Is Emigrating the Only way to Find Work and have a Better life These days?

Geansai Rua

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes it is. If you see emigration as ultimately selfish, and it is, in terms of those who return in better times (imo 'The Rats') They aren't going to rock any boats are they, they are after all, back to capitilise. That is why nothing changed after the eighties, that is why we will never learn.

And no I don't hate those that emigate, I feel sorry for them, because they will always be the nomadic homeless in search of something that will never be found.

So everyone should just sit here doing nothing, claiming the dole..?
Hey but at least we are not nomads?

desertcircus

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes it is. If you see emigration as ultimately selfish, and it is, in terms of those who return in better times (imo 'The Rats') They aren't going to rock any boats are they, they are after all, back to capitilise. That is why nothing changed after the eighties, that is why we will never learn.

And no I don't hate those that emigate, I feel sorry for them, because they will always be the nomadic homeless in search of something that will never be found.

So according to you, when they leave, there's no impetus for change because they're not here. When they come back, there's no impetus for change because they are here. Exactly what change were you hoping for, and how do you think it's going to come about?

Also: denial of hatred is a bit late when you've repeatedly characterised people as "rats".

My name is URL

Geansai Rua wrote: »

So everyone should just sit here doing nothing, claiming the dole..?
Hey but at least we are not nomads?

To be fair, that implies that anyone not emigrating is destined to end up relying on the dole, and that simply isn't true. I don't know the stats, but it's safe to say that a hefty number of people have or will emigrate despite already having a job. I know a few people who declined jobs here and decided to settle abroad instead recently. There's nothing wrong with that at all. One thing I'd have a problem with is those same people availing of free education here with no intent of staying after graduating, whether jobs are available or not. It's a double edged sword.. not only are we losing those highly qualified people, but also the college placements for people who would be interested in working here after graduation.

The Aussie

It could be worse, at least the Irish people are welcome to emigrate to a lot of countries.

Happyman42

desertcircus wrote: »

So according to you, when they leave, there's no impetus for change because they're not here. When they come back, there's no impetus for change because they are here. /QUOTE]

There you have it. Why would they want it to change? They have the best of both worlds, leave and exploit another country and then return and exploit their own country, no reponsibilities either way.
It happened before in the 80's, the emigration, then the return during the Tiger, that you can't deny or can you?.....you can be dammed sure they won't be jumping ship during the good times crying 'this boom is wrong', why is that do you think?:rolleyes:

desertcircus

If they make no difference by leaving or by returning, why on earth would they make a difference by staying??

Happyman42

desertcircus wrote: »

If they make no difference by leaving or by returning, why on earth would they make a difference by staying??

Had you read my post way back on page 2 you might know my answer to that.

Happyman42 wrote: »

This country could be changed if all those who say F*** It and Leave would get involved in a useful way.

Gunsfortoys

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Sadly I'm pretty sure I can't infract for someone disagreeing although i should really check the mod hand book first :P

I have seen people infracted for less...

I would like to see polling stations put in these countries for the Irish people that emigrated there. Remember the polish people got to vote from here to decide who governs Poland? If this was an option it might be a sure way to get FF out.

JONJO THE MISER

Ye all come back, ye hear now:D

desertcircus

So it's nothing to do with them leaving or coming back and everything to do with them not getting involved?

If you're angry about people not getting involved, then get angry about that. Getting angry about people who left to find jobs and then came back when it became an option is weirdly irrelevant. Staying wouldn't have turned them into activists, and what about all the people still here who aren't involved? And what do you mean by involvement? What is it that people who stayed do and people who've come back don't do?

syklops

desertcircus wrote: »

So it's nothing to do with them leaving or coming back and everything to do with them not getting involved?

If you're angry about people not getting involved, then get angry about that. Getting angry about people who left to find jobs and then came back when it became an option is weirdly irrelevant. Staying wouldn't have turned them into activists, and what about all the people still here who aren't involved? And what do you mean by involvement? What is it that people who stayed do and people who've come back don't do?

I left. After leaving, I joined a political party. When a general election is called, Ill be booking my flights and asking for time off for election day. I don't know what else I can do, from where I now live.

ejmaztec

Happyman42 wrote: »

There you have it. Why would they want it to change? They have the best of both worlds, leave and exploit another country and then return and exploit their own country, no reponsibilities either way.
It happened before in the 80's, the emigration, then the return during the Tiger, that you can't deny or can you?.....you can be dammed sure they won't be jumping ship during the good times crying 'this boom is wrong', why is that do you think?:rolleyes:

That's complete rubbish.

Many emigrants send money back to their families over the years, so are supporting two economies.

The ones who do return to live here, usually come back with a cash surplus, which is also injected into the Irish economy.

The ones who come back home to retire, as well as the obligatory cash surplus, are also in receipt of foreign pensions, so pump even more money into the Irish economy.

