Army looking for extra payment

arybvtcw0eolkf

sheesh wrote: »

this is a terribly whiney thread.

No Sh*t Sherlock!.

BostonB wrote: »

Do the DF on a Brinks run?

I'm going to bed.

BostonB

Its a daft suggestion about a bus drivers in the first place.

Its all over the main stream media anyway. Be interesting to see what public opinion will be about it. Hurrah for the Army rising to the occasion, just doing their job, or public sector bashing.

davetherave

TheUsual wrote: »

I worked Christmas last 2 years ago as a bus driver, hard work and cold sometimes. You work overtime you get paid the overtime same as in Summer but there was no hardship pay - it was the exact same as if you were driving in August.

But this isn't a hardship or an overtime pay. It is an Aid to the Civil Authority allowance that is paid to soldiers who were detailed for an Aid to the Civil Authority duty at the request of a County/City council.

Do the DF on a Brinks run?

Yes, and fresh milk and bread are dropped into Mary every morning otherwise she phones Joe Duffy and complains. And a driver is sent out to old man Jones with the morning paper. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

cornbb

I'm kind of on the fence about this... on one hand, I like the idea that the DF are being put to such work rather than sitting around in the barracks. I'd prefer to see our forces doing civic work like this at home rather than participating in Afghanistan like so many other European armies (although I do approve of our participation in certain peacekeeping activities).

On the other hand, perhaps a soldier's duty should be soldiering... does shovelling snow fit in with the job description, or the mandate of the DF?

As for the issue of getting overtime/allowances for these extra duties, it's pretty simple. If they are entitled to such pay by law/contract, they should get it. The questions of whether the public purse can afford it, or whether you dislike the idea of people getting an allowance to be on call/on standby are irrelevant; if public servants are entitled to be paid for the job they were asked to do then they must be paid, simple as.

mikemac

The council are payed to maintain areas. The civil defense can be called up such as this years floods and for volunteers they did a fine job

Yes, the army can be used as an aid to civil power. But it is not their primary job. I hear regularly of pipe bombs in Limerick and elsewhere, I want the Army Bomb disposal unit rested and available for duty, not out sweeping footpaths of ice.

An army engineer or medic or officer or NCO has years of training. If they are sweeping footpaths and the council are not sending staff then something has gone wrong.

I want the Defense forces constantly training, not getting bogged down in what the councils and civil defense fail to do

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Sure they don't actually do any work in this country anyway.
They get sent on peace keeping missions outside the country.

This first time they're actually doing something useful to the country they swore an oath to, and they want money for it ?

Might as well hire mercenaries.

Sweet jesus christ... what a load of crap.

connundrum wrote: »

*A deep breath before replying*

I manage a security company, and for the duration of the cold snap we had our lads out shovelling snow, directing traffic, pushing and jump-starting cars etc.

Further to that, several of our lads gave customers a lift home. Some staff acted as a taxi for other staff who were trapped and couldn't take public transport.

For the duration of the spell, all staff were on call and could be called into work at an hour or two's notice.

All of this for about €10 per hour.

No one asked for more money, no one called in sick unless they really couldn't get to work. Everyone was relatively happy to help out as they all coppped that it was an isolated incident and unless they dug in, the job wouldn't get done.

The army did provide a service above and beyond, but so did everyone else as far as I can see. Common sense needs to prevail.

During normal work hours was it? Where they on call? :rolleyes:

thebaz wrote: »

i think it sums up the greed in ireland today - what compensation would they look for if they were actually called to duty for a war - IMO the Irish army have it handy , well paid in comparison to other forces , many who are required to put there life on the line in combat , much more than our own army
greed greed greed

Do you work for free? PM me your number, I have a heap of work that needs doing. Cheers.

Well paid... yea, good one.

thebaz wrote: »

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

We are a neutral country. Well paid, lol... Hilarious.

benwavner wrote: »

I know, its a shame alright.

We seem to be constantly berated lately, sure I was even abused on the street while shovelling snow, I dont mind because thats part of my job, im a soldier.

I joined incase I was needed to defend my country, its fairly evident that i will never need to (thankfully). In the mean time I will continue soaking up tax payers money and being a burden on society.

My question is:

Where were all the long term able bodied dole recipients? surely they could be out earning their dole, the dole that I as a tax payer am providing?

Contrary to popular belief, you don't "pay the dole" you pay a tax which is used in many different ways. You would be paying that tax regardless...

thebaz

Alan Early Trial wrote: »

Do you work for free? PM me your number, I have a heap of work that needs

Well paid... yea, good one.




