Is Emigrating the Only way to Find Work and have a Better life These days?

RobitTV

Do you think Emigrating from Ireland is probaly the only way To find work? and also have a better quality of life?

About 100,000 people of working age are expected to have left Ireland by the end of this year

Micky Dolenz

The more people who leave = more opportunities for those who stay.

dr.bollocko

There's also alcoholism and the lottery.

desertcircus

The more people who leave, the fewer new companies and the fewer major expansions of the companies already here. A shrinking population rarely increases the opportunities for the people who remain.

Kold

Yes.

galwayrush

We have to stay for a few more years until the kids finish school, then we're out of here so our kids can have a better future.

Hide behind the post

Certainly not-- Yes the economy is not conducive to providing everyone with jobs and the rich soil of the celtic tiger is not longer here.

However, Ireland still has many opportunities (Check any recruitment site, agency etc), jobs are still there but competition for same is intense.

Some will leave as their qualifications are best suited abroad or to start afresh and be the better for it no doubt...others will stay and build a career.

Swings and roundabouts sums it up in my opinion.

We will come out of this but it will be a long road and will not be easy!

This country has and will continue to breed enterprising, intelligent, entrepreneurial and talented individuals.

We are punching above our weight in terms of our size, scale and competitive advantage. Amid the turmoil there is light however fleeting it may appear.

It completely depends on what area you want to work in and what you define as work. There are always jobs in a shop, restaurant, pub, fastfood- it's just that people aren't willing to take these.

galwayrush

Although most of us did nothing wrong, we and at least the next generation will have to pay for the mismanagement and corruption of the country. Anglo really ****ed things, yet Lenehin awarded their management with pay increases, not exactly a good message to sent out to us mere mortals who will be hit with an avalanche of cut backs and stealth taxes to pay for their mistakes and continue to provide financially for a high standard of life for the guilty.

mickydoomsux

Deleted User wrote: »

There are always jobs in a shop, restaurant, pub, fastfood- it's just that people aren't willing to take these.

Exactly. I know younger guys who worked in the building trade during the boom who laughed at me when i suggested that they apply for jobs in the Lidl that was opening locally. Apparently you'd 'have to wear a uniform like a spastic' and you'd 'have no craic on the job with the lads'. These were guys with families and mortgages but they'd sooner sit on their holes drawing the dole and getting a days work here and there.

They wouldn't look for jobs in pubs, fastfood or restaurants for the same reason.

Ulysses Gaze

However, Ireland still has many opportunities (Check any recruitment site, agency etc), jobs are still there but competition for same is intense.

Most of those jobs probably don't exist - Recruitment Companies harvesting CVs.

I'm emigrating, but then again I've always wanted to build planes for a living, so I'd've had to emigrate in boom or bust.

mikemac

Realy, I remember being in college and my younger brother who quit school pulling 600 euro a week on sites as a laborer. And more week at weekends, invariably cash in hand.
And laughing at me and my 53 euro a week VEC grant.

And now a lot in the construction game are unemployed with no trade and it's a big adjustment to go work in a bar or shop for minimum wage and take hassle off customers all day.

Maybe better off emigrating, see a bit of the world

RobitTV

feelingstressed wrote: »

Realy, I remember being in college and my younger brother who quit school pulling 600 euro a week on sites as a laborer. And more week at weekends, invariably cash in hand.
And laughing at me and my 53 euro a week VEC grant.

And now a lot in the construction game are unemployed with no trade and it's a big adjustment to go work in a bar or shop for minimum wage and take hassle off customers all day.

Maybe better off emigrating, see a bit of the world

I Would love to Get out and see abit of the World. Theres a big world out there and i havent even seen a qurater of it. Ireland is boring for me Right now i would like to Emigrate someday.

Happyman42

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

Dave!

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

People should be looking after themselves and their family first, sometimes emigrating is the only way to do that

Clearly you think having everybody stay on the dole waiting for the economy to improve is a better strategy

You're entitled to that view

ClareVisitor

Dave! wrote: »

People should be looking after themselves and their family first, sometimes emigrating is the only way to do that

Clearly you think having everybody stay on the dole waiting for the economy to improve is a better strategy

You're entitled to that view

I think that the high level of dole is a contributory factor. I know a fella who lost his job here in England and went home to draw dole as it's so much higher in Ireland.

I'm no right-winger by any stretch of the imagination, but the amount of dole paid out in Ireland (especially to people with no dependents) is ridiculous.

