Army looking for extra payment

Degsy

aido 1976 wrote: »

AFIAC they should be greatful of their weekly wage and do what the signed up for, The Interest Of The Country.

So your country doesnt interest you?

Did it ever occur to you that there are people who would do this shiit for the "interest of the country"...and for nothing?
I watched dozens of elderly people on my road clearing paths,pushing cars and maintaining moral in difficult situations..for free!

To sign up to the defence forces doesnt neccesarily include duties like shoveling snow,BUT THEY DID IT..on thier own time,cancelling thier family christmas with thier kids etc etc..

I didnt see a lot of Irelands "young professionals" in the Apartment block on my road doing a damn thing,no paths cleared,nothing but selfishness.

Helping people on a military scale brings terrible hardships for the personel involved,thier families,thier social lives and they should be paid for thier overtime...nay,rewarded for thier endevaours..morale is a very much forgotten term these days,as is hard work of any description.

We as a country are in a bad spot,we should be working together.

Local-womanizer

aido 1976 wrote: »

You mean escorting Secuicor and Brinks vans, ???

I am afraid I dont mean that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEMU6_pGiS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENiVfZcvXI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTG9YlZVbY

I see the first video is at the end of 09,but these exercises only took place in Donegal,involving for the majority Donegal units. So imagine this happening with other units in the country.

Look at the DFmagazine youtube page too,lots of great material on there showing extensive training.

And you can also factor in the CIT and prison runs too I suppose..

And its not what the DF is paid to do,yes it may be national interest but why then showed those who are wholly responsible for the smooth running of a country in times like these let off the hook and still paid when they clearly fail. I mean the Army dont train extensively in Snow clearing techniques...

And just to add,only seing your edit,yes they are public servants,they are also human,with social lives and families. They give up a lot to help,and did so without complaining. They seek overtime and they are berated. Disgrace tbh

aido 1976

Degsy wrote: »

So your country doesnt interest you?

Did it ever occur to you that there are people who would do this shiit for the "interest of the country"...and for nothing?
I watched dozens of elderly people on my road clearing paths,pushing cars and maintaining moral in difficult situations..for free!

To sign up to the defence forces doesnt neccesarily include duties like shoveling snow,BUT THEY DID IT..on thier own time,cancelling thier family christmas with thier kids etc etc..

I didnt see a lot of Irelands "young professionals" in the Apartment block on my road doing a damn thing,no paths cleared,nothing but selfishness.

Helping people on a military scale brings terrible hardships for the personel involved,thier families,thier social lives and they should be paid for thier overtime...nay,rewarded for thier endevaours..morale is a very much forgotten term these days,as is hard work of any description.

We as a country are in a bad spot,we should be working together.

Did it not accure to you that these lads in the DF turn up for one thing ??

OVERTIME !!!

And not out of the goodness of their hearts. Where I live we had snow to, and we all helped one and all and nobody asked for any payment,

IT IS CALLED COMMUNITY SPIRIT looking out for each other.

Local-womanizer

aido 1976 wrote: »

Did it not accure to you that these lads in the DF turn up for one thing ??

OVERTIME !!!

And not out of the goodness of their hearts. Where I live we had snow to, and we all helped one and all and nobody asked for any payment,

IT IS CALLED COMMUNITY SPIRIT looking out for each other.

You were not expected to sit around for 12 hours on call away from your family though.....

aido 1976

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I am afraid I dont mean that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEMU6_pGiS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENiVfZcvXI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTG9YlZVbY

I see the first video is at the end of 09,but these exercises only took place in Donegal,involving for the majority Donegal units. So imagine this happening with other units in the country.

Look at the DFmagazine youtube page too,lots of great material on there showing extensive training.

And you can also factor in the CIT and prison runs too I suppose..

And its not what the DF is paid to do,yes it may be national interest but why then showed those who are wholly responsible for the smooth running of a country in times like these let off the hook and still paid when they clearly fail. I mean the Army dont train extensively in Snow clearing techniques...

And just to add,only seing your edit,yes they are public servants,they are also human,with social lives and families. They give up a lot to help,and did so without complaining. They seek overtime and they are berated. Disgrace tbh

Propaganda, Its in the past,

And as fot The Irish DF they are making a joke of themselves

Local-womanizer

aido 1976 wrote: »

Propaganda, Its in the past,

And as fot The Irish DF they are making a joke of themselves

Congrats on totally ruining any credible course of action for yourself in this discussion!

BostonB

Either support to the civil authorities is part of the DF role or it isn't.

