Cowboy Gardai

Cokehead Mother · 12-12-2007 8:16am

This thread is way off topic. It's not about gardaí, it was never about gardaí.

This is about the OP's relationship with their friend.

Alex (OP) and Melvin (Their friend - and wtf @ the name) have known each other since they were 5, and carnally since they were 14.

Recently, the relationship is being strained by Melvin's career and the OP is using this thread as a means to call Melvin a bastard.

My advice to the OP is to move on, gurl. He AIN'T gonna change.

Xavi6 · 12-12-2007 9:52am

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

This thread is way off topic. It's not about gardaí, it was never about gardaí.

This is about the OP's relationship with their friend.

Alex (OP) and Melvin (Their friend - and wtf @ the name) have known each other since they were 5, and carnally since they were 14.

Recently, the relationship is being strained by Melvin's career and the OP is using this thread as a means to call Melvin a bastard.

My advice to the OP is to move on, gurl. He AIN'T gonna change.

I'm sorry but wtf?

Xavi6 · 12-12-2007 9:55am

Kernel wrote: »

Do you have any evidence for this ridiculous claim?

I've seen it with my own eyes, hence my opening post. I don't go around with hidden cameras but I can asure you I've seen it happen. Others have too so it's far from a 'ridiculous claim'.

Kernel wrote: »

You've ignored all the points raised here and are still proceeding with your clearly biased view on the subject.

Of course I have a biased view, I've seen something I don't agree with!

Mutz · 12-12-2007 10:39am

Whats the fuss? Its a bit of water and coffe granules. COFFEE! OMFG its a BRIBE! Who's got their camera phone!

LMFAO! You guys have little to be moaning about! Isn't great that all we have to give out about is getting into discos free and getting the odd free cup of coffee!

Imagine living in Russia or the Ukraine where if you look at a cop sideways you get a full blown beating!

Off to the ombudsman with you and see what reaction you get! :rolleyes:

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 12:09pm

Mutz wrote: »

Whats the fuss? Its a bit of water and coffe granules. COFFEE! OMFG its a BRIBE! Who's got their camera phone!

so when does it become a problem? 4 Coffees , 6 donuts and a few sandwiches?

Mutz wrote: »

LMFAO! You guys have little to be moaning about! Isn't great that all we have to give out about is getting into discos free and getting the odd free cup of coffee!

Yeah, coz as long as we are not the worst, sure then its fine.
Way to reach for the stars dude. :rolleyes:

colliegG · 12-12-2007 12:47pm

Where I work I'm entitled to :

A 10% discount in a gift shop across the road. (On production of ID)
A cheap haircut in a barber nearby. (On production of ID)
Cheaper taxis if called from work.
Very cheap parking in a nearby car park. (On production of ID)
A 10% discount on sandwiches in a place on Dame St. (On production of ID)
A varying discount from a local bakery.
Cheap dinner in a place in Temple Bar. (On production of ID)
Cheaper access to certain swimming pools, gyms etc. (On production of ID)
A well known computer firm is apparently introducing a discount for staff home PCs.
Several pubs and niteclubs around here run promotions specifically aimed at the people working for my company. These can involve free entrance or cheaper drinks.

I'm not a Garda.

Not one of these perks is authorised or funded by our management. They are completely unsolicited and are usually passed around by word of mouth. They're all very real and used by lots of my colleagues every day.

They're perks that clever local company's employ to attract people from my company to their business. It probably has something to do with the numbers of us flooding onto the street during the working day. Professionally I have never felt obliged to do anything in return for these businesses except use them more frequently. In fact a sandwich shop beside us used to close when our office was shut at weekends. That's how much our business was worth to them.

A good service industry needs to adapt to it's surroundings. If that involves perks for local businesses then that's what will happen. Anyone who'd begrudge a Garda a cup of coffee must never have heard of corporate gifts!

Lola123 · 12-12-2007 12:48pm

Mutz wrote: »

Whats the fuss? Its a bit of water and coffe granules. COFFEE! OMFG its a BRIBE! Who's got their camera phone!

