Schools closed until February? (part 3)

irishblessing · 23-10-2020 11:11am

meeeeh wrote: »

Why wouldn't they be honest? So we should take their taxes for schools, health, welfare and so on then then criticize them when they point out it's not possible to work with kids around. The same socialist brigade will then whinge when there are no houses built or when rural internet scheme is not progressing or why there are cancer screening waiting lists.

If you have people minding their kids at home they won't be working.

Solutions. There are so many solutions to the conundrum of two working parents that have already been listed here ad nauseam. I don't know what planet you're on, but a lack of forward thinking, planning, and hard work just to do the easiest and least effective move of lashing in all the students in all the schools full time is irresponsible and ridiculous because, childcare.

It most certainly is possible to work with kids around. We did it. Millions do it.

The sectors you mention can go ahead with proper scheduling and supports from the government in place.

JimmyVik · 23-10-2020 11:12am

Thats me wrote: »

Thanks, this is looking like a true reason behing the unresponsible decision to keep schools open during L5.

What I do not understand is motivation of these posters who recently was telling bull...t to me that the reason is the poor will lose something if schools will be closed for 1.5 month, child abuse will grow and apocalipse will happen because of such dramatic interruption in the process of education :rolleyes:

I wouldnt mind peoples opinions. We all have different ones.
Its the unclear stats from nphet and the different rules for scholls than anyone else that I take issues with. IMO the public are not being told the truth, and its gone too far now for them to admit it. So they have to keep the obscuring and massaging of statistics going.
Not the first time they have done it now is it?

Funsterdelux · 23-10-2020 11:12am

My OH's school has their first comfirmed case, a 2nd class told to stay home today, teacher has been out since Monday(dont know when tested positive), the sub they had in all week is now subbing in another class.

These are the situations that bug me. And I know some one will say "the sub isnt a close contact of the positive case"

Subs in general are moved around classes and schools.

Btw I want schools open, but safely with cop on

JimmyVik · 23-10-2020 11:16am

Funsterdelux wrote: »

My OH's school has their first comfirmed case, a 2nd class told to stay home today, teacher has been out since Monday(dont know when tested positive), the sub they had in all week is now subbing in another class.

These are the situations that bug me. And I know some one will say "the sub isnt a close contact of the positive case"

Subs in general are moved around classes and schools.

Btw I want schools open, but safely with cop on

So teacher tested positive. Was probably in the class while positive.
Sub then goes into class which could have positive cases in it.
Sub then moves to another class.
Nobody tested at all?
What could possibly go wrong

SusanC10 · 23-10-2020 11:16am

irishblessing wrote: »

Solutions. There are so many solutions to the conundrum of two working parents that have already been listed here ad nauseam. I don't know what planet you're on, but a lack of forward thinking, planning, and hard work just to do the easiest and least effective move of lashing in all the students in all the schools full time is irresponsible and ridiculous because, childcare.

It most certainly is possible to work with kids around. We did it. Millions do it.

The sectors you mention can go ahead with proper scheduling and supports from the government in place.

Also, a choice of remote learning should be given to Parents as some don't need Childcare and others are able to work around their Kids being at home.

lulublue22 · 23-10-2020 11:19am

Jucifer wrote: »

Again the message being given in schools is that this is the sanitizer product being provided for teachers, not students. So unless there has been a mix up students should be safe

That is incorrect - it has been provided for children in lovely bright child friendly bottles - How do I know cos I have one in my class

meeeeh · 23-10-2020 11:19am

Thats me wrote: »

Thanks, this is looking like a true reason behing the unresponsible decision to keep schools open during L5.

What I do not understand is motivation of these posters who recently was telling bull...t to me that the reason is the poor will lose something if schools will be closed for 1.5 month, child abuse will grow and apocalipse will happen because of such dramatic interruption in the process of education :rolleyes:

Actually most of the people with more than three brain cells would be able to comprehend that there are multiple reasons for different sectors of society why it is good to have kids in school. Of course you have to actually work to notice what challenges working people face.

joe40 · 23-10-2020 11:20am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

Yet Norma says only 1 in 10 schools down here have had any sort of covid issues.

Interestingly up north their official figures show 2030 in school going cases yet down herei think officially they say we've far less than a quarter of that number.

10% of school staff were absent from the school buildings the week 6-13 October.

