first date - go dutch?

coffee_cake

Egh. I've never heard of this "you do the asking you pay" business; as far as I'm concerned I pay half each time. I'll accept if they insist on paying the whole thing and I know they can afford it but that's it and I'll still owe them a drink or something later. I don't go out expecting to be treated

metaoblivia

I expect the guy to pay for me if he invites me out to dinner or the movies. I'll offer to pay half, but the men I've dated usually won't hear of that. On the rare occasion that I do end up paying half, there hasn't been a second date.

animaal

I wonder how many of these women with "old fashioned" ideas would be ok with a man saying "I'm old fashioned - I only hire men because a woman's place is in the home, not in the workplace"?

anonymous_joe

I laughed through this thread. Such anger. ^^

My (ironically) Dutch ex and I usually split things, or took turns. I'd pay for one dinner, she might pay for the next. There was no expectation that either one of us did it. Given that we were both students, money's not exactly growing on trees, so what else can you expect?

Regarding the 'little princess' thing, I got her plenty of little things, because I thought she'd like them. If someone expected that, if it was some kind of 'test' I'd fúck right off so fast.

I don't want a bimbo, I want someone who'll be my partner, not my bítch. (Apologies for the choice of word, but slave, pet, whatever are all the kind of words that spring to mind for this kind of mindset.) If someone's not willing to be my equal, I've absolutely f all interest in them as a person.

I'm relatively chivalrous, I was taught good manners, and I use them in my day to day life, I don't use them to try and impress people. I feel sorry for the people who view these things as tests, and even sorrier for those with them...

Zaph

GinnyJo wrote: »

So you've been on a date with me? Yeah at the end of every date I do my destinys child routine, with the moves and all :rolleyes:

Well I'd definitely have no problem paying for everything to see that.

Curlypinkie

This thread is so interesting! From a social perspective non the least. I've thought real hard why there are so many "hot" answers to this, it's a very emotive topic!

I wonder why there is such a difference between some of the answers from posters.. and why do I expect a man to pay on the first date? Would yiz believe that it was actually discussed at lunch??

I expect it just as I expect him to have table manners. Because I believe its on par with manners! I only ever ran into men that would accept me pay my way for a dinner or the first round of drinks in Ireland.
For me it's good manners, bon ton, whatever, for a man to pay for the first date (and can I stress enough - 1st!). So believe my :eek: when some actually accepted half of the dinner bill from me....

I think in Sweden we've had equal rights for a veeeeeeery long time and things have actually if not come back full circle, then definitely stabilised. Say 10 years ago it still was very uncool to get married. Now it's in again. 20 years ago it was really uncool for a girl to be a stay at home mum, ALL the women were working. My mum actually got slagged she stayed with us until me and my sister were 3 and 7.

Now it's accepted to stay as well as work. No men get slagged for taking a few months paternity leave and there are loads of them who are stay at home dads and the wife is working (my sis again).
So please don't preach to me about equality. I know why all of you girls defend it so much. Your mums didn't have it and you cherish it and you are really fighting for it and fair play to yez. (I might be wrong). And this would also be why I so much respect your point of view and would never think that it's wrong.

I would say if you came this far this fast in Ireland it has to be defended. But I also have my right to defend my point of view because me wanting my date to pay for our first dinner, again, has nothing to do with me potentially being a bimbo or taking the mickey out off Germaine Greer.

Ginny

Believe me it scares away more on average...;)

St Bill

If a man asks me out and doesn't pay for everything on the date because he simply can't afford too, that's no problem. If a man asks me out and the date is going fine, I offer to pay half and he accepts, that's no problem.
However if a man asked me out and refused to pay for everything on that date just to quite blatantly prove a point (i.e. well you wanted equality, now you have it. happy?) I'd have no interest in him because it implies that he has a chip on his shoulder.
There's no place on a first date for chips.*







*And that conveniently rules out MacDonalds too :pac:

LightningBolt

If out on a date with a girl for the first time I'll always pay. It's got nothing to do with equality, earning power, expectations etc. It's just plain old fashioned romance and if she has a problem with me trying to initiate that then that wouldn't bode well for the future would it.

