Army looking for extra payment

PCPhoto

I like the way that my questions were clearly ignored !!!

A question for the Army personnell here: Do you receive "extra payment" if during a tour abroad you are away from you families ?

..... if so, then they are entitled to receive payment for being "on call" away from their families while in the country, if not, I dont think you should receive any "extra" payment.

Personally I think OUR army should not be doing armed escorts of money - unless someone is willing to pay for them - Do the companies like brinks pay for the army? if so, fair enough - no expense to the general tax payer., if not, why not - its their responsibility to transport their customers money - if they need the assistance of the army they should pay for the service of putting their lives at risk.

As for the Armed Escorts of prisoners in Portlaoise - is there really a need for an armed escort ?

-
why not just get a couple of TV's and cameras and do it by videolink....less of a chance of a prisoner escaping if he/she is not brought to court with an escort.

In my opinion an armed escort from Portlaoise to Dublin is a waste of army resources and taxpayers money.

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

We don't get paid overtime though, which is where the ACA Allowance comes from.

It's for when there were Standby Platoons based in barracks on a 24 hour basis. Not for lads who went out and did a bit during duty hours.

Just a suggestion. But if you don't want it confused with overtime. Perhaps stop talking about overtime?

Earlier was said this was a allowance for ATCP. being based in barracks is just confusing the issue. As I expect many people kinda expect DF to be based in Barracks when not on leave.

I assume most people would expect ATCP to be part of the DF normal role. Not subject to extra payment. I think thats the core of the issue. I'm open to correction.

Poccington

BostonB wrote: »

Are you serious?

You see I don't think thats unusual like your suggesting. I've certainly worked in places where I only got my travel, accommodation and food paid for while travelling/working. Lunch wasn't paid for, and neither did I get any extra payment over a regular day. Most of the places I've worked in the private sector didn't pay over time, and now where I am in the public sector overtime hasn't been paid for years.

In my experience. Its been pretty normal to do unpaid overtime in extraordinary situations. TBH, I've had to fight hard not to be dragged into doing on a regular basis in the private sector.

Quite serious.

If someone is working from 0830 until 0830 the following morning, that's not unusual?

Poccington

BostonB wrote: »

Just a suggestion. But if you don't want it confused with overtime. Perhaps stop talking about overtime?

Earlier was said this was a allowance for ATCP. being based in barracks is just confusing the issue. As I expect many people kinda expect DF to be based in Barracks when not on leave.

I assume most people would expect ATCP to be part of the DF normal role. Not subject to extra payment. I think thats the core of the issue. I'm open to correction.

No, most troops have Living Out Passes which allows them to live outside of the barracks. While on Standby, troops were made stay in barracks.

The problem with the ACA Allowance is that the DoD is trying to stop it being paid to troops who were kept in barracks on a 24 hour basis, not troops who were conducting ACA duties within normal duty hours.

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

Quite serious.

If someone is working from 0830 until 0830 the following morning, that's not unusual?

That wasn't the question. The question was about overtime.

To answer your new question. It depends on the job. Its probably a short shift for a ER doctor. I think they used to do 24hr shifts.

Poccington

PCPhoto wrote: »

I like the way that my questions were clearly ignored !!!

..... if so, then they are entitled to receive payment for being "on call" away from their families while in the country, if not, I dont think you should receive any "extra" payment.

Personally I think OUR army should not be doing armed escorts of money - unless someone is willing to pay for them - Do the companies like brinks pay for the army? if so, fair enough - no expense to the general tax payer., if not, why not - its their responsibility to transport their customers money - if they need the assistance of the army they should pay for the service of putting their lives at risk.

-
why not just get a couple of TV's and cameras and do it by videolink....less of a chance of a prisoner escaping if he/she is not brought to court with an escort.

In my opinion an armed escort from Portlaoise to Dublin is a waste of army resources and taxpayers money.

Yes, troops recieve an Overseas Allowance.

Yes, the banks cover the costs of CIT.

The last question, I doubt a single member of the DF will answer online.

