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How will schools be able to go back in September?
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Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »I'd imagine it's going to get a lot worse if they don't manage to get things ready so schools can open in September.
I agree. But it would be much more likely to happen if everyone claiming to be so concerned about the schools opening (I mean the "jounalists" spreading venom and nonsense) concentrated their efforts on getting the Department to finance the things that will allow this to happen instead of attacking teachers. The Dept will cave fairly easily under public pressure, look at the LC fiasco (again broadly led by the media).0 -
BonsaiKitten wrote: »And wouldn't it be great if those people complaining about teachers (off for 6 months, put them on the Covid, yadda yadda) used the time to instead put pressure on the Govt to fund schools properly? If they want schools back then that's a far better way to go about it.
Do they not already do enough through taxation, financial contributions and supporting what seems like weekly fundraising and sponsorship?
I think if anything is to change then its the illusion that children in this country get free education.
I'd be more than happy to pay if I thought it benefitted the children and stopped teachers having to put their hand in their own pockets (I completely disagree with this and it should never happen).
The problem is there would be uproar if parents were asked to pay more. Some of them just don't value education because its a given, it's taken for granted.
The way education is viewed by some people is wrong and as a result they would not justify paying for it.
The money has to come from somewhere.0 -
Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »Do they not already do enough through taxation, financial contributions and supporting what seems like weekly fundraising and sponsorship?
I think if anything is to change then its the illusion that children in this country get free education.
I'd be more than happy to pay if I thought it benefitted the children and stopped teachers having to put their hand in their own pockets (I completely disagree with this and it should never happen).
The problem is there would be uproar if parents were asked to pay more. Some of them just don't value education because its a given, it's taken for granted.
The way education is viewed by some people is wrong and as a result they would not justify paying for it.
The money has to come from somewhere.
I'm not talking about raising voluntary contributions or anything of the sort.
The Govt won't listen to teachers individually. If anything is going to change then parents need to get involved and also apply pressure. That doesn't need to cost money.
You might say that parents are doing enough and I appreciate that parents are busy. Teachers are busy too. But do you not want your kid in a properly resourced school? Adequate support teachers for kids with special needs, proper funding for materials, more hours for cleaners (and of course the caretakers from earlier in the thread), enough money for heat and light... Everyone wants to ape the famous Finnish system but it costs money which the Govt just don't want to give.0 -
Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »Do they not already do enough through taxation, financial contributions and supporting what seems like weekly fundraising and sponsorship?
I think if anything is to change then its the illusion that children in this country get free education.
I'd be more than happy to pay if I thought it benefitted the children and stopped teachers having to put their hand in their own pockets (I completely disagree with this and it should never happen).
The problem is there would be uproar if parents were asked to pay more. Some of them just don't value education because its a given, it's taken for granted.
The way education is viewed by some people is wrong and as a result they would not justify paying for it.
The money has to come from somewhere.
How are you getting that more money from parents is what we are looking for from that post? PRESSURE on the Government to provide funding is what we want. Funding to keep your children safe, the school staff safe.
Everyone says that children don't get sick from Covid, let's take that as gospel. The staff in a school can still get sick. Now imagine that your child's school has to close due to an outbreak amongst the staff due to the fact that the department didn't provide the required funding for stuff? Back to remote teaching then all due to a relatively small amount of funding.0 -
BonsaiKitten wrote: »And wouldn't it be great if those people complaining about teachers (off for 6 months, put them on the Covid, yadda yadda) used the time to instead put pressure on the Govt to fund schools properly? If they want schools back then that's a far better way to go about it.
Im sure if parents knew the full extent many would be happy to. But if teachers continue to bridge the gap and the schools dont communicate to their parents how are parents to know or help.0 -
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Im sure if parents knew the full extent many would be happy to. But if teachers continue to bridge the gap and the schools dont communicate to their parents how are parents to know or help.
We fundraise several times a year in our school and usually get lots of complaints about constantly having the hand out. When we say what it is for the grumbling (at us) doesn't stop. But I do agree with you schools should probably be more explicit about what exactly the funding is for so parents can see just how bad the situation is.
Edit: just to say I don't blame parents for complaining. They shouldn't have to fund the school like this, the Dept should. The teachers contribute to the fundraisers every year too, we jokingly call it our "termly tax for being employed in xxx school "0 -
Taken from a post that has gone viral on Facebook.
A long read, but worthwhile if you are looking for facts on teachers and schools, opposed to the media spin that is currently circulating.
Teachers will return to schools in September!
(A piece that is based on facts not opinion.)
