332
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    slapbangwallop wrote: »
    is that what your argument has come down to?

    Would wearing a Poppy commemorate the carpet bombing of Dresden?

    No, because that was a military action. The poppy commemorates the people, now the war.


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    #333
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Hilarious to see how much a simple token of remembrance can send people on here into huge arguments, debates, fits of anger and so on. It appears those of you who insist you want nothing to do with Britain in Ireland are the ones who are also insistent for keeping British issues on the front page of the message board and in everybodies' minds. Go you guys! Obsessed doesn't even begin to describe you.

    The poppy means different things to different people. You should never, ever try and dissuade someone from wearing it as it is a hugely personal issue. You come across as deluded, arrogant and rather brutish. But then, you probably are. Some wear it to remember family from the first war, some from the second, some wear it for relatives in Korea, others for Northern Ireland, some for Iraq and Afghanistan. Some wear it as a symbol of remembrance as a whole.

    What about this notion can you thick bunch of cretins not grasp?

    This is an internet forum, people give different opinions on things, that's how it works. See if you can't except that and wanna abuse people for daring to disagree wth people about things then you're on the wrong forum.


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    #334
    Madam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    No (I'm Irish)
    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Hilarious to see how much a simple token of remembrance can send people on here into huge arguments, debates, fits of anger and so on. It appears those of you who insist you want nothing to do with Britain in Ireland are the ones who are also insistent for keeping British issues on the front page of the message board and in everybodies' minds. Go you guys! Obsessed doesn't even begin to describe you.

    The poppy means different things to different people. You should never, ever try and dissuade someone from wearing it as it is a hugely personal issue. You come across as deluded, arrogant and rather brutish. But then, you probably are. Some wear it to remember family from the first war, some from the second, some wear it for relatives in Korea, others for Northern Ireland, some for Iraq and Afghanistan. Some wear it as a symbol of remembrance as a whole.

    What about this notion can you thick bunch of cretins not grasp?


    You missed one reason out Londonirish90 - RESPECT - no matter whether its a poppie(white or red) or a lily!


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    #335
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    stewie01 wrote: »
    LIAR

    Pants on fire.

    Sorry, I forgot, this is a land of Saints and scholars full of people who were busy attending mass and watching comely maidens when the nasty Brits came along, stole all the spuds and then Fianna Fail and the Catholic Church rescued you.

    No irish people, ever, benefitted from Britain, engaged in imperial wars, slavery etc.


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    #336
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    slapbangwallop wrote: »
    what am I dealing with here? :rolleyes:

    Yes, I have already said that the Lily is loaded, but so is the Poppy!

    The Poppy implies support for the British Army today, it implies a Unionist agenda,it implies Britishness.

    Only in your feeble brain.

    I wear a poppy, I had one on my jacket in Ireland last year. I couldn't give a toss about unionism or republicanism. The poppy doesn't impy anything of the sort. You have unfortunately made a conclusion to support your own views. Anyway, even if it did, who cares? Differing political views arent allowed? Already in here people have strangely posted about how they wear the lily in Scotland as if its a get it right up you to the British government on their own soil of something. Cringeworthy, So few would care. They are allowed differing emotional viewpoints and political standings. It is their right as people in Britain. As it is the right of people in Ireland to want to rejoin the union. You clearly dont, so dont meet up with them. Problem solves. Stop being a bigot.


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    #337
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    No, because that was a military action. The poppy commemorates the people, now the war.

    People who take part in largely imperialist wars are not fir for commemorating, just the same as I wouldn't agree with commemorating the Germans of WWI. It's an endorsement of their war no matter what way you dress it up.

    I find it sad that such a noble fight that was WWII is being bogged down and tarred by the same imperialism they died fighting.


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    #338
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    People who take part in largely imperialist wars are not fir for commemorating, just the same as I wouldn't agree with commemorating the Germans of WWI. It's an endorsement of their war no matter what way you dress it up.

    I find it sad that such a noble fight that was WWII is being bogged down and tarred by the same imperialism they died fighting.

    Dresden was WWII last time I looked.

    As I have said ad nauseam, the majority of those who died in WWI were conscripts, the futility of the war makes their death even more worthy of remembrance.

    And WWI wasn't an imperialist war, it was one fought between empires.


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    #339
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    who the fug wrote: »
    Also a previous poster

    wearing a poppy does not necessarily make you a southern unionist

    I accept that. I know people who do wear it and are not Southern Unionist.

    At the same time there is an element of southern unionism who are trying to use this issue in a disingenous manner, and who are (in my view) more concerned with advancing a pro-union agenda, than they are about genuinely remembering the Irish War dead.


