''Leader's'' Debate - TV3 - 8.00PM

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murpho999 wrote: »

Anyone know how I can contact Vincent Browne show about tonight's debate.

Found Vincent Browne's personal twitter, which had tweets out while debate was on so he mustn't be doing it himself, but can't find twitter or e-mail address for actual show.

Really want to send message about quality of tonight's debate and analysis afterwards.

Text Vincent followed by your comment to 53131.

He gives out the email address at the start of his programme.

Brenireland

murpho999 wrote: »

Anyone know how I can contact Vincent Browne show about tonight's debate.

Found Vincent Browne's personal twitter, which had tweets out while debate was on so he mustn't be doing it himself, but can't find twitter or e-mail address for actual show.

Really want to send message about quality of tonight's debate and analysis afterwards.

Ring the gaurds,because as far as debates go that was crime.

SB-08

Enda has been verbally attacked for not turning up to the debate at his town hall meeting http://yfrog.com/iz731z

caseyann

It was a train wreck.And made me want to smack them in the head.Both incompetent and both saying same things.It sounded like drivel.

Who won that debate he asks.It wasnt a debate.

Brenireland

Michael Martin won that debate hands down I must say do.

Mr.Micro

caseyann wrote: »

It was a train wreck.And made me want to smack them in the head.Both incompetent and both saying same things.It sounded like drivel.

Who won that debate he asks.It wasnt a debate.

I have to agree. It came across like Vincent Browne tonight with him mute for a change. Gilmore was too polite and suffered dry mouth. Martin was condescending and slouching just criticizing without actually dealing with the question.

caseyann

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I have to agree. It came across like Vincent Browne tonight with him mute for a change. Gilmore was too polite and suffered dry mouth. Martin was condescending and slouching just criticizing without actually dealing with the question.

I completely agree, i was thinking i was losing the grasp of English language and listening skills.It was messy.
I would even debate better than that,and that is saying something

SB-08

If you compare to previous leaders it's interesting. I believe had Cowen been there he would have lost - as he would've resorted to shouting and roaring summed up in "I don't accept that" and Gilmore would have been more prepared for that predictible approach and would have walked it. Martin surprised us by attacking and it took Gilmore by surprise.

Had Pat Rabbitte or Ruairi Quinn still be Labour leader they would have walked over Martin. Rabbitte will his aggressive but precise skills, he would have landed all the blows Gillmore missed. Quinn would have just made Martin look very stupid and ridiculed him.

And had FG still had a leader with some balls - like Michael Noonan - none of this nonsense and cowardly behavior would have existed. He would have probably asked for even more debates and would have nailed both Gilmore and Martin to the wall and easily won.

kippy

I have to say I didnt see the "debate" but based on what I am reading here, it appears people think, on the whole that FF came out of it better than they went into it, others think it was rubbish.
This is what I have been seriously worrying about in these debates.
There will only be one clear winner after they are all over. FF and Labour arent gonna go up too much more in the polls, down is the only way they will go while FF are at an all time low and the debates will only work in their favour.
Also, Martin is v. good with media.

Perhaps I will be wrong, I hope so - will try catch the next one.

K_user

I enjoyed it. And I found myself warming to Michael Martin, who I think "won".

I had been considering voting Labour, but now I'm not sure. Gilmore should have had an easy victory on his hands, FF was ripe for a good kicking. Instead he was on the ropes on a few occasions, at a couple of stages he looked speechless. All he really managed to do was get a few good quotes in, things that would appeal to the mass dissatisfaction that exists over FF at the moment.

But I think its clear to say that Enda would have been handed his ar*e had he been there tonight.

COUCH WARRIOR

Someone in Labour get that muppet Gilmore to watch Joe Higgins on VB now. That cabbage plant jibe pure class

Mr.Micro

K_user wrote: »

I enjoyed it. And I found myself warming to Michael Martin, who I think "won".

I had been considering voting Labour, but now I'm not sure. Gilmore should have had an easy victory on his hands, FF was ripe for a good kicking. Instead he was on the ropes on a few occasions, at a couple of stages he looked speechless. All he really managed to do was get a few good quotes in, things that would appeal to the mass dissatisfaction that exists over FF at the moment.

But I think its clear to say that Enda would have been handed his ar*e had he been there tonight.