The suggestion here seems to be that it isn't. That they did it on their own time. Thus for free and volunteered. Thats contradictory to whats been said previously.

aido 1976

Local-womanizer wrote: »

You were not expected to sit around for 12 hours on call away from your family though.....

No, not away from my family.

But 24 hours waiting on my family to call

aido 1976

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I am afraid I dont mean that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEMU6_pGiS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENiVfZcvXI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTG9YlZVbY

I see the first video is at the end of 09,but these exercises only took place in Donegal,involving for the majority Donegal units. So imagine this happening with other units in the country.

Look at the DFmagazine youtube page too,lots of great material on there showing extensive training.

And you can also factor in the CIT and prison runs too I suppose..

And its not what the DF is paid to do,yes it may be national interest but why then showed those who are wholly responsible for the smooth running of a country in times like these let off the hook and still paid when they clearly fail. I mean the Army dont train extensively in Snow clearing techniques...

And just to add,only seing your edit,yes they are public servants,they are also human,with social lives and families. They give up a lot to help,and did so without complaining. They seek overtime and they are berated. Disgrace tbh

And one other thing, all of your videos are Training / Excercises ?? No Reality in that

Local-womanizer

aido 1976 wrote: »

And one other thing, all of your videos are Training / Excercises ?? No Reality in that

Yup your right,good stuff. Its mad to think any military force needs to train. Sure I mean you can just sign up with the British army and they hand you a rifle and send you to Afghanistan the next day with good wishes and a pat on the arse!

Seriously,you said all they do is sit around,clearly judging by the above videos you have been proved totally wrong.

BostonB

Why do ye keep bringing up overtime, and being away from home, when the money in question is not for that at all?

_sparkie_

aido 1976 wrote: »

You mean escorting Secuicor and Brinks vans, ???

They are all public servents at the end of the day, and I agree the Army where most possibly sorting the failed councils problems, but I can not see the justification of the Defence forces geting extra pay / allowences or funding.
It is in the national interest, and that is what the Defence Forces are here to carry out.

you dont see why they should get paid for working overtime? what is wrong with you? if you work more then your agreed hours in a week then you are working overtime and deserve to get paid for it, it doesnt matter if you are a public servant or not.

you are right, it is in the national interest that nurses and doctors get to the hospitals over christmas but does that mean that members of the defence forces should spend christmas working without getting paid? i dont think so.
its not like every member of the defence forces is handed a big check at the start of the year and then told they are on call for the next 12 months which is what you seem to think happens.

BostonB

Overtime is blocked in many areas of the public/private sector.

This isn't overtime, its an allowance. Which is paid in addition to the regular wage. Its not like they get nothing like your suggesting.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Its rare I reply to people living under bridges, however for you I'll make an exception - this once.

aido 1976 wrote: »

Propaganda, Its in the past,

And as fot The Irish DF they are making a joke of themselves

"Its in the past", well Einstein its hard to make video clips like this in the future. However these exercises draw on experiences from the past, to prepare the troops for missions in the future.

As for making a joke of themselves - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ol' skin

senordingdong

If someone did overtime, they should get paid.

It's that simple.
Their career is irrelevant.

Dempo1

I went away from this thread becoming initially depressed and then angered at this ludicrous request for additional payments. God almighty are members of the PDF on a different planet.

Forget about the merits of the entire need for a PDF, it is supposed to be a state agency that is available to the civil government in cases of emergencies. Christ all mighty what else is intended for.

There is easy justification for specialist units or departments such as

Bomb Disposal
Air Corps
Rangers/Emergency response units

But as for the remaining force i am at a loss as to why it exists, inordinate sums are pumped into maintaining a PDF when other countries do fine without, thank you very much. We maintain enormous barracks along with subsidizing health care, training and outrageous over seas missions not to mention public buildings such as the sumptuous HQ at the phoenix park and equipment that will rarely if ever be used (And i don't count training as a justification for spending enormous sums on equipment). It was at least gratifying to see the 4X4's used for something constructive such as getting hospital staff to work.

Christ, is it too much to ask the PDF to chip in in moments of crisis, WTF else were they doing! One has to ask how come so many able body soldiers were suddenly available to be deployed? again, WTF would they have been doing.

My experiences of these so called hard working members during the snow crisis.

• One Private in Newbridge carry a bag of salt on his shoulder, releasing salt amounts that would hardly cover a portion of chips. Indeed a nice old lady had to advise him he was about as useful as a three legged hampster much to the amusement of the Q waiting outside the post office.
• The rest of his troop throwing snowballs at each other
• On the six one news, video footage of privates shoving snow at each other while a smug lieutenant acted as spokes person (no doubt he would not get his manicured hands dirty.

