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Cowboy Gardai

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    #182
    colliegG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭colliegG


    Round and round we go. . .

    I can tell you I don't draw the line at free coffee. I can't even see that line.

    I get free / cheap stuff all the time on account of my job. I have never had my integrity questioned not felt beholden to anyone.

    What's so hard to understand?

    Perhaps you think you could be bought for the price of a coffee??

    Are you afraid that if you were a Garda, you'd suddenly feel you must stop chasing a fleeing mugger to catch a shop lifter in the local Spar because on occassion they gave you free coffee??

    Don't paint 14000 members with your own shaky ethics.

    To put this entire pointless thread to rest once and for all. It's NOT NOW AND NEVER HAS BEEN up to the beat cop to choose what crime to deal with.

    Without a desired action occuring you can hardly call bribery!!!


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    #183
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    colliegG wrote: »
    My job has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not a Garda but I fit all of your conditions pretty closely.
    What, you dont think being you being a Garda Reserve comes into this conversation at all? Hows that for a nice demonstration of your impartiality reasoning. :cool:
    collieG wrote:
    Any abnormal looking midgets should have to stay indoors because they're creepy to look at while the ones who look normal but just shrunken should be displayed on street corners for the public amusement.
    Hmm again with the classic Garda PC response.
    Goodday to you.


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    #184
    colliegG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭colliegG


    Trust me Greebo my nine to five job is much more open to "bribery". ;)

    As for the other, yep that's meant as a joke. See the way I didn't use an alt.


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    #185
    colliegG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭colliegG


    And also not a GR yet. Wait till I am and I'll give you the definite Garda response.

    Still believe me when I tell you I'm not training for the reserve for the free coffee.


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    #186
    An Citeog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭An Citeog


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What, you dont think being you being a Garda Reserve comes into this conversation at all? Hows that for a nice demonstration of your impartiality reasoning. :cool:

    Hmm again with the classic Garda PC response.
    Goodday to you.

    Ok, that's a bit weird, in a stalkerish kind of way! :eek:

    Btw, I'm not a Guard or reserve, nor is any member of my family
    and I don't ever intend to become one.
    GreeBo wrote:
    I was nearly laughing (from all the witty replies you understand) too much to reply.
    Nearly.
    All your arguments for this practice can be countered with one simple word.
    "Why?"
    Why do they Garda get this special treatment?
    Giving discounts to paying consumers is all well and good but freebies to a specific group of public employees and expecting something in return to my mind is clearly wrong.

    If you accept free coffee because of what your powers are then what else do you accept, where do you draw the line?
    Coffee for Garda A is ok but brown envelopes to planners are not ok?
    Can you people not see that its an all or nothing scenario?
    They are either clean or they are dirty.
    Its not "only" a cup of coffee.

    Who said anything about expecting something in return? That's where you're just making assumptions. Maybe they have the utmost respect for the work the Gardaí do or have had positive dealings in the past with Gardaí. It's as true as any assumptions you've made so far.

    You've also neglected fact that prisoners need to be fed and in a busy station, that usually means a few trips to the local chipper or Chinese every day. It's the Guard's choice as to which one he goes to, so it makes sense
    to try and encourage their business. Or should the Gardaí also be impartial as to where they go for food? :rolleyes:


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    #187
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭source


    I have one point to make, that the op and all those who agree with him seem to be ignoring, and that is this:

    What the shop is getting in return for the free coffee is Gardai going into the shop in uniform to get food on their meal break, it means they have a high presence of police in the shop and that makes them less likely to be robbed, as it would become quite well known as a spot the gardai frequent regularly.

    So if the scumbags decide to stay away from these establishments, because lets face it scumbags and cops aren't exactly the best of friends, then the aforementioned scenario involving the centra and spar should never arise, cos as stupid and all as some scumbags can be they'd never be dumb enough to rob a place that's pretty much full of cops all the time.

    Oh and going off some of your arguments........lets have a little scenario.........lets say I am a garda.......lets say it's my birthday and a distant relation gives me a present.......do i now owe him/her if i catch them doing something illegal, or if they are the victims of a crime? NO! just the same way as I don't owe the shop anything for the coffee as all they expect is for you to return to their shop in future.

    Oh and op, you say that you don't want this thread to become a garda bashing thread.....then why start it off by calling it "Cowboy Gardai" ?? isn't that just unnecessarily fanning the flames, and provoking people into a certain type of response?


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    #188
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,861 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    foinse wrote: »
    Oh and going off some of your arguments........lets have a little scenario.........lets say I am a garda.......lets say it's my birthday and a distant relation gives me a present.......do i now owe him/her if i catch them doing something illegal, or if they are the victims of a crime? NO! just the same way as I don't owe the shop anything for the coffee as all they expect is for you to return to their shop in future.