Then there are ones who only come back for holidays, and they get fleeced as tourists.

Don't blame them for leaving the country, blame successive governments, since 1922, for doing feck all to stop them leaving in the first place. Of all the emigrants that I've spoken with on this, only a handful actually wanted to leave Ireland, but the rest had no choice, and had to go for the sake of their families.

Aprilmay

We are leaving early next year - We got a greencard and myself and the husband and two kids are going we both have jobs here but we are going and we are doing it for the kids. We applied two years ago for the green card and are now happy we did.I really feel sorry for the younger generation, I left school in the 80s and people we leaving the country then -it seems to be a cycle thats repeating itself and we are not waiting for our children to be educated so they can leave.

Predator_

What about the 300,000 jobs FF are creating:pac:

ejmaztec

Predator_ wrote: »

What about the 300,000 jobs FF are creating:pac:

In the small print it says they're all overseas.

Happyman42

ejmaztec wrote: »

That's complete rubbish.

Many emigrants send money back to their families over the years, so are supporting two economies.

The ones who do return to live here, usually come back with a cash surplus, which is also injected into the Irish economy.

The ones who come back home to retire, as well as the obligatory cash surplus, are also in receipt of foreign pensions, so pump even more money into the Irish economy.

Then there are ones who only come back for holidays, and they get fleeced as tourists.

Don't blame them for leaving the country, blame successive governments, since 1922, for doing feck all to stop them leaving in the first place. Of all the emigrants that I've spoken with on this, only a handful actually wanted to leave Ireland, but the rest had no choice, and had to go for the sake of their families.

Spare me the 'woe is me' ballad fodder.
The people I am talking about are the very people who partook at the table of the Celtic Tiger, who were educated here, grew up in the most affluent times this country has ever seen and are now the ones skipping off (and being encouraged to skip off} when the going gets tough.
These aren't the sons and daughters of sack clothed subsistence farmers. So what, if you don't get to use your degree for a few years? Most of them are happy and have been happy with menial jobs when they go away, anyway. But no, that's somehow beneath them when it comes to the society they are indebted to.
But because they are young, unemployed, they somehow are absolved of 'responsibility', gimme a break.
There is a guy here, regales anybody idiotic enough to listen to him about how he lived on the 'system' in England for yrs as if it was his bit for Irish Freedom and then he was the very guy trying to get a petition signed to stop a housing development because 'You would have no idea who might move in beside you' (and we all know what that nugget of Facisim means!) He is indicitave of the pariah culture this country seems to foster and facilitate.There has to be a change.

Herb Powell

Happyman42 wrote: »

Spare me the 'woe is me' ballad fodder.
The people I am talking about are the very people who partook at the table of the Celtic Tiger, who were educated here, grew up in the most affluent times this country has ever seen and are now the ones skipping off (and being encouraged to skip off} when the going gets tough.
These aren't the sons and daughters of sack clothed subsistence farmers. So what, if you don't get to use your degree for a few years? Most of them are happy and have been happy with menial jobs when they go away, anyway. But no, that's somehow beneath them when it comes to the society they are indebted to.
But because they are young, unemployed, they somehow are absolved of 'responsibility', gimme a break.
There is a guy here, regales anybody idiotic enough to listen to him about how he lived on the 'system' in England for yrs as if it was his bit for Irish Freedom and then he was the very guy trying to get a petition signed to stop a housing development because 'You would have no idea who might move in beside you' (and we all know what that nugget of Facisim means!) He is indicitave of the pariah culture this country seems to foster and facilitate.There has to be a change.

what the **** are you talking about?

ejmaztec

Happyman42 wrote: »

Spare me the 'woe is me' ballad fodder.
The people I am talking about are the very people who partook at the table of the Celtic Tiger, who were educated here, grew up in the most affluent times this country has ever seen and are now the ones skipping off (and being encouraged to skip off} when the going gets tough.
These aren't the sons and daughters of sack clothed subsistence farmers. So what, if you don't get to use your degree for a few years? Most of them are happy and have been happy with menial jobs when they go away, anyway. But no, that's somehow beneath them when it comes to the society they are indebted to.
But because they are young, unemployed, they somehow are absolved of 'responsibility', gimme a break.
There is a guy here, regales anybody idiotic enough to listen to him about how he lived on the 'system' in England for yrs as if it was his bit for Irish Freedom and then he was the very guy trying to get a petition signed to stop a housing development because 'You would have no idea who might move in beside you' (and we all know what that nugget of Facisim means!) He is indicitave of the pariah culture this country seems to foster and facilitate.There has to be a change.

What really gets your goat is that these people probably managed to buy themselves big houses, and you're still living under the bridge.

Happyman42

ejmaztec wrote: »

What really gets your goat is that these people probably managed to buy themselves big houses,

Don't you mean nearly?

questionmark?

