Army looking for extra payment

Sunnyisland

Defence Forces ask for discretionary payment for cold snap activities


The Government is today being asked for a discretionary payment for soldiers who have been helping out in the snow.

Members of the Defence Forces have been transporting medical staff to and from their jobs on snowbound roads.

The request for the "decency" payment was made through the Defence Forces representative body, PDForra.

It has been agreed for some personnel, but not all of them who have been on duty.

Are they entitled to more pay or not ?

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/ireland/defence-forces-ask-for-discretionary-payment-for-cold-snap-activities-487109.html#ixzz19LMgrQXn

Lando Griffin

They can go on strike for all I care I doubt anyone would notice except the Brinks van drivers.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

No sure why should they get more pay?


Pffft, no one should get more money for working overtime :rolleyes:

Poor Uncle Tom

AIB's bonus's should be diverted to sectors like this who actually deserve it.

My name is URL

At least they weren't using any heavy machinery which could deafen them..

meh.. I don't think they should be entitled to a 'decency' payment, whatever the hell that is. Would they be docked an indecency charge if they had have said no? They're paid well enough and know what a job like theirs is about.

CreepingDeath

Sure they don't actually do any work in this country anyway.
They get sent on peace keeping missions outside the country.

This first time they're actually doing something useful to the country they swore an oath to, and they want money for it ?

Might as well hire mercenaries.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Sure they don't actually do any work in this country anyway.
They get sent on peace keeping missions outside the country.

This first time they're actually doing something useful to the country they swore an oath to, and they want money for it ?

Might as well hire mercenaries.

Ha!

galwayrush

The have to buy their own ear plugs....

Gummy Panda

*looks at intimidating picture of Makikomi*

Yes, they deserve every cent...

Bog

Gummy Panda wrote: »

*looks at intimidating picture of Makikomi*

Yes, they deserve every cent...

*worries about what folders are on Gummy Panda's computer*

ChunkyLover_53

I was out this week driving HSE staff to & from the hospital.

TBH I couldn't give a sh1t if they paid me the allowance or not.

It wouldn't be the first time I wasn't paid for doing a duty.

No one gave a crap then and no one will give a crap now. Life goes on.

Jarren

Soldiers put on standby to help snow-bound householders over Christmas are furious after their demands for extra pay were turned down -- even though they were not called into action.

Thousands of soldiers countrywide came to the rescue of people in distress during the bad weather. The Defence Forces also facilitated medical transfers. All those soldiers were paid for undertaking the duties.

But solders who have been spending up to 12 hours a day 'on call' in barracks claim they should also have been paid for extra duties.

They have requested a discretionary 'decency' payment for the time spent on call -- a request that the Department of Defence is understood to have turned down.

Pdforra, the association representing non-commissioned members of the Permanent Defence Forces, is demanding that soldiers should be paid for time spent away from their families, and says it plans to prioritise the payments issue early next year.

Pdforra general secretary Gerry Rooney blamed new arrangements for the failure to pay the decency payment.

"They are on duty. Even if they are not deployed, they are spending long and antisocial hours away from their homes," he said, "There is anger about it; people have an expectation to spend some time with their families."

The association says it will be taking the matter to an adjudicator with the Defence Forces conciliation and arbitration scheme and hopes to have a hearing in early 2011.

If the case is won, then soldiers will be entitled to back pay for the hours spent on call in barracks.

A spokesman for the Department for Defence said: "All discussions under the defence conciliation and arbitration scheme are confidential to the parties involved, and it would not be appropriate to comment on the merits or any other aspect of any claim under discussion."

However, the discussions did not stop the Defence Forces coming to the rescue of many people over Christmas.

On Christmas day, the Army transported healthcare professionals to medical facilities in Dublin, Cork, the midlands and the west, helping the health services to remain operational.

Patients were also transported to Dublin from Cork and the midlands for treatment, and a meals-on-wheels service was provided to the elderly and housebound at a number of locations. The severe-weather assistance will continue over the Christmas period.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fury-as-soldiers-on-standby-denied-extra-pay-2474873.html


In fairness those soldiers were on call so they should get paid IMO

mikemac

jarecki1976 wrote: »

In fairness those soldiers were on call so they should get paid IMO

+1

If you are being put on call then some payment is due.
Any maybe their union should have sorted out agreed rates before this.