Happyman42

Dave! wrote: »

People should be looking after themselves and their family first, sometimes emigrating is the only way to do that

Clearly you think having everybody stay on the dole waiting for the economy to improve is a better strategy

You're entitled to that view

Well they should stay away then....you make your bed and you lie in it. This country could be changed if all those who say F*** It and Leave would get involved in a useful way. I listened to the majority of my Leaving Cert class whinging about what a kip this country was from London and the US for years and then suddenly they were all back to take advantage.....now they are the very ones whinging again. Sometime or other you have to make a stand.

SeaFields

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship.

Well if our colleges continue to churn out teachers, nurses and engineers among others, and there are no opportunities, they cannot be expected to take up the Aldi and Lidl jobs mentioned previously in this thread. The need to work in what they trained for and if that is on foreign soil until things here pick up then so be it.

This still does not excuse the current governments lack of action, imagination and motivation in tackling the jobs crisis.

Dave!

Happyman42 wrote: »

Well they should stay away then....you make your bed and you lie in it. This country could be changed if all those who say F*** It and Leave would get involved in a useful way. I listened to the majority of my Leaving Cert class whinging about what a kip this country was from London and the US for years and then suddenly they were all back to take advantage.....now they are the very ones whinging again. Sometime or other you have to make a stand.

Bullsh*t -- people can come and go as they please, nobody should feel obliged to stay in Ireland on the dole. Maybe things would be slightly better if the skilled workers all stayed in the country, but it wouldn't be much better -- there'd still be hundreds of thousands on the dole (taking money out of the economy).

You're talkin sh*te to be honest

Happyman42

SeaFields wrote: »

This still does not excuse the current governments lack of action, imagination and motivation in tackling the jobs crisis.

We get the governments we deserve. This is a democracy, if the disaffected keep jumping ship, nothing will ever change.

KerranJast

Theres still plenty of work in certain sectors. 1.8m people still employed. IT industry is crying out for more talent. Sadly huge numbers of kids were sucked into construction for a quick buck and now are high and dry with no prospect of a job. It'd be interesting to see the unemployment stats minus construction related layoffs.

genericguy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The more people who leave = more opportunities for those who stay.

although i risk a infraction for disagreeing with micky, i must disagree. this simply means that 100,000 non-fianna fail voters have left the country, leaving only parochial-voting saps to ensure another term for brian cowen.
high emigration will also reduce foreign investment here, and will mean that instead of companies looking at who's left in the country, they will look abroad for talent.

personally, i have a fantastic job that i absolutely love, so i wouldn't say that leaving the country is the only way to have a better life, but i don't see any flaws in the rationale of those that do leave. this place is a kip.

Mardy Bum

desertcircus wrote: »

The more people who leave, the fewer new companies and the fewer major expansions of the companies already here. A shrinking population rarely increases the opportunities for the people who remain.

Don't tell Malthus that!

Ulysses Gaze

KerranJast wrote: »

Theres still plenty of work in certain sectors. 1.8m people still employed. IT industry is crying out for more talent. Sadly huge numbers of kids were sucked into construction for a quick buck and now are high and dry with no prospect of a job. It'd be interesting to see the unemployment stats minus construction related layoffs.

There are not 1.8 million people still employed.

There were 2.1 million at the height of the boom with currently 425,00-450,000 on the dole. Add in another 90-100,000+ on training courses plus an unknown number of Self Employed who are out of work and it is more likely that it is closer to 1.4 million in employment.

doolox

The dole is like a financial lifeboat to people and serves two purposes:

It makes the government put job creation high up on their agenda. Because of the cost of Dole the govt have to think hard about solving job shortages and wouldn't be bothered if there was lower or no dole.

It brings up the cost of labour to relatively liveable levels, without dole EVERYONEs wages would be reduced by an amount approx equal to the dole so not only would the unemployed suffer but those with weak bargaining power would also suffer.

The threat of being fired would be all the greater if dole was reduced to starvation levels or homelessness became the inevitable result of losing ones job, this would give employers huge bargaining power and result in lower wages for all. I think it best not to give employers a bigger gun than they now have in these hard times........

I would suggest that those who think that the dole is too high should google unemployment or search for it on youtube and see how the US handles its unemployed people. In some cases they have to get up at 5-6 am to travel 100's of miles to their assigned work and the travel time is not counted as part of their days work. What should be 8-9 hour days become 13-14 hour days as a result and the threat of losing all welfare is always there. In other cases children have been taken off mothers for non compliance with near slavery working conditions in low paid jobs and huge power is given into the hands of employers as a result.

