Cowboy Gardai

Potential-Monke

GreeBo wrote: »

Ok a Garda who is under the influence of alcohol then.

This counts as more or less the same thing in my book.

Exactly, they are either Garda or they are not.

THats the thing though, it's driven into them that no matter what, you are a Garda, on-duty, off-duty, on the lash, on holidays, etc. I can see that changing soon though, cuz i know alot of people who wouldn't mind being a Garda except for that reason. It kinda sucks really!!!

GreeBo

OctavarIan wrote: »

Off-duty garda =/= ordinary civilian

Off-duty garda = garda nonetheless

Besides a drunk garda isn't going to assault you, neither are bouncers. Restraining yes, assaulting no. If you are fighting against them then of course they will force you into a position where you can be restrained, but that is not assault.

So some guy who has been drinking comes up behing you in a club and forces your arm behind your back. He looks just the same as everybody else in there and for all you know he is. Are you honestly telling me that you do nothing in case he is an off-duty Garda?
I dont see how its not assault for someone who is under the influence of alcohol to do anything to me. In the same way that a drunk surgeon shouldnt operate on someone.
You cant flash your badge at the door and then suddenly stop being a Garda when you get inside. If you want to act like a Garda then act like one. If you want to be a regular punter then pay in like regular punters do.

GreeBo

Potential-Monke wrote: »

This counts as more or less the same thing in my book.

You lightweight

Potential-Monke wrote: »

THats the thing though, it's driven into them that no matter what, you are a Garda, on-duty, off-duty, on the lash, on holidays, etc.

But if you dont say "Stop Police" or the equivalent and you dont look like a Garda (uniform, etc) then you cannot expect people to treat you like one.

Potential-Monke

I am indeed a lightweight, but if i had dealings with a Garda i wouldn't want him to have consumed any alcohol. Like i woulnd't want anyone i deal with business wise to ahve alcohol consumed.

True though, alot of the off-duty Gardai who get involved do somehow forget to mention they are indeed Gardai.

GreeBo

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I am indeed a lightweight, but if i had dealings with a Garda i wouldn't want him to have consumed any alcohol.

Actually I would, because your case would be thrown out asap.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Like i woulnd't want anyone i deal with business wise to ahve alcohol consumed.

Unfortunately you are not in the majority there I believe.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

True though, alot of the off-duty Gardai who get involved do somehow forget to mention they are indeed Gardai.

And that makes you an instant civvy in my book.

Potential-Monke

I actually meant more as in i have a complaint to give to the Garda... But in your situation, yes, alcohol + Garda = caseless!!!

OctavarIan

GreeBo wrote: »

So some guy who has been drinking comes up behing you in a club and forces your arm behind your back. He looks just the same as everybody else in there and for all you know he is. Are you honestly telling me that you do nothing in case he is an off-duty Garda?

Why would an off-duty Garda do that though? If they wanted you for whatever reason then all they have to do is flash the badge. A tipsy garda on a power trip would make it quite clear he's a garda. If you resist arrest, well they're entitled to use force on you then. You're making up fantasy situations to suit yourself here. If you can show me where this has happened before though then I'm all ears.

As for my answer, if a stranger did that to me then I would definately retaliate.

eroo

GreeBo,your posts are varied and exaggerated..if shop A and shop B are being attacked,Gard's who use shop A and get free coffee aren't going to choose which one to respond to...dispatch will depending on which is more serious

Some of the posters here are making my blood boil every time I log on...you just cannot accept the fact that Gards are not indebted to a shop just because they get free coffee..it is just a way of attracting business!
This thread is petty,as if we have never taken something for free..whether it be a sample sausage from Dunnes or a pint from a barman..the point is we just think ''ah,that was nice,i'll go there again''.It does not mean your going to start working for them on the side..
They are not abusing there power,they do not ask for free coffee's...they are given them..also,bouncers will let Gards in so if theres trouble they can get proper help quickly..