PeterIanStaker

Oh wow another DF bashing thread on Boards, never see them:rolleyes:

Nolanger

Of course they should get paid. Just a shame there was no snow cleared off the paths in Rathmines in the last few days. If only there was a nearby army barracks?

cypharius

Sure, they should get what they want, BUT, in severe circumstances like the snow this year, they should be deployed for civic duties.

latenia

Em, they do get paid; what they're looking for is a bonus payment just for doing their job. I find it extremely bizarre that soldiers feel that being away from their families isn't part of their job. How about we have the next war in their living rooms? They won't be so fckn grabby then.

Yakult

We have an Army? :eek:

connundrum

*A deep breath before replying*

I manage a security company, and for the duration of the cold snap we had our lads out shovelling snow, directing traffic, pushing and jump-starting cars etc.

Further to that, several of our lads gave customers a lift home. Some staff acted as a taxi for other staff who were trapped and couldn't take public transport.

For the duration of the spell, all staff were on call and could be called into work at an hour or two's notice.

All of this for about €10 per hour.

No one asked for more money, no one called in sick unless they really couldn't get to work. Everyone was relatively happy to help out as they all coppped that it was an isolated incident and unless they dug in, the job wouldn't get done.

The army did provide a service above and beyond, but so did everyone else as far as I can see. Common sense needs to prevail.

flutered

in scotland the army, navy and air force helped out, btw they are on less pay than our forces.

Dempo1

Lando Griffin wrote: »

They can go on strike for all I care I doubt anyone would notice except the Brinks van drivers.

Could not agree more, I had to look again when i saw this story being reported. WTF was my initial reaction followed by outrage. Christ all mighty, WTF would army personnel being doing instead of assisting civil authorities clear snow and getting emergency personnel to hospitals, for **** sake, its beggars belief they would have the gall to seek additional payments. Its telling how many were actually available to assist?

I think a job for life, free health care, subsidized housing, short working week and substantial payments for ridiculous over seas mission should suffice thank you very much!

I hope the government tells them to **** off and quite loudly!:mad::mad::mad:

thebaz

i think it sums up the greed in ireland today - what compensation would they look for if they were actually called to duty for a war - IMO the Irish army have it handy , well paid in comparison to other forces , many who are required to put there life on the line in combat , much more than our own army


greed greed greed

Praetorian Saighdiuir

latenia wrote: »

Em, they do get paid; what they're looking for is a bonus payment just for doing their job. I find it extremely bizarre that soldiers feel that being away from their families isn't part of their job. How about we have the next war in their living rooms? They won't be so fckn grabby then.

Where in a soldiers job description does it say that they are to be on standby to do the county/city councils job???

When the council workers would not clear snow, we were sent out. I think its "extremely bizarre" that they STILL GOT PAID for NOT doing their job!!

Soldiers are away from their families a lot more than you may think. We spend a lot of time in different parts of the country for protracted periods of time. We accept this necessity. We accept the fact that overseas service doesnt "directly" do any good in our own country but we still go.This may be worthless to the likes of you, but we also accept that.

Being away from your family is second nature to any soldier, but when it is not necessary, it is irritating.

Im not grabby and neither are my commerades.

thebaz

benwavner wrote: »

Im not grabby and neither are my commerades.

what about all those deafness claims - when i considered joining the army - both here and the states - there was a chance you might actually die - never mind being temporarily away from your family ?

Dempo1

R_H_C_P wrote: »

We have an Army? :eek:

LOL:D Yep, you will find most of them swaning aroud their private golf course at the curragh (and not the one's in white overalls, Baaaa!)

Praetorian Saighdiuir

thebaz wrote: »

what about all those deafness claims - when i considered joining the army - both here and the states - there was a chance you might actually die - never mind being temporarily away from your family ?

I have no problem being away from my family, its part of the job.

What is your point about considering joining the army?

Do you actually know anything about the deafness claims or is it regurgitated drivel?

Dempo1

benwavner wrote: »

Where in a soldiers job description does it say that they are to be on standby to do the county/city councils job???

When the council workers would not clear snow, we were sent out. I think its "extremely bizarre" that they STILL GOT PAID for NOT doing their job!!

Soldiers are away from their families a lot more than you may think. We spend a lot of time in different parts of the country for protracted periods of time. We accept this necessity. We accept the fact that overseas service doesnt "directly" do any good in our own country but we still go.This may be worthless to the likes of you, but we also accept that.

Being away from your family is second nature to any soldier, but when it is not necessary, it is irritating.

I'm not grabby and neither are my commerades.

