Is Emigrating the Only way to Find Work and have a Better life These days?

gonedrinking

mickydoomsux wrote: »

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

We're still stuck here paying single people with no kids €200 a week to sit on their holes because they're too proud to take a job stacking shelves.

hopefully in the budget the dole will be reduced to a more reasonable amount like 150 or so, with the resulting savings being given as grants to entrepreneurs/business start-ups/export companies

El Horseboxo

I was out at that working abroad thing yesterday in the RDS. Hundreds of young people out there applying for visas and looking for info. Emigration seems to be very much on the agenda for a lot of people. I'll be leaving next summer.

Tchaikovsky

I'm off at the start of next year and I can't wait.
It was always on my agenda to travel and work abroad; I wouldn't give those FF kunts the satisfaction of knowing they forced me out.

flash1080

Fair play to FF for forcing people out of the country, there aren't jobs for everyone so people have to go. Let them be a burden to other countries.

charlemont

its always been fianna fail policy to encourage emigration, the more disfranchised people that emigrate means less votes for the opposition...

its backwards this country has gone and those who still vote and contribute to fianna fail will pay a terrible cost before its over... some of us aint going to take this **** anymore...

desertcircus

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

That's a pretty unpleasant way to characterise people who leave the country for their own reasons - you don't know the factors influencing their decisions. And it's grossly unfair to lay the blame for the property boom on returning Irish; the people who bought buy to let were people who had substantial equity built up in their own homes.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Recession tuk dur jurrrrbs :mad:

Happyman42

desertcircus wrote: »

That's a pretty unpleasant way to characterise people who leave the country for their own reasons - you don't know the factors influencing their decisions. And it's grossly unfair to lay the blame for the property boom on returning Irish; the people who bought buy to let were people who had substantial equity built up in their own homes.

We live in unpleasant times, my friend, we will all have to face up. The whinging from aboard that we all have to listen to is hollow imo. If you go for selfish reasons, good luck to you, but don't come back.

Geansai Rua

mickydoomsux wrote: »

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

We're still stuck here paying single people with no kids €200 a week to sit on their holes because they're too proud to take a job stacking shelves.

Yes single people are getting too much.
They did reduce under 24's dole though..

But if(when) they reduce the dole, the families that still have to pay mortgages, school fees, transport,etc. will be the ones who suffer.

My famiy rely on social welfare and trust me there is nothing left over!

Herb Powell

Happyman42 wrote: »

Well they should stay away then....you make your bed and you lie in it. This country could be changed if all those who say F*** It and Leave would get involved in a useful way. I listened to the majority of my Leaving Cert class whinging about what a kip this country was from London and the US for years and then suddenly they were all back to take advantage.....now they are the very ones whinging again. Sometime or other you have to make a stand.

eh, no, you do what you want
You sound incredibly butthurt that you know people who were smart enough to take advantages of economic situations. I'm not going to be fcked over by this crap because I'm young and I still need to see the world. I'm not a "rat" because I want a better life. Idealistic fools sink with their ships

desertcircus

Happyman42 wrote: »

We live in unpleasant times, my friend, we will all have to face up. The whinging from aboard that we all have to listen to is hollow imo. If you go for selfish reasons, good luck to you, but don't come back.

"We live in unpleasant times" isn't an answer. Characterising people as rats for making the frequently wrenching decision to leave their families and friends to try to find work and make their own way in the world isn't justified by simply saying that we live in unpleasant times.

And has it honestly never occurred to you that one of the only things that kept this country going for years was the consequence of emigration? The job market remained far less crowded with applicants than it otherwise would have; social welfare payments were necessary for fewer people; money was sent home from the likes of London and Boston.

Leaving the country isn't a moral failing. Staying isn't a moral triumph. Nobody's special just because they were either safe or too scared to leave. Go find a better scapegoat.

scientific1982

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

Its thanks to people leaving the country in the past and sending money back home that we actually had an ok economy at one stage. Also, when the folks who left in the 1980s came back home, they brought with them skills and knowledge that were very much in demand in the workforce. It was those "rats" that helped create the celtic tiger.

Happyman42

scientific1982 wrote: »

Its thanks to people leaving the country in the past and sending money back home that we actually had an ok economy at one stage.

^^^^ Frank McCourt revisionist nonsense.

You go, you forfeit your franchise. End of.
Stay and change the system then your kids can stay and belong somewhere.

scientific1982

Happyman42 wrote: »

^^^^ Frank McCourt revisionist nonsense.

You go, you forfeit your franchise. End of.
Stay and change the system then your kids can stay and belong somewhere.

Revisionist nonsense your hole. Maybe your family is from an affluent urban area but if you were from the country or a disadvantaged area during those times, that was the only option available. You havent a clue what you're talking about.

doolox

If the govt allowed people on the dole to work say 10-15 hours a week for their dole it might be better than idleness.

Some work could be reserved for unemployed apprentices to allow them to complete their courses successfully, which require an element of work experience.

Some people have qualifications but lack the experience in certain areas to capture a job. For others access to expensive equipment to gain experience is the issue. What I find wrong with the current WPP1 or 2 is the requirement to work 39hrs a week for the dole which is below minimum wage.