It didn’t take long before certain journalists and media personalities decided to write ill-informed and poorly researched articles on the Covid-19 culprits who are of course the teachers of Ireland. I’m sure the quality of their journalism will eventually conclude that a teacher ate a bat and is to blame for the pandemic that has impacted upon and disrupted all of our lives!! As a teacher, I am tired of the media spin and ill-informed articles that have been written by Jennifer O’ Connell of the Irish Times, Katherine Donnelly of the Irish Independent and of course our latest expert on education, Dr Ciara Kelly who is using her platform to slate us at every opportunity. I wouldn’t have a problem if they had bothered to do their homework and were presenting actual facts rather than click bait headlines and populist opinion pieces. As a teacher, I certainly wouldn’t be giving them high marks on their assignments and would be asking them to cite their sources!
The schools had barely closed their doors when Ciara Kelly decided to tweet that many teachers were out celebrating when the schools closed. Apparently, she had it on good authority. Did you Ciara? Because the mood in my own school was far from celebratory. In fact, it was quite eery and sobering. My 6th class were 11 days away from making their Confirmation and were crestfallen that it was more than likely going to be postponed. At that point we thought we would be back after the Easter holidays.
I went home that evening and researched different educational platforms, as did my esteemed colleagues. According to Jennifer O’Connell, we only e-mailed home the homework once a week, and just about glanced at it. Well Jennifer, I can assure you that in my school and many others, this was most certainly not the case. I wonder are the three personalities I have mentioned above familiar with the different educational platforms that extend far beyond e-mail. Microsoft Teams, Google Classroom, Seesaw, Edmodo and Class Dojo to name but a few. Our own school quickly decided that we would all use the same platform and ensured Microsoft Teams was fully set up for the pupils to access. This allowed us to create different sections, upload videos, distribute assignments and engage with the pupils and parents directly and effectively. Blended learning is far from ideal, but we did the best we could whilst also taking into account the different home situations pupils found themselves in.
I wonder if Ciara or Jennifer have for a second considered that some pupils may not have access to Wi-Fi or that there may be only one device between a couple of children at home making distance learning difficult. Factor that in with parents working at home who may also need access to the same device, and you realise some families are in impossible situations.
However as difficult as the situations were, the parents in our school were incredible. Thankfully, there is a culture where we work together and strive to do the best for our students. Unfortunately, certain personalities are using their platforms to create a wedge between parents and teachers. I wouldn’t have a problem if they had fact-based evidence, but they don’t even seem to realise there is more than one teacher’s union. The TUI are the only union that have threatened strike action and they are a post-primary union as are the ASTI. Post-Primary schools were also presented with a very difficult task in giving pupils their Leaving Certificate grades. At no point did I hear of refusal from teachers to engage with this process as challenging as this was. The primary school teacher’s union is the INTO and at no point have we threatened strike over going back to school. In fact, there is very little consultation between unions and teachers, and during the pandemic, we heard everything through the media first.
Teachers want to go back. Teachers have been working throughout this process and have not been using it as a holiday. Teachers did not close the schools and did not cause this pandemic!! I am so disheartened that we as a group are constantly made scapegoats, and I find some of the recent journalism in the Independent and the Irish Times cheap, lazy, and disrespectful. In fact, if some of those ‘journalists’ were my pupils I’d be giving them feedback to get their facts correct, and I would be telling Jennifer O’ Connell that comparing hair salons to classrooms is like comparing apples and oranges. It is very unfair to bring a totally different profession into this; a profession that are operating differently to how they did pre-Covid and would never have two customers sitting side by side as our pupils would be in the classroom. I would never write about a profession I have no experience in, and it would be easy for me to take a cheap shot back and say it must be easy for journalists to write about us. However, I don’t know enough about journalism or indeed any profession outside of education, so I’ll stick to what I do know. I suggest Ciara Kelly and Jennifer O’Connell do the same, or at least give their comments some credibility.
At the heart of all of this are our children and their safety. Many parents have genuine fears and anxieties about their children returning to school. Some children themselves are terrified. Many teachers are also parents who have been teaching online as well as home-schooling. All we are asking for is clear guidelines so we can give absolute reassurance to parents and children that their safety is paramount, because when all is said and done, it is the well-being and safety of the children we have a duty of care to, that must be prioritised.
As teachers we work extremely hard, and we are not looking for any credit, but we are also no longer going to stand for teacher bashing, especially when journalists can’t even check their facts. ‘Teacher’s dash hopes of school return,’ was another clickbait headline used by Katherine Donnelly of the Independent newspaper. It’s actually laughable that these pieces aren’t scrutinised before they go to print. Any teacher I know just wants to get back. Every teacher in Ireland will be in their classroom when September returns. We just need clear guidance on how to cater for our pupils.
Recently my class won an award for their Junior Entrepreneur Project which quite fittingly was called ‘Let’s Talk About It.’ They won the ‘Change Agents’ award, and I know the book will help a lot of people. They were courageous enough to share their stories. As a teacher I am always telling them to stand up for themselves in a healthy way, and their bravery has inspired me to do the same for our profession. Let’s talk about it! Let’s get our facts right. Let’s stop the blame game and let’s work together to get our children back to a safe school environment.
