FWIW.my thoughts on how things progress.
Too much of a cold potato for the minister to worry about right now what with the possible election and Dail recess coming up, so that's the Jan 2018 nonsense sunk as of now.
Who knows what happens between now and Jan 2020 in a place where a week is a long time in politics? it won't be Heather's[proably not] problem by then, so let someone else deal with that kicked down the road can, especially where apparently the PAC was scenting blood in the water and were starting to gather as well.

Sooo
this will obviously have to go to tender sometime, so the plan should be let's have something put together by us for us that is adaptable to whatever demands NPWSand the Dept requires..Also, let's not forget to remind them that NOTHING changes until the Wildlife act and Data protection and qualification of the instructors is firmly established.

Now,let's start thinking outside the box for a change and lets quit cutting our own throats with outdated education methods. In a country that claims it is technology and social media advanced why can we not set up...

1] Not for profit organisation that will run this course ONLINE and will publish every quarter or whenever its accounts which are easily viewed by the public? As DAI/HCAP claimed they were not for profit and no money went back to NPWS, so could this organisation be the same.the only expenditure will be[if needed] is the range test hire fee, and running the website.

2] Base this course on the US NRA hunter safety course, learn it all at your pace online and do the theory test online too.Right after you have finished the book work if you so want.You cant progress to the next stage until you pass the online test at home with the required score. Nominal cost to the hunter and all the course charges is a small fee for web admin and such.You pass the theory part, you get informed within minutes what your score is and where you were good and where maybe you need to read up a bit more on?

Lads, I did my private pilot's license theory exam like this in the USA in the late 1990s, even before the interweb was taking off.The only difference was we did it online in a test centre.

3]Use your registered account number to book a practical test, which will be more on SAFETY rather than marksmanship, and I picture more like a STAGS type shoot, with shoot/no shoot scenarios, and none of this zero shooting stuff.That's up to you as a proper stalker to zero your rifle anyway,[and lucky for the deer if your rifle is completely off zero too.]

4] Pass that part.That's it you are qualified on paper stalker, for life!None of this "refresher" BS.You learn to stalk and hunting by being outside in the field not from a book.
Now you have a building block to go on and do other courses, if and when you want to gain more qualifications.IE game handling, advanced stalker, High seat builder, instructor etc. This is the same way PADI scuba diving works as well.Get the foundation course then add on as you need and see fit.

How difficult to set up and run, and how much of a cost?No instructors needed.No need to travel the length and breadth of the country, or buying overpriced manuals full of inaccurate info? No panic or rush to learn it or cram the night before.All computer-based and Data protected.With an appeals protocol on all aspect of the test. You pay the RANGE on the day as well, now again there is a process of where the money goes.

Next, Joe and Jane stalker of Ireland need a seat on the IDMF, not a bunch of elitists trying to come out of state forests, or from one or two counties, or academics.but a rep who is elected by the members on their knowledge and experience of stalking and hunting by popular vote and ballot.Who only has the interests of stalkers in mind, not for personal profit or anything else.

And before any of this is done some serious debate needs to be done with NPWS, IDMF the Dept and all other interested parties[inc the aforementioned rep] on the following topics;
1] How many deer do we actually have in Ireland?is it increasing or decreasing?
Real on the ground figures please, not grey theory.IOW lads get your wellies on and dump the lab coat and go out up hill and down dale and count the damn things for once! HINT Drones, SMS deer cams, mineral licks, off-season feeding sites etc, can make life easier for you too.

2] Illegal game harvesting and game dealers.How about some ideas that might actually discourage such by enforcing the laws in existence and stiffening the penalties for the illegal activities, instead of trying to get the ligit stalkers to pay for this nonsense with crazy and expensive ideas like deer tags or whatever?How about forfeiture of poachers vehicles and firearms and other property /banning from holding FAC for over ten years?Shutting down game dealers for minimum four years and moving the fines up to circuit court level?Greater than 20k? Jailing those who hunt deer with dogs?Even a moratorium on wild deer being sold to game dealers, to take the "easy money" aspect from this?

3] Sect42.Is there really NO alternative?

4] Primitive weapons, bP, shotgun slugs.IF we are all going to be licensed, and qualified, why can this not be considered as well? This would be the place to have this out as all parties inc AGS are there at the table?

We now have the advantage to set this up for ourselves, by ourselves for our future selves without govt meddling and for-profit concerns.Lets Carpe Diem[Seize the day] as the lads in ancient Rome used to say.