I don't mean to be fictitious or demean the profession but the carry on i witnessed at the curragh somewhat contradicts the notion of your comrades not being grabby. As for being away from family, surely this is something one would have considered before Joining and there are a lot of other professions that require much more sacrifice and finally overseas missions, are not you and your comrades compensated handsomely or said tour of duties.

I am afraid whomever or whatever organization demanded additional payments has done untold damage to your profession, its quite simply outrageous!

davetherave

Hooray, another DF bashing thread. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

My name is URL wrote: »

At least they weren't using any heavy machinery which could deafen them..

meh.. I don't think they should be entitled to a 'decency' payment, whatever the hell that is. Would they be docked an indecency charge if they had have said no? They're paid well enough and know what a job like theirs is about.

It's not "decency" payment. It's an aid to the civil power allowance.
and is paid for duties that are done in support of the authorities other than occasions involving industrial action. Like when the binmen went on strike and the army stepped up, or when the firemen went on strike and again the army stepped in to help.

The allowance is payable for attendance on duty for a period (s) appreciably in excess of normal daily routine/hours of attendance.
The duty must provide direct support to the civil authorities.
The support must have been requested by the civil authorities.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Sure they don't actually do any work in this country anyway.
They get sent on peace keeping missions outside the country.
This first time they're actually doing something useful to the country they swore an oath to, and they want money for it ?
Might as well hire mercenaries.

Ahhhaaaaaaa.
*Reads post again*
AHAHAAAAAHAAA

So the sixty five air ambulances , 197 EOD Disposal Team callouts, 178 prisoner escorts so far this year haven't been useful?? What about the lads guarding Portlaoise prison.

Riddle101

Personally and this is nothing against them. I don't think they should get extra pay. Not for doing a something like this. In fairness it was more of a duty to the state which the Army serve as well as a civil contingency duty. I mean in that case, we should pay everybody extra for doing their bit with this snow. But still. To me, it's like a garda looking for extra pay, for going on foot patrol in this weather.

thebaz

benwavner wrote: »

Do you actually know anything about the deafness claims or is it regurgitated drivel?

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Dempo1 wrote: »

I don't mean to be fictitious or demean the profession but the carry on i witnessed at the curragh somewhat contradicts the notion of your comrades not being grabby. As for being away from family, surely this is something one would have considered before Joining and there are a lot of other professions that require much more sacrifice and finally overseas missions, are not you and your comrades compensated handsomely or said tour of duties.

I am afraid whomever or whatever organization demanded additional payments has done untold damage to your profession, its quite simply outrageous!

How extensive is your experience in the Curragh and in what context?

Yes being away from the family is accepted and it is not something you think about when you are in your teens.

Yes we get paid for our overseas tours, what is your point? Do you think we should go for free?

How is it outrageous to request an allowance for working outside normal hours? Are you trying to tell me that if you worked outside normal hours that you would not get overtime?

davetherave

thebaz wrote: »

benwavner wrote:

Do you actually know anything about the deafness claims or is it regurgitated drivel?

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

Are you going to answer the question or are you just going to skip around it?

thebaz

davetherave wrote: »

Are you going to answer the question or are you just going to skip around it?

if i joined an armed forced , i would expect personal injury to be part of my job .

joinning the Irish army, not getting involved in a war , and then claiming compensation for a small amount of hearing loss (in some cases) - just sums up the mentality of greed in this state .

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

Riddle101

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

thebaz wrote: »

if i joined an armed forced , i would expect personal injury to be part of my job .

joinning the Irish army, not getting involved in a war , and then claiming compensation for a small amount of hearing loss (in some cases) - just sums up the mentality of greed in this state .

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

Just because the PDF dosen't get involved in wars(Although they do have personel in Afghanistan), dosen't mean they have a risk free job. Maybe you should check this out. It might give you more insight into just what the PDF do.
http://www.military.ie/overseas/ops/asia/isaf/index.htm

They've been in plenty of conflict zones worldwide so I doubt it's not as safe or risk free as you put it.

SEPT 23 1989

This Republic has failed

Praetorian Saighdiuir

thebaz wrote: »

as someone above has said you are better paid than your Scottish counterparts , who actually risk getting involved in a war - when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

What war has the Irish army been fully deployed in ?

it is a relatively risk free job here , well paid and safe

Ok where to start,


Firstly, we are a "DEFENCE FORCE" in a small island with a nominal tax payer. I will keep this short because I doubt you have any interest or rebuttle of any relevance.

We are not a "war going" nation....and if we were, your taxes (if you pay them) would be much higher!