I work in a school up north. (Great to have the week off)
To my mind there has to be transmission between pupils because it is virtually impossible to social distance at break times etc. Partly due to lack of space and human nature.
As a teacher I always maintain distance between myself and pupils. No more individual attention at a desk etc and keep hand washing.
I don't feel 100% safe but then again I don't feel 100%safe in shops. I imagine anyone using public transport feel the same.
I also feel Education is an essential service. Maybe not urgent like health services but still vitally important over the longer term.
Personally I really hope there is no long term, widespread disruption to schools.
There is plenty to criticize about measures put in place north and south but I still want to keep going to work.

On an aside the measures in place south of the border are far superior. My kids are in school in Donegal and there, measures are much stricter.

expectationlost · 23-10-2020 11:28am

lulublue22 wrote: »

That is incorrect - it has been provided for children in lovely bright child friendly bottles - How do I know cos I have one in my class

the ones that say 0% alcohol?

https://www.virapro.ie/virapro-kids

Dempo1 · 23-10-2020 11:30am

Jucifer wrote: »

Again the message being given in schools is that this is the sanitizer product being provided for teachers, not students. So unless there has been a mix up students should be safe

That's certainly not the message I got from listening to the interview, infact not a mention of this product only being for teachers?

poppers · 23-10-2020 11:35am

Why are national school teachers not wearing their masks all day.
I havd a child in both primary and secondary primary teacher doesn't wear mask unless they are beside the child also my child has commented that the teacher only wears it around their mouth with nose out.

SusanC10 · 23-10-2020 11:37am

poppers wrote: »

Why are national school teachers not wearing their masks all day.
I havd a child in both primary and secondary primary teacher doesn't wear mask unless they are beside the child also my child has commented that the teacher only wears it around their mouth with nose out.

No idea. Our daughter (Primary) says that her own Class Teacher has a mask on all day but she sees some of the other Teachers not wearing them all the time.

Boggles · 23-10-2020 11:38am

poppers wrote: »

Why are national school teachers not wearing their masks all day.

Guidance.

The virus is not airborne.

Official "science" from the DOE.

wirelessdude01 · 23-10-2020 11:41am

poppers wrote: »

Why are national school teachers not wearing their masks all day.
I havd a child in both primary and secondary primary teacher doesn't wear mask unless they are beside the child also my child has commented that the teacher only wears it around their mouth with nose out.

Guidance says we don't have to. It was a running joke in my class that when I retreated to my 'exclusion ' zone' I'd take the mask off and inhale deeply!!!

poppers · 23-10-2020 11:44am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Guidance says we don't have to. It was a running joke in my class that when I retreated to my 'exclusion ' zone' I'd take the mask off and inhale deeply!!!

Guidance aside if teachers are as worried about catching covid as we hear every day then why not keep them on.

mohawk · 23-10-2020 11:44am

The_Brood wrote: »

Failed parents who can't cope with their own children and are forcing the virus down the rest of society's throats are the real villains in all this. There need to be consequences. "We're all in this together" - more like never have more people had to pay for the failures of others. I hope your "peace" at home to "do your work" is worth endless lockdowns, spiraling cases, and a destroyed economy?

Are all parents that send their children to school everyday failed parents?? The post is unclear. If your post refers to parents sending sick children to school then you have a point.

I have heard of two cases in a Secondary school in a nearby town that the children went to school showing symptoms. The school in one case didn’t act on the first day was on third day the child was told not to come in the next day. Child should of been pulled out of the class and parents called to collect them. There is no excuse for those parents to be sending a sick child into school especially secondary school they don’t even need childcare.

My son goes to local primary school and has missed two days this year because he got a tummy bug. I sent him back when he went over 24 hours without symptoms. The school wanted to know why he was out straight away. Which I think was very responsible.

Thats me · 23-10-2020 11:48am

JimmyVik wrote: »

I wouldnt mind peoples opinions.

Up to you, but some of these persons not gifted with common sense could be teaching your own children right at the moment as I writing this..

Deeec · 23-10-2020 11:48am

The_Brood wrote: »

So even school principals of all people are now saying there is a cover up: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1022/1173303-irish-schools-covid/

Failed parents who can't cope with their own children and are forcing the virus down the rest of society's throats are the real villains in all this. There need to be consequences. "We're all in this together" - more like never have more people had to pay for the failures of others. I hope your "peace" at home to "do your work" is worth endless lockdowns, spiraling cases, and a destroyed economy?

But sure go ahead and tell me how school principals are making this up and the DofE is right?

Have you tried working from home with kids? Schools are unsafe at the moment because of the high number of contact teachers/children have per day - I get that. There absolutely should be a blended learning approach in place to reduce this.