To my mind the only useful contribution the PDF made during the crisis was getting hospital personnel to work.

FFS lads, cope on!

Poccington

Dempo1 wrote: »

I went away from this thread becoming initially depressed and then angered at this ludicrous request for additional payments. God almighty are members of the PDF on a different planet.

Forget about the merits of the entire need for a PDF, it is supposed to be a state agency that is available to the civil government in cases of emergencies. Christ all mighty what else is intended for.

There is easy justification for specialist units or departments such as

Bomb Disposal
Air Corps
Rangers/Emergency response units

But as for the remaining force i am at a loss as to why it exists, inordinate sums are pumped into maintaining a PDF when other countries do fine without, thank you very much. We maintain enormous barracks along with subsidizing health care, training and outrageous over seas missions not to mention public buildings such as the sumptuous HQ at the phoenix park and equipment that will rarely if ever be used (And i don't count training as a justification for spending enormous sums on equipment). It was at least gratifying to see the 4X4's used for something constructive such as getting hospital staff to work.

Christ, is it too much to ask the PDF to chip in in moments of crisis, WTF else were they doing! One has to ask how come so many able body soldiers were suddenly available to be deployed? again, WTF would they have been doing.

My experiences of these so called hard working members during the snow crisis.

• One Private in Newbridge carry a bag of salt on his shoulder, releasing salt amounts that would hardly cover a portion of chips. Indeed a nice old lady had to advise him he was about as useful as a three legged hampster much to the amusement of the Q waiting outside the post office.
• The rest of his troop throwing snowballs at each other
• On the six one news, video footage of privates shoving snow at each other while a smug lieutenant acted as spokes person (no doubt he would not get his manicured hands dirty.

To my mind the only useful contribution the PDF made during the crisis was getting hospital personnel to work.

FFS lads, cope on!

Troops were made available because as requests for aid came from the local authorities, Brigade Ops then tasked Units with carrying out such tasks. All training was knocked on the head to meet the manpower needs as the requests came down the line to individual Units.

As for what we actually did, I've had people from Baltinglass to Aughrim thank us for the work we were doing while the local council workers quite literally went into hiding when we turned up rather than do a bit of work. What did you do?

Can you please explain how it's a ludicrous reuqest? There's an ACA Allowance avaliable to PDF members who have worked on a 24 hour basis in an Aid to the Civil Authority role, this isn't some crazy claim for payment, it's a claim for an allowance that has been in place for a number of years. So lads who worked Christmas Eve, Christmas Day etc. are entitled to nothing purely on the basis that they're a member of the DF?

Pull the other one.

davetherave

Poccington wrote: »

Troops were made available because as requests for aid came from the local authorities, Brigade Ops then tasked Units with carrying out such tasks. All training was knocked on the head to meet the manpower needs as the requests came down the line to individual Units.

As for what we actually did, I've had people from Baltinglass to Aughrim thank us for the work we were doing while the local council workers quite literally went into hiding when we turned up rather than do a bit of work. What did you do?

Can you please explain how it's a ludicrous reuqest? There's an ACA Allowance avaliable to PDF members who have worked on a 24 hour basis in an Aid to the Civil Authority role, this isn't some crazy claim for payment, it's a claim for an allowance that has been in place for a number of years. So lads who worked Christmas Eve, Christmas Day etc. are entitled to nothing purely on the basis that they're a member of the DF?

Pull the other one.

I would't bother Pocco. There are clearly some stupid people on here who can't understand what has been spelt out to them several times. It is not overtime, a christmas bonus or a payment for being away from family at christmas. It's an allowance for doing a specific duty outside of standard hours which has been requested by the council.
But like I said, stupid DF bashers can't see the logic behind it.

Dempo1

Poccington wrote: »

Troops were made available because as requests for aid came from the local authorities, Brigade Ops then tasked Units with carrying out such tasks. All training was knocked on the head to meet the manpower needs as the requests came down the line to individual Units.

As for what we actually did, I've had people from Baltinglass to Aughrim thank us for the work we were doing while the local council workers quite literally went into hiding when we turned up rather than do a bit of work. What did you do?

Can you please explain how it's a ludicrous reuqest? There's an ACA Allowance avaliable to PDF members who have worked on a 24 hour basis in an Aid to the Civil Authority role, this isn't some crazy claim for payment, it's a claim for an allowance that has been in place for a number of years. So lads who worked Christmas Eve, Christmas Day etc. are entitled to nothing purely on the basis that they're a member of the DF?

