The "What is this Irish word/phrase in English" thread

sigmundv · 06-07-2013 1:20am

Dia daoibh. Is mise Sigmund agus is as na hOileáin Fharó (Na Scigirí i Sean-Ghaeilge) dom.

Gabh mo leithscéal, ach beidh mé ar aghaidh i mBéarla. (feel free to correct me, because this was cooked up based on a google translation and what I knew, e.g. that "ar aghaidh" is forward)

Two things.

1) I see that some people use the "reverse fada" and write e.g. "slàn", but Irish doesn't use this diacritic. However, the neighbour of Irish, Gàidhlig, uses it.

2) People usually write Gaeltacht, but I believe the regular spelling is Gaelteacht (because of the slender vowel in front of -lt- a slender vowel should follow it).

Any comments?

PS: I would have loved to be able to write something meaningul in Irish here, but my vocabulary is quite restricted at the moment, so the two lines at the start will have to do for now.

An Coilean · 07-07-2013 12:23am

sigmundv wrote: »

Dia daoibh. Is mise Sigmund agus is as na hOileáin Fharó (Na Scigirí i Sean-Ghaeilge) mé.

Gabh mo leithscéal, ach beidh mé ag dul ar aghaidh i mBéarla.

Hi sigmund, some corrections there, 'beidh mé ar aghaidh' would translate as something like 'I will ahead' the addition of 'ag dul' gives 'I will be going ahead'

Personally I would use something like 'Gabh mo leithscéal, ach beidh an cuid eile i mBéarla' - 'Pardon me' but the rest will be in English' That seems a somewhat more natural turn of phrase to me.

For no. 1, some people may have dificulty finding the correct fada on their computer and think 'close enough' but you are correct, Irish does not have a reverse fada.

On no 2, My grammer is not great, but I can't recall having seen that spelling of the word Gaeltacht.

Gumbi · 07-07-2013 2:35am

Gaeltacht is spelt correctly. Compound words ignore this rule (much like ospidéal, etc.). Gael + tacht roughly means area/place of Irish people.

An Coilean's correction is mostly fine, although cuid is feminine, so it should be renderd as "an chuid". I also prefer "as Béarla", i mBéarla is fine, too, though.

Samantha4 · 07-07-2013 6:59am

Gumbi wrote: »

Gaeltacht is spelt correctly. Compound words ignore this rule (much like ospidéal, etc.). Gael + tacht roughly means area/place of Irish people.

An Coilean's correction is mostly fine, although cuid is feminine, so it should be renderd as "an chuid". I also prefer "as Béarla", i mBéarla is fine, too, though.

I concur with Gumbi, Gaeltacht is the correct spelling (and Galltacht refers to the English speaking parts of Ireland). As is "an chuid" (after the article). Yeah, Gaidhlig uses the reverse 'síneadh fada', so if people are using that, well, they either want to live in Scotland or else they just need to take a closer look at their typing:) Beidh an aimsir bhreá chugainn inniu, bainigí go léir bús as an mbrothall

Samantha4 · 07-07-2013 7:03am

2) People usually write Gaeltacht, but I believe the regular spelling is Gaelteacht (because of the slender vowel in front of -lt- a slender vowel should follow it).

Any comments?

On the other hand..."Gaelteacht" is what they used at all the major battles such as the Battle of the Boyne when they saw any Irish heading their direction. Code for "Gael ag Teacht":)

MaryKirwan · 08-07-2013 2:59pm

How would you say "I haven't moved out yet" (from a house)?

Samantha4 · 08-07-2013 4:04pm

MaryKirwan wrote: »

How would you say "I haven't moved out yet" (from a house)?

Hi Mary, there are a few different ways of saying it, as always. The one that comes to mind 'ar an bpointe boise' is

'nílim tar éis aistriú go fóill' or else

'níor aistríos/níor aistrigh mé go fóill'.

Also: 'níl aistrithe agam go fóill'

It's better to use 'aistrithe' combined with the preposition 'ag', 'agam' in the type of example you have given rather than simply 'nílim aistrithe' which doesn't carry the meaning you are looking for. In the same way, you'd say 'tá ite agam' for I have eaten, rather than just use 'ite' independently.