Blame others for your misfortune... Latest from our friends blog.


NARGC STATEMENT ON HCAP – MISLEADING OR JUST DISHONEST?
A statement has appeared on the website of the National Association of Regional Games Councils headed “Hunter Competence Assessment Programme (HCAP)”. That statement is at best misleading and at worse just plain dishonest.

The statement addresses the requirement for mandatory certification as a prerequisite for issue of a Deer Hunting Licence (DHL), which follows a recommendation from the Irish Deer Management Forum (“the Forum”). In March 2016, after exhaustive debate, the Forum unanimously adopted the following recommendation for submission to the appointing Ministers: “That the IDMF recommend to the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and the Minister for Agriculture, Food & the Marine that Certification of Competency from an accredited source in knowledge of wild deer species, disease recognition, management, culling and safe methods of control, together with marksmanship and safe usage and storage of firearms, be a mandatory requirement before the grant of a licence to hunt wild deer; and that mandatory certification be introduced on a phased basis over a five year period commencing on the 1st day of January 2018 for existing holders of deer hunting licences, and with immediate effect from the same date for all new applicants for deer hunting licences”.

This recommendation was duly submitted to the Ministers concerned and confirmation of adoption of the recommendation was subsequently received by the Forum.

The NARGC statement asserts that “there was no consultation that we the NARGC were aware of and have this requirement forced upon us”. The NARGC have had a seat at the Forum table from Day One and were fully involved in all deliberations of the Forum, including representation on the Communications, Training & Best Practice Working Group which was responsible for framing the Recommendation. Training and certification for deer hunters was adopted as a priority objective for the Forum from date of appointment of the Forum and was dealt with in detail in numerous submissions made in the process of public consultation over a two-year period. It is at best disingenuous to suggest that the NARCG were not party to consultations, which were exhaustive.

In fact, as can be seen from the Recommendation, certification is not limited to Deer Alliance HCAP. So far as Deer Alliance HCAP is concerned, “HCAP or equivalent” has always been and continues to be, the criterion for certification. By no means does mandatory certification place Deer Alliance (HCAP) “at the centre of what is a commercial venture, with no viable alternatives open […]”. Deer Alliance HCAP is a not-for-profit body, operating on a break-even basis and with full disclosure of all finances. It is open to any third party to put forward a programme for training, assessment and certification, with HCAP as a valid benchmark for measurement of equivalency. HCAP has processed some 2400 candidates since 2005, when certification became a mandatory requirement for hunters wishing to hunt deer on Coillte forest property. HCAP des not consist of merely of “answering 30 multi choice questions and attending a range test”. Candidates must answer a minimum of forty questions correctly, and then passing a rigorous test of firearms handling and marksmanship. Both stages are demanding of ability and generally, only those candidates who engage in optional Training Workshops and careful study of the Deer Alliance Stalker Training Manual, and then show up for the Range Test with firearms correctly zeroed, safe to use and being capable of putting the requisite number of rounds onto the target on their first attempt, achieve maximum results.

It may be the case that internal dissension and seismic change interfered with the NARGC’s involvement with the different processes and debates engaged in by the Forum in recent months. That is no excuse for misleading their membership as to consultation, or for denigrating a process of assessment and certification recognised as fit for purpose by Coillte Teoranta and National Parks & Wildlife Service; or for disrespecting the voluntary work of all those engaged in Deer Alliance HCAP, including the different deer organisations such as the Irish Deer Society and the Wild Deer Association of Ireland, which have done far more for deer and for deer hunters than any other shooting organisation over the last forty years.

Cass wrote: »

So were the NARGC present at these meetings, who was there as a rep for the NARGC and what involvement did they have?

If they were involved in any amount they have the same questions to answer such as why not inform your membership. I'm getting a little tired of these groups making submissions and acting on the agenda of the few people at the meeting which usually is in stark contrast the best interests of the sport. If the NARGC had a hand in it, time to come clean as it'll come out at some point. A simple FOI request for the minutes of all meetings will identify the people and groups involved.

Going by the minutes of the meetings published on the forum that are public the NARGC rep was at two of them in the foundation and at the 2nd meeting. So what was Mr Doris doing in the meantime for NARGC?It seems this is another place of trilouges all right.With working groups publishing stuff internally.

"

or equivalent" is part of the Coilte handbook and has no basis in law so meaningless to non Coilte shooters.

Bit of a joke saying this, as they have been trumpeting for years that HCAP is THE only acceptable and recognised certification[for Coilte lets].