LMFAO! You guys have little to be moaning about! Isn't great that all we have to give out about is getting into discos free and getting the odd free cup of coffee!

Imagine living in Russia or the Ukraine where if you look at a cop sideways you get a full blown beating!

Off to the ombudsman with you and see what reaction you get! :rolleyes:

QFT.... In russia the cops will take get you to pay up or they'll take your passport off you. And the funny thing is.... legally you have to carry yur passport around with you.

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 1:08pm

colliegG wrote: »

Where I work I'm entitled to :

A 10% discount in a gift shop across the road. (On production of ID)
A cheap haircut in a barber nearby. (On production of ID)
Cheaper taxis if called from work.
Very cheap parking in a nearby car park. (On production of ID)
A 10% discount on sandwiches in a place on Dame St. (On production of ID)
A varying discount from a local bakery.
Cheap dinner in a place in Temple Bar. (On production of ID)
Cheaper access to certain swimming pools, gyms etc. (On production of ID)
A well known computer firm is apparently introducing a discount for staff home PCs.
Several pubs and niteclubs around here run promotions specifically aimed at the people working for my company. These can involve free entrance or cheaper drinks.

I'm not a Garda.

Not one of these perks is authorised or funded by our management. They are completely unsolicited and are usually passed around by word of mouth. They're all very real and used by lots of my colleagues every day.

They're perks that clever local company's employ to attract people from my company to their business. It probably has something to do with the numbers of us flooding onto the street during the working day. Professionally I have never felt obliged to do anything in return for these businesses except use them more frequently. In fact a sandwich shop beside us used to close when our office was shut at weekends. That's how much our business was worth to them.

A good service industry needs to adapt to it's surroundings. If that involves perks for local businesses then that's what will happen. Anyone who'd begrudge a Garda a cup of coffee must never have heard of corporate gifts!

So what you are saying is that these shops give you all these "perks" because they want something from you, i.e your money.
Hmmm I wonder what the niteclubs, etc want from the Gards that they are not already getting?

Also, (unless Im terribly mistaken) these shops are not:
1) paying your wages
2) organsed by the state
and you are not
1) a public body
2) in a position of power

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 1:09pm

Lola123 wrote: »

QFT.... In russia the cops will take get you to pay up or they'll take your passport off you. And the funny thing is.... legally you have to carry yur passport around with you.

I dunno what these Russians are complaining about, in Nigeria the cops cut your arms off.

See how pointless that argument is?:rolleyes:

colliegG · 12-12-2007 1:37pm

GreeBo wrote: »

So what you are saying is that these shops give you all these "perks" because they want something from you, i.e your money.
Hmmm I wonder what the niteclubs, etc want from the Gards that they are not already getting?

Also, (unless Im terribly mistaken) these shops are not:
1) paying your wages
2) organsed by the state
and you are not
1) a public body
2) in a position of power

Em actually you'd be mistaken about most of your assumptions but that's not the point.

The point is if I get a discount from a service provider I'm more likely to use that service provider again. I'm also more likely to mention my good experience with that service provider to other people such as friends or family. They will go there and if their experience is also positive, albiet without the discount, they too will mention it to other people and on and on. Thats what is happening with the gardai. It's positive reinforcement to advertise through word of mouth. It really is very basic marketing.

That's why you often see newspapers being discounted or indeed being handed out for free. (not the actual free ones i.e. Herald AM)

If you increase the pool that you offer "perks" to you increase the chance of other non-discounted business arriving. The fact that the Gardai repeatedly use the same service providers to buy non discounted items shows how effective this tactic is.

An Citeog · 12-12-2007 1:44pm

GreeBo wrote: »

So what you are saying is that these shops give you all these "perks" because they want something from you, i.e your money.
Hmmm I wonder what the niteclubs, etc want from the Gards that they are not already getting?