Whatever Gilmore did or did not say I would love to know what Martin said that was so great ......because I sure as hell saw nothing but slick smooth talk with nothing other than we made right decisions calling into question how Labour was going to pay for their plans......same as Martin/FF....... EU/IMF bailout. What a comedian.

Liam Byrne

K_user wrote: »

But I think its clear to say that Enda would have been handed his ar*e had he been there tonight.

That's a new variation on the usual "Enda would have done the same if he'd been in power" propaganda!

How do you possibly know the above ?

Gilmore was weak
Martin was exposed as a question-ducker and a spoofer
Kenny - we don't know

As it is, Kenny came out best from the "debate"

SB-08

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's a new variation on the usual "Enda would have done the same if he'd been in power" propaganda!

How do you possibly know the above ?

Gilmore was weak
Martin was exposed as a question-ducker and a spoofer
Kenny - we don't know

As it is, Kenny came out best from the "debate"

Ah come on - do you seriously think Enda would have had a chance? FG policies the best, they have the strongest team but he is the weak link. Gilmore and Martin waffled but debated very strongly and woudl have both destroyed Kenny with ease. Had Noonan or Bruton or someone with a strong grasp of issues been there instead - they would have most likely beat both Martin and Gilmore however. But Enda is not in the same league in terms of debating, and competence or efficiant understanding of the economy or his own policies. He is not strong at selling the product. Even though he was very unpopular in 02 - I actually think if Noonan was back as leader FG would get an overall majority, because he oozes competence and has a huge knowledge of issues, especially the most important - the economy. A team of Noonan and Bruton as either leader and Finance SP - would be very tempting for most people. Two very informed people who would instill confidence.

Unless TV3, RTE and whoever else come to an agreement (highly unlikely for advertising reasons) for a joint 3 way leaders debate it won't happen - prob Enda' plan- we will see how Enda peforms. The 5 way is utterly pointless unless it goes on for 2 hours. Otherwise it will just be pure soundbites. The waffle tonight x a million.

K_user

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's a new variation on the usual "Enda would have done the same if he'd been in power" propaganda!

How do you possibly know the above ?

Gilmore was weak
Martin was exposed as a question-ducker and a spoofer
Kenny - we don't know

Because I've watched Enda debate before?

He crumbled against Bertie, his Late Late Show performance was weak and most recently on RTE news all he talked to Dobbo about was "getting a better deal in Europe"...

Enda just doesn't seem to have that "TV factor" that works well in debates like this one.

In saying that, you can be great at the guff and sh*t at your job!

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As it is, Kenny came out best from the "debate"

I don't believe so.

MM came out the best. Labour and FG be warned, FF have only votes to gain at this stage. While they won't get into power again, they might not yet take the serious losses that some are predicting.

K_user

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Whatever Gilmore did or did not say I would love to know what Martin said that was so great ......because I sure as hell saw nothing but slick smooth talk with nothing other than we made right decisions calling into question how Labour was going to pay for their plans......same as Martin/FF....... EU/IMF bailout. What a comedian.

Its not about being great, its about confidence and personality.

There are those that aren't going to vote FF and there are those that aren't going to vote Labour. But its the swing vote that are the target of these debates. Those that don't have strong feelings, those that don't believe the "hype".

FF should have been put on the ropes. God knows Gilmore had the opportunity to kick them while they are down. And tens of thousands across the country would have cheered him. This was Labours chance to really show that they could lead going into the election.

Instead MM seemed to, somehow, turn it on its head - and I'm still wondering how!

Spudmonkey

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Martin of course.

I well know who you were referring to. Your description could equally have been applied to gilmore himself!

nesf

SB-08 wrote: »

If you compare to previous leaders it's interesting. I believe had Cowen been there he would have lost - as he would've resorted to shouting and roaring summed up in "I don't accept that" and Gilmore would have been more prepared for that predictible approach and would have walked it. Martin surprised us by attacking and it took Gilmore by surprise.

Had Pat Rabbitte or Ruairi Quinn still be Labour leader they would have walked over Martin. Rabbitte will his aggressive but precise skills, he would have landed all the blows Gillmore missed. Quinn would have just made Martin look very stupid and ridiculed him.

And had FG still had a leader with some balls - like Michael Noonan - none of this nonsense and cowardly behavior would have existed. He would have probably asked for even more debates and would have nailed both Gilmore and Martin to the wall and easily won.