Gumbi · 08-07-2013 4:15pm

In the right context, you can just use "níor bhogas fós/bhog mé fós" to keep it simple. The other suggestions are good too.

sigmundv · 22-07-2013 12:27am

My favourite Irish job title so far:

Stiúrthóir grianghrafadóireachta
(director of photography)

Got to love the word grianghrafadóireacht!

Micilin Muc · 23-07-2013 4:49pm

Samantha4 wrote: »

2) People usually write Gaeltacht, but I believe the regular spelling is Gaelteacht (because of the slender vowel in front of -lt- a slender vowel should follow it).

Any comments?

On the other hand..."Gaelteacht" is what they used at all the major battles such as the Battle of the Boyne when they saw any Irish heading their direction. Code for "Gael ag Teacht":)

We’re all lead to believe that the vowels are broken down into slender (e & i) and broad (a, o, & u). What they didn’t tell us is that ‘ae’ is also treated as broad. That’s why we have ‘Gaeltacht’, ‘aerfort’, ‘aeráid’

Gumbi · 23-07-2013 4:52pm

Micilin Muc wrote: »

We’re all lead to believe that the vowels are broken down into slender (e & i) and broad (a, o, & u). What they didn’t tell us is that ‘ae’ is also treated as broad. That’s why we have ‘Gaeltacht’, ‘aerfort’, ‘aeráid’

This is true! I knew I was forgetting something mentioning just the compound words' point.

sigmundv · 23-07-2013 5:11pm

Micilin Muc wrote: »

We’re all lead to believe that the vowels are broken down into slender (e & i) and broad (a, o, & u). What they didn’t tell us is that ‘ae’ is also treated as broad. That’s why we have ‘Gaeltacht’, ‘aerfort’, ‘aeráid’

Thank you very much for pointing this out! I see it in the Wikibook on Irish as well:

The golden rule for spelling in Irish, caol le caol agus leathan le leathan means slender with slender and broad with broad. The rule says that the vowels on either side of a consonant (or group of consonants) should agree; they should both be broad or both be slender. The rule is primarily used when you add an ending to a word (e.g., when conjugating a verb). To satisfy the rule you may need to add a vowel between the word and its ending. Note that there are a few common words (such as ansin and anseo) that do not satisfy this rule. However, the diphthong "ae" is considered broad, making words such as "Gaeltacht" and "aerfort" perfectly acceptable.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Irish/Spelling

Worztron · 13-03-2018 7:54pm

Hi. What does 'Cloch Le Carn' mean? I just saw a YT video clip about the program 'Cloch Le Carn - Martin McGuinness on RTE One'. It covers various people.

Worztron · 21-03-2018 10:39pm

Is 'Cloch Le Carn' even an Irish word?

Insect Overlord · 21-03-2018 11:10pm

Worztron wrote: »

Is 'Cloch Le Carn' even an Irish word?

It's a phrase rather than a word.

From http://www.iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4282688&tpl=archnewshome&force=1

'Cloch Le Carn’ series producer Kevin Cummins (Léargas) tells IFTN: “The title of this occasional series ‘Cloch le Carn’ could be literally interpreted as ‘adding a stone to the funeral mound’ but in reality the series is taking a constructive but not always uncritical look at public figures who've made a controversial contribution to Irish society in their lifetimes.

Worztron · 21-03-2018 11:23pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It's a phrase rather than a word.

From http://www.iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4282688&tpl=archnewshome&force=1

Cheers IO.

mr chips · 21-03-2018 11:27pm

Cloch is a stone, carn is a pile or heap of something. It's the origin of the word cairn in English - people refer to a stone cairn at the top of a hill to mark a spot, or similar. I've never heard the specific phrase "cloch le carn" myself, but I assume it's something along the lines of someone/something being akin to a key building block, part of a greater whole, one among many or similar.

Worztron · 28-04-2019 4:03pm

What does 'Rm Uile' [displays properly in attached image] mean in English? It's the CIT motto. Thanks.

Insect Overlord · 28-04-2019 4:38pm

According to their own websites, it means "Let us all achieve together".