While I don't think the draft is back in the US there is a huge temptation for young, uneducated and desperate people to enlist in the armed forces with a consequent risk to life and limb in Americas "War on Terror". In some states restrictions are placed on access to dole for people who turn down an offer to join the military.Of course if you are not fit enough to join you may be able to escape from that bind. Its hard on young, fit people though.

AlexderFranke

In times of severe crisis, gpomg tp work abroad for a certain time is an option instead of being unemployed for a longer period. Furthermore time spent abroad will provide you better chances at home when you will return. Surely time abroad will enrich your life if you are not too afraid of doing so. But I would recommand you to think carefully about this option. For this option certainly does not suit everybody. It depends on your personal profile. I would not advice people to go abroad to whom it is over-difficult to get used to a foreign surrounding and to be far of friends.
What about going to Scotland or perhaps Wales? These are also celtic-derived nations with far lower rates of unemployment. Scotland is even more related to Ireland than Wales because it is your gaelic sister. And you are near to home. The situation in the whole of Britain is probably even better than in the popular emigration country, the U.S. at the moment.
Permanent emigration is likely to cause the country to get even worse. It is to the gouvernment and to patriotic companies to keep scilled persons in the country in order to rescue the country from a severe loss. Yes, I think some foreigners working in Ireland on jobs which would otherwise probably get an Irish person should leave. The gouvernment should support those foreigners leaving the country.
Especially dedicated Irish speakers ought not to go permanently. Please think of your part of responsibility for your national language. You will not encounter as many Irish speakers in the world than in Ireland!

In amanna na géar-scéime sa tír, is fiú gearr-tréimhse a chaitheamh thar lear. Mar beidh seans níos fearr agaibh post a fháil agus sibhse a fhilleadh ar ais agus feabhsóidh sé ag saibhriú do shaol. Ach braitheann sé chomh maith ag an saghas pearsa an bhfuil sé féiliúnach nó nach bhfuil. Mar shampla, ní mholfainn mé dul thar lear do dhaoine le mór-dheacrachtaí a éirí cleachta le nua-thimpeallachtaí agus cairde nua a fháil. Mar sin, déan smaointe cúramacha ar do chinneadh!
Ach is féidir go ndéanann imirce de dhreamanna móra gan fhilleadh ar ais níos mó dochair ar an tír. Mar sin, is leis an rialtas agus comhlachtaí le tírghrá na lucht ard-oilte a choinneáil sa tír. Ní fíu é don tír an géar-chaill mar sin a fhulaingt!
Más é bhur dtoil é, a Ghaeilgeoirí, ná imígí go buan! Smaoin ar do chuid freagrachta ar an teanga náisiúnta!
Cad faoi dhul go dtí an Albain nó an mBreatain beag? Beidh tú gar do do thír dúchasach agus is tír le gaolta leis an Éirinn é go háirithe an Albain. B´fhéidir go bhfoghlaimeoidh tú Gaeilge na hAlban no Breatnais. Agus is dóigh go bhfuil fiú amháin níos mó deiseanna ann le post a fháil sa Bhriotáin faoi seo ná sa tír an-fhaiseanta mar atá na Stáit Aontaithe.
Sin é mo thuairim ná gur chóir do mhuintir eachtrannacha atá ag obair in Éiinn ar phostanna go mheadh ar dhóigh eile ag Éireannach a fhágail na tíre. Ba chóir don rialtas imeacht cuid muintire eachtrannaigh a thacú.

May the work and luck rise with you! Go n-éirí an obair agus an t-ádh libh!
Alex

mickydoomsux

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

We're still stuck here paying single people with no kids €200 a week to sit on their holes because they're too proud to take a job stacking shelves.

Austerity

mickydoomsux wrote: »

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

We're still stuck here paying single people with no kids €200 a week to sit on their holes because they're too proud to take a job stacking shelves.

Yes the US might be a "financially succesfull" country but many parts of the US I have seen myself look like third world countries.

Micky Dolenz

genericguy wrote: »

although i risk a infraction for disagreeing with micky, i must disagree. this simply means that 100,000 non-fianna fail voters have left the country, leaving only parochial-voting saps to ensure another term for brian cowen.