I found it very difficult to work full time from home and homeschool ( my husband works long hours outside of the home) with my 3 children . IT IS NOT EASY - each household is different and every employer is different in their understanding of this. The biggest thing that would help overcome this is a standard plan issued from the government on homeschooling/blended learning.

I think it would be the best solution for schools to close but us parents need support from the schools. I am sick of people posting on here saying parents are just lazy and cant be bothered looking after and teaching their kids - it most cases this is completely untrue

wirelessdude01 · 23-10-2020 11:50am

poppers wrote: »

Guidance aside if teachers are as worried about catching covid as we hear every day then why not keep them on.

I pretty much did. Much like the 'mask breaks' in secondary for the students it's nice to take it off for a few seconds and not be breathing in fibres.

khalessi · 23-10-2020 11:51am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Guidance says we don't have to. It was a running joke in my class that when I retreated to my 'exclusion ' zone' I'd take the mask off and inhale deeply!!!

Yep we have a chained off area around the teachers desk in class that I hung a do not feed the teacher sign off. The kids told me it was safe to remove my mask in the "teacher zone", I thanked them for the info but didnt.

Today I am running around in an inflatable costume with a mask on inside the suit and occasionally opening it to exchange the air. Kids getting a great laugh and thats the point, give them something to giggle about. It is lovely hearing laughter throughout the school today and seeing the effort the kids and staff went through for costumes, with the older ones making their own horror movie.

Boggles · 23-10-2020 11:51am

poppers wrote: »

Guidance aside if teachers are as worried about catching covid as we hear every day then why not keep them on.

Really? How far do you want to take that?

Most of the "guidance" is absolute nonsense.

If a teacher is worried about catching Covid can they insist on having only half their class in at a time? Would you back that idea?

Can they insist on their class wear masks and if not refuse to let them in?

JimmyVik · 23-10-2020 11:52am

Thats me wrote: »

Up to you, but some of these persons not gifted with common sense could be teaching your own children right at the moment as I writing this..

Its more the ones who arent teachings opinions that make me laugh in this thread tbh.

Thats me · 23-10-2020 11:52am

Boggles wrote: »

The virus is not airborne.

Wat???? :eek:

wirelessdude01 · 23-10-2020 11:53am

Deeec wrote: »

I think it would be the best solution for schools to close but us parents need support from the schools. I am sick of people posting on here saying parents are just lazy and cant be bothered looking after and teaching their kids - it most cases this is completely untrue

Br aware that I think the vast majority of posters that spout this aren't teachers and the few that are passing themselves off as teachers don't portray what the majority of us think. Obviously some do hold this opinion.

Jucifer · 23-10-2020 11:53am

lulublue22 wrote: »

That is incorrect - it has been provided for children in lovely bright child friendly bottles - How do I know cos I have one in my class

So the sanitiser being recalled, the one with methanol instead of ethanol, was provided to children in your school? Despite the instruction that children only be provided alcohol free sanitiser?

Jinglejangle69 · 23-10-2020 11:54am

irishblessing wrote: »

Solutions. There are so many solutions to the conundrum of two working parents that have already been listed here ad nauseam. I don't know what planet you're on, but a lack of forward thinking, planning, and hard work just to do the easiest and least effective move of lashing in all the students in all the schools full time is irresponsible and ridiculous because, childcare.

It most certainly is possible to work with kids around. We did it. Millions do it.

The sectors you mention can go ahead with proper scheduling and supports from the government in place.

Yes because all couples can work from home at the moment.

God how did I not realise that??

Sure the food will make itself and transport itself into shops.

Water will magically filter itself into our taps.

Forgot noone needs to work outside their home ever again.

What was I thinking??

Deeec · 23-10-2020 11:56am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Br aware that I think the vast majority of posters that spout this aren't teachers and the few that are passing themselves off as teachers don't portray what the majority of us think. Obviously some do hold this opinion.

I agree - they are not teachers or parents.

Icyseanfitz · 23-10-2020 11:59am

https://twitter.com/segal_eran/status/1313831721981415428

No1. Lesson from isreal, don't open schools in periods of high transmission, but sure what do they know :rolleyes:

poppers · 23-10-2020 11:59am

Boggles wrote: »

Really? How far do you want to take that?

Most of the "guidance" is absolute nonsense.

If a teacher is worried about catching Covid can they insist on having only half their class in at a time? Would you back that idea?

Can they insist on their class wear masks and if not refuse to let them in?

No i wouldn't but if i was worried about covid id wear the mask all day.