Rechuchote · 28-04-2019 4:42pm

Worztron wrote: »

Is 'Cloch Le Carn' even an Irish word?

It's an Irish phrase, meaning "as a cairn is put together by many stones, so, if each of us adds a stone to a cairn, we will build it together". Or "many hands make light work", if you like.

Worztron · 28-04-2019 5:28pm

Thanks, Insect Overlord & Rechuchote.

Worztron · 24-12-2019 8:03pm

Is the Irish words for 'explore', 'read', & 'learn' on this page incorrect? http://www.corkcitylibraries.ie/en/

mr chips · 24-12-2019 11:11pm

Two of them have a fada too many - "Foghlaimígí" should be "Foghlaimigí", and "Fiosraígí" should be "Fiosraigí". "Léigí" is fine though.

Insect Overlord · 25-12-2019 2:16am

mr chips wrote: »

Two of them have a fada too many - "Foghlaimígí" should be "Foghlaimigí", and "Fiosraígí" should be "Fiosraigí". "Léigí" is fine though.

I would've said they were fine as they are. Both of those verbs are in the Dara Réimniú.

mr chips · 25-12-2019 9:47pm

Feck, you're right about that - my mistake!

Worztron · 01-01-2020 7:28pm

The Glenroe theme tune is called 'CuaichGhleann Ninn' [the proper text appears on the Wiki page - for some odd reason, Irish words still don't show properly in my posts] - what's the translation in English?

Little Cuckoo of Glen Nephin
Little Cuckoo of Glen Nefin
Other?

Thanks.

Insect Overlord · 01-01-2020 10:04pm

Worztron wrote: »

Little Cuckoo of Glen Nephin

That one, I reckon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephin

That said, "cuaichín" can be a term of endearment for a female singer with a sweet voice.

Worztron · 04-01-2020 8:51am

Hi. Is this [image attached] a correct way of saying Happy New Year? Thanks.

Esel · 04-01-2020 10:48pm

You could replace 'is' with 'agus'? (It would have the side-effect of centralising your image too.. )

Worztron · 20-03-2020 3:35pm

Hi guys. Would this be correct? -- School of the Holy Spirit = Scoil an Spioraid Naoimh

mr chips · 20-03-2020 9:42pm

I think so, yeah - AFAIK the word "Holy" is taken to be part of the noun in this case, rather than an adjective. Otherwise, generations of kids have been taught the wrong way to bless themselves in Irish!

Worztron · 22-03-2020 9:22am

mr chips wrote: »

I think so, yeah - AFAIK the word "Holy" is taken to be part of the noun in this case, rather than an adjective. Otherwise, generations of kids have been taught the wrong way to bless themselves in Irish!

Thanks, MC.

Worztron · 18-04-2020 10:23am

Hi guys.

What is 'Ní Bhuachalla' in English? I know 'Ó Buachalla' is Buckley. Is 'Ní Bhuachalla' another version of Buckley?

Thanks.

Insect Overlord · 18-04-2020 10:45am

Worztron wrote: »

Hi guys.

What is 'Ní Bhuachalla' in English? I know 'Ó Buachalla' is Buckley. Is 'Ní Bhuachalla' another version of Buckley?

Thanks.

"Ní" replaces "Ó" when the surname belongs to a woman/girl, so you were right - it still means Buckley.

The same thing happens with "Mac" surnames, which change to "Nic" for female names.

Worztron · 18-04-2020 12:52pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

"Ní" replaces "Ó" when the surname belongs to a woman/girl, so you were right - it still means Buckley.

The same thing happens with "Mac" surnames, which change to "Nic" for female names.

I didn't know that. Cheers, IO.

Worztron · 18-04-2020 1:49pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

"Ní" replaces "Ó" when the surname belongs to a woman/girl, so you were right - it still means Buckley.

The same thing happens with "Mac" surnames, which change to "Nic" for female names.

So a woman with the surname Adams would be 'Nic Ádhaimh' instead of 'Mac Ádhaimh'?

Worztron · 20-04-2020 9:01am

Well, Insect Overlord?

Insect Overlord · 20-04-2020 9:57am

Worztron wrote: »

Well, Insect Overlord?