Sadly I'm pretty sure I can't infract for someone disagreeing although i should really check the mod hand book first :P

you probably have a point on the FF'ers though.

kilburn

I think most of the jobs being advertised by recruitment agencies are phantom jobs. I am going to give it until the new year, no job by then adios.

gonedrinking

mickydoomsux wrote: »

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

We're still stuck here paying single people with no kids €200 a week to sit on their holes because they're too proud to take a job stacking shelves.

hopefully in the budget the dole will be reduced to a more reasonable amount like 150 or so, with the resulting savings being given as grants to entrepreneurs/business start-ups/export companies

El Horseboxo

I was out at that working abroad thing yesterday in the RDS. Hundreds of young people out there applying for visas and looking for info. Emigration seems to be very much on the agenda for a lot of people. I'll be leaving next summer.

Tchaikovsky

I'm off at the start of next year and I can't wait.
It was always on my agenda to travel and work abroad; I wouldn't give those FF kunts the satisfaction of knowing they forced me out.

flash1080

Fair play to FF for forcing people out of the country, there aren't jobs for everyone so people have to go. Let them be a burden to other countries.

charlemont

its always been fianna fail policy to encourage emigration, the more disfranchised people that emigrate means less votes for the opposition...

its backwards this country has gone and those who still vote and contribute to fianna fail will pay a terrible cost before its over... some of us aint going to take this **** anymore...

desertcircus

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

That's a pretty unpleasant way to characterise people who leave the country for their own reasons - you don't know the factors influencing their decisions. And it's grossly unfair to lay the blame for the property boom on returning Irish; the people who bought buy to let were people who had substantial equity built up in their own homes.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Recession tuk dur jurrrrbs :mad:

Happyman42

desertcircus wrote: »

That's a pretty unpleasant way to characterise people who leave the country for their own reasons - you don't know the factors influencing their decisions. And it's grossly unfair to lay the blame for the property boom on returning Irish; the people who bought buy to let were people who had substantial equity built up in their own homes.

We live in unpleasant times, my friend, we will all have to face up. The whinging from aboard that we all have to listen to is hollow imo. If you go for selfish reasons, good luck to you, but don't come back.

Geansai Rua

mickydoomsux wrote: »

And yet the US is one of the most financially successful countries in the world and their recession ended a good while ago.

We're still stuck here paying single people with no kids €200 a week to sit on their holes because they're too proud to take a job stacking shelves.

Yes single people are getting too much.
They did reduce under 24's dole though..

But if(when) they reduce the dole, the families that still have to pay mortgages, school fees, transport,etc. will be the ones who suffer.

My famiy rely on social welfare and trust me there is nothing left over!

Herb Powell

Happyman42 wrote: »

Well they should stay away then....you make your bed and you lie in it. This country could be changed if all those who say F*** It and Leave would get involved in a useful way. I listened to the majority of my Leaving Cert class whinging about what a kip this country was from London and the US for years and then suddenly they were all back to take advantage.....now they are the very ones whinging again. Sometime or other you have to make a stand.

eh, no, you do what you want
You sound incredibly butthurt that you know people who were smart enough to take advantages of economic situations. I'm not going to be fcked over by this crap because I'm young and I still need to see the world. I'm not a "rat" because I want a better life. Idealistic fools sink with their ships

desertcircus

Happyman42 wrote: »

We live in unpleasant times, my friend, we will all have to face up. The whinging from aboard that we all have to listen to is hollow imo. If you go for selfish reasons, good luck to you, but don't come back.

"We live in unpleasant times" isn't an answer. Characterising people as rats for making the frequently wrenching decision to leave their families and friends to try to find work and make their own way in the world isn't justified by simply saying that we live in unpleasant times.

And has it honestly never occurred to you that one of the only things that kept this country going for years was the consequence of emigration? The job market remained far less crowded with applicants than it otherwise would have; social welfare payments were necessary for fewer people; money was sent home from the likes of London and Boston.

Leaving the country isn't a moral failing. Staying isn't a moral triumph. Nobody's special just because they were either safe or too scared to leave. Go find a better scapegoat.

scientific1982

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rats will always abandon a sinking ship. What is annoying is that they return when the ship is refloated. A huge percentage of 80's emigrants returned here to take advantage of the Celtic Tiger and imho (based on local observation) that these returnees where largely responsible for driving the property boom, with ridiculous lifestyles and no responsibility.( I'd love if there was a way to come up with figures to support that) If the dis-affected would for once STAY then maybe we could change the way we are governed once and for all.

Its thanks to people leaving the country in the past and sending money back home that we actually had an ok economy at one stage. Also, when the folks who left in the 1980s came back home, they brought with them skills and knowledge that were very much in demand in the workforce. It was those "rats" that helped create the celtic tiger.