Curlypinkie

St Bill wrote: »

If a man asks me out and doesn't pay for everything on the date because he simply can't afford too, that's no problem. If a man asks me out and the date is going fine, I offer to pay half and he accepts, that's no problem.
However if a man asked me out and refused to pay for everything on that date just to quite blatantly prove a point (i.e. well you wanted equality, now you have it. happy?) I'd have no interest in him because it implies that he has a chip on his shoulder.
There's no place on a first date for chips.*

Lol.

See I think this is all fruitless and very theoretical, because on the first date people are usually too reserved to show their true colours. So gold-diggers will pay their way and equality-mad women will accept the man to pay their bill.....

They're not going to do a Ginny Joe (sorry you're officially THE hand movement-legend imo!:p) in the fellas face and quote early suffragette-chants.

They're not going to grab the fellas wallet either to very pointingly show him, that indeed there is cash in there to cover for the whole feast.

Nope, girls will go with the flow. And then rant on boards after the date:D

Nursy

Curlypinkie wrote: »

Lol.

See I think this is all fruitless and very theoretical, because on the first date people are usually too reserved to show their true colours. So gold-diggers will pay their way and equality-mad women will accept the man to pay their bill.....

They're not going to do a Ginny Joe (sorry you're officially THE hand movement-legend imo!:p) in the fellas face and quote early suffragette-chants.

They're not going to grab the fellas wallet either to very pointingly show him, that indeed there is cash in there to cover for the whole feast.

Nope, girls will go with the flow. And then rant on boards after the date:D

So true!!... hi..hi.:D:pac::pac:

St Bill

Curlypinkie wrote: »

because on the first date people are usually too reserved to show their true colours.

I think it's quite easy to spot when a man (or woman, for that matter) has issues about equality. They're very idealistic and subscribe to an impossible image, which unfortunately sometimes leads to a lack of manners, so keen are they to live up to their self imposed model.
Same goes for anyone trying to live in a perfectly logical world bereft of 'those damn pesky emotions'. : )

Wibbs

Dave147 wrote: »

That's just more of it, you're a woman, I hate all this PC crap.. Yeah, be independent, good for you. Buy your own house, your own car, your own clothes etc. I don't care, but for God's sake if you're going out on a date with a guy and he offers to pay, don't straight away start going on about being independent and you can pay your own way, it's bloody ridiculous, we know you can, it's a gentlemanly gesture that's all.

I just don't get why women need to shout about being independent, it's pathetic.

+1. It can be a cultural thing too(and no, I'm not about to kick off a diatribe about Irish wimmin either).

I have sadly found in general one either gets the "I pay for everything, because if I don't you'll expect something in return, Haaarumph!" Types(Word to the wise, I wouldn't), or "I'm gonna bat my eyelids at you and push my cleavage in your face so that I won't have to put my hand in my non existent pocket. Both equally daft, though I would have at least some respect for the former, though would write them off as partner material, simply because the harpy quotient would be too high for my tastes. The latter would not get far with me. As a callow youth I went out with the latter type. Life is too short. Both IMHO stem from the same source; insecurity. The strongest most centered women I know don't do either of those behaviours. They know who they are and take it from there(same goes for sound people of either gender).

The third type of person that understands the dynamic and the reasoning behind it is all too rare, let me tell you, though thankfully they do exist.

Look it's real bloody simple. It boils down to manners. That's it. I don't care what feminist manifesto or macho male crapola you've read. It boils down to manners. If I ask someone, essentially a stranger, out for a meal I expect to pay for it. Simple as that. If she asks me out I would expect her to pay as well. Drinkies afterwards we would be going dutch.

I gauge this very easily. If I said to a male mate of mine, "look you've gone through the shíte recently, I'm bringing you out for a slap up meal and a few ales to take your mind off". I would not expect him to pay because I've made the suggestion. To do so would put undue pressure on him. Now that's a mate, not someone I don't know/I want to get the leg over/go out with. The dynamic re payment is the same.