I know nothing about the Scottish army, their pay or their operational commitments.

A minority of the deafness claims i presume were chancers. There were however a huge amount of legitimate claims. I could go more indepth about this but there is no point.

We have not been fully deployed in a conventional war. However, we have been numerously deployed to many many other conflict zones worldwide.

Its not a risk free career and it is only a relatively well paid job in recent years, many soldiers are on FIS.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

thebaz wrote: »

if i joined an armed forced , i would expect personal injury to be part of my job .

joinning the Irish army, not getting involved in a war , and then claiming compensation for a small amount of hearing loss (in some cases) - just sums up the mentality of greed in this state .

We have few soldiers suffering the serious injuries as in in the U.S. Force

You are quickly losing all credibility with me.

Your posts are very simplistic and it is very evident that you do not know what you are talking about.

Dempo1

benwavner wrote: »

How extensive is your experience in the Curragh and in what context?

Yes being away from the family is accepted and it is not something you think about when you are in your teens.

Yes we get paid for our overseas tours, what is your point? Do you think we should go for free?

How is it outrageous to request an allowance for working outside normal hours? Are you trying to tell me that if you worked outside normal hours that you would not get overtime?

Mother of god, working outside normal hours? WTF does this mean, one would have anticipated the Army is much the same as any emergency agency such as the Gardai, Hospitals, Coast Gard etc, what exactly do you mean by Normal Hours, this is a chosen profession and unlike other agencies yours is not required inordinately to do a little extra Graft. I certainly do not recall seeing any army personal clearing snow in the dark but i accept Hospital personnel would have required assistance after dark.

My experience of the Curragh is in a civilian contractual role and i saw enough to determine it is nothing short of a Holiday camp with private golf course to boot. Indeed i actually met privates in catering fields who worked three days a week and had not in fact put on an army issue uniform for over a decade. I also recall listening to whining about the new government pay Levy's and enduring general poor mouth syndrome, incidental a little exercises would not have gone a miss.

Over sea's tours should certainly be rewarded, i was not suggesting it be done or free but it would appear no one in the army wishes to advertise the fact many thousands (tax free) are paid to personnel doing these tours with renumeration rising with rank, these payments on top of salaries.

steddyeddy

ah in fairness lads they work very hard with prison escorts and gaurding prisons border patrols ect. cleaning snow is the councils job and the army stepped in and were happy to do it. I cant beleive some people think that being in the army is easy.

Ruen

Dempo1 wrote: »

Mother of god, working outside normal hours? WTF does this mean, one would have anticipated the Army is much the same as any emergency agency such as the Gardai, Hospitals, Coast Gard etc, what exactly do you mean by Normal Hours, this is a chosen profession and unlike other agencies yours is not required inordinately to do a little extra Graft. I certainly do not recall seeing any army personal clearing snow in the dark but i accept Hospital personnel would have required assistance after dark.

Yes it is much the same and all those professions you mentioned get well paid for duties outside their normal hours.
Normal hours would be the hours you were required to be on duty whether there was some sort of emergency or not.

Dempo1 wrote: »

Indeed i actually met privates in catering fields who worked three days a week and had not in fact put on an army issue uniform for over a decade.

You'll find that soldiers in the Kitchen Corps in any army have to wear the same type of clothing that catering staff wear in civilian jobs in the interest of food hygiene practices.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Dempo1 wrote: »

Mother of god, working outside normal hours? WTF does this mean, one would have anticipated the Army is much the same as any emergency agency such as the Gardai, Hospitals, Coast Gard etc, what exactly do you mean by Normal Hours, this is a chosen profession and unlike other agencies yours is not required inordinately to do a little extra Graft. I certainly do not recall seeing any army personal clearing snow in the dark but i accept Hospital personnel would have required assistance after dark.

My experience of the Curragh is in a civilian contractual role and i saw enough to determine it is nothing short of a Holiday camp with private golf course to boot. Indeed i actually met privates in catering fields who worked three days a week and had not in fact put on an army issue uniform for over a decade. I also recall listening to whining about the new government pay Levy's and enduring general poor mouth syndrome, incidental a little exercises would not have gone a miss.

Over sea's tours should certainly be rewarded, i was not suggesting it be done or free but it would appear no one in the army wishes to advertise the fact many thousands (tax free) are paid to personnel doing these tours with renumeration rising with rank, these payments on top of salaries.

OK,

The troops on standby were doing ATCP (Aid to the civil power). There is an allowance that comes under that umbrella. Are you now trying to tell me that Gardai etc do not get an overtime allowance.

