Army looking for extra payment

Yllut

Talking to a friend today who works for the council down here in the sunny south east, told me the bin men were asked back on Tuesday the conditions were they were already paid for their day but would get double time to come back with a days holidays. If you get an extra days holidays is that tax free.
What the fu"k is wrong with this kip of a country. Surely leaving people with their rubbish for an extra day,would be no problem, the money would be better used to repair the leaks. :mad::mad::mad:
Its time to get private company's to do these jobs.

BostonB

HellFireClub wrote: »

...On the other hand, the Garda who gets paid double time on a Sunday to police the All Ireland Football Final, try asking him/her to work those hours for free and see the response you'd get.

The insane amount of Garda overtime justifies nothing...

davetherave

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Hardly only some....

Not to mention those soldiers who sued for PSTD for having been shot at in the Lebannon.

Well I for one am very glad that you have done an extensive amount of research into this claim. :rolleyes:

Taken from the oireachtas debates website.

84. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Defence the number of claims initiated by serving or former members of the Defence Forces in respect of post traumatic stress syndrome arising from service abroad.

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The position is that my Department currently has approximately 38 personal injury claims primarily alleging Post Traumatic Stress Disorder arising from service abroad.

38 out of the ~30000 who were out with UNIFIL isn't to bad. 0.0012667%, obviously 0% would be more ideal but what can you do.

The Agogo

I wonder will the sissies in this army of ours ever grow a pair of balls.

I was out digging for no extra-pay during this spell...so bloody what?

EDIT: In-fact, I seem to remember an army vehicle pulling into the forecourt to buy drinks, and to clear the snow off their windows....AND ONTO THE GROUND I JUST CLEARED!

Christ.

I'm not calling the whole DF a bunch of sissies, but they should 'take care' of these moany Walters...they're giving the DF an even worse reputation.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Agogo wrote: »

I wonder will the sissies in this army of ours ever grow a pair of balls.

I was out digging for no extra-pay during this spell...so bloody what?

You were out digging because you work in a petrol station, your obligied to keep your forecourt clean & safe.

mikemac

The Agogo wrote: »

I wonder will the sissies in this army of ours ever grow a pair of balls.

An army bomb disposal technican has great skills and imo....balls of steel :eek:

An officer, NCO, engineer or medic all have skills and many have done internal courses at taxpayers expense.

Is it realy a good use of resources to have them out sweeping footpaths of ice? When the civil defense wasn't called up and many councils had salt & grit but couldn't or wouldn't pay overtime to council staff to get them out on the roads.
So a council won't pay overtime but you think the defense forces will work without allowances?

Do you thing they sit in the barracks all day playing cards and drinking tax free beer?
No, when they are on duty they do their job and a lot of this is constantly training.


If you The Agogo were willing to let your boss to put you on 24 hour notice over Christmas and all for no payment, then you are a sucker.
The union for the servicemen has taken issue with this, good luck to them

martic

While IMO the question arising from the original post has been answered quite a few times in that they were doing a duty as ATTCP and if that was the case they deserve to get the allowance. I dont know how many times down through the years that I've came across slabbers that quote the old usual "sure why do we need and army??? what do they do??? blah blah blah etc etc and normally they are people that can't hold down a job in any form and spend most of their day being educated by the likes of Jeremy kyle and Gerry Springer. If the job is so easy what has stopped the people that complain from joining the Defence Forces and finding out what they really do?
In recruit training defence force personnel are trained to ignore people giving them abuse on the streets in what ever duty they are deployed and I would urge any member of the defence forces to refrain from replying to anymore silly posts on this thread as I have said the original question has been answered on numerous occasions and you are just feeding their urge to slate such a great and honourable organisation. I would like to end by thanking any of the boards members on here that provided such a good service during the cold spell and hope you get the money you all deserve.