    If the distant relation expected you to do more for them than for other relatives because of the gift then it's the same thing. Stupid analogy though really.


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    #189
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    foinse wrote: »
    What the shop is getting in return for the free coffee is Gardai going into the shop in uniform to get food on their meal break, it means they have a high presence of police in the shop and that makes them less likely to be robbed, as it would become quite well known as a spot the gardai frequent regularly.

    Exactly, so by giving the Gardai free coffee the shop is receiving extra protection... You proved the point you were trying to argue against there. The Gardai have more to do than hang around shops where they get free coffee. No criminal is ever going to say "Lets not rob shop X because the Gardai get free coffee there so are more likely to be there".


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    #190
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Hmmm I wonder what the niteclubs, etc want from the Gards that they are not already getting?

    the guards spend money inside too and usually when they go out together there is a good few of them too and they are notorious hard drinkers. Plus people that go to niteclubs in rural towns will see the off-duty gardai going in and are less likely to cause trouble. The people are the ones who will know the gardai and have dealt with them before.


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    #191
    ojewriej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭ojewriej


    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    Exactly, so by giving the Gardai free coffee the shop is receiving extra protection... You proved the point you were trying to argue against there. The Gardai have more to do than hang around shops where they get free coffee. No criminal is ever going to say "Lets not rob shop X because the Gardai get free coffee there so are more likely to be there".

    It's not extra protection. It's extra presence. And it's not like thay are hanging around the shops, thinking "Was it long enough since i got my last coffee or should I wait for another while?" They go there on their break, or when they are around I'd imagine.

    Guards don't promise anything in exchange, and the shopkeeps don't expect anything in exchange apart from presence and more business. That's all there is to it. And sometimes - i'd imagine quite often actually -it's just human compassion for someone who has to be on his feet and exposed to weather for 8 or more hours a day. And i know, you will say it's their job, they knew what they are signing up for. That's true, and that's why nobody is expecting you to feel sorry for them, but some people still do. I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as you know where to draw the line. And all you need to know where the line is is a little bit of cop on.


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    #192
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,861 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    ojewriej wrote: »
    I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as you know where to draw the line. And all you need to know where the line is is a little bit of cop on.

    Well where do you draw the line?


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    #193
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Well where do you draw the line?

    possibly through this thread??

    I think those against the gardai getting a free cup of coffee are clinging onto a barest of threads with this argument.

    What does a cup of coffee do you? It helps you stay alert or as an energy booster. That would help any garda who dragged him/herself out of bed at 5am to be in for 6am. Or for those that finished at 6am and are back in work at 2pm or indeed those who are working from 10pm to 6am.

    I know one garda who finishes a night shift at 6am travels an hour home, gets his kids ready for school,brings them to school, gets to bed at nearly 10am and is back up at 12pm to get ready for work at 2pm.

    He needs a cup of coffee!!!!!!!


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    #194
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,861 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    TheNog wrote: »
    possibly through this thread??

    I think those against the gardai getting a free cup of coffee are clinging onto a barest of threads with this argument.

    What does a cup of coffee do you? It helps you stay alert or as an energy booster. That would help any garda who dragged him/herself out of bed at 5am to be in for 6am. Or for those that finished at 6am and are back in work at 2pm or indeed those who are working from 10pm to 6am.

    I know one garda who finishes a night shift at 6am travels an hour home, gets his kids ready for school,brings them to school, gets to bed at nearly 10am and is back up at 12pm to get ready for work at 2pm.

    He needs a cup of coffee!!!!!!!


    My original post was not just to do with a cup of coffee though. I wouldn't go starting a thread just for that. I had noticed a trend where more than just one freebie every now and then was acquired. The power of the badge was being abused for more than just a single coffee. That's where I draw the line.


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    #195
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    And am i not mistaken but don't alot of "regular" shop go'ers get free coffee too? As in the fella who goes there every morning/day for his coffee, after a while he'll start getting free coffee's (if it's a halfway decent shop anyway!).

    And yes, Xavi, some Gardai do abuse it, but it's up to the shop owners to "draw the line". If you were offered something for free would you say no? Would you say no the second or third time? And yes, some Gardai do hear of a place where there's free x and free y and abuse that, but again, thats up to the shops to report/stop this. You can even take action if you want. Take a note of the time, the shop and the shoulder number of the "offending" Garda. Report it if you want.


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    #196
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    TheNog wrote: »
    What does a cup of coffee do you? It helps you stay alert or as an energy booster. That would help any garda who dragged him/herself out of bed at 5am to be in for 6am. Or for those that finished at 6am and are back in work at 2pm or indeed those who are working from 10pm to 6am.

    I know one garda who finishes a night shift at 6am travels an hour home, gets his kids ready for school,brings them to school, gets to bed at nearly 10am and is back up at 12pm to get ready for work at 2pm.