As regards this thread.....YAWN..

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's unbelievable. Spar down from the station give him and his buddies free coffee in exchange for extra vigilence, he never pays into a nightclub,

the wages he's on he wouldn't be able to afford to shop in the spar or go to nightclubs if he had to pay. all the perks going won't make up for the wages.

Xavi6

ntlbell wrote: »

the wages he's on he wouldn't be able to afford to shop in the spar or go to nightclubs if he had to pay. all the perks going won't make up for the wages.

Ah here that's the lamest excuse yet. If you can't afford to go Spar bring a packed lunch like everyone else ffs. You'd swear gardai were in the minimum wage bracket. Sure the majority of the young ones live at home anyway and have plenty of disposable income.

GreeBo

OctavarIan wrote: »

Why would an off-duty Garda do that though? If they wanted you for whatever reason then all they have to do is flash the badge. A tipsy garda on a power trip would make it quite clear he's a garda. If you resist arrest, well they're entitled to use force on you then.

Say Im having a heated conversation with a bouncer and this cop, who has been drinking, decides to wade in.

OctavarIan wrote: »

You're making up fantasy situations to suit yourself here.

Making up = Fantasy.
Not being omnipotent or omnicogniscent Im afraid Im forced to make up scenarios to illustrate a point.

OctavarIan wrote: »

As for my answer, if a stranger did that to me then I would definately retaliate.

Well a cop who hasnt announced himself as such is a stranger in my book.

GreeBo

eroo wrote: »

GreeBo,your posts are varied and exaggerated..if shop A and shop B are being attacked,Gard's who use shop A and get free coffee aren't going to choose which one to respond to...dispatch will depending on which is more serious

Oh, so you are stating that the dispatch people dont get these "perks"?

eroo wrote: »

eroo wrote: »

Some of the posters here are making my blood boil every time I log on...you just cannot accept the fact that Gards are not indebted to a shop just because they get free coffee..it is just a way of attracting business!

And you cannot accept that some Gardaí are indebted to such shops.

eroo wrote: »

This thread is petty,as if we have never taken something for free..whether it be a sample sausage from Dunnes or a pint from a barman..the point is we just think ''ah,that was nice,i'll go there again''

The great "we" are not public servants charged with upholding the law, being above reproach and clean as a whistle.

I'm assuming all you bashing myself and the OP have no issues with Bertie's brown envelopes or the Mahon Tribunal?
Or is that somehow magically different?

Sonnenblumen

GreeBo wrote: »

Wow.
Could you have missed the point any more?
Let me try to help.
Its got nothing to do with it being coffee.
It could be tea or a bottle of water.
Still with me?

Who gives a flying banana that the guard is tired from working late, I work late and am tired but dont expect freebies.



Then he should pay for the damn coffee or get a new job.

Is this a case of the nose being bigger than the brain?

il gatto

It happens all the time. I work in two nightclubs and anyone who is recognised to be a Guard gets in free. Fair enough you might say. It's up to the club owner. That doesn't explain the ones not recognised flashing their badge. Even one only in town for a jolly. I've seen plenty of Guards up from Galway and Dublin do it. The club owner could stop them, but that's not how the country works. You start charging and just watch how quick the Guards clamp down on you. Even about things that you're not responsible for. Fights outside the chipper two street away and somebody gets glassed. Amazing how the person doing the glassing has been traced back to your premises. They have the power to destroy people if they go about it the right way. Nothing to obvious, but enought to make life extremely difficult. Hence the freebies. Keep them sweet.
And by the way, they receive more than enough in wages. When your been beaten to a pulp and the Guard down the street pretends he's seen nothing, you'll agree. Nearly everyone I know this has happened to, has seen happen or knows someone it has happened to. And none of them are even remotely scumbags.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well wouldn't it be good for the club to have a few guards wandering around, just in case?