BostonB

Poccington wrote: »

No, most troops have Living Out Passes which allows them to live outside of the barracks. While on Standby, troops were made stay in barracks.

The problem with the ACA Allowance is that the DoD is trying to stop it being paid to troops who were kept in barracks on a 24 hour basis, not troops who were conducting ACA duties within normal duty hours.

Most people won't be aware of any of that. The problem really is the general public opinion of extra payments to any public sector worker. Regardless of when and where. Thats just my reading of it. I think the general gist of the comments on thread reflect that.

Poccington

BostonB wrote: »

Most people won't be aware of any of that. The problem really is the general public opinion of extra payments to any public sector worker. Regardless of when and where. Thats just my reading of it. I think the general gist of the comments on thread reflect that.

I'd agree with that.

PCPhoto

Poccington wrote: »

Yes, troops recieve an Overseas Allowance.

Yes, the banks cover the costs of CIT.

The last question, I doubt a single member of the DF will answer online.

Thanks

but maybe I should clarify the first question, it was meant to ask... if a member is away from their family (similar to those who are "on call" in a barracks) .... do they receive money for being away from their family - not just money for being on tour and putting their lives in danger a bonus payment for not actually being with family ?

bit of a long winded way of asking - if someone from the army is away from their family on christmas day (be it in a barracks in Ireland or Abroad) ...do they receive extra payment ? not just a "being abroad" payment I mean for christmas or other holidays...best of my knowledge..they don't and if I'm right...this should also mean they are not entitled to any extra money on this occasion - thankfully it is a rare occasion that the army are needed.

I have the utmost respect for Defence Forces and Emergency Services - they have a thankless job, but I dont believe they should get an extra payment which they are reported to be in dispute with the government about.

ScumLord

Does that mean we can take money off them when they're sitting around doing nothing?

I don't see why they should get paid extra, this should be a walk in the park compared to what they're trained to do. Where would they rather be, digging snow or in a war zone getting shot at?

I don't think they should get anything beyond what's normal. If they are normally due overtime for working longer hours then that's one thing but looking to get paid extra to help their country in a time of crisis just seems wrong.

davetherave

BostonB wrote: »

But you think its ok (as in no comment) for a bus driver with 50+ people on the bus to do all that. Not to mention that a bus probably couldn't get there anyway. You don't find that ridiculous at all.

No one has said that a bus driver has dropped medicine in to a elderly person on their bus route.

PCPhoto wrote: »

Thanks
but maybe I should clarify the first question, it was meant to ask... if a member is away from their family (similar to those who are "on call" in a barracks) .... do they receive money for being away from their family - not just money for being on tour and putting their lives in danger a bonus payment for not actually being with family ?
bit of a long winded way of asking - if someone from the army is away from their family on christmas day (be it in a barracks in Ireland or Abroad) ...do they receive extra payment ? not just a "being abroad" payment I mean for christmas or other holidays...best of my knowledge..they don't and if I'm right...this should also mean they are not entitled to any extra money on this occasion - thankfully it is a rare occasion that the army are needed.

If I understand your question, then no, soldiers do not get a payment for being away from their families. . When serving overseas, a soldier receives a peace support allowance (Overseas allowance).

do they receive money for being away from their family

I suppose you could say that indirectly and as you have phrased the question yes, but if you have a young single person then they wouldn't be away from family so no. It is all the one allowance that is given to members who are serving abroad regardless of whether they have a husband/wife and/or kids.

If a person is doing a security duty in a Barracks on Christmas, or any other day for that matter, then they receive the relevant allowance for doing that duty. So on a technicality they do, but again it is a set amount, given to a newly married soldier regardless of whether he/she is missing their child's first Christmas or a single guy who was looking forward to a crate of beer and some cheesy movies.
They get the allowance for doing the duty, not for being away from their family.


The fact that it is at Christmas has nothing to do with it. This is not a bonus for soldiers having to give up their christmas. It is, as has been spelt out several times in this thread, an aid to the civil authority allowance for soldiers who have preformed an duty comprising of providing aid to the civil authority when military aid was requested by a city/county council.