I know nothing of a private golf course. I assume the soldiers you met were cooks/chefs maybe of an older generation? Everyone is entitled to complain about pay cuts nomatter what the occupation. Soldiers do complain a lot, its habit, we all talk sh1te, just like everyone else.

I dont think the overseas pay is tax free, you might want to check your source on that.

Its very easy to look at faults from the outside in. But you still really only have limited experience in the environment.

Manic Moran

Although the ATTCP allowance strikes me as being somewhat bizarre, it seems to me that if such allowance exists in law, and the soldiers were ordered to the barracks in support of a potential ATTCP role, then the ATTCP allowance should be paid.

As for why the allowance exists in the first place, however, that's another question entirely, but obviously the legislature seems to approve.

when I considered joining the US army I did consider the risk of death , not deafness

When I did join the US Army, death actually wasn't a concern as much as my hearing. As a tanker, my hearing is pretty much forfeit, those turbine engines have a reputation for piercing through the hearing protection in both peacetime and wartime.

NTM

CDfm

What duties do our army actually have.

I am not saying we do not need an army as in my lifetime with NI we have needed an army because of paramilitary activity which has not really gone away

The Brinks deliveries must be a hangover from this and the states capability to protect itself when nesscessary

Overseas peacekeeping is part of the international obligations that we have.

Prison duties etc and to provide back up to the gardai in serious situations.

I have a mixed view on this as we seem to have a very bad view of our army as a result of the army deafness claims and that is our public perception.

That said what do soldiers do all day and what are their peacetime activities ? I have no idea. Are they superfit mini rambo's or are they just couch potatoe's that do nothing.

If they are "on call" effectivelly does that mean they are waiting in the barracks and unable to spend time with their families.

So how should they be deployed for "Civil Purposes" - I am sure a defense forces mechanic or engineer would feel put down cleaning up the ice around Rathmines -they might say to you why not get the illegal immigrants to do it - & I would not blame them.

Dealing with a flood and rescuing people would be different -emergency -danger and needs specialist skills.

So I can see the need for an army -but I do not know what it does or what its duties are.

Perkina3

Firstly Dempo and any other ppl who are bitching bout the DF seeking a small allowance for the work that they did over Xmas, I would like to say that yes there are a small minority of chancers within the DF but there are always going to some of them where ever you...

I just want to point out a couple things that you have no clue about.

1) The overseas allowance is not paid by the Irish government. Instead, it is provided by the sponsoring organisation whether it be EUFOR or the UN and does not come from the government.

2) The DF have been deployed to a number of conflict zones including Chad and East timor in the past decade. Both of which were in the peace enforcing role initially.

3) PDFORA represents the Pte and NCO's of the irish army, the majority of which are not paid all that well. Of course the remuneration is based on a scale but I would presume you are also remunerated based on your level of skill. The starting pay for an army private is c.22/23k annually, which is not what I would call well paid. These ppl are then asked to go out and clear ice and snow from the cities streets..... some of these had christmas leave cancelled so that they could be put on standby for 12/24 hours at a time.....

I can only imagine the kind of whinning you guys would have been doing if it had been your leave which had been cancelled and you were asked to work on bank holidays for nothing more....

So please for the sake of everybody else in this forum get off your high horses and stop being so pretentious.

An no I am not a member of the DF and if I hear one more person say that this country does not need an army I am going to......

Manic Moran

Perkina3 wrote: »

An no I am not a member of the DF and if I hear one more person say that this country does not need an army I am going to......

Ahem.

The country doesn't need an army.

*runs for cover*

NTM

Gripen

benwavner wrote: »

Yes being away from the family is accepted and it is not something you think about when you are in your teens.

Yes we get paid for our overseas tours, what is your point? Do you think we should go for free?

How is it outrageous to request an allowance for working outside normal hours? Are you trying to tell me that if you worked outside normal hours that you would not get overtime?

I think the real issue to be concerned about here is that the ethos of serving in the military doesn't carry on far beyond recruit training, it seems to get diluted over the years or maybe it was never inculcated properly in the first place.

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

CDfm wrote: »

What duties do our army actually have.

I am not saying we do not need an army as in my lifetime with NI we have needed an army because of paramilitary activity which has not really gone away

The Brinks deliveries must be a hangover from this and the states capability to protect itself when nesscessary

Overseas peacekeeping is part of the international obligations that we have.

Prison duties etc and to provide back up to the gardai in serious situations.