il gatto

They cause just as much trouble as the rest of the punters, and when they do have to leave, my God will you know about it. Badge out, quote the law, refusing to leave, agressive when it all goes pear shaped. One guy bearly out of Templemore got punched one night. When the guy who did it was being put out, he was asked why. He said he spilt a guys drink, apologised, offered to buy him another. The guy said to watch where he was going, that he was a guard and not to dare mess with him. The guy apologised again and then young Guard whipped the badge out and started shouting at him. At that point the customer lost it and hit him. Security let him back in:D
The detctives tend to behave, but the under thirties common or garden variety are ar$eholes sometimes.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well get their badge number and report them.

il gatto

I'll refer you to my second to last post. Let sleeping dogs lie, never poke a hornets nest with a stick and all that. I don't like the way they carry on. I don't intend to make my life more difficult by waging a crusade against them. The hassles are many, the rewards few. The moral highground wouldn't be high enough to save my from the wrath of a scorned Guard:D

ojewriej

Xavi6 wrote: »

Well where do you draw the line?

It's quite easy i think, common sense is needed though.

Cup of coffee or even a sandwich sometimes when they are around that's ok in my book.

Going to the shop on purpose to do shopping and getting it free is a no no though. Basically as long as they are just things of little monetary value it's fine.

Look, I see what you are saying, I how a cup of coffee is a gratuity and can in theory can be considered a bribe. But come on - do you seriously think that anyone would be bribed by a cup off coffee?

This is just the way things work, and it's like that all over the world. Every job has it perks, and little freebies is one of Guard's perks. I know they knew what they signed up for, but it is a tough job and I think they deserve a break every once in a while.

Lpfsox

TheNog wrote: »

I don't require photographic evidence

Toll Plazas: Again the money or at least most of it goes straight to the government hence free toll for government employees

Sorry Nog, you have this one wrong. Government employees have to pay to use the toll like everybody else (well I do, as do all my colleagues).

Kernel

Xavi6 wrote: »

I've seen it with my own eyes, hence my opening post. I don't go around with hidden cameras but I can asure you I've seen it happen. Others have too so it's far from a 'ridiculous claim'.

No, you've seen free cups of tea and coffee given out. The ridiculous claim part is in relation to the 'extra protection' claim you've made. I don't believe that for a second, and in fact it is nothing more than far fetched speculation (shop A and shop B being robbed at the same time etc...). It is a ridiculous claim, since you're saying extra protection can be obtained for a few cups of coffee.... Nescafe ain't that expensive chaps.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Of course I have a biased view, I've seen something I don't agree with!

No, you have a biased view because of your numerous unproven assumptions about Garda motives. I've already explained the good business acumen behind such freebies, so far that has all been ignored by yourself and the hillariously illogical Greebo.

david1two3

Kernel wrote: »

No, you've seen free cups of tea and coffee given out. The ridiculous claim part is in relation to the 'extra protection' claim you've made. I don't believe that for a second, and in fact it is nothing more than far fetched speculation (shop A and shop B being robbed at the same time etc...). It is a ridiculous claim, since you're saying extra protection can be obtained for a few cups of coffee.... Nescafe ain't that expensive chaps.



No, you have a biased view because of your numerous unproven assumptions about Garda motives. I've already explained the good business acumen behind such freebies, so far that has all been ignored by yourself and the hillariously illogical Greebo.