Lets imagine that same male mate or a woman I'm interested in. She agrees to the date. Cool and the gang. I then choose to drag her to some mad chew and chuck where the wine list alone kicks off in double figures. That was my choice as the instigator of the meeting. Should she(or he) expect to dig deep to cover that? Eh no.

I take the same view with regard to buying women I don't know drinks. I simply don't. Never have as I wouldn't buy a pint for a bloke I didn't know either. If they're part of the group and a round comes to me then fine. Beyond that no.

Curlypinkie

Holy flunk Wibbs, I find myself, again, agreeing to like every single word in your post. And in one post you pretty much covered it all. Especially manners. Coz it took me a looong time to figure the manners bit out myself Thanks!

coffee_cake

Gosh I hope I'm not getting painted with the crazy-feminist brush here

Wibbs wrote:

Lets imagine that same male mate or a woman I'm interested in. She agrees to the date. Cool and the gang. I then choose to drag her to some mad chew and chuck where the wine list alone kicks off in double figures. That was my choice as the instigator of the meeting. Should she(or he) expect to dig deep to cover that? Eh no.

Ah, I think therein lies the difference - I was approaching from my usual experience of hey let's go on a date and discuss where to go, rather than "I'm bringing you to x restaurant". The way you put it ofc makes sense that the latter would have the instigator paying
*nod*

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

Gosh I hope I'm not getting painted with the crazy-feminist brush here

Hush good woman and get back in that kitchen. Barefoot and pregnant of course. Naked and carrying a beer keg will get you extra points and extra points will get you those lovely shoes you've been wanting for the last three years......

Women eh? Sheesh:rolleyes::D


















hides in corner. Armed to the teeth....

anonymous_joe

Wibbs - the font of all wisdom.

(More for the sensible post than the second, but a man can dream. :pac:)

Zaph

Wibbs wrote: »

Hush good woman and get back in that kitchen. Barefoot and pregnant of course. Naked and carrying a beer keg will get you extra points and extra points will get you those lovely shoes you've been wanting for the last three years......

Women eh? Sheesh:rolleyes::D






hides in corner. Armed to the teeth....

You do realise I'll only be able to hold them off you for so long, don't you?

hussey

Wibbs wrote: »

Look it's real bloody simple. It boils down to manners. That's it. I don't care what feminist manifesto or macho male crapola you've read. It boils down to manners. If I ask someone, essentially a stranger, out for a meal I expect to pay for it. Simple as that. If she asks me out I would expect her to pay as well. Drinkies afterwards we would be going dutch.

Nail hammer head.

After reading this thread, I am of the firm opinion that if a female had posted this, she would be regarded as gold digger by a number of posters.

metrovelvet

hussey wrote: »

Nail hammer head.

After reading this thread, I am of the firm opinion that if a female had posted this, she would be regarded as gold digger by a number of posters.

Yes. And I find this odd since a date doesn't have to mean dinner dancing and drinks, it could just be an ice cream on a summer's day.

And Beruthhial, in response to your rather misogynistic response to OP, I doubt even a lady of the night would accept a measly icecream or meal as payment for services.

I do think this is cultural, however. It is pretty customary in the US for men to pick up the tab, date or not. It would be quite noticeable if he didn't.

SarahSassy

Wibbs wrote: »

Look it's real bloody simple. It boils down to manners. That's it. I don't care what feminist manifesto or macho male crapola you've read. It boils down to manners. If I ask someone, essentially a stranger, out for a meal I expect to pay for it. Simple as that. If she asks me out I would expect her to pay as well. Drinkies afterwards we would be going dutch.

+ 5,000

I feel uncomfortable having someone else pay for my meal, unless the meal was a present. And vice versa.
Unless I'm in america and it is a tax write off.

Wibbs

Sister Zaphora wrote: »

You do realise I'll only be able to hold them off you for so long, don't you?