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    #340
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. We know your views. You post them year upon year with bewildering frequency. You don't like the British Military, you like less the poppy, you like less than that the Irish wearing it. Maybe just put it in your sig so we can all understand your position and you dont have to clog up a thread with countless posts repeating the same points to the same opinions of others.

    Aww, bless !


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    #341
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »
    This is an internet forum, people give different opinions on things, that's how it works. See if you can't except that and wanna abuse people for daring to disagree wth people about things then you're on the wrong forum.

    Ironic seeing as you are getting annoyed at Irish people wearing a symbol because you disagree with it. Maybe you don't like the political freedoms offered to you? Maybe I'm on the wrong forum but you are possibly on the wrong continent.


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    #342
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Ironic seeing as you are getting annoyed at Irish people wearing a symbol because you disagree with it. Maybe you don't like the political freedoms offered to you? Maybe I'm on the wrong forum but you are possibly on the wrong continent.

    Maybe ?


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    #343
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Morlar wrote: »
    Maybe ?

    There has been no substance whatsoever in any of your posts in this argument to warrant such oddly smug and condescending posts really. :D You sure think a lot of your own intellect, far more than I think of it anyway. Carry on with your begrudgery and bigotry.


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    #344
    who the fug
    Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Morlar wrote: »
    I accept that. I know people who do wear it and are not Southern Unionist.

    At the same time there is an element of southern unionism who are trying to use this issue in a disingenous manner, and who are (in my view) more concerned with advancing a pro-union agenda, than they are about genuinely remembering the Irish War dead.


    and their doppelgangers may be doing the same on the other side.


    Be nice to have one November with a live let live attitude


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    #345
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Morlar wrote: »
    I accept that. I know people who do wear it and are not Southern Unionist.

    At the same time there is an element of southern unionism who are trying to use this issue in a disingenous manner, and who are (in my view) more concerned with advancing a pro-union agenda, than they are about genuinely remembering the Irish War dead.
    You could say the same thing about Sinn Fein who use the lily and put many Irish people in the Republic off from wearing it. Sinn Fein abusing the lily and the Irish language. Worse than the Poppy abusers.


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    #346
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Jezus, where do they get them :rolleyes:

    Either you live in a parrallel universe, or you are too young to know any better? I live in Dublin & I wear the Poppy every year to commerate my Irish grandad and the fifty thousand other Irish men who died in the Great War & WWII, we also commerate all the other people who died in the two world wars. the Poppy is the perfect symbol to commerate the futility of war, and the reason the poppy is used is because that is what grows on Flanders Fields, where so many good Irish, British, Canadian, American, & German men died . . . . .

    Come the week leading up to the 11th/Nov I will as usual be wearing my poppy on the streets of Dublin as a mark of respect to those who died for our freedom against the tyranny of the enemy, in the Great War & World War II. On the 11th/Nov I will be attending 'St patricks Cathedral Dublin' to mark the Armistice itself which was signed at the 11th hour, on the 11th Day, of the 11th Month (the President usually attends), and on the nearest Sunday to the 11th, my local Parish Church in South Dublin will also hold a service of commeration, poppies will be worn by most of the congregation & the last post played by a lone bugler as the names of the fallen 'from that parish' are read out . . . . . . .

    Every year we get a thread about this, and every year its learning time again (for some) who are either too young to know about the poppy, or who missed some of their history lessons in school.


    LOL...ah yes...resort to patronising that's the spirit old chap....next you will start pointing out spelling errors..:rolleyes:

    I am pretty sure that we all too young to know anything about Poppy Day in that case as 1918 was 93 years ago.

    If you want to wear a Poppy....good for you and enjoy the day. But strange that you mention the futility of war when the UK is still engaged in foreign adventures and sending back dead soldiers from Iraq and Afgan.

    It seems that people have very short memories indeed...or perhaps they are just too young to understand...;)


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    #347
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    There has been no substance whatsoever in any of your posts in this argument to warrant such oddly smug and condescending posts really. :D You sure think a lot of your own intellect, far more than I think of it anyway. Carry on with your begrudgery and bigotry.

    Considering this is representative of the tone of your contributions :
    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. We know your views. You post them year upon year with bewildering frequency. You don't like the British Military, you like less the poppy, you like less than that the Irish wearing it. Maybe just put it in your sig so we can all understand your position and you dont have to clog up a thread with countless posts repeating the same points to the same opinions of others.


    I certainly DO have a higher opinion of my contribution to this discussion (along with that of several others) than I do of yours.


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    #348
    slapbangwallop
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭slapbangwallop


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    Only in your feeble brain.