That is correct.

mr chips · 20-04-2020 11:47am

Just to add a clarification to that - if a girl is born into e.g. the Mac Coinnigh family, her surname will be Nic Coinnigh. However if she marries into the Mac Coinnigh family, her married surname will become Mhic Coinnigh. In other words, "Nic" indicates "daughter of" while "Mhic" indicates "wife of".

Same thing happens with Ní / Uí.

Worztron · 20-04-2020 3:17pm

mr chips wrote: »

Just to add a clarification to that - if a girl is born into e.g. the Mac Coinnigh family, her surname will be Nic Coinnigh. However if she marries into the Mac Coinnigh family, her married surname will become Mhic Coinnigh. In other words, "Nic" indicates "daughter of" while "Mhic" indicates "wife of".

Same thing happens with Ní / Uí.

Hi MC.

So would I be correct what I've compiled here?

Boland - Ní Bheoláin, Ó Beolláin, Ó Breólláin ('Ní' replaces 'Ó' when surname belongs to female.) If a girl is born into the family, her surname will be Ó Bheoláin. However if she marries into family, her married surname will become Uí Bheoláin. In other words, 'Ní' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Uí' indicates 'wife of'.

Adams - Mac Ádhaimh ('Mac' changes to 'Nic' for females.) If a girl is born into Mac Ádhaimh family, her surname will be Nic Ádhaimh. However if she marries into Mac Ádhaimh family, her married surname will become Mhic Ádhaimh. In other words, 'Nic' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Mhic' indicates 'wife of'.

Worztron · 20-04-2020 3:42pm

Is Mac Coinnigh the Irish for both MacKenzie & MacKinney? Or more names?

Insect Overlord · 20-04-2020 4:44pm

This website is good for surnames: https://www.sloinne.ie/surname/ga/mac-coinnigh/

Some more info here: https://www.libraryireland.com/names/macc/mac-coinnigh.php

Esel · 20-04-2020 10:28pm

Worztron wrote: »

Hi MC.

So would I be correct what I've compiled here?

Boland - Ní Bheoláin, Ó Beolláin, Ó Breólláin ('Ní' replaces 'Ó' when surname belongs to female.) If a girl is born into the family, her surname will be Ó Bheoláin. However if she marries into family, her married surname will become Uí Bheoláin. In other words, 'Ní' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Uí' indicates 'wife of'.

Adams - Mac Ádhaimh ('Mac' changes to 'Nic' for females.) If a girl is born into Mac Ádhaimh family, her surname will be Nic Ádhaimh. However if she marries into Mac Ádhaimh family, her married surname will become Mhic Ádhaimh. In other words, 'Nic' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Mhic' indicates 'wife of'.

Would it be more correct to use Bean Uí Bheoláin for the wife's name?

Insect Overlord · 20-04-2020 11:00pm

Esel wrote: »

Would it be more correct to use Bean Uí Bheoláin for the wife's name?

Some people prefer that. Some choose not to use it. I think Mother Foclóir even debated it in one of their podcasts, and recognised it's an interesting facet of feminist linguistic theory and Irish tradition.

mr chips · 21-04-2020 12:22am

Worztron wrote: »

Hi MC.

So would I be correct what I've compiled here?

Boland - Ní Bheoláin, Ó Beolláin, Ó Breólláin ('Ní' replaces 'Ó' when surname belongs to female.) If a girl is born into the family, her surname will be Ó Bheoláin. However if she marries into family, her married surname will become Uí Bheoláin. In other words, 'Ní' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Uí' indicates 'wife of'.

Adams - Mac Ádhaimh ('Mac' changes to 'Nic' for females.) If a girl is born into Mac Ádhaimh family, her surname will be Nic Ádhaimh. However if she marries into Mac Ádhaimh family, her married surname will become Mhic Ádhaimh. In other words, 'Nic' indicates 'daughter of' while 'Mhic' indicates 'wife of'.

The first part of your response above should read - "If a girl is born into the family, her surname will be Ní Bheoláin."

I'm a bit surprised that Ó Breolláin is given as a source for Boland - thought it would have been anglicised as Brolin. Anyone?