It would be more appropriate and attractive to people if these placements were pitched at 15-20 hours.

Happyman42

scientific1982 wrote: »

Revisionist nonsense your hole. Maybe your family is from an affluent urban area but if you were from the country or a disadvantaged area during those times, that was the only option available. You havent a clue what you're talking about.

Some people have to go....but not all. A large percentage are mercenary and selfish and ultimately (whatever way YOU want to look at that) it is a form of treason imo.
Tatty parcels of secondhand clothes and a few gubby dollars is not gonna solve our longterm problems, it is only going to change when enough people want it to change. Slamming the door in a huff is no answer, which is what a lot of the posters on this thread are doing.

Jagle

Happyman42 wrote: »

Some people have to go....but not all. A large percentage are mercenary and selfish and ultimately (whatever way YOU want to look at that) it is a form of treason imo.
Tatty parcels of secondhand clothes and a few gubby dollars is not gonna solve our longterm problems, it is only going to change when enough people want it to change. Slamming the door in a huff is no answer, which is what a lot of the posters on this thread are doing.

im sorry happyman, im young still in college, and when i graduate i will have no job prospects, now i knew this before the economy took a nose dive, and always felt that i would have to leave, this recession and they way our government have handled it have led me to want to leave even more. i love my country i have voted since the day i was able to, i really am an irish man through and through, but i am so sick of the fatcats, the greedy topmen that to be honest id rather move away and happily pay taxes to a government i agree with, there is no changing our government, they were raised in a time when things were different and are very stubborn and pig headed when it comes to forgetting what you were thought and looking at modern life, but i am no way a "rat" for leaving, and if you feel that those who are fed up with the system should just change it, well then you have no idea what it takes to change anything, and know that its impossible to change our situation

My name is URL

OP, when are you planning on leaving? You've been going on about emigration for long enough. Just book your flights already.. There's obviously nothing keeping you here other than your incessant desire to share your dislike of the country

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056031809
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056018786
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055832614
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055832610

Happyman42

Jagle wrote: »

im sorry happyman, im young still in college, and when i graduate i will have no job prospects, now i knew this before the economy took a nose dive, and always felt that i would have to leave, this recession and they way our government have handled it have led me to want to leave even more. i love my country i have voted since the day i was able to, i really am an irish man through and through, but i am so sick of the fatcats, the greedy topmen that to be honest id rather move away and happily pay taxes to a government i agree with, there is no changing our government, they were raised in a time when things were different and are very stubborn and pig headed when it comes to forgetting what you were thought and looking at modern life, but i am no way a "rat" for leaving, and if you feel that those who are fed up with the system should just change it, well then you have no idea what it takes to change anything, and know that its impossible to change our situation

Not a good situation to be in.
Things won't change in this county because the people with the 'power' always cut and run. The people with the 'power' in this instance are those that have been disenfranchised like you. You go, you leave the status quo intact. Simple as.
And the system can be changed, the power of the church in this country was broken because a small minority convinced the majority that the institution was corrupt to the core.

Jagle

ha im sorry happyman but you honestly believe this government can be changed? you then know nothing of the irish attitude of **** it, when our country fell apart we did nothing when the government time and time again increased taxes, added new taxes and continued to take money from our paychecks to pay for the mistakes of others nothing happened, oh how i waited for someone to stand up and do something, i was fully prepaired for rioting in the streets telling them to go f-off but no, we lay down and we took it, and thats why nothing will change you can vote in whatever party you want, but it wont change

desertcircus

Happyman42 wrote: »

Some people have to go....but not all. A large percentage are mercenary and selfish and ultimately (whatever way YOU want to look at that) it is a form of treason imo.
Tatty parcels of secondhand clothes and a few gubby dollars is not gonna solve our longterm problems, it is only going to change when enough people want it to change. Slamming the door in a huff is no answer, which is what a lot of the posters on this thread are doing.

Treason? Are you serious? Leaving your family to try and make a living somewhere else is now comparable to attempting to overthrow the government by violent means or sell Donegal to the UK? Surely treason is only treason if your intent is to destabilise your country; what if you're leaving to further your career? That's not treason - it's ambition. And those "few gubby dollars" don't solve the long-term problems, but they alleviate them, unlike simply staying at home, earning nothing and claiming the dole.

What if you're well-trained in a particular specialised field that offers no jobs in Ireland? Would you prefer that a nuclear physicist go to work in McDonalds for the rest of his life rather than spend thirty years at CERN and then retire to Ireland with a pile of money to be spent in the Irish economy? Should, say, John O'Shea be ordered to either give up his Irish passport or come home and play for Bohs? Your point of view makes no sense - you seem to prefer the idea of more people claiming the dole, less money being sent home and a less happy population, all for the sake of some warped idea of Irishness that you and you alone seem to subscribe to.