Thats me · 23-10-2020 12:00pm

Jucifer wrote: »

So the sanitiser being recalled, the one with methanol instead of ethanol, was provided to children in your school?

Was it ever disclosed why it was recalled? In the recall notice there was no reason provided, in RTE article it was said like "some sanitisers contain methanol" but it was not said namely this one is.

wirelessdude01 · 23-10-2020 12:00pm

I see thr NVRL UCD will be shut for the next two weekends due to unavoidable staff shortages. This is the biggest lab testing facility in the country.

More backlogs incoming.

byhookorbycrook · 23-10-2020 12:02pm

"In certain situations the use of clear visors should be considered, for example staff interacting with pupils with hearing difficulties or learning difficulties. "
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dd364-control-measures-covid-19-response-plan-for-safe-re-opening-of-primary-schools/#use-of-ppe-in-schools

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1004/1169331-coronavirus-protection-visors/

khalessi · 23-10-2020 12:03pm

Deeec wrote: »

. I am sick of people posting on here saying parents are just lazy and cant be bothered looking after and teaching their kids - it most cases this is completely untrue

I honestly don't agree with that at all. Sure I'm a parent and my kids are in school at the moment. I think we all have bills to pay and yes the country has to get up an running. All I want is the HSE and Dept to be honest about numbers in schools, transparent and to carry out tracking and tracing properly

No environment is 100% safe but an environment with children in it should be provided the proper resources in it to be as safe as possible.

Parents need to know their kids are safe as they worry too and teachers need to know their working environment is safe.

Boggles · 23-10-2020 12:08pm

poppers wrote: »

No i wouldn't but if i was worried about covid id wear the mask all day.

Are you a teacher? You know wearing a mask all day doesn't really lend itself to adequate communication with young children, let alone "teaching".

Also, Are you not worried about Covid?

Boggles · 23-10-2020 12:09pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

"In certain situations the use of clear visors should be considered, for example staff interacting with pupils with hearing difficulties or learning difficulties. "
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dd364-control-measures-covid-19-response-plan-for-safe-re-opening-of-primary-schools/#use-of-ppe-in-schools

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1004/1169331-coronavirus-protection-visors/

Public Health were asked weeks ago to rule on visors.

The "report" isn't back.

We use all the international evidence we can google when it suits us.

s1ippy · 23-10-2020 12:16pm

expectationlost wrote: »

the ones that say 0% alcohol?

https://www.virapro.ie/virapro-kids

It doesn't kill covid (or has incredibly weak antiviral/bactericidal properties anyway) AND it makes you blind AND causes respiratory failure.

Did nobody read the bottle?

Grandeeod · 23-10-2020 12:24pm

A case was confirmed in my daughters 1st year class yesterday. Today she has been confirmed as a close contact of the sick student. They aren't friends and don't mix outside school. Now I thought that other students in a class aren't considered close contacts. I reckon they have identified contacts as those that sat near the sick student. My daughter sits beside her for three classes a week and claims they aren't even 1m apart. Any thoughts?

khalessi · 23-10-2020 12:27pm

Boggles wrote: »

Public Health were asked weeks ago to rule on visors.

The "report" isn't back.

We use all the international evidence we can google when it suits us.

Sure it has been shown they are as safe, there were the waiters in Switzerland who caught covid wearing visors only. There have been studies on them.Luke O Neil in his webinar on schools and covid also said they were not as effective withouht and a mask.

wirelessdude01 · 23-10-2020 12:29pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

A case was confirmed in my daughters 1st year class yesterday. Today she has been confirmed as a close contact of the sick student. They aren't friends and don't mix outside school. Now I thought that other students in a class aren't considered close contacts. I reckon they have identified contacts as those that sat near the sick student. My daughter sits beside her for three classes a week and claims they aren't even 1m apart. Any thoughts?

Pick and mix approach, zero consistency.

You could have a different set of close contacts from this case if a different public health team/person looked at it.

Better safe than sorry if you ask me.

JP100 · 23-10-2020 12:30pm

Same hand sanitizer being used in Circle K.

https://www.thejournal.ie/circle-k-virapro-5242704-Oct2020/?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

Deeec · 23-10-2020 12:32pm

khalessi wrote: »

I honestly don't agree with that at all. Sure I'm a parent and my kids are in school at the moment. I think we all have bills to pay and yes the country has to get up an running. All I want is the HSE and Dept to be honest about numbers in schools, transparent and to carry out tracking and tracing properly

No environment is 100% safe but an environment with children in it should be provided the proper resources in it to be as safe as possible.