The allowance would still be given if a County Council requested military assistance in March, June, August or November.

BostonB

davetherave wrote: »

No one has said that a bus driver has dropped medicine in to a elderly person on their bus route.....

No one said someone on a brinks run did either. However the question asked was...

NoQuarter wrote: »

Did you stop and drop off medicine to the elderly on your bus routes too??

Its completely impractical even without the weather.

lebanon vet

fair play pal

Steyr

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Sure they don't actually do any work in this country anyway.
They get sent on peace keeping missions outside the country.

This first time they're actually doing something useful to the country they swore an oath to, and they want money for it ?

Might as well hire mercenaries.

Refused a Cadetship were you?

Ali Babba

I dread to think what we'll have to pay them if we ever go to war............

bobblepuzzle

They get paid to perform their duty and act in the national interest... that includes shovelling snow... it saddens me that soldiers in other armies put their lives on the line, and this sorry shower want more money

Steyr

thebaz wrote: »

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

Of all the Services in any Military anywhere its Air Force/ Air Arm Personnel who are joint first with the Navy to not suffer serious injury, the Service that would see the most injuries etc would be the Standing Army on the ground literally fighting not on a Ship in the Bay or in an Aircraft.

You referenced the USAF there, at present in Afghanistan the threat to them is pretty low while a grunt on the Ground is more likely to be shot at.

byhookorbycrook

I am fed up with the pseudo-argument that X branch of public service workers get more that counterparts the UK.If you compare any public or private wages to those in the UK they will ALL be higher.

BostonB

...no one likes a sniper...

Manic Moran

You referenced the USAF there, at present in Afghanistan the threat to them is pretty low while a grunt on the Ground is more likely to be shot at.

The PRT in our area was Air Force. Though supposedly doctors and civil engineers, they still got shot at. Not many USAF engineers get purple hearts, the recipients got a good bit of ribbing for it.

NTM

Degsy

So the government:

Give the banks,what?40 billion each to cover their bad debtsFrom the taxpayers purse

Throw 770 million a year at overseas aid..all borrowed money.


Pay huge amounts in welfare payments to people who've never worked a day in thier lives.


Allow,or almost allow a nationalised bank to pay its staff and additional 40 MILLION a year


And yet they whinge,with support from certain PS-bashing posters on here about paying 100 grand to poor bastards who gave up thier x-mas to dig idiots out of snowdrifts,pushed stalled cars and attempted to make the roads and paths safe?

If the government had said "another 5 euro a week tax" just for these services i would happily have paid it...this is proper way to spend the pittance of taxpayers money that goes to actually help the people,not the bankers.

Fair fcucks to the hard-working personnel who lessened the blow for most people..you deserve every penny.

Dr Bolouswki

I remember seeing the forces on the telly shovelling snow and thinking "jaysus, that'd be horrible if the choice was a warm barracks doing nothing - hope they're getting overtime" then I thought "nah **** them, sure what else would they be doing?"...

So I actually put not wanting to pay them down to bitterness rather than fairness. I know if it was me, and my job was actually protecting the state (from robbers, gaurding prisons or whatever) I'd be pissed off if I had to shovel snow cos the crappy councils had spent all their money on "best pracitce" trips around the world with their husbands/wives in tow.

Give them the money.

aido 1976

They are paid a weekly wage if they do anything or not, FFS it gave them something to do, it's as if the do a lot as it is.

AFIAC they should be greatful of their weekly wage and do what the signed up for, The Interest Of The Country.
And not be pissing about thinking they are little Rambo's in a neutral country when they are really sand bags in the UN's comedy arsenal.

Get over it chaps, you had to do some work, FFS

Poccington

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

They get paid to perform their duty and act in the national interest... that includes shovelling snow... it saddens me that soldiers in other armies put their lives on the line, and this sorry shower want more money

As has been pointed out, the DF aren't looking for payment for every single person who went out shovelling snow.