Mac Coinnigh is the surname of people I know whose anglicised name is Kinney, although McKinney is certainly derived from it as well.

Esel · 21-04-2020 4:13am

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Some people prefer that. Some choose not to use it. I think Mother Foclóir even debated it in one of their podcasts, and recognised it's an interesting facet of feminist linguistic theory and Irish tradition.

I think today it would be seen as very patriarchal, like Mrs. John Boylan in English.

Is/was there a 'social standing' distinction between Ó and Mac, Ó meaning 'grandson of' and therefore having a better lineage?

Worztron · 23-04-2020 10:03am

Insect Overlord wrote: »

This website is good for surnames: https://www.sloinne.ie/surname/ga/mac-coinnigh/

Some more info here: https://www.libraryireland.com/names/macc/mac-coinnigh.php

Cheers, IO. sloinne.ie even breaks down by married/unmarried names for females. Nice.

Worztron · 23-04-2020 10:04am

Esel wrote: »

Would it be more correct to use Bean Uí Bheoláin for the wife's name?

https://www.sloinne.ie/surname/ga/o-beollain-2/

dubhthach · 26-04-2020 11:44am

Esel wrote: »

I think today it would be seen as very patriarchal, like Mrs. John Boylan in English.

Is/was there a 'social standing' distinction between Ó and Mac, Ó meaning 'grandson of' and therefore having a better lineage?

With regard to surname formation there was no 'social standing' difference between which form was adopted in earliest surnames in 11th-12th century Ireland.

For example Mac Carthaigh was just as high a social standing as Ó Briain.

Carthach's son was known as Muireadhach mac Carthaigh (meaning "Muireadhach, son of Carthach"). Such ephemeral patronymics were common at the time. However, when Muireadhach died in 1092 his sons Tadhg and Cormac adopted Mac Carthaigh as an actual surname. Following the treaty of Glanmire in 1118, dividing the kingdom of Munster into Desmond and Thomond, this Tadhg became the first king of Desmond, comprising parts of the modern counties of Cork and Kerry.

Of course junior branches of families which had fallen out of the Derbfhine would often produce 'cadet surnames'. So for example:

Mac Maghnusa (McManus) from Maghnus Ua Conchobhair (d. 1181), his descendants remained as Ua Conchobair (O'Connor) until the early 14th century by which time they were had fallen out of the derbfine.

In which case they adapted 'Clann Maghnusa' (children of Maghnus) to produce their surname.

Of course before surnames there were generally 'dynastical' type names that were often formed around 'Uí' or using specific formulae

eg.
Moccu x (oldest -- 'tribe of x')
Dál X
Síl X
Slíocht x
Clann x (Children of x)

Slíocht was still used for new branches of surnames in 16th century, so for example 'Sliocht Airt Uí Néill' which was also a lordship around Omagh.

mr chips · 26-04-2020 1:03pm

That word sliocht is connected with a phrase used by well-wishers for newly-weds - Sliocht sleachta ar shliocht bhur sleachta. Closest literal translation I can come up with is "May your descendants' descendants have grandchildren" - it's a more elegantly (and enthusiastically!) expressed version of "may this union be fruitful" in English.

Random connection alert! That phrase made me think of the word "sleacht", which can be found in a few placenames - Slaughtneil being one such in Co. Derry which would be well-known in GAA circles. It's also be the basis for the modern iteration of another placename not far from there, Slaghtaverty or "Sleacht Ábhartaigh" - Ábhartach's burial stone/tomb. Ábhartach was a bad b@stard reputed to have drunk the blood of his victims, who may or may not have been Bram Stoker's inspiration for Dracula. Whether he was or not, that stone does exist and is still in place, on the farm where my other half's mother was born and bred. About 30 years ago, a nephew of hers (my wife's cousin) tried to move it several times, only the digger broke down. So he repaired it, then it broke down again. So he hired in another digger, and it broke down too. So he got in another(!) digger and a guy to do the job for him, and the fella slipped from the digger and broke his leg. So then he left it alone. :pac::pac::pac:

The "What is this Irish word/phrase in English" thread

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