Oh, definitely, Noonan would have wiped the floor with them and made the debate fascinating to watch. Oh, if only the heave had worked.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kippy

K_user wrote: »

Its not about being great, its about confidence and personality.

There are those that aren't going to vote FF and there are those that aren't going to vote Labour. But its the swing vote that are the target of these debates. Those that don't have strong feelings, those that don't believe the "hype".

FF should have been put on the ropes. God knows Gilmore had the opportunity to kick them while they are down. And tens of thousands across the country would have cheered him. This was Labours chance to really show that they could lead going into the election.

Instead MM seemed to, somehow, turn it on its head - and I'm still wondering how!

These "debates" are not about policies or a parties past history - they are about the skill of the guy doing the talking and his ability to appeal to the audience.
Martin is well ahead of the other leaders in this regard - it doesnt matter about the others policies.
Again these debates are not a good thing for the country.

K_user

kippy wrote: »

These "debates" are not about policies or a parties past history - they are about the skill of the guy doing the talking and his ability to appeal to the audience.
Martin is well ahead of the other leaders in this regard - it doesnt matter about the others policies.
Again these debates are not a good thing for the country.

A politicians job is about appealing to the audience.

A politicians job is about his/her skill in talking.

A politician who can't talk and has no mass appeal would never get elected.

Sponge Bob

Debate is over and now we are back looking at the ugly retarded greaseballs that FF wants to get elected. Martin himself may have done well but at the end of the day neither Fahey nor Crowe is in any way fit to run a country.

bamboozle

i was shocked at how poor Gilmore was considering the amount of ammunition he could have pulled on Martin. Martin is a good performer in the media who specialises in avoiding questions.
to be honest I reckon the real winner was Enda and FG as many floating voters who were considering voting Labour will now swing to FG or independents....now Enda's performances in the 2 debates next week might just swing those votes back labour's way!

Bottom line for me is no matter how smoothly Martin performs, he is FF and him and his party will never receive a vote from me for what they have done to this country.

K_user

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Exactly. Gilmore went into the debate believing that the public was behind him and he had a few tried and tested punches ready to throw. What he didn't expect was MM to go on the attack.

The man was visibly shaken on a couple of points and speechless at least once. The only time he seemed to come alive was when he was making "emotive" points, which sound great, are easy to quote, but aren't long term strategies.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I agree completely.

K_user

bamboozle wrote: »

i was shocked at how poor Gilmore was considering the amount of ammunition he could have pulled on Martin. Martin is a good performer in the media who specialises in avoiding questions.
to be honest I reckon the real winner was Enda and FG as many floating voters who were considering voting Labour will now swing to FG or independents....now Enda's performances in the 2 debates next week might just swing those votes back labour's way!

I don't understand that line of reasoning at all.

FF are at the bottom, the only way is up.

Enda lost his chance to "prove" himself last night. Labour lost its chance to show that it could take the fight by the throat. Together they missed the opportunity to put the last nails in FF. Instead MM came out on top, Gilmore looked a bit wet and Enda was off hiding somewhere in the bushes.

Rubik.

Nick Clegg won the first Leaders Debate hands down in the Uk last year, his party ended up with 5 fewer seats than they had won in the previous election.

kippy

K_user wrote: »

A politicians job is about appealing to the audience.

A politicians job is about his/her skill in talking.

A politician who can't talk and has no mass appeal would never get elected.

This is why the country is in the ****ter.
Lots of politicians around the country dont get the chance to talk to such a big audience and probably wouldnt be too good at it, but they get elected.

We have a lot of talk on guff on every site, too much talking I would say, not enough talking about the big issues.

MaceFace

K_user wrote: »

A politicians job is about appealing to the audience.

A politicians job is about his/her skill in talking.

A politician who can't talk and has no mass appeal would never get elected.

Hey - there have a been a few people really good at appealing to an audience and very skilled in talking - Jim Jones and David Koresh to name two.

Style over substance - thats what most idiots people seem to want.

K_user

MaceFace wrote: »

Style over substance - thats what most idiots people seem to want.

Really?

The two main oppositions to FF are FG and Labour.

Last night MM tore a hole through Labours policies and their "need" to please the people for votes.

FG's leader hid in the bushes and has already made one major gaff over the whole European bail out thing.

Its easy to vote for style when there seems to be no substance available...

Rubik.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

And it just takes one bombshell like Alan Dukes pronouncement yesterday to scupper any momentum FF appear to be making.