They quite specifically state that they're trying to make sure the DoD pay the ACA Allowance to troops who were working and in barracks for a 24 hour basis due to ACA duties, such as lads driving HSE workers or as part of Standby Platoons.

BTW, Irish troops have put their lives on the line and in some cases died, in troublespots across the globe.

Degsy

Ali Babba wrote: »

I dread to think what we'll have to pay them if we ever go to war............

You'll pay them anything you had to protect you from the enemy.

And remember this..if "we ever go to war" your college education and neatly-trimmed goatee will avail you naught.

aido 1976

Dr Bolouswki wrote: »

I remember seeing the forces on the telly shovelling snow and thinking "jaysus, that'd be horrible if the choice was a warm barracks doing nothing - hope they're getting overtime" then I thought "nah **** them, sure what else would they be doing?"...

So I actually put not wanting to pay them down to bitterness rather than fairness. I know if it was me, and my job was actually protecting the state (from robbers, gaurding prisons or whatever) I'd be pissed off if I had to shovel snow cos the crappy councils had spent all their money on "best pracitce" trips around the world with their husbands/wives in tow.

Give them the money.

Ballo*

They get what they deserve, a wage if they do anything or not, fannying about in the barracks all day and getting paid for it, FFS what do we need a defence force for ??

OK I am sure some are needed to monitor national security, but what are the other couple of thousand for, -SHOW-

FatRat

realies wrote: »

Defence Forces ask for discretionary payment for cold snap activities


The Government is today being asked for a discretionary payment for soldiers who have been helping out in the snow.

Members of the Defence Forces have been transporting medical staff to and from their jobs on snowbound roads.

The request for the "decency" payment was made through the Defence Forces representative body, PDForra.

It has been agreed for some personnel, but not all of them who have been on duty.

Are they entitled to more pay or not ?

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/defence-forces-ask-for-discretionary-payment-for-cold-snap-activities-487109.html#ixzz19LMgrQXn

Shows how well prepared our country is during situations like these...

What if the country was attacked by terrorists during the freeze? ... Where would the army be only gritting roads, we'd really be Fooked then...

Local-womanizer

aido 1976 wrote: »

They are paid a weekly wage if they do anything or not, FFS it gave them something to do, it's as if the do a lot as it is.

See,that line proves you dont know what the DF do.

As pointed out many a time on this topic,if they are not on leave,they are training or overseas. Of the year gone I have lost count of the amount of exercises carried out by the DF up this end of the country,and thats only the training we see them do.

I would expect any person to be paid some sort of extra allowance for being on stand by to cover for someone else who is failing to do their job,in this case the local councils.

aido 1976

Poccington wrote: »

As has been pointed out, the DF aren't looking for payment for every single person who went out shovelling snow.

They quite specifically state that they're trying to make sure the DoD pay the ACA Allowance to troops who were working and in barracks for a 24 hour basis due to ACA duties, such as lads driving HSE workers or as part of Standby Platoons.

BTW, Irish troops have put their lives on the line and in some cases died, in troublespots across the globe.

They where getting paid anyway when they where on duty, hence they where carrying out their civil duties, that they signed up for.

BTW, yes Irish troops have put their lives on the line and not without loss, sadly. And I take my cap off to all who have taking a brave risk.

aido 1976

Local-womanizer wrote: »

See,that line proves you dont know what the DF do.

As pointed out many a time on this topic,if they are not on leave,they are training or overseas. Of the year gone I have lost count of the amount of exercises carried out by the DF up this end of the country,and thats only the training we see them do.

I would expect any person to be paid some sort of extra allowance for being on stand by to cover for someone else who is failing to do their job,in this case the local councils.

You mean escorting Secuicor and Brinks vans, ???

They are all public servents at the end of the day, and I agree the Army where most possibly sorting the failed councils problems, but I can not see the justification of the Defence forces geting extra pay / allowences or funding.
It is in the national interest, and that is what the Defence Forces are here to carry out.