Pull the other one.

Pulling seemed to be the main activity of PDF i witnessed during the crisis, now they at Taking the Piss.

Training was put on Hold? God help us all, are we anticipating an invasion from North Korea. Christ all mighty WTF are we paying for training?

So now the Council Staff are being criticized?

Allowances in Place, Jesus does not the PDF have enough allowances already. The request is ludicrous, its a chosen profession with clear mandates set out and i doubt very much that apart from the crisis the PDF are tasked with much to do.

As or what i did, Worked the entire Christmas, 14 hour shifts (yes 14), also assisted with a homeless charity and guess what! Happy to have a Job albeit would appreciate a fraction of the PDF allowances and i might add Job security.

Poccington

Dempo1 wrote: »

Pulling seemed to be the main activity of PDF i witnessed during the crisis, now they at Taking the Piss.

Training was put on Hold? God help us all, are we anticipating an invasion from North Korea. Christ all mighty WTF are we paying for training?

So now the Council Staff are being criticized?

Allowances in Place, Jesus does not the PDF have enough allowances already. The request is ludicrous, its a chosen profession with clear mandates set out and i doubt very much that apart from the crisis the PDF are tasked with much to do.

As or what i did, Worked the entire Christmas, 14 hour shifts (yes 14), also assisted with a homeless charity and guess what! Happy to have a Job albeit would appreciate a fraction of the PDF allowances and i might add Job security.

Yes, isn't it crazy? A professional Army has to actually train! I dunno what they'll think of next, might even give us real bullets or something!

Enough allowances in place already? No, I can only think of two that I get. The request is far from ludicrous, it's an allowance for ACA duties which went on for a duration of 24 hours. I honestly don't know what else to tell you, apart from the fact that lads who were working on a 24 hour basis are entitled to it.

Why wouldn't the council staff be criticised? Wouldn't you agree that they're obviously not up to the task if, due to all the requests from the local authorities, over 3000 troops and 900 DF vehicles were used during the cold snap?

Dempo1

davetherave wrote: »

I would't bother Pocco. There are clearly some stupid people on here who can't understand what has been spelt out to them several times. It is not overtime, a christmas bonus or a payment for being away from family at christmas. It's an allowance for doing a specific duty outside of standard hours which has been requested by the council.
But like I said, stupid DF bashers can't see the logic behind it.

So by your reckoning the majority of contributors to this thread are stupid, perhaps its the fact people are finally questioning not only the absurd request for additional payments but the entire logic behind a PDF that is more upsetting.

Standard Hours? i doubt there is a PDF or ARMY in the world would have the Luxury of Standard hours, try working in a Hosptial, Catering, Retail infact most professions that deal in the real world!

Dempo1

Why wouldn't the council staff be criticised? Wouldn't you agree that they're obviously not up to the task if, due to all the requests from the local authorities, over 3000 troops and 900 DF vehicles were used during the cold snap?[/QUOTE]

HMMMMM! theres a thought, deploy already limited resources to councils where appropriate use could be found for all these DF vehicles, far more constructive than swaning around the curragh or up and down the M7, perhaps those "Suddenly available PDF Personel", 3,000 you say could be transferred full time to the councils, not a bad idea!

Poccington

Dempo1 wrote: »

So by your reckoning the majority of contributors to this thread are stupid, perhaps its the fact people are finally questioning not only the absurd request for additional payments but the entire logic behind a PDF that is more upsetting.

Standard Hours? i doubt there is a PDF or ARMY in the world would have the Luxury of Standard hours, try working in a Hosptial, Catering, Retail infact most professions that deal in the real world!

As for standard duty hours, I think you'll find most modern armies have standard duty hours. Do you think other Armies just work 24/7? So yes, quite a few Armies including the US, Aussies, Brits, Kiwi's have standard duty hours. The joys of being in an Army is that you're not always finished work when you should be, however if you work a 24 hour shift, you're usually on duty.

The exception of course being Exercises, range practices etc. which you get nothing for. Unlike the Aussie's who pay their troops for everyday they're out on the ground. So shall we adopt that practice, since you think other armies are doing it right? I wouldn't mind some extra money while I'm living in a hole in the ground.

Poccington

Dempo1 wrote: »

HMMMMM! theres a thought, deploy already limited resources to councils where appropriate use could be found for all these DF vehicles, far more constructive than swaning around the curragh or up and down the M7, perhaps those "Suddenly available PDF Personel", 3,000 you say could be transferred full time to the councils, not a bad idea!