    I wear a poppy, I had one on my jacket in Ireland last year. I couldn't give a toss about unionism or republicanism. The poppy doesn't impy anything of the sort. You have unfortunately made a conclusion to support your own views. Anyway, even if it did, who cares? Differing political views arent allowed? Already in here people have strangely posted about how they wear the lily in Scotland as if its a get it right up you to the British government on their own soil of something. Cringeworthy, So few would care. They are allowed differing emotional viewpoints and political standings. It is their right as people in Britain. As it is the right of people in Ireland to want to rejoin the union. You clearly dont, so dont meet up with them. Problem solves. Stop being a bigot.

    So I am a dopey bigot because I dont agree with you? :rolleyes:

    You dont live in Ireland so you may not understand that wearing a Poppy implies those things, although I think you do.

    Dont take my "dopey bigotted" word for it. Look what CAIN says about the Poppy.

    "The symbol has long been the preserve of the Unionist community as it is seen as unequivocally British."

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/unionloyal.htm

    If you feel like educating yourself instead of mudslinging maybe you could disgest this article - http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/maybe_it_s_time_for_a_green_poppy_instead_1_2117641


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    #349
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    Morlar wrote: »
    Considering this is representative of the tone of your contributions :




    I certainly DO have a higher opinion of my contribution to this discussion (along with that of several others) than I do of yours.

    And as I already said, just carry on with your bigotry and your obsession. The fact you have such differing views to mine (i won't say wrong, I understand unlike yourself that people should be allowed differing opinions and motives) I cannot take any of your political views seriously and therefore I find your contributions in general absolutely abhorrent. But as I say, we have the freedom to cast our differing views here.


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    #350
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Out of curiosity, who was it that got the Irish people out of Libya when the **** hit the fan?


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    #351
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    slapbangwallop wrote: »
    So I am a dopey bigot because I dont agree with you? :rolleyes:

    You dont live in Ireland so you may not understand that wearing a Poppy implies those things, although I think you do.

    Dont take my "dopey bigotted" word for it. Look what CAIN says about the Poppy.

    "The symbol has long been the preserve of the Unionist community as it is seen as unequivocally British."

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/unionloyal.htm

    If you feel like educating yourself instead of mudslinging maybe you could disgest this article - http://www.derryjournal.com/community/columnists/maybe_it_s_time_for_a_green_poppy_instead_1_2117641

    I couldn't care less what CAIN, whoever the are, say. I'm surprised you do. I care about as much for their views as I do for the views of the scumbag who was taken for a ride by MI5 recently in the Baltic. Are you saying you think and live life on the same level as them then? I am saddened for you.

    I go by the statements given out by the RBL, who promote no sort of Irish unionism in the campaign in any way. They are the ones who distribute the poppy, they are the one who look after servicemen and women who need their support. Not these jokers from cain, who i have no knowledge of.


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    #352
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Its hilarious when one objects to funding the pensions of the killers on Bloody Sunday, one is labelled a bigot and a begrudger by the pro-poppy brigade.


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    #353
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    And as I already said, just carry on with your bigotry and your obsession.

    Yeah, you throw the 'bigot' accusation around to those who disagree with your take on things. Funny how you don't actually back it up with anything though, isn't it ?
    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    The fact you have such differing views to mine (i won't say wrong, I understand unlike yourself that people should be allowed differing opinions and motives)

    I have never said people should not have different views to mine.
    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    I cannot take any of your political views seriously and therefore I find your contributions in general absolutely abhorrent. But as I say, we have the freedom to cast our differing views here.

    Everyone comes across people whose political views are abhorrent to them on a personal level.

    I have seen some in this thread too. I tend to refrain from launching personal attacks against them though, as I'd prefer to at least try and discuss this in a rational, reasoned kind of a manner.

    The gist of your posts here is you'd prefer I post elsewhere. That's not going to happen. So feel free to either address some of the points raised or contribute something a little more useful than slinging accusations of bigotry around the place.


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    #354
    LondonIrish90
    Closed Accounts Posts: 882 ✭✭✭LondonIrish90


    No (I'm British/not Irish)
    gurramok wrote: »
    Its hilarious when one objects to funding the pensions of the killers on Bloody Sunday, one is labelled a bigot and a begrudger by the pro-poppy brigade.

    its also hilarious how someone such as yourself will post in such a forceful manner yet with such a misguided views. Since when were the RBL in charge of pensions for veterans? Your feelings need to be directed towards the Ministry of Defence, who are not formally connected to these charities in any way.


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    #355
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    its also hilarious how someone such as yourself will post in such a forceful manner yet with such a misguided views. Since when were the RBL in charge of pensions for veterans? Your feelings need to be directed towards the Ministry of Defence, who are not formally connected to these charities in any way.