Predator_ wrote: »

What about the 300,000 jobs FF are creating:pac:

How many Quangoes <spelling?> can they make up?

ejmaztec

Happyman42 wrote: »

Don't you mean nearly?

I said probably, if they're like me and bought their house outright, with a big wad of imported cash.:P

genericguy

kilburn wrote: »

I think most of the jobs being advertised by recruitment agencies are phantom jobs. I am going to give it until the new year, no job by then adios.

this isn't true. the problem is that companies are being extremely fussy when telling agencies what candidates to find for them. the recruitment agencies aren't being picky, they're just doing what they're told by the people who pay them. there are a large number of unscrupulous cnuts in that industry though, but to be honest i've dealt a fair bit with them and think they get unfair stick - i couldn't look at cvs all day from unrealistic saps talking about their hugely important degree in film and their "transferable skills" that make them suitable for a scientific consultancy job.

the problem with emigration is that it's only the talented ones who leave. We should set up a labour camp in Taiwan for all the heroin addicts, and everyone fairly fired from a job.

Tchaikovsky

Happyman42 wrote: »

A large percentage are mercenary and selfish and ultimately (whatever way YOU want to look at that) it is a form of treason imo.

There's only one shower who can be described in these terms and it's not the emigrants.

If your sole purpose of posting in this thread isn't to be an antagonistic troll, then I must say that your attitude stinks and is typical of the 'little Irelander' syndrome.

The young people who are being forced to emigrate weren't responsible for the current ****storm and are free to find a better life for themselves and their families, if that's the case.


Would you describe the young Eastern Europeans who came here a few years ago to work as 'rats fleeing the sinking ship' aswell??

Tchaikovsky

Happyman42 wrote: »

when it comes to the society they are indebted to.

Fvck me, does Kim Jung-Il have an Irish cousin??

Lemegeton

me and my girlfriend are trying to move to the UK. we are sick of this corrupt overpriced craphole of a country. she is out of work 2 years and its not because she wont apply for the **** jobs. the likes of pennys and dunnes keep turning her away cos they wont hire anyone with management experience. **** this **** we are off.

Fluorescence

Happyman42 wrote: »

So what, if you don't get to use your degree for a few years? Most of them are happy and have been happy with menial jobs when they go away, anyway. But no, that's somehow beneath them when it comes to the society they are indebted to.
But because they are young, unemployed, they somehow are absolved of 'responsibility', gimme a break.

Nobody is indebted to a society that has screwed them over time and again, that has failed them.

The young and unemployed are hardly "skipping" out of this country! If anything, they are being forced out for lack of any hope here. People who have studied or trained for years to make a decent career for themselves should not be bullied by people like you who believe that they should remain in this country miserable with no prospects. You would have people who are able-bodied and willing to work stay here in menial positions or drawing the dole rather than out in the world making a life for themselves?! Life is too damn short to ascribe to such foolish notions of patriotism like that :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Happyman42

So, all you who find my point of view unpalatable....you tell me how it is going to change then?
Everytime we face a crisis those of us who stay look around and there is nobody there to effect change. Why? Because they have all left. And do they come back when times improve? Too right they do, in their droves!
So spare me insults for seeing them as pariahs....because I see a fair percentage upping sticks again.
But will they vote? Will they get involved? Will they f***. I am begining to despair that this society will never change, we find it very easy to turn a blind eye and blame somebody else or entrust somebody else to sort it out. The Church, the Government etc etc etc.
What I am talking about is a sense pf nationhood, a sense of belonging, responsibility and belief in the future.

Fluorescence

Your talk of "nationhood" and patriotism is all very grand, but at the end of the day it's each to their own. Sometimes you just have to put yourself and your loved one's need first, and fcuk everyone else, and this grander sense of belonging to a nation. We're in the 21st century now, and people are free to make their lives where they see fit. Just because someone's born on this God forsaken isle, doesn't mean they're chained to it indefinitely.

Sure, it'd be great if all the intelligent people stayed and eventually got the country back on its feet but that's not realistic is it?

holystungun9

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm emigrating, but then again I've always wanted to build planes for a living, so I'd've had to emigrate in boom or bust.

Aw yeah, look at yer man, turning his back on the country, he wouldn't stick around and set up a company here. We're an island and he reckons he has to move off to make planes like he couldn't do something here.

(Couldn't leave the OP go without some good old fashioned begrudgery, the likes of which can only be got here in the fair ol' emerald isle.)

On a serious note, best of luck, hope all goes well for ya.

Happyman42

fluorescence wrote: »

Your talk of "nationhood" and patriotism is all very grand, but at the end of the day it's each to their own. Sometimes you just have to put yourself and your loved one's need first, and fcuk everyone else, and this grander sense of belonging to a nation.

And there you have it....another generation thinking they are unique. It's cyclical in this country and the reason for that is that the same thing happens everytime. Who loses ultimately?