Dempo1

martic wrote: »

While IMO the question arising from the original post has been answered quite a few times in that they were doing a duty as ATTCP and if that was the case they deserve to get the allowance. I dont know how many times down through the years that I've came across slabbers that quote the old usual "sure why do we need and army??? what do they do??? blah blah blah etc etc and normally they are people that can't hold down a job in any form and spend most of their day being educated by the likes of Jeremy kyle and Gerry Springer. If the job is so easy what has stopped the people that complain from joining the Defence Forces and finding out what they really do?
In recruit training defence force personnel are trained to ignore people giving them abuse on the streets in what ever duty they are deployed and I would urge any member of the defence forces to refrain from replying to anymore silly posts on this thread as I have said the original question has been answered on numerous occasions and you are just feeding their urge to slate such a great and honourable organisation. I would like to end by thanking any of the boards members on here that provided such a good service during the cold spell and hope you get the money you all deserve.

Quite and extraordinary statement to make, Remind us all what exactly is the entry level requirement for the PDF, basic inter cert if even that. Its an astonishing claim to make that only those who can't hold down jobs critise the PDF. History tells us that the PDF and indeed armies throughout the world is pretty much the last resort for some members of societies. It is also intriguing on reviewing other Military threads on this forum how defensive some members of the PDF become at the slightest questioning of the merits of having a PDF.

Whatever the arguments about such merits, this thread was meant to deal with the Issue of additional payments and its clear the vast majority of those who commented suggest its a bizarre request, not withstanding additional hardships every sector of society has had to endure over the past two years with more to come in 2011. I am not at all sure what has happened to civil pride, Decency or integrity but no matter what way anyone wants to spin this absurd request, it ultimately equates to absolute Greed and naivety.

martic

What has the entry requirements got to do with anything? and I did say that most off the people that "I" have came across that slate the defence forces meet that criteria.Just out of curiosity do you mind me asking me what you do for a living and if there was a bit of overtime going in your job would you say to your employer "oh no sure look at the state we are in go on you hold onto it" and just out of curiosity again what did you do in your local community during the cold spell that benefited other people, If you answer these few questions I will continue our conversation.

Improbable

Am I missing something? I thought the ones who actually went out and did the shovelling etc. got their pay and that the ones who were on call but did not go out there and actually do the work are still expecting some sort of "decency pay".

Dempo1

martic wrote: »

What has the entry requirements got to do with anything? and I did say that most off the people that "I" have came across that slate the defense forces meet that criteria.Just out of curiosity do you mind me asking me what you do for a living and if there was a bit of overtime going in your job would you say to your employer "oh no sure look at the state we are in go on you hold onto it" and just out of curiosity again what did you do in your local community during the cold spell that benefited other people, If you answer these few questions I will continue our conversation.

Glad to Oblige

I am in Hotel Management a sector that has been decimated over the past couple of years. I like many i work with have had to make numerous sacrifices, take pay cuts and work longer hours. Indeed i have also had to oversee redundancies and lay offs which was very unpleasant. As for my contribution to society, I am also a Chef and worked for years at the Mansion house Homeless Christmas dinner events and i also do some shift work at charities feeding the homeless. 2011 is going to be a Bleak year and to be honest i am predicting loosing my own Job. In essence i have worked and lived in the real world and appreciate, like many others what sacrifice is all about. Incidental I also know more than most what it is to do shift work and i might add 14 hour shifts. Over time is a Myth to me and my colleagues, we are however appreciative of a weeks wages (when of course it is paid).

One compliment i am Glad to offer the PDF is it's Chef's, some of the best i have worked with!

To date i have worked in 15 countries and traveled to over 50 and to be honest if my age permitted i would be outta here in a heart beat. I also have family and "Thankfully a small mortgage"

Not sure if i meet the critera to be permitted to form an opinion!

martic

While your work for the homeless in the community is most commendable I say fair play for that,Its the part in your answer that mentions "hotels" that got a good laugh out of me, People have a rant at politicians,bankers etc for the greed they showed during the boom years but hotel management and owners should hide their head in shame for the extortionate prices that they were charging in the good times whither it be for a Sunday lunch an over night stay or for a couple planning a marriage and then the hotel federation board have the cheek to come on a lot of local and national radio shows begging people to stay at home for their holidays and be loyal to the people that has ripped them off for so long.The old saying people in glass houses comes to mind after reading your reply and to be honest with you I just think you have a gripe with the defence forces in general and this thread is just a chance for you to vent your dislike for them.