I have a mixed view on this as we seem to have a very bad view of our army as a result of the army deafness claims and that is our public perception.

That said what do soldiers do all day and what are their peacetime activities ? I have no idea. Are they superfit mini rambo's or are they just couch potatoe's that do nothing.

If they are "on call" effectivelly does that mean they are waiting in the barracks and unable to spend time with their families.

So how should they be deployed for "Civil Purposes" - I am sure a defense forces mechanic or engineer would feel put down cleaning up the ice around Rathmines -they might say to you why not get the illegal immigrants to do it - & I would not blame them.

Dealing with a flood and rescuing people would be different -emergency -danger and needs specialist skills.

So I can see the need for an army -but I do not know what it does or what its duties are.

The DF perform many seen and unseen duties on land, sea and air. The problem is that if you are not a member of the DF then these duties seem trivial and unimportant and obviously for operational security I cannot go into details. I can assure you that they are not.

The duties range from a soldier standing at a gate of a military/government installation to assisting the civil authorities to defending the state against armed aggression. I agree that however unlikely it is that we will ever be invaded, we still have to train for the event.

Our soldiers are highly trained in various weapons and tactics. If we are not on duty or resting off, we are training.

Most Goverment organisations have some sort of bad name for one reason or another. The problem is that the DF is fairly secretive, no one knows what we do behind the barracks gate. People think we are sitting on our arse playing cards and sh1te talking all the time. This is not the case.

The Brinks escorts are warranted in my opinion. The fact that none have ever been "hit up" is a good sign. Unfortunately other non guarded cash delivery trucks have had a lot of hassle in the recent years. Raiders would be wise to think thrice before coming up against us.

Mrmoe

There seems to be two arguments here, one about the value of having the DF and the other is payment for civil assistence. I am generally supportive of the DF and they do a good job but nobody has explained sufficiently why they deserve this extra bonus for doing work that may be required of them? Being away from home and you family is not limited to the DF. There are many professions where people have to spend extended periods away from home. We are not even talking about foreign deployemnt buyt merely being on call in their bases. It makes no sense to me.

Manic Moran

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.

Yes, and no.

I think most soldiers accept the concept that if required, their weekends, nights, and holidays are forfeit. I spent last Christmas several thousand miles from home, and outside of the good-natured grumbling about missing home, nobody really complained. We knew it was part of what we signed on for. Not as if we saw people clamouring for a week's leave to be flown to Europe or the US to spend their holidays. I have NCOs who get three weekends off a month for their entire careers, it's just part of the job.

However, the counter to that is that soldiers jealously guard the weekends, nights and holidays which are not required by the job. If I spent last Christmas eating dry turkey in an Afghan chow hall, there'd better be a pretty damned good reason that I should not be having home-cooked turkey this year. Sitting around the barracks because someone (who probably spent the day at home making the odd call on a mobile) couldn't figure out whether or not they had a job that needed doing is not going to be considered by most soldiers to be a 'pretty damned good reason' and is going to cause griping. Understandably so, I would submit.

I doubt any of the other government services (Gardai, fire etc) would think much different.

NTM

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Gripen wrote: »

I think the real issue to be concerned about here is that the ethos of serving in the military doesn't carry on far beyond recruit training, it seems to get diluted over the years or maybe it was never inculcated properly in the first place.

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.

I have served over 11 years so far in the PDF. This is the only career I ever wanted to do. I previously served 2 years in the FCA when I was still in school.

What are your experiences of Recruit Training, military ethos or military discipline?

I agree that we do have a number of bad apples, especially in the last 5 years when the recruiting drive came in. I have been involved with training many many troops, most of which I am proud to say I have trained. It is very satisfiying to see a raw recruit who doesnt know his butt from his muzzle turn into a well trained adaptable soldier, and even more so when you serve side by side overseas with that soldier. Believe me discipline is well embedded in a soldiers brain.

If you have not served, dont assume you know anything about military discipline.

We do what we are required to do, wether we like it or not. It doesnt matter what it is. Ignorance is bliss.

Perkina3

A little refresher on the Defence Force values and military discipline might put a new perspective on whether the term normal working hours is even compatible with a military lifestyle.


Jus wanted to add to the point manic made on the above... Jus because you are in the army it doesn't mean that a fair amount of the time they will not work normal hours in the barracks. Jus because they are in the military does not mean that they have to work stupid hours ALL their careers....I don't know what planet you are living on if you think the army are away from home the whole time.