Also, (unless Im terribly mistaken) these shops are not:
1) paying your wages
2) organsed by the state
and you are not
1) a public body
2) in a position of power

Same thing with all the local authorities, in Dublin anyway. Fingal County Council staff get discounts in certain shops in Swords and Blanchardstown, Dublin City Council too, South Dublin in Tallaght and Dun Laoghaire Rathdown aswell. You're "paying their wages", so what's your opinion on it?

If a Guard gets free entrance into a nightclub, he still has to pay for his drinks. If he gets a free coffee, it's because he's also bought a roll worth €4 or whatever. The shops are looking for somthing in return too ie. the Guard's money. As regards chippers and fast food restaurants, all prisoners are entitled to be fed. The amount of business a chipper could do just from being nice to the Gardaí is unreal. If you're regularly placing big orders, the owner would be mad not to say, sure have a burger and chips for yourself aswell. If he doesn't, you can be sure someone else will. That's not corruption, it's trying to win customers and make money.

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 2:26pm

colliegG wrote: »

Em actually you'd be mistaken about most of your assumptions but that's not the point.

well it is actually, so which am I wrong on?

colliegG wrote: »

The point is if I get a discount from a service provider I'm more likely to use that service provider again. I'm also more likely to mention my good experience with that service provider to other people such as friends or family. They will go there and if their experience is also positive, albiet without the discount, they too will mention it to other people and on and on. Thats what is happening with the gardai. It's positive reinforcement to advertise through word of mouth. It really is very basic marketing.

If you increase the pool that you offer "perks" to you increase the chance of other non-discounted business arriving.

Yes I understand how marketing works thanks.
There are far more IT people that Gards, why dont these shops give discounts to IT professionals?
But you are still missing the point.
In your instance the shop is getting custom from you, if a Gard is let into a nite club for free what is the club getting that they are not getting from me?
Why can I not go in for free? I will be buying drinks whereas the guard (as mentioned several times earlier, will not as they are bound to step in during any trouble)

colliegG wrote: »

The fact that the Gardai repeatedly use the same service providers to buy non discounted items shows how effective this tactic is.

You have facts to back this up? Personally I would say they reason they go back is the fact that they keep getting stuff for free...

How impartial do you reckon the Gards are towards these "Perk Shops"?
If there is in incident between shop A and person B and the Gards are called do you not think there is a slight chance that the guards will be influenced by the fact that shop A gives them their coffee for free everyday?
Cant you see how this is wrong?
If I was arrested after an incident like above and found out that the cops had a "relationship" with the shop Id use it to get any case thrown out of court, same as if the Judge was best mates with the shop keeper.

Kat1170 · 12-12-2007 2:42pm

If I was arrested after an incident like above and found out that the cops had a "relationship" with the shop Id use it to get any case thrown out of court, same as if the Judge was best mates with the shop keeper.

Then surely you should be hoping that the Guards get free stuff everywhere, and not bitching about the few things they do get. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lola123 · 12-12-2007 2:46pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I dunno what these Russians are complaining about, in Nigeria the cops cut your arms off.

See how pointless that argument is?:rolleyes:

No, I fail to see how my argument was pointless.

I was pointing out that there is a difference between corrupt cops (such as in Russia and Nigeria....thanks for the other example!) and the gardai getting a free sandwich.

Have you even gotten anything for free or discounted because of your job? I know I most certainly have.

Sonnenblumen · 12-12-2007 2:52pm

What's the big deal about gardai getting little perks, I mean its not uncommon for lots of others, as another poster pointed out. Anyways I'm sure it's an effective way of building closer links, which might be beneficial if assistance was required.

IMO I would imagine it's an informal gesture to acknowledge Garda services to the communities. The whingers will disagree but they're probably most likely peripheral and therefore not relevant.

I'd find something else to whinge about, but if it's hurting that much why not make a complaint?

More Garda and fewer whingers would make this place a better place.

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 2:53pm

Lola123 wrote: »

No, I fail to see how my argument was pointless.

I was pointing out that there is a difference between corrupt cops (such as in Russia and Nigeria....thanks for the other example!) and the gardai getting a free sandwich.

Have you even gotten anything for free or discounted because of your job? I know I most certainly have.