BostonB

feelingstressed wrote: »

An army bomb disposal technican has great skills and imo....balls of steel :eek:

An officer, NCO, engineer or medic all have skills and many have done internal courses at taxpayers expense.

Is it realy a good use of resources to have them out sweeping footpaths of ice? ...

Were the bomb squad, medics, engineers sweeping footpaths of ice. Or are you just making that up.

I think you'd need to do more than sweep to get ice off a footpath...

Dempo1

martic wrote: »

While your work for the homeless in the community is most commendable I say fair play for that,Its the part in your answer that mentions "hotels" that got a good laugh out of me, People have a rant at politicians,bankers etc for the greed they showed during the boom years but hotel management and owners should hide their head in shame for the extortionate prices that they were charging in the good times whither it be for a Sunday lunch an over night stay or for a couple planning a marriage and then the hotel federation board have the cheek to come on a lot of local and national radio shows begging people to stay at home for their holidays and be loyal to the people that has ripped them off for so long.The old saying people in glass houses comes to mind after reading your reply and to be honest with you I just think you have a gripe with the defence forces in general and this thread is just a chance for you to vent your dislike for them.

Now your being particularly silly. I like my colleagues are EMPLOYEE'S, not owners, developers whom i have to agree where Vultures. Clearly you know little about my industry, perhaps you have been cocooned in the easy existence that is the PDF to include Job Security, Short working hours, Free Health care and lets not forget the pension. I won't defend my industry which we do agree has made many many mistakes but i will defend my experiences as an EMPLOYEE who by the way pays taxes that pays for your toys. Clearly based on your response and previous posts, yours and other PDF employee's have faced little inconvenience or exposure to the recession, it is perhaps this poor sense of reality that helps PDF escape the real anger ordinary tax papers feel at why they and I perceive as taking the Piss seeking additional payments for doing a little to help Irish Society during the recent snow crisis.

Now off to work to rip off all those customers who are booked tonight, I am sure your home for the day, resting along side a nice warm open fire! Enjoy and i will endeavor not to anticipate additional payments for working new years eve! God forbid we may have to call on the PDF should there be snow tonight!

Happy new year! Its so easy to wind up the PDF!

martic

At what part of my replies did I state that I am a member of the defence forces and if you read my post you will see I stated hotel management "and" owners. I would like to return your good wishes for 2011 and I hope that you can retain your job this year and if the worst comes to the worst do what I do seeing that I've been cooking since I was 11 years off age do the odd 21st birthday, christening etc its amazing what a cold buffet and 2 hot mains can bring into your household budget and you might even get extra seeing you are HACCP qualified

Dempo1

martic wrote: »

At what part of my replies did I state that I am a member of the defence forces and if you read my post you will see I stated hotel management "and" owners. I would like to return your good wishes for 2011 and I hope that you can retain your job this year and if the worst comes to the worst do what I do seeing that I've been cooking since I was 11 years off age do the odd 21st birthday, christening etc its amazing what a cold buffet and 2 hot mains can bring into your household budget and you might even get extra seeing you are HACCP qualified

Thank you and i will give my regards to 4 PDF members double jobbing at my place of work tonight, 2 chefs/ 2 Bouncers, and of course cash payments! Where did i hear this was frowned upon. Just hope their not hurried away for the call of Duty!;):rolleyes::rolleyes:

Delancey

The demand for additional payment is a perfect illustration of why the Irish Defence Forces are held in such low esteem by the public .

I query if soldiers should be used to clear snow and ice - they might get hit by snowballs and lodge huge compensation claims , the Recruiting Slogan for the army should be '' Join the Army and gouge the Taxpayer ''

average_runner

Wanting extra money for moving ice and snow is a complete joke, its their duty to protect and serve the nation, that means moving snow !

As for wanting money for been on call on xmas day get a life.

I was on called from 25th to 28th this year, got no calls so no extra pay.

Soldiers signed up to protect and serve this nation.

Bosco boy

delancey42 wrote: »

The demand for additional payment is a perfect illustration of why the Irish Defence Forces are held in such low esteem by the public .