Who says I want you to try bro...Sister.(damn nearly let the cat outa the bag there....):D

Wibbs

Moonbaby wrote: »

I feel uncomfortable having someone else pay for my meal, unless the meal was a present. And vice versa.

I more than agree for after the first meeting.

I just consider the first official rosemantic dinner date a present as it were. That said many of the best connections I've had were over a laid back couple of pints followed by a chipper. Half way decent bottle of Boly and real proper "oh jesus is that my heart?" chips.... Yum.....

thischarmingman

I think the guy was being cheap. He asked her out ergo he should offer to pay. Accusations of gold digging are harsh...it was the first date.

metrovelvet

thischarmingman wrote: »

I think the guy was being cheap. He asked her out ergo he should offer to pay. Accusations of gold digging are harsh...it was the first date.

Agree with this. I went out with a man who did not like to pick up the tab. I felt weird about this, so I asked 15 [American] men of different ages what they thought of this. The responses were UNANIMOUSLY "dump him. scum bag. lowest of the low. bottom of the barrell."

Well, low and behold, I got pregnant, he didn't want the child, didn't want to pay for the child, now only pays 200 pm in maintenance. Yep, CHEAP! Boy should I have listened to those guys.... the signs are there ladies.

Dave147

GinnyJo wrote: »

Bless.
it's not "PC crap" its called manners and equality.



So you've been on a date with me? Yeah at the end of every date I do my destinys child routine, with the moves and all :rolleyes:

.
Who's shouting? as for it being pathetic? Seriously, or are you just threatened by independant women?
Seriously we can't do right, if women want to be spoiled they're called gold diggers, and if they promote equality they're pathetic?
I'd rather be with someone who admired my independence and Vice versa rather then someone resorting to calling it pathetic.

You need to read my post properly instead of picking your own meaning of what I said and making it look bad. I'm all for equality and a womans independence, the pathetic thing is making a big song and dance about it, my woman is very independent and appreciates everything, I believe chivalry isn't dead its just rare because of some womens "independence".

Wibbs

OK but just as one swallow doesn't make a summer, so one knobend doesn't make a gender. Cheap or not.

I've seen a guy that ends his first dates with Sicilian violinists and fireworks all to the tune of that popular(at the time) music hall ditty "Why, my purse has not been touched". I also saw him walk away from his progeny, leaving behind a stuffed animal(not even a teddy) and a financial wasteland for the mother.

metrovelvet wrote:

so I asked 15 [American] men of different ages

Yes and I can see why in their context. America, good and bad, is a financial culture based on the survival of the fittest. "God helps those who help themselves" kinda thing. The American dream is largely predicated on that and the onus on success rather than failure and "non success". As such there is little governmental backup for those who slip through the cracks. So on a purely objective angle I can see where they're coming from as far as the financial side that their opinion refers to(though it does raise both social and gender arguments for another time).

Ginny

Dave147 wrote: »

You need to read my post properly instead of picking your own meaning of what I said and making it look bad. I'm all for equality and a womans independence, the pathetic thing is making a big song and dance about it, my woman is very independent and appreciates everything, I believe chivalry isn't dead its just rare because of some womens "independence".

:rolleyes:

idunnoutellme

thischarmingman wrote: »

I think the guy was being cheap. He asked her out ergo he should offer to pay. Accusations of gold digging are harsh...it was the first date.

Thank you! I'm the OP by the way (probably wouldnt know 10 pages later ha ha) but the guy text me and i said well what do you want to do for the date he said why dont we grab a bite to eat - now that kinda suggests a more expensive date and i figured he was bringin me out for food.

If he'd said lets go for a drink I would be offering to buy every second drink, but if he didnt offer to buy my first drink that would be a turn off aswell.

anyway when we said ye lets go for food i figured seein as he's bringin me out i'll get my hair done and get a taxi home...but of course I planned to offer to pay for half of the bill too...and i would have insisted on paying but i like to hear the guy offer to pay for it - seein as he did ask me out. but he didnt.

I was thinkin he probably didnt like me then to do that on a first date like - but he text me asking me out again....so I dunno what to make of it