Shop A and Shop B being robbed at the same time.Cullens at the Angel in Islington was robbed by two men in 1993 and as they were making their getaway they were ambushed and shot by a five man gang who had robbed M&S across the road 8 yards away.One was shot at the wheel ,the other one I cant remember. All they found in M&S were countless empty tills and on leaving saw the other two in the middle of their nights work.I was walking past M&S and saw what appeared to be five mini cab drivers standing in the recessed doorway, thinking they would say "cab mate" I was surprised , when they emerged from the doorway as one I looked in their eyes which had murder written all over them. They marched as one across the road and I knew it was the business end of something big. I hit the ground and pretended to tie my shoe lace, glimpsed around and then lost what is normally a considerable amount of bottle. I knew I would die if I said a word and went straight home 300 metres away. I dont know if I was scared, I think I just wanted to live some more. Its all in the eyes aswell as seing five guys move as one at ten or so in the evening. I may have the year wrong but I know what I saw so telling Xavia6 he is far fetched is now a redundant accusation as my story,true as it is is even further down the fetched cul de sac.If it can happen it will happen and Im afraid its happening to you now so far fetchedness as a tool for ruining someone elses argument is now a proven liability and I am thrilled to be able to resurect a believe it or not story from the early nineties.Hilariously illogical, snap.Crackle and poop

GreeBo

Kernel wrote: »

No, you've seen free cups of tea and coffee given out. The ridiculous claim part is in relation to the 'extra protection' claim you've made. I don't believe that for a second, and in fact it is nothing more than far fetched speculation (shop A and shop B being robbed at the same time etc...). It is a ridiculous claim, since you're saying extra protection can be obtained for a few cups of coffee....

He has also seen free niteclub entry and free intercity travel.
So two shops dont ever get robbed at the same time? What one shop town do you live in mate?

Kernel wrote: »

Nescafe ain't that expensive chaps.

Ah ok, so if it was something more expensive you see that it could buy extra protection? 2 cups of coffee day is at least €600 tax free. Id love you to let me know what figure you *do* have problems with.

Kernel wrote: »

No, you have a biased view because of your numerous unproven assumptions about Garda motives. I've already explained the good business acumen behind such freebies, so far that has all been ignored by yourself

Good business acumen? Thats hilarious. Its good business acumen for a developer to give the planning board free holidays, that doesnt make it right.
Im amazed that you cannot see how joe soap getting freebies is not the same as a public servant in the course of their duties getting freebies.

Kernel wrote: »

and the hillariously illogical Greebo.

show me the flaw or shut up really.:cool:

colliegG

Bribery: The offering of money or other incentives to persuade somebody to do something, especially something dishonest or illegal

Gift: Something that is given to somebody, usually in order to provide pleasure or to show gratitude.

Where do you think a cup of coffee fits in??

Also if the Gardai were actively grafting shops in their district do you think they'd settle for a coffee? If, as some claim, their professional ethics and morals were for sale do you not think they might be a tad dearer?

Never knew there was such jealousy towards the Gardai over their coffee.

Also there would NEVER be an investigation into removing a nite clubs licence over a member being refused entry. (There's not enough resources)

What an obsessive, misinformed, paronoid crock of sh1t this thread is.

GreeBo

colliegG wrote: »

Bribery: The offering of money or other incentives to persuade somebody to do something, especially something dishonest or illegal

Gift: Something that is given to somebody, usually in order to provide pleasure or to show gratitude.

Where do you think a cup of coffee fits in??

Also if the Gardai were actively grafting shops in their district do you think they'd settle for a coffee? If, as some claim, their professional ethics and morals were for sale do you not think they might be a tad dearer?

Ah the old daily gift "Happy day" if you will...
Im pretty sure that you are the first to mention that the Gardai are actively grafting, so keep your words in your own mouth please.
There is a difference between actively going out on a protection racket and accepting items for free during the course of your duty that *might* influence your decisions/thoughts on the job. What they have in common is that they are both wrong.
You see its the might in the above sentence thats the issue. Im not saying that Gardai who accept free coffee = corrupt Gardai.
Im saying the possibility exists and that if you take freebies you are leaving yourself open to being accussed of corruption. Thats why any large company will have a poicy of not accepting gifts from customers over a certain value.
We call it ethics.

colliegG wrote: »

Also there would NEVER be an investigation into removing a nite clubs licence over a member being refused entry. (There's not enough resources)

Im sure they can find lots of Garda Reserves to take up the baton. :rolleyes:

colliegG wrote: »

What an obsessive, misinformed, paronoid crock of sh1t this thread is.