    Wow.
    Could you have missed the point any more?
    Let me try to help.
    Its got nothing to do with it being coffee.
    It could be tea or a bottle of water.
    Still with me?

    Who gives a flying banana that the guard is tired from working late, I work late and am tired but dont expect freebies.

    TheNog wrote: »
    He needs a cup of coffee!!!!!!!
    Then he should pay for the damn coffee or get a new job.


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    #197
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    My original post was not just to do with a cup of coffee though. I wouldn't go starting a thread just for that. I had noticed a trend where more than just one freebie every now and then was acquired. The power of the badge was being abused for more than just a single coffee. That's where I draw the line.

    But you haven't shown us where this abuse has taken place?

    Like I said before the Gardai are encouraged to use the badge for public transport, at toll plazas and the bouncers at a niteclub know that off-duty gardai will help them out if serious trouble arises.

    Where is the abuse???


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    #198
    Xavi6
    Registered Users Posts: 40,861 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    TheNog wrote: »
    But you haven't shown us where this abuse has taken place?

    So you want photographic evidence before you believe it?
    TheNog wrote: »
    Like I said before the Gardai are encouraged to use the badge for public transport, at toll plazas and the bouncers at a niteclub know that off-duty gardai will help them out if serious trouble arises.

    Where is the abuse???

    Public transport - I doubt it was intended to be used for a free piss up down the country as is the case in the incident I mentioned.

    Toll Plazas - Why should they use them free if they're not working? They should be treated as civilians if they're off duty.

    Nightclubs - So what you're saying is it's ok for a guard to have a few AND get in for free in case a row breaks out? Drink + guards is going to equal serious power trip. They're either there to help or again they are civilians and treated as such.


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    #199
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    TheNog wrote: »
    Like I said before the Gardai are encouraged to use the badge for public
    transport,
    Who encourages them?
    TheNog wrote: »
    the bouncers at a niteclub know that off-duty gardai will help them out if serious trouble arises.
    And the legality of being arrested/assaulted by a drunk Garda is what now?


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    #200
    Cokehead Mother
    Closed Accounts Posts: 773 ✭✭✭Cokehead Mother


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    So you want photographic evidence before you believe it?



    Public transport - I doubt it was intended to be used for a free piss up down the country as is the case in the incident I mentioned.

    Toll Plazas - Why should they use them free if they're not working? They should be treated as civilians if they're off duty.

    Nightclubs - So what you're saying is it's ok for a guard to have a few AND get in for free in case a row breaks out? Drink + guards is going to equal serious power trip. They're either there to help or again they are civilians and treated as such.

    Look MOVE ON. He has. You're better than this, I'm gonna take you out and you're going to screw some stranger on the LUAS.

    You and Melvin are history, why can't you just accept it?


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    #201
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    So you want photographic evidence before you believe it?



    Public transport - I doubt it was intended to be used for a free piss up down the country as is the case in the incident I mentioned.

    Toll Plazas - Why should they use them free if they're not working? They should be treated as civilians if they're off duty.

    Nightclubs - So what you're saying is it's ok for a guard to have a few AND get in for free in case a row breaks out? Drink + guards is going to equal serious power trip. They're either there to help or again they are civilians and treated as such.

    I don't require photographic evidence

    Public Transport - Gardai are encouraged to flash the badge wehn using Public transport this usually happens when they are off duty. Ever seen an on duty garda using public transport? Ever heard of an off duty garda using public transport to catch criminals? Garda: "I think I will get on the bus to see if there are any crimes committed" Even when a garda is technically off duty they are still expected to be on duty if anything happens where a perpatrator can be caught there and then. Come on use your head for gods sake

    Toll Plazas: Again the money or at least most of it goes straight to the government hence free toll for government employees

    Niteclubs - Serious power trips can be attributed to some guards, not all. Guards are not civilians once they join, no matter when on or off duty


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    #202
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Who encourages them?

    And the legality of being arrested/assaulted by a drunk Garda is what now?

    I have already said it, the Public transport companies encourage the guards to flash the badge.

    who said anything about drunk gardai arresting/assaulting anyone. An off duty garda would be pretty stupid to arrest anyone when they are drunk!! I'm talking about helping bouncers to restrain a violent person or to tip off bouncers about potential trouble or drug taking on the premises.


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    #203
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    TheNog wrote: »
    Public Transport - Gardai are encouraged to flash the badge wehn using Public transport this usually happens when they are off duty. Ever seen an on duty garda using public transport?
    Yep, Monday morning. A Garda hopped onto the 15 in Templeogue and hopped off again in Terenure.