Happyman42

scientific1982 wrote: »

Its thanks to people leaving the country in the past and sending money back home that we actually had an ok economy at one stage.

^^^^ Frank McCourt revisionist nonsense.

You go, you forfeit your franchise. End of.
Stay and change the system then your kids can stay and belong somewhere.

scientific1982

Happyman42 wrote: »

^^^^ Frank McCourt revisionist nonsense.

You go, you forfeit your franchise. End of.
Stay and change the system then your kids can stay and belong somewhere.

Revisionist nonsense your hole. Maybe your family is from an affluent urban area but if you were from the country or a disadvantaged area during those times, that was the only option available. You havent a clue what you're talking about.

doolox

If the govt allowed people on the dole to work say 10-15 hours a week for their dole it might be better than idleness.

Some work could be reserved for unemployed apprentices to allow them to complete their courses successfully, which require an element of work experience.

Some people have qualifications but lack the experience in certain areas to capture a job. For others access to expensive equipment to gain experience is the issue. What I find wrong with the current WPP1 or 2 is the requirement to work 39hrs a week for the dole which is below minimum wage.

It would be more appropriate and attractive to people if these placements were pitched at 15-20 hours.

Happyman42

scientific1982 wrote: »

Revisionist nonsense your hole. Maybe your family is from an affluent urban area but if you were from the country or a disadvantaged area during those times, that was the only option available. You havent a clue what you're talking about.

Some people have to go....but not all. A large percentage are mercenary and selfish and ultimately (whatever way YOU want to look at that) it is a form of treason imo.
Tatty parcels of secondhand clothes and a few gubby dollars is not gonna solve our longterm problems, it is only going to change when enough people want it to change. Slamming the door in a huff is no answer, which is what a lot of the posters on this thread are doing.

Jagle

Happyman42 wrote: »

Some people have to go....but not all. A large percentage are mercenary and selfish and ultimately (whatever way YOU want to look at that) it is a form of treason imo.
Tatty parcels of secondhand clothes and a few gubby dollars is not gonna solve our longterm problems, it is only going to change when enough people want it to change. Slamming the door in a huff is no answer, which is what a lot of the posters on this thread are doing.

im sorry happyman, im young still in college, and when i graduate i will have no job prospects, now i knew this before the economy took a nose dive, and always felt that i would have to leave, this recession and they way our government have handled it have led me to want to leave even more. i love my country i have voted since the day i was able to, i really am an irish man through and through, but i am so sick of the fatcats, the greedy topmen that to be honest id rather move away and happily pay taxes to a government i agree with, there is no changing our government, they were raised in a time when things were different and are very stubborn and pig headed when it comes to forgetting what you were thought and looking at modern life, but i am no way a "rat" for leaving, and if you feel that those who are fed up with the system should just change it, well then you have no idea what it takes to change anything, and know that its impossible to change our situation

My name is URL

OP, when are you planning on leaving? You've been going on about emigration for long enough. Just book your flights already.. There's obviously nothing keeping you here other than your incessant desire to share your dislike of the country

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056031809
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056018786
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055832614
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055832610

Happyman42

Jagle wrote: »

im sorry happyman, im young still in college, and when i graduate i will have no job prospects, now i knew this before the economy took a nose dive, and always felt that i would have to leave, this recession and they way our government have handled it have led me to want to leave even more. i love my country i have voted since the day i was able to, i really am an irish man through and through, but i am so sick of the fatcats, the greedy topmen that to be honest id rather move away and happily pay taxes to a government i agree with, there is no changing our government, they were raised in a time when things were different and are very stubborn and pig headed when it comes to forgetting what you were thought and looking at modern life, but i am no way a "rat" for leaving, and if you feel that those who are fed up with the system should just change it, well then you have no idea what it takes to change anything, and know that its impossible to change our situation

Not a good situation to be in.
Things won't change in this county because the people with the 'power' always cut and run. The people with the 'power' in this instance are those that have been disenfranchised like you. You go, you leave the status quo intact. Simple as.
And the system can be changed, the power of the church in this country was broken because a small minority convinced the majority that the institution was corrupt to the core.

Jagle

ha im sorry happyman but you honestly believe this government can be changed? you then know nothing of the irish attitude of **** it, when our country fell apart we did nothing when the government time and time again increased taxes, added new taxes and continued to take money from our paychecks to pay for the mistakes of others nothing happened, oh how i waited for someone to stand up and do something, i was fully prepaired for rioting in the streets telling them to go f-off but no, we lay down and we took it, and thats why nothing will change you can vote in whatever party you want, but it wont change