I query if soldiers should be used to clear snow and ice - they might get hit by snowballs and lodge huge compensation claims , the Recruiting Slogan for the army should be '' Join the Army and gouge the Taxpayer ''

To say they are held in low esteem is very unfair, many have lost their lives on peacekeeping duties and they are recognised as probally the best internationally in this role. Maybe their rostering should be looked at so that the need to have people on call wouldn't be necessary, maybe the Garda reserve could help clear the snow as well!

Patrick2010

davetherave wrote: »

Well I for one am very glad that you have done an extensive amount of research into this claim. :rolleyes:

Taken from the oireachtas debates website.

84. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Defence the number of claims initiated by serving or former members of the Defence Forces in respect of post traumatic stress syndrome arising from service abroad.

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The position is that my Department currently has approximately 38 personal injury claims primarily alleging Post Traumatic Stress Disorder arising from service abroad.

38 out of the ~30000 who were out with UNIFIL isn't to bad. 0.0012667%, obviously 0% would be more ideal but what can you do.

So when the question was asked 38 claims were outstanding, not that they only ever had 38 claims.

The Agogo

Daphne Straight Upstart wrote: »

You were out digging because you work in a petrol station, your obligied to keep your forecourt clean & safe.

Actually I have no obligation whatsoever to keep it clean and safe.

On a separate note, I wasn't talking about NCO's, Medics or Bomb-Disposers...I was thinking more along the lines of infantry privates.


In hindsight, I shouldn't really think this to be the army's fault. Like a lot of other posters stated already, there are a minority of little gits in every job, who give the majority a bad name.

davetherave

Patrick2010 wrote: »

So when the question was asked 38 claims were outstanding, not that they only ever had 38 claims.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2000/10/24/00027.asp#N3 -
Tuesday, 24 October 2000

116. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Defence the number of cases of post traumatic stress disorder involving serving or former members of the Defence Forces; the consultative process which is in place with the representative associations in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22995/00]

Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): A total of 31 personal injury claims primarily alleging post traumatic stress disorder have been taken against the Minister for Defence by serving or former members of the Defence Forces. In addition, a further ten claims alleging post traumatic stress disorder as an ancillary injury have also been received.

The Defence Forces have for some time operated a stress management and PTSD programme, the purpose of which is to educate personnel in stress recognition and to enable the provision of support so that the consequences of traumatic and stressful situations can be dealt with in an appropriate and timely manner. This programme is implemented through the Defence Forces psychologist, the personnel support service and the chaplaincy service.

With regard to the consultation process which is in place, the position is that both the representative associations, RACO and PDFORRA, are in continuing contact with my Department on this issue under the conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Permanent Defence Force. As is usual I do not wish, therefore, to comment further at this time.

---

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2001/12/04/00004.asp#N3 - Tuesday, 4 December 2001
30. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Defence the number of claims for post-traumatic stress which his Department has received; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30856/01]

Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): The position is that a total of 37 personal injury claims primarily alleging post-traumatic stress disorder have been received in my Department. The Defence Forces have for some time operated a stress management and PTSD programme, the purpose of which is to educate personnel in stress recognition and enable the provision of support in order that the consequences of traumatic and stressful situations can be dealt with in an appropriate and timely manner. This programme is implemented through the Defence Forces psychologist, the personnel support service and the chaplaincy service.

---

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2002/02/13/00041.asp#N3 - Wednesday, 13 February 2002

54. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Defence the number of claims for compensation for post-traumatic stress disorder made by members of the Defence Forces to date; the number received from serving members and former members; the number of such claims which were made in respect of service in the Lebanon; the number of cases settled; the average amount paid in compensation; the number of cases outstanding; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4677/02]

Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith): A total of 35 personal injury claims primarily alleging post traumatic stress disorder have been made by members and former members of the Defence [755] Forces to date of which 21 have been made by former members of the Defence Forces. Of these claims, 24 have been made in respect of service in Lebanon. Four cases were settled, ranging in value from €25,394.76, £20,000, to €190,460.71, £150,000. One case was withdrawn, leaving a total of 30 such cases outstanding.

---

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2009/06/23/00061.asp#N2 - Tuesday, 23 June 2009

84. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Defence the number of claims currently initiated by serving or former members of the Defence Forces in respect of post traumatic stress syndrome arising from service abroad; if an estimate is available of the potential liability in respect of these claims; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24688/09]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): The position is that my Department currently has approximately 38 personal injury claims primarily alleging Post Traumatic Stress Disorder arising from service abroad. 10 of these cases are currently in the process of being discontinued as no formal proceedings have been received.