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    #204
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    TheNog wrote: »
    I have already said it, the Public transport companies encourage the guards to flash the badge.
    where have you already said this and how do you back it up?
    TheNog wrote: »
    who said anything about drunk gardai arresting/assaulting anyone. An off duty garda would be pretty stupid to arrest anyone when they are drunk!! I'm talking about helping bouncers to restrain a violent person
    If a Garda is off duty and assists some bouncer in restraining me then he is assaulting me. Who is he to restrain me?
    A bouncer cant drink and restrain people so why can a Garda?
    If some drunk stranger in a club who is not a doorman restrains me he is likely to find me defending myself by hitting him in the nuts. If he happens to be a Garda too bad.


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    #205
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If some drunk stranger in a club who is not a doorman restrains me he is likely to find me defending myself by hitting him in the nuts. If he happens to be a Garda too bad.

    Aye, too bad for you, cuz you'll probably then find yourself in court on "assaulting an off-duty Garda".

    Depending on the situation, an off duty Garda is expected to help bouncers if they cannot handle the situation themselves. Helping a bouncer is something anyone can do. It's different if someone "helps" a bouncer by jumping in and hitting everything that moves, thats not assissting.

    Then again, did it not happen there recently where a fight came out of a nightclub onto the street, and next thing those fighting turned on the Gardai and the bouncers just stood back and watched this happen outside their door (yes, on the footpath outside the door, which they're supposed to look after).


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    #206
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Aye, too bad for you, cuz you'll probably then find yourself in court on "assaulting an off-duty Garda".
    I think you will find that I was defending myself from a drunk person who was assulting me.
    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Depending on the situation, an off duty Garda is expected to help bouncers if they cannot handle the situation themselves. Helping a bouncer is something anyone can do. It's different if someone "helps" a bouncer by jumping in and hitting everything that moves, thats not assissting.
    Even if that Garda is drunk?
    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Then again, did it not happen there recently where a fight came out of a nightclub onto the street, and next thing those fighting turned on the Gardai and the bouncers just stood back and watched this happen outside their door (yes, on the footpath outside the door, which they're supposed to look after).
    Maybe those Garda handnt been giving out Free Parking tickets to the Bouncers and so hadnt built up a reciprocal relationship.

    You see thats the problem. How do you all feel about a Parking Warden ignoring an illegally parked car because they know the owner of the local Freebie shop owns it? Thats the sort of crap you get into when you decide that "some" freebies are ok.


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    #207
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    GreeBo wrote: »
    where have you already said this and how do you back it up?


    If a Garda is off duty and assists some bouncer in restraining me then he is assaulting me. Who is he to restrain me?
    A bouncer cant drink and restrain people so why can a Garda?
    If some drunk stranger in a club who is not a doorman restrains me he is likely to find me defending myself by hitting him in the nuts. If he happens to be a Garda too bad.

    I have said it already in this thread a few pages back and student guards are told it in the college.

    If you are being violent and bouncers and an off duty garda restrains you it is not assualt.


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    #208
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I think you will find that I was defending myself from a drunk person who was assulting me.

    Didn't say he was drunk at this stage.
    Even if that Garda is drunk

    No, if you're drunk, you shouldn't. That would be idiotic as you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. God knows, if i was an off-duty Garda and i was drunk, the last thing i'd want is to work...
    Maybe those Garda handnt been giving out Free Parking tickets to the Bouncers and so hadnt built up a reciprocal relationship.

    Shouldn't make a difference, it was technically still on the premesis of the club, ie: the foothpath right outside the door to the premesis. The bouncers neglected their duties, so i wouldn't be surprised to see some action being taken against them.
    You see thats the problem. How do you all feel about a Parking Warden ignoring an illegally parked car because they know the owner of the local Freebie shop owns it? Thats the sort of crap you get into when you decide that "some" freebies are ok.

    I don't think the wardens should give freebies to anyone, they don't do much else (have you ever seen a warden regulate traffic?) so they shouldn't let illegally parked cars off. If i saw a warden walk past an illegally parked car i'd say it to him. If he didn't do anything about it i'd report him.


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    #209
    OctavarIan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭OctavarIan


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I think you will find that I was defending myself from a drunk person who was assulting me.

    Off-duty garda =/= ordinary civilian

    Off-duty garda = garda nonetheless

    Besides a drunk garda isn't going to assault you, neither are bouncers. Restraining yes, assaulting no. If you are fighting against them then of course they will force you into a position where you can be restrained, but that is not assault.

    A garda who is blind drunk outside a nightclub attacking people... Those kind of people don't get to be gardai in the first place.


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    #210
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,818 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    OctavarIan wrote:
    Those kind of people don't get to be gardai in the first place.

    Unless you play for senior football/hurling teams...


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    #211
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Didn't say he was drunk at this stage.
    Ok a Garda who is under the influence of alcohol then.
    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    No, if you're drunk, you shouldn't. That would be idiotic as you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
    Exactly, they are either Garda or they are not.


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