    I have asked this question several times and no reply from the Pro Red Poppy British legion side of this discussion, maybe you can enlighten us ?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75130128&postcount=273
    Morlar wrote: »
    I have asked the question earlier on, maybe the 'Pro- Red Poppy British Legion' side of the discussion can address it ?
    Originally Posted by Morlar View Post
    The British army record in Ireland is one of murder and oppression, why can't the sensitivity of this issue should be acknowledged by those in favour of the Poppy ?

    There is no pressing need for Irish people to wear a red poppy to remember our War Dead, we can do this perfectly well in our own way, so I don't understand the need to try and push this on Irish people. It seems to be more about pushing the British Legion red Poppy than it is about remembering the Irish War Dead.


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    #356
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    I couldn't care less what CAIN, whoever the are, say. I'm surprised you do. I care about as much for their views as I do for the views of the scumbag who was taken for a ride by MI5 recently in the Baltic. Are you saying you think and live life on the same level as them then? I am saddened for you.

    I go by the statements given out by the RBL, who promote no sort of Irish unionism in the campaign in any way. They are the ones who distribute the poppy, they are the one who look after servicemen and women who need their support. Not these jokers from cain, who i have no knowledge of.

    It's my opinion that the British government should support these needy people, but they unfortunately ignore them after dumping them on the scrap-heap. Disabled ex-servicemen and women are treated appallingly by the very people who sent them to far-flung places to get crippled in the first place.


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    #357
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    its also hilarious how someone such as yourself will post in such a forceful manner yet with such a misguided views. Since when were the RBL in charge of pensions for veterans? Your feelings need to be directed towards the Ministry of Defence, who are not formally connected to these charities in any way.

    Pensions as in the welfare of said soldiers, not a direct payment from MoD. So they get no funds from the poppy at all? Where do the funds go to then?

    No need for you to accuse objectors of military symbols and their funding as bigots, that is uncalled for.


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    #358
    slapbangwallop
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭slapbangwallop


    LondonIrish90 wrote: »
    I couldn't care less what CAIN, whoever the are, say. I'm surprised you do. I care about as much for their views as I do for the views of the scumbag who was taken for a ride by MI5 recently in the Baltic. Are you saying you think and live life on the same level as them then? I am saddened for you.

    I go by the statements given out by the RBL, who promote no sort of Irish unionism in the campaign in any way. They are the ones who distribute the poppy, they are the one who look after servicemen and women who need their support. Not these jokers from cain, who i have no knowledge of.

    Agh OK, I gotcha, you consider the ROYAL BRITISH Legion to not have a Unionist/British agenda and couldnt care less about the opinions of the University of Ulster and the Arts & Humanities Research Council back Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland Project (CAIN).

    Logical lad!


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    #359
    SWL
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭SWL


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Jezus, where do they get them :rolleyes:

    Either you live in a parrallel universe, or you are too young to know any better? I live in Dublin & I wear the Poppy every year to commerate my Irish grandad and the fifty thousand other Irish men who died in the Great War & WWII, we also commerate all the other people who died in the two world wars. the Poppy is the perfect symbol to commerate the futility of war, and the reason the poppy is used is because that is what grows on Flanders Fields, where so many good Irish, British, Canadian, American, & German men died . . . . .

    Come the week leading up to the 11th/Nov I will as usual be wearing my poppy on the streets of Dublin as a mark of respect to those who died for our freedom against the tyranny of the enemy, in the Great War & World War II. On the 11th/Nov I will be attending 'St patricks Cathedral Dublin' to mark the Armistice itself which was signed at the 11th hour, on the 11th Day, of the 11th Month (the President usually attends), and on the nearest Sunday to the 11th, my local Parish Church in South Dublin will also hold a service of commeration, poppies will be worn by most of the congregation & the last post played by a lone bugler as the names of the fallen 'from that parish' are read out . . . . . . .

    Every year we get a thread about this, and every year its learning time again (for some) who are either too young to know about the poppy, or who missed some of their history lessons in school.


    Will you also be wearing the Easter lily to commemorate “many good Irish men” who fought in the 1916/civil wars?

    If not why not – the men who fought in those wars were also brave good men – I would hate to think you are wearing the poppy to antagonise or simply because it’s glamorous.


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    #360
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gurramok wrote: »
    Its hilarious when one objects to funding the pensions of the killers on Bloody Sunday, one is labelled a bigot and a begrudger by the pro-poppy brigade.

    Or the veterans of here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/21/mau-mau-torture-kenyans-compensation?INTCMP=SRCH

    here
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/14/mousa.timeline?INTCMP=SRCH

    etc....


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    #361
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭seagull


    Why do so many people insist that the poppy is purely a British symbol? It's used in many countries that were involved in both world wars. Are you opposed to all the Australians, Canadians, South Africans, New Zealanders, Indians, Americans and others who are happy to wear the poppy in memory of their war dead?


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