Happyman42

desertcircus wrote: »

Treason? Are you serious? Leaving your family to try and make a living somewhere else is now comparable to attempting to overthrow the government by violent means or sell Donegal to the UK? Surely treason is only treason if your intent is to destabilise your country; what if you're leaving to further your career? That's not treason - it's ambition. And those "few gubby dollars" don't solve the long-term problems, but they alleviate them, unlike simply staying at home, earning nothing and claiming the dole.

What if you're well-trained in a particular specialised field that offers no jobs in Ireland? Would you prefer that a nuclear physicist go to work in McDonalds for the rest of his life rather than spend thirty years at CERN and then retire to Ireland with a pile of money to be spent in the Irish economy? Should, say, John O'Shea be ordered to either give up his Irish passport or come home and play for Bohs? Your point of view makes no sense - you seem to prefer the idea of more people claiming the dole, less money being sent home and a less happy population, all for the sake of some warped idea of Irishness that you and you alone seem to subscribe to.

Do try and read what I am actually saying and stop interpreting to suit your own argument.

fontanalis

Hide behind the post wrote: »

Certainly not-- Yes the economy is not conducive to providing everyone with jobs and the rich soil of the celtic tiger is not longer here.

However, Ireland still has many opportunities (Check any recruitment site, agency etc), jobs are still there but competition for same is intense.

Some will leave as their qualifications are best suited abroad or to start afresh and be the better for it no doubt...others will stay and build a career.

Swings and roundabouts sums it up in my opinion.

We will come out of this but it will be a long road and will not be easy!

This country has and will continue to breed enterprising, intelligent, entrepreneurial and talented individuals.

We are punching above our weight in terms of our size, scale and competitive advantage. Amid the turmoil there is light however fleeting it may appear.

I'm Brian Lenihan and I approve this party political broadcast.

Noffles

Lets be honest here, who in their right mind wants to stay and work and fork out in taxes and cut backs for the next 10-15 years if they don't have to? Life is ****ing short enough, why spend a good chunk of it working for **** for other people's **** ups???

desertcircus

I've tried to figure out what your argument is, but I honestly can't see one beyond what I've presented it as. I don't see how emigration is even vaguely comparable to treason, I don't see how it damages Irish society, I don't understand your hatred for people who've emigrated, I don't understand how you can profess to understand the motivations of the majority of people who do emigrate.

The one actual idea you've put forward - that when people leave, change is less likely - isn't borne out by the rotating governments of the 1980s or FF's run since 1997. It also fails to take into account the possibility that returning emigrants change their original home when they come back by bringing a different perspective.

Black Swan

The grass is not greener across the pond.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

The USA is still in the greatest recession since the Great Depression.

"The national unemployment rate in August was 9.5 percent, not seasonally adjusted, compared with 9.6 percent a year earlier."

And these government figures are understated, because when you exhaust your unemployment benefits, you statistically disappear off the roles of unemployed. During non-recessionary times, America normally averages just over 5 percent reported unemployment.

Source: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.nr0.htm

"When will the recession end? recovery start? Part 89 US CEO's predict flat or lackluster growth in next 6 months

The Business Roundtable Index for Q2 2010 was just released. Even though the index increased marginally by 5%, if the look deeper into the Q by Q comparisons, they point to a sluggish, lackluster and practically no growth economy for the next 6 months and it doesn't include the possible negative consequences of the Gulf of Mexico Oil spill."

Source: http://smarteconomy.typepad.com/smart_economy/2010/06/when-will-the-recession-end-recovery-start-part-89-us-ceos-predict-flat-or-lackluster-growth-in-next-5.html

Millions of Americans are expected to lose their homes in record numbers during 2010:

"Their vision of foreclosures in 2010? As many as four million homes will receive a foreclosure notice next year, which would make it the peak of this foreclosure cycle."

Source: http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-money/blog/home-equity/4-million-foreclosures-in-2010-its-a-real-possibility/1390/

Happyman42

desertcircus wrote: »

The one actual idea you've put forward - that when people leave, change is less likely - isn't borne out by the rotating governments of the 1980s or FF's run since 1997. It also fails to take into account the possibility that returning emigrants change their original home when they come back by bringing a different perspective.

Yes it is. If you see emigration as ultimately selfish, and it is, in terms of those who return in better times (imo 'The Rats') They aren't going to rock any boats are they, they are after all, back to capitilise. That is why nothing changed after the eighties, that is why we will never learn.

And no I don't hate those that emigate, I feel sorry for them, because they will always be the nomadic homeless in search of something that will never be found.

moonpurple

in reply to OP

seems to be the case for the people I meet throughout the day
at the deli counter
in the video shop
at the coffee counter
collecting my bin
babysitting my handicapped neighbouring child
etc
etc
etc
etc
:cool:

syklops

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

You call me a Rat. I call you a troll. Can this thread be locked before this tit spews out any more drivel?

scientific1982

Noffles wrote: »

Lets be honest here, who in their right mind wants to stay and work and fork out in taxes and cut backs for the next 10-15 years if they don't have to? Life is ****ing short enough, why spend a good chunk of it working for **** for other people's **** ups???

Personally I wouldnt mind forking out tax if I had a job that im qualified for. I really dont mind doing my bit. The problem is that there are no jobs in my field in this country.