Parents need to know their kids are safe as they worry too and teachers need to know their working environment is safe.

I agree with all your comments . I wrote that comment in relation to people posting that parents do not want their children at home and that we view schools as childcare - I know I dont have this view. Im not following why you disagree with me?

irishblessing · 23-10-2020 12:35pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yes because all couples can work from home at the moment.

God how did I not realise that??

Sure the food will make itself and transport itself into shops.

Water will magically filter itself into our taps.

Forgot noone needs to work outside their home ever again.

What was I thinking??

Give over. All those workers are not parents. Lol.

Once and for all, Jinglejangle: Blended. Remote. Learning. Plan. = one solution

Rotating work schedules = another solution

Childcare subsidy for people if the gov't would get off their árses = another solution.

khalessi · 23-10-2020 12:36pm

Deeec wrote: »

I agree with all your comments . I wrote that comment in relation to people posting that parents do not want their children at home and that we view schools as childcare - I know I dont have this view. Im not following why you disagree with me?

Miscommunication, you wrote I am sick of people posting on here saying parents are just lazy and cant be bothered looking after and teaching their kids - it most cases this is completely untrue

I dont agree that parents are just lazy and cant be bothered looking after and teaching their kids - it most cases this is completely untrue"

Because of the reasons I gave previously

Jinglejangle69 · 23-10-2020 12:39pm

irishblessing wrote: »

Give over.

Once and for all, Jinglejangle: Blended. Remote. Learning. Plan. = one solution

Rotating work schedules = another solution

Childcare subsidy for people if the gov't would get off their árses = another solution.

I agree with blended learning.

What I don't agree with is people coming here claiming homeschooling 3 kids under 7 while one parent has to work from home and the other has to be out of the house working is something simple enough to manage.

You might have been lucky enough to have both of your jobs allow you work from home.

Many couples aren't.

JimmyVik · 23-10-2020 12:48pm

khalessi wrote: »

Sure it has been shown they are as safe, there were the waiters in Switzerland who caught covid wearing visors only. There have been studies on them.Luke O Neil in his webinar on schools and covid also said they were not as effective withouht and a mask.

Masks and visors dont stop the virus coming in. They help stop the virus going out.
Medical grade masks help stop it coning in too though.

BonsaiKitten · 23-10-2020 12:49pm

khalessi wrote: »

It would be a good idea but some article appeared in papers just before schools went back suggesting the children would drink the hand sanitiser, that it had alcohol in it, if they had their own supply, so not to send it in with children. I remember it being discussed on the tv. Created a minor kerfuffle

I think there was official (Departmental) guidance that students shouldn't bring in their own sanitiser, wasn't there? Perhaps that's why the Department didn't recommend it now and said schools can close instead.

It was a stupid piece of guidance imo. I can understand infants not bringing in their own but my class are well able to mind a bottle of hand sanitiser. Most do bring in individual bottles.

khalessi · 23-10-2020 12:54pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Masks and visors dont stop the virus coming in. They help stop the virus going out.
Medical grade masks help stop it coning in too though.

They dont stop it going out either. Masks originally became popular to protect the tissues of the eyes as that on area the common cold also a coronavirus, used as an access point to the body.

They should not be used without a mask.

JimmyVik · 23-10-2020 12:59pm

khalessi wrote: »

They dont stop it going out either. Masks originally became popular to protect the tissues of the eyes as that on area the common cold also a coronavirus, used as an access point to the body.

They should not be used without a mask.

Exactly. Visors not so good at stopping the virus coming out. Masks, though not great, are better than visors.

irishblessing · 23-10-2020 12:59pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I agree with blended learning.

What I don't agree with is people coming here claiming homeschooling 3 kids under 7 while one parent has to work from home and the other has to be out of the house working is something simple enough to manage.

You might have been lucky enough to have both of your jobs allow you work from home.

Many couples aren't.

I never said it worked for everybody. I have said it's an option and it worked for us as it does many others. There are other solutions needed because every family is different. It's not simple for any of us to manage. Unfortunately the alternative isn't a runner.

JimmyVik · 23-10-2020 1:03pm

irishblessing wrote: »

I never said it worked for everybody. I have said it's an option and it worked for us as it does many others. There are other solutions needed because every family is different. It's not simple for any of us to manage. Unfortunately the alternative isn't a runner.

If we continue as we are now, schools will be closed for long periods without a proper plan in place for remote learning.
I dont understand why so many people have a problem with preparing for remote learning, so it can work when in inevitably becomes necessary.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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