We are a neutral country. Well paid, lol... Hilarious.

In comparison to other jobs in the private sector it is well paid when you include job security and the complete package - i guarantee if the army advertised for 300 new recruits at the current rates , it would be completely over subscribed - and finally some people do stuff for free, for the less fortunate during hard time - elderly, sick etc.. so less of the sarcasm and cynicism

tallaght01

Dempo1 wrote: »

I am afraid whomever or whatever organization demanded additional payments has done untold damage to your profession, its quite simply outrageous!

:pac:

thebaz wrote: »

when I considered joining the US army....

:rolleyes:

JonJoeDali

PDFORRA are a joke. They've really let themselves down on this one.

Hootanany

davetherave wrote: »

Hooray, another DF bashing thread. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


It's not "decency" payment. It's an aid to the civil power allowance.
and is paid for duties that are done in support of the authorities other than occasions involving industrial action. Like when the binmen went on strike and the army stepped up, or when the firemen went on strike and again the army stepped in to help.

The allowance is payable for attendance on duty for a period (s) appreciably in excess of normal daily routine/hours of attendance.
The duty must provide direct support to the civil authorities.
The support must have been requested by the civil authorities.




Ahhhaaaaaaa.
*Reads post again*
AHAHAAAAAHAAA

So the sixty five air ambulances , 197 EOD Disposal Team callouts, 178 prisoner escorts so far this year haven't been useful?? What about the lads guarding Portlaoise prison.

I suppose you get paid extra for the above items as well:cool:

JonJoeDali

The reality is that people are queuing up to get in to the DF (why, I don't know). They're overpaid, fat and old. The private sector pays the going rate - if people are queuing up to get in, they'll keep on knocking 10% off the salary until they can attract just a full interview waiting room. You don't need brains to be a soldier, just good training.

I can just imagine the conversation in the mess's up and down the country at the moment.

Odysseus

My one and only post on this thread, if the lads are entitled to it; let them have it. For those who are p!ssed off about this especially in Dublin may I suggest contacting your local councilor and ask why the civil defense in Dublin where not called out, as in previous years. Here we have a few hundred vols. willing and able to give up their own time to help and nobody bothered their hole to ask.

arybvtcw0eolkf

JonJoeDali wrote: »

The reality is that people are queuing up to get in to the DF (why, I don't know). They're overpaid, fat and old. The private sector pays the going rate - if people are queuing up to get in, they'll keep on knocking 10% off the salary until they can attract just a full interview waiting room. You don't need brains to be a soldier, just good training.

I can just imagine the conversation in the mess's up and down the country at the moment.

When we're not playing cards, or polishing our boots & eating cakes - we talk about trolls.

Dempo1

Perkina3 wrote: »

Firstly Dempo and any other ppl who are bitching bout the DF seeking a small allowance for the work that they did over Xmas, I would like to say that yes there are a small minority of chancers within the DF but there are always going to some of them where ever you...

Listen, i never said i questioned the need for a PDF albeit i do wonder the merits of same and the costs involved. I also never said our government pays allowances for over sea's missions albeit we do contribute to the over all UN budget annually. I do however take issue with the whole principal of over sea's missions and whilst we may not bear the full costs of same, i doubt very much its not costing something to the Irish tax payer, i also believe such missions are completely pointless and achieve little and i might add affect Ireland's principal of being neutral.

Anyway the real issue on the thread is the seeking of additional payments by the PDF for additional duties during the snow crisis. I beg to differ but its a reprehensible request and notion and quite simply absurd in my humble opinion!

Gripen

benwavner wrote: »

I have served over 11 years so far in the PDF. This is the only career I ever wanted to do. I previously served 2 years in the FCA when I was still in school.

What are your experiences of Recruit Training, military ethos or military discipline?

I agree that we do have a number of bad apples, especially in the last 5 years when the recruiting drive came in. I have been involved with training many many troops, most of which I am proud to say I have trained. It is very satisfiying to see a raw recruit who doesnt know his butt from his muzzle turn into a well trained adaptable soldier, and even more so when you serve side by side overseas with that soldier. Believe me discipline is well embedded in a soldiers brain.

If you have not served, dont assume you know anything about military
discipline.

We do what we are required to do, wether we like it or not. It doesnt matter what it is. Ignorance is bliss.

Oh believe me I've no bliss and I wouldn't generalise the attitude we're talking about to any generation, some old school lads are excellent others are a waste. New guys can be really enthusiastic others are not, it's a bit annoying when you see the ones that aren't can spread that outlook.