What a "blinded by your own beliefs" person you are.

Xavi6

Kernel wrote: »

No, you've seen free cups of tea and coffee given out. The ridiculous claim part is in relation to the 'extra protection' claim you've made. I don't believe that for a second, and in fact it is nothing more than far fetched speculation (shop A and shop B being robbed at the same time etc...). It is a ridiculous claim, since you're saying extra protection can be obtained for a few cups of coffee.... Nescafe ain't that expensive chaps.

It's nice that you only focus on one of the points I made :rolleyes:

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah here that's the lamest excuse yet. If you can't afford to go Spar bring a packed lunch like everyone else ffs. You'd swear gardai were in the minimum wage bracket. Sure the majority of the young ones live at home anyway and have plenty of disposable income.

huh? who's making excuses? i'm not a guard and really couldn't give a fu*k what they do.

they don't walk into spar's and "demand" it for free or anywhere else.

I was pointing out with all the perks it's still a ****ty job with the crap you put up with and the crappy wages that the perks don't do much for it.


if you think getting a free cup of brutal coffee in a garage in finglas is a good perk i wouldn't like to know where you work

GreeBo

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's nice that you only focus on one of the points I made :rolleyes:

There is a certain coffee fixation alright...

Xavi6

ntlbell wrote: »

if you think getting a free cup of brutal coffee in a garage in finglas is a good perk i wouldn't like to know where you work

Getting free coffee isn't the greatest perk of all time but when you couple it with free public transport, free admission to night clubs etc it becomes a different story.

colliegG

GreeBo wrote: »

Im pretty sure that you are the first to mention that the Gardai are actively grafting, so keep your words in your own mouth please.

I'm pretty sure I said "if". You do realise that that in this instance it indicates a question and not a statement of fact??

Anyway, I'm not blinded by my beliefs. Nor am I blinded by preconceptions, nor misconceptions.

What I'm trying to do is point out that I often receive free stuff from local businesses and give nothing in return. I'm sure the Gardai are quite capable of getting the same without having to respond in kind. As is anyone.

Today I've received two bottles of wine as "corporate gifts" for Christmas. Frankly it has done nothing to sway me towards a particular company etc.

Also as was pointed out by Greebo's "detective" work I am a member of the Garda Reserve. I don't believe this is something I should be ashamed of. In fact I'm quite proud of it. That is why I can tell you that their procedures etc severely limit their ability to favour a business above the other. All calls are taken by a central processing station and doled out from there.

I have no problem with the Gardai getting free goods or services. Most people, if they're honest, can get something similar. However I would be disgusted if I thought it was to achieve a certain outcome. i.e. protection etc. I just don't believe it is.

Policing is meant to be about establishing relationships in the community. I think it's great that Gardai get offered a coffee or something similar in what I consider to be a selfless gesture by a business. It means that's happening.

Sometimes the elderly in the area will invite a Garda on the beat in for a cup of tea, or whilst responding to a call they may get offered a drink say. I don't believe a Garda should have to refuse it just because some people, who know nothing about the job, lack faith in them.

Also I would think that if any of the naysayers were ever being robbed on a train say, they'll be bloody glad to see the guy who got on for free come to their rescue. Off duty cops, unpaid at the time, often intervene in events that they could easily walk past.

That's why I couldn't care less about whatever freebies they get. There is thousands of Gardai and I think it's idiculous they are all treated as semi-criminals.

The times that I see evidence of corruption I jump on the bandwagon and trust me, I bay with the loudest.

Oh btw Greebo there's a fairly stringent policy regarding gifts in the Gardai. As you said it involves items over a certain amount. Just like my corporate gifts, individually they are below the limit imposed by my company and like most places we don't count them collectively. Therefore they're mine. I think coffee, niteclub entrance would be all below too. It's funny, the Gardai call it Ethics too.