Or the councils could just do there jobs.


Just a thought.

CtrlSource

I haven't read more than a few pages of this thread yet, but it strikes me that this is a bit of a media punt to see what kind of reaction is out there to Defence Forces claims for overtime / unsociable work payments.

To me, the Defence Forces - all of them - represent excellent value for money and are a group of people for which I have a lot of respect. I felt very proud to be Irish when following updates on their work during the recent Big Freezes (via twitter.com/defenceforces)

At the end of the day however, they are paid forces. It is their livelihoods we're discussing here. Like the rest of us, members have bills to pay, presents to buy, financial committments etc. Being stationed in barracks 'on call' in the run up to Christmas may have meant that some did not get their full annual leave entitlements, did not have the opportunity to prepare for Christmas (or whatever festival they had planned).

That some members have decided to claim recompense does not bother me at all. I'm not saying that everyone who claims 'decency' payments (an unfortunate term to use) should get them.

I don't believe there should be a sense of entitlement on members' parts to receive more money for doing what should be part of their normal duties (helping out in times of emergency). But, on a case-by-case, or category-by category basis, these claims should be addressed by the appropriate Department and I wouldn't have a problem with payments being made to those deemed deserving of them.

NoQuarter

aido 1976 wrote: »

Did it not accure to you that these lads in the DF turn up for one thing ??

OVERTIME !!!

And not out of the goodness of their hearts. Where I live we had snow to, and we all helped one and all and nobody asked for any payment,

IT IS CALLED COMMUNITY SPIRIT looking out for each other.

Nobody wants overtime on xmas day, cop on! They showed up because they are in the army and had no choice, the fact is that their time off and xmas' were cancelled so they could go take over for the council, therefore they were an aid to the civil authority and should get the allowance thats in place for that.

And dont you think that where the army personel lived had snow too and they more than likely dug out their own houses and streets along with everyone else in the country?? yeah it is called COMMUNITY SPIRIT, and im sure most of them have it, that doesnt mean they should have to leave their families and wait in barracks on call on xmas day incase some old bitty wants her driveway cleared for free!!

Open your eyes man.

Mindless DF bashing is mindless.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Poccington wrote: »

Just a thought.

Here's another thought before you spend another moment debating with this chap..

Browse his posts, it'll put YEARS on you. He's anti EVERYTHING, he's got an opinion on everything from room heaters, to golf clubs, to credit cards, recruting agencies, restaurants/hotels/pubs, committee's, politics - the list is pretty long and by christ is it makes depressing reading..

Seriously your wasting your time, he can't be swayed on anything once he's formed (and posted) and opinion on it.

I'm all for lively debate and discussion but whats the point when someone is so entrenched in their hatred of everything & everyone. Seriously I just wouldn't bother.

Yllut

I must have misunderstood the purpose of the army, I always thought they were there to defend the population in case of emergency.
I think the last month has been an emergency. There were thousands of ordinary people with tractors trucks and 4/4 helping out getting to people that were stranded. Hospital workers sleeping in hospital's so they were ready for duty the next day. Now we have these protected species looking for extra money for shoveling a bit of snow and getting home every evening to their warm beds. If your not prepared to wear the boots give them back.
Cop on Ireland.:mad::mad:

Dravokivich

Dempo1 wrote: »

Standard Hours? i doubt there is a PDF or ARMY in the world would have the Luxury of Standard hours, try working in a Hosptial, Catering, Retail infact most professions that deal in the real world!

This is in regards to each individual within the DF, not the DF as a whole unit.

What you are thinking of is alternating shifts with a change of workers to continue production or what not...

From my understanding of what the DF were expected to do, each individual has done a shift that far exceeds standard hours be it active or waiting on call ready to be dispatched. This uses their time (on a per individual level), especially as mentioned several times before on work they shouldn't have to be doing.

Poccington

Yllut wrote: »

I must have misunderstood the purpose of the army, I always thought they were there to defend the population in case of emergency.
I think the last month has been an emergency. There were thousands of ordinary people with tractors trucks and 4/4 helping out getting to people that were stranded. Hospital workers sleeping in hospital's so they were ready for duty the next day. Now we have these protected species looking for extra money for shoveling a bit of snow and getting home every evening to their warm beds. If your not prepared to wear the boots give them back.
Cop on Ireland.:mad::mad:

I think you'll find troops didn't get to go home.

Seriously, if you're gonna have a rant at least get the facts right.