PCPhoto

ok...firstly I got about 4 pages in before I decided to skip to the end and have my say:

This is supposed to be about whether Army personnell who were "on call" should get compensated for being away from their families.

on one hand I agree that they should - but then I think and (I'm open to correction on this) .... but they are getting paid (normal pay) for being "on call" ... why get extra ?

A question for the Army personnell here: Do you receive "extra payment" if during a tour abroad you are away from you families ? ..... if so, then they are entitled to receive payment for being "on call" away from their families while in the country, if not, I dont think you should receive any "extra" payment.

I had to leave my family on christmas day and drive 150miles to cover a job - for which I do not get extra pay (Yes - I'm self employed so thats different to the general PAYE worker, doesnt matter to me if its christmas, easter or some other holiday), I have worked on christmas day in the past.

Personally I think OUR army should not be doing armed escorts of money - unless someone is willing to pay for them - Do the companies like brinks pay for the army? if so, fair enough - no expense to the general tax payer., if not, why not - its their responsibility to transport their customers money - if they need the assistance of the army they should pay for the service of putting their lives at risk.

As for the Armed Escorts of prisoners in Portlaoise - is there really a need for an armed escort - are our criminals really going to attempt an escape,(FOR EXAMPLE) how much money has been wasted bringing John Gilligan to court, why not just get a couple of TV's and cameras and do it by videolink....less of a chance of a prisoner escaping if he is not brought to court with an escort.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Ok here is my last post on the subject, once again repeated.

The troops performed a duty in aid to the civil power.

There is an allowance payable to troops who do perform the above duty.

Bye now.

NoQuarter

PCPhoto to be fair you haven't a notion what your talking about! You really dont know enough to post on the topic.

arybvtcw0eolkf

NoQuarter wrote: »

PCPhoto to be fair you haven't a notion what your talking about! You really dont know enough to post on the topic.

I'd posted a response to him, but deleted it.. Your right, he's clueless.

But then thats how people should be when it comes to operational matters, so I'm content with that.

PCPhoto

Daphne Straight Upstart wrote: »

I'd posted a response to him, but deleted it.. Your right, he's clueless.

But then thats how people should be when it comes to operational matters, so I'm content with that.

as a MOD you should know that a personal attack like that is definately not on.

I have family members and a family friend who currently serve in the defence forces (ARMY) - your opinion of me, my personal life and my knowledge of the inner runnings of the Irish army are offensive and I object to you claiming I'm clueless.

my post was asking a question of army personnel and giving my opinion - which is what Boards.ie is about ... giving your own opinion, whether you agree or disagree.

I posted my opinion - the thread is about if army personnel are right in claiming "extra" payment from the government for being away from their families and being "on call" - I personally believe that if the norm is that they are paid it (for example when they are away out of the country if they get paid "extra" for being away from family - then they should be paid it ...if not then I believe regular pay should suffice)

that is my opinion you are welcome to agree or disagree and post your opinion on why you believe army personnel should get extra pay for being away from family members due to work. (if called upon or not called upon)

arybvtcw0eolkf

PCPhoto wrote: »

as a MOD you should know that a personal attack like that is definately not on.

Seriously, I'm not slagging you. I think its great that your left clueless - its a job well done that civilians, and a lot of army personnel not involved in duties such as escort etc are clueless.

In their nature these matter's are covered in confidentiality and secrecy, I'm not slagging you off.

But there's not a snow balls chance in hell would a member of the defence forces reveal anything about operational matter to you here or anywhere else.

Might sound harsh, I'm sorry. But we're not playing a game of Call of Duty, we do this stuff for real and keeping you and everyone else clueless is essential to get the job done, and done safely.

Hope that makes my position on the matter a little clearer.

danbohan

latenia wrote: »

Em, they do get paid; what they're looking for is a bonus payment just for doing their job. I find it extremely bizarre that soldiers feel that being away from their families isn't part of their job. How about we have the next war in their living rooms? They won't be so fckn grabby then.