And as part of your job are you supposed to be providing an unbiased, state controlled service to the public?
Are you in a position of power over >95% of the public?

The reason your argument is pointless is that you are saying it doesnt matter that our cops take back handers because other cops are worse. Im pointing out the small mindedness of that argument as following that logic only the "worst" cops should be dealt with.

User45701 · 12-12-2007 2:55pm

well as for no.2 ive seen the fire brigade do it at roundabouts twice

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 2:56pm

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What's the big deal about gardai getting little perks, I mean its not uncommon for lots of others, as another poster pointed out. Anyways I'm sure it's an effective way of building closer links, which might be beneficial if assistance was required.

meaning that those who arent building these closer links are at a disadvantage? Nice level of impartiality there.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

The whingers will disagree but they're probably most likely peripheral and therefore not relevant.

Good luck getting all that tar of your brush.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

More Garda and fewer whingers would make this place a better place.

Actually it would probably put more companies out of business as fewer people would actually be paying customers.

Sonnenblumen · 12-12-2007 3:01pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Actually it would probably put more companies out of business as fewer people would actually be paying customers.

Is it no wonder watching others making friends with Garda upsets you?

An Citeog · 12-12-2007 3:13pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Good luck getting all that tar of your brush.

Em, pot kettle black etc! So it's ok for you and other posters to tar over 10,000 people with the same brush based on anecdotal evidence then?

As regards prioritising calls, it depends on the seriousness of the incident and the amount of Gardaí available to respond. If it's a simple choice of one over the other, Gardaí will respond to the one that's closest.

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 3:23pm

An Citeog wrote: »

Em, pot kettle black etc! So it's ok for you and other posters to tar over 10,000 people with the same brush based on anecdotal evidence then?

erm yes, I am tarring all the Gards who take backhanders with the same brush, not ALL gards though. Spot the Difference?

An Citeog wrote: »

As regards prioritising calls, it depends on the seriousness of the incident and the amount of Gardaí available to respond. If it's a simple choice of one over the other, Gardaí will respond to the one that's closest.

So you are honestly telling me that if the Spar and the Centra on Westmoreland St are being attacked and there is only 1 unit available they wont go to the one that doles out the freebies first?

colliegG · 12-12-2007 3:31pm

GreeBo wrote: »

well it is actually, so which am I wrong on?

Yes I understand how marketing works thanks.
There are far more IT people that Gards, why dont these shops give discounts to IT professionals?
But you are still missing the point.
In your instance the shop is getting custom from you, if a Gard is let into a nite club for free what is the club getting that they are not getting from me?
Why can I not go in for free? I will be buying drinks whereas the guard (as mentioned several times earlier, will not as they are bound to step in during any trouble)

You have facts to back this up? Personally I would say they reason they go back is the fact that they keep getting stuff for free...

How impartial do you reckon the Gards are towards these "Perk Shops"?
If there is in incident between shop A and person B and the Gards are called do you not think there is a slight chance that the guards will be influenced by the fact that shop A gives them their coffee for free everyday?
Cant you see how this is wrong?
If I was arrested after an incident like above and found out that the cops had a "relationship" with the shop Id use it to get any case thrown out of court, same as if the Judge was best mates with the shop keeper.

My job has nothing to do with this thread. I'm not a Garda but I fit all of your conditions pretty closely.

As I said earlier, everyone (IT people, admin etc) in my place gets those perks. If in your company you don't, then you obviously don't go to the same places regularly enough in big enough groups.

Gardai bring civilian friends to these clubs and pubs just like staff from our place do when they go to them. In most cases the friends pay in. Also I hate to point this out but usually the Gardai are flashing their id to get into a place for free, just like I do. They're not telling the owner of a club they're here as private security. Of course they'll be drinking. The point is I see no problem with that.

I have the same facts to prove Gardai return to the same shops to purchase stuff as you have to prove they don't. Namely "what so and so said to me". Still it makes sense to me as the Gardai are hardly going to subsist on free coffee now are they??