An estimate of the potential liability of quantum in relation to PTSD claims is difficult to predict. This is due to the fact that each case is judged on its own merits and accordingly, it is not possible to estimate the value of each claim.

Question No. 85 answered with Question No. 46.

---

2000 - 31 total claims
2001 - Increased to 37 total claims
2002 - Decreased to 35 total claims (Maybe withdrawn - speculation?)
2009 - Increased to 38 total claims


Any further question???

BigDuffman

This thread is making my head hurt. Regarding claims. I would like to see the stats regarding people claiming in an organization of the same size and scale.

Not even taking into account the nasty stuff that is witnessed and dealt with over-seas...

Im sure the stats will balance out. People in the workplace claim. From secretaries to soldiers.

How many civil servants have claimed because they hurt their back moving copier paper?

MANUTD99

The demand for additional payment is a perfect illustration of why the Irish Defence Forces are held in such low esteem by the public .

My father did 2 tours of the Leb. Was working the border during the height of the troubles, worked in Portlaoise Prison with Cat A prisoners( which he took death threats from), had to carry out the the poor dead bodies when the Stardust Disco burnt down in Artane. Had to go into Mountjoy when there was riots on, the list goes on and on

Do you hold him and others like him in low esteem??

BostonB

about 80% of this thread has got nothing to do with the ATTCP allowance.

Which is the only issue. The rest is just noise from both sides. Time to unsub.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

delancey42 wrote: »

The demand for additional payment is a perfect illustration of why the Irish Defence Forces are held in such low esteem by the public .

I query if soldiers should be used to clear snow and ice - they might get hit by snowballs and lodge huge compensation claims , the Recruiting Slogan for the army should be '' Join the Army and gouge the Taxpayer ''

PSNI recruitment moderator... You should know better... :rolleyes:

spottybananna

realies wrote: »

Defence Forces ask for discretionary payment for cold snap activities


The Government is today being asked for a discretionary payment for soldiers who have been helping out in the snow.

Members of the Defence Forces have been transporting medical staff to and from their jobs on snowbound roads.

The request for the "decency" payment was made through the Defence Forces representative body, PDForra.

It has been agreed for some personnel, but not all of them who have been on duty.

Are they entitled to more pay or not ?

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/defence-forces-ask-for-discretionary-payment-for-cold-snap-activities-487109.html#ixzz19LMgrQXn

Disregarding all the spurious comments this thread has thrown up and going back to the OP I think that the army personnel in question should be entitled to an extra payment for these duties.

I work in the private sector. I have taken a large pay cut this year and last year. My tax payments are climbing just like everybody else. I am eager to know that I am getting value for money for my tax euros.

In answer to the broader issues which this thread has thrown up I think that the Defense Forces are good value for money over all. I believe I am more qualified than most to make a judgement on this issue as a former soldier myself.

I worked in the private sector before joining up and have worked for a number of firms large and small since I left the DF a few years ago.

As regards the old chestnut of 'compo culture', yes there have been issues in the DF but it is certainly no more prevalent than in Irish society in general. Compo culture is an Irish problem, not an army problem.

That is all.

biko

Alan Early Trial wrote: »

PSNI recruitment moderator... You should know better... :rolleyes:

Just a normal user here.

Can we keep this on a single issue, the payments?
Swipes at DF in general will be met with extreme prejudice (or a slap on the wrist, it's Ireland after all).

Lumen

My impression from following a few similar discussions over the years is that squaddies in general don't really appreciate being asked to do other people's jobs for them, for free. I cannot really muster any righteous indignation about this.

We don't pay them massive amounts of money. Their job involves spending a fair bit of time in uncomfortably hot places populated by angry people with guns, and occasionally getting shot at. I imagine that must be a bit stressful.

Are there not more worthwhile targets for slagging?

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

...Their job involves spending a fair bit of time in uncomfortably hot places populated by angry people with guns, and occasionally getting shot at. I imagine that must be a bit stressful....

Maybe extra payments for Dublin then....