I find it extremely bizarre that soldiers feel that being away from their families isn't part of their job

well any army that sues its government for hearing problems from using high explosives is a bizarre army anyway . they are a laughing stock , bit like the country i suppose

gimme5minutes

It's ridiculous. Lets be honest, the army do **** all anyway. They basically do nothing productive apart from the few that go on and aul overseas mission now and again. The vast majority of them are just dossing about here in Ireland 95% of the time. Now that they have actually been given a job to do in Ireland, they want extra pay for it. What a bunch of twats, the celtic tiger mentality is obviously still alive and well in the army. They are lucky the army is even still in existence as it gives extremely little returns for the billions that have been put into it down the years. Any single county wanted to attack us and they would run us over, so our army is an exercise in pointlessness. One of the few good things we get out of it, troops to shovel the snow off the roads, and they have the cheek to demand extra pay for it. Jesus christ, this country would make you sick sometimes.

tommyhaas

danbohan wrote: »

well any army that sues its government for hearing problems from using high explosives is a bizarre army anyway . they are a laughing stock , bit like the country i suppose

Im not disputing that there was obviously a few chancers, but why shouldnt anyone be compensated for the needless loss of one of their senses?

gimme5minutes wrote: »

It's ridiculous. Lets be honest, the army do **** all anyway. They basically do nothing productive apart from the few that go on and aul overseas mission now and again. The vast majority of them are just dossing about here in Ireland 95% of the time.

Thats bullsh!t

BostonB

davetherave wrote: »

...Yes, and fresh milk and bread are dropped into Mary every morning otherwise she phones Joe Duffy and complains. And a driver is sent out to old man Jones with the morning paper. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

But you think its ok (as in no comment) for a bus driver with 50+ people on the bus to do all that. Not to mention that a bus probably couldn't get there anyway. You don't find that ridiculous at all.

syklops

Would they be docked an indecency charge if they had have said no? They're paid well enough and know what a job like theirs is about.

This sums up the ignorance in this thread. Unlike county council workers, if they were ordered on duty and said no the could face court martial and prison.

Get your facts straight before you go spouting bullsh1t on the internet.

Originally Posted by gimme5minutes View Post
It's ridiculous. Lets be honest, the army do **** all anyway. They basically do nothing productive apart from the few that go on and aul overseas mission now and again. The vast majority of them are just dossing about here in Ireland 95% of the time.

The Bomb squad was deployed to limerick to deal with a bomb threat. You want to take that comment back?

Poccington

I'd love to see the Private Sector job where people who are away from their families while working over a 24 hour duration don't get paid overtime.

Members of the DF don't get paid overtime, which is why there's the likes of an ACA allowance. If we're called out on ACA duties, we're entitled to the allowance. It's a simple fact which the DoD is trying to dodge.

The real question that should be asked is what the **** council workers are getting paid for if once there's a bit of snow, the country needs to call out over 3000 troops and 900 DF vehicles to do the job that council workers do.

As for the "Ah sure they do **** all anyway" comments, I wish those folk could've joined me when I was on an Exercise in Cork running around while wearing CBA, Battlevest, Daysack, MOE Kit, Rifle, Ammo etc. which all weighed up to over 60 lbs and see how they got on with "doing **** all".

Then of course to the "overpaid" carry on, well according to the ESRI http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20091102110232/WP321.pdf we earn less than our Private Sector counterparts. :eek:

BostonB

I don't question of the need for a DF at all. I might question how it used overall but thats a subject for another thread.

My only issue , is that its a bit of a PR own goal (by the union) in the light of economic conditions to be asking for a payment. Regardless if it was a previously agreed allowance or not. Ireland is not the country it was even a year ago.

I would think, and I assume I'm not alone that this kinda stuff would be an expected part of their role, something the DF could do backwards in their sleep, and be a great PR. I'd be concerned this would turn into bad PR.

The media have a habit of twisting a story and that becoming a urban legend for the public. Regardless of the facts or the truth.

Poccington

TheUsual wrote: »

I worked Christmas last 2 years ago as a bus driver, hard work and cold sometimes. You work overtime you get paid the overtime same as in Summer but there was no hardship pay - it was the exact same as if you were driving in August.

We don't get paid overtime though, which is where the ACA Allowance comes from.

It's for when there were Standby Platoons based in barracks on a 24 hour basis. Not for lads who went out and did a bit during duty hours.

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

I'd love to see the Private Sector job where people who are away from their families while working over a 24 hour duration don't get paid overtime....

Are you serious?

You see I don't think thats unusual like your suggesting. I've certainly worked in places where I only got my travel, accommodation and food paid for while travelling/working. Lunch wasn't paid for, and neither did I get any extra payment over a regular day. Most of the places I've worked in the private sector didn't pay over time, and now where I am in the public sector overtime hasn't been paid for years.

In my experience. Its been pretty normal to do unpaid overtime in extraordinary situations. TBH, I've had to fight hard not to be dragged into doing on a regular basis in the private sector.