As to you thinking that free coffee could be shown as a breach of impartiality regarding the Gardai. Good luck with that!! The Gardai are not the courts.

Lola123 · 12-12-2007 3:40pm

GreeBo wrote: »

And as part of your job are you supposed to be providing an unbiased, state controlled service to the public?
Are you in a position of power over >95% of the public?

The reason your argument is pointless is that you are saying it doesnt matter that our cops take back handers because other cops are worse. Im pointing out the small mindedness of that argument as following that logic only the "worst" cops should be dealt with.

I notice you didn't answer my question.

I work in a legal department, so yes, to some extent my work is state controlled given that I've to enforce regulations.

I'm not saying thats it doesn't matter if cops take back handers. What I was trying to say is that there is a difference between taking back handers and getting free coffee!! Clearly, taking backhanders and bribery is not in anyway acceptable for the Gardai to do. I would have thought that was obvious and thus a pointless statement to make!!!!
(By the way, you shouldn't state that "our cops take bankhanders", without solid evidence)

An Citeog · 12-12-2007 3:44pm

GreeBo wrote: »

erm yes, I am tarring all the Gards who take backhanders with the same brush, not ALL gards though. Spot the Difference?

I see what you're saying but I completely disagree. You're questioning the integrity and impartiality of quite a number of Gardaí based on any discounts they may receive. Quite a statement to make without any proof whatsoever to back it up. Can you refer to any previous cases or even any stories you may have heard about such incidents occurring?

Btw, referring to free coffee with purchases or discounted meals in restaurants/take-aways close to the station as backhanders is laughable.

GreeBo wrote:

So you are honestly telling me that if the Spar and the Centra on Westmoreland St are being attacked and there is only 1 unit available they wont go to the one that doles out the freebies first?

Obviously I can't tell you definitively because it's a purely hypothetical situation. I don't see how you can make a definitive statement on the matter either.

If you don't like the current situation though, here's where to go: http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/.

colliegG · 12-12-2007 3:49pm

An Citeog wrote: »

If you don't like the current situation though, here's where to go: http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/.

Oh don't encourage him Citeog

Lola123 · 12-12-2007 3:55pm

An Citeog wrote: »

I see what you're saying but I completely disagree. You're questioning the integrity and impartiality of quite a number of Gardaí based on any discounts they may receive. Quite a statement to make without any proof whatsoever to back it up. Can you refer to any previous cases or even any stories you may have heard about such incidents occurring?

Btw, referring to free coffee with purchases or discounted meals in restaurants/take-aways close to the station as backhanders is laughable.

Obviously I can't tell you definitively because it's a purely hypothetical situation. I don't see how you can make a definitive statement on the matter either.

If you don't like the current situation though, here's where to go: http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/.

+1
And please let us know how you get on with the Garda Ombudsman! I could do with a good laugh!

An Citeog · 12-12-2007 4:03pm

colliegG wrote: »

Oh don't encourage him Citeog

He doesn't even need to. I'm sure the Ombudsman is carefully sifting through this thread at the moment!

Rob_l wrote: »

garda ombudsman has been forwarded a link to this thread FTW

GreeBo · 12-12-2007 4:16pm

I was nearly laughing (from all the witty replies you understand) too much to reply.
Nearly.
All your arguments for this practice can be countered with one simple word.
"Why?"
Why do they Garda get this special treatment?
Giving discounts to paying consumers is all well and good but freebies to a specific group of public employees and expecting something in return to my mind is clearly wrong.

If you accept free coffee because of what your powers are then what else do you accept, where do you draw the line?
Coffee for Garda A is ok but brown envelopes to planners are not ok?
Can you people not see that its an all or nothing scenario?
They are either clean or they are dirty.
Its not "only" a cup of coffee.

colliegG · 12-12-2007 4:18pm

OMG I bet Greebo is the Ombudsman!!! :rolleyes:

Lola123 · 12-12-2007 4:25pm

Why do the garda get special treatment?
Em, cos it's a perk of the job?!:D

Cowboy Gardai

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