I have tweeted a reply to Dr Ciara Kelly offering to go on Newstalk and present the facts to her, but she has not responded, and is clearly just interested in creating her own spin. As a qualified doctor, I find it appalling that her populist opinion is more important than medical advice and guidance from our experts.
Teachers will be in their classrooms come the end of August. Please give us clear guidelines to cater for the pupils who are at the heart of this situation.
Kate O’ Callaghan
Clogheen KerryPike National School
Cork0 -
I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.
Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.0 -
I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.
Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.
There is being vocal(like I am) but being spiteful on a national/public platform writing and saying utter garbage needs to be called out. Like the lady who wrote that post I too have replied to tweets from Ciara Kelly's show saying I would be more than happy to go on the air but no reply. Her producers seem to carefully select people to go on the air that either agree with her or that she can easily manipulate alongside the regular contributors who I suspect could be/are friends/family of newstalk staff.0 -
I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.
Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.
Yes people had different experiences, myself included, I was working daily puuting in very long hours while my kids teacher sent the weekly email and put up exercises on seesaw but never once linked to a video or put up an explanation to explain any of the maths, luckily I could deal with that because of my profession and pointed that out when BOM sent a survey.
It is time to put that aside, the schools are now on holiday and the Department has still to issue guidelines and have only so far offered to buy santizer which the schools will have to buy initially themselves and get reimbursed at a later date.
As parents we are all experiencing this and seeing the Department say there are no funds for moving forward. The unions are being blamed bbut yet they put in suggestions for reopening- ignored. The teachers blamed but the principals sent in a document of suggestions on reopeinging -ignored.
Maybe together they cant ignore us to get our schools reopened safely0 -
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I suppose when people have negative experiences they are far more likely to be vocal about it than those with positive.
Parents had varying levels of interaction from their teachers and schools. Some were great, some were not.
The difference being that if I have a negative experience with my dr / dentist local shop etc I don’t extrapolate that every dr / dentist retail assistant is over paid / lazy / refusing to work/ looking to go on strike / has too many holidays/ is trying to hold the country to ransom etc.
There is a huge negativity in relation to teachers in this country. A negativity exacerbated by the clickbait media. There are periodic teacher bashing threads on boards. There is no acknowledgement of the professionalism and hard work of teachers in a very underfunded system. Teachers are being held responsible for lack of guidance and funding by the dep. Yet most surprising of all is that those who bash teacher's the loudest - including on this thread and across boards never seem to want to do the job themselves. I’ve no idea why not - after all its such a cushy number ðŸ˜0 -
Yes people had different experiences, myself included, I was working daily puuting in very long hours while my kids teacher sent the weekly email and put up exercises on seesaw but never once linked to a video or put up an explanation to explain any of the maths, luckily I could deal with that because of my profession and pointed that out when BOM sent a survey.
It is time to put that aside, the schools are now on holiday and the Department has still to issue guidelines and have only so far offered to buy santizer which the schools will have to buy initially themselves and get reimbursed at a later date.
As parents we are all experiencing this and seeing the Department say there are no funds for moving forward. The unions are being blamed bbut yet they put in suggestions for reopening- ignored. The teachers blamed but the principals sent in a document of suggestions on reopeinging -ignored.
Maybe together they cant ignore us to get our schools reopened safely
A tsunami of parents and grandparents going ape over their precious little ones would quickly concentrate political minds. Teachers asking for stuff won't and never will have the same impact. As can be seen on here some just think we are trying to line our own pockets or going on strike.0 -
History Queen wrote: »We fundraise several times a year in our school and usually get lots of complaints about constantly having the hand out. When we say what it is for the grumbling (at us) doesn't stop. But I do agree with you schools should probably be more explicit about what exactly the funding is for so parents can see just how bad the situation is.
Edit: just to say I don't blame parents for complaining. They shouldn't have to fund the school like this, the Dept should. The teachers contribute to the fundraisers every year too, we jokingly call it our "termly tax for being employed in xxx school "
I think those parents that know the money actually goes on keeping the lights on literally will be happy to stump up more and help out even if that includes putting pressure on the government.
Others who just see another begging letter coming home in the school bag, how do you reach them and inform them?
We know it's always the same faces on the PTA, on the swimming bus, chaperoning the school tour, making tea at parents evenings, doing library trips with the small one and reading groups in the school.
It's the same too for sports clubs, community groups etc always the same people involved.
It needs a joined up campaign and covid aside, it's long overdue.
We need to stop taking education for granted. I just don't see an easy solution to decades of underfunding.0 -
How are schools who have reopened all over the world doing?0
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Jinglejangle69 wrote: »How are schools who have reopened all over the world doing?
The ones that are doing well were adequately resourced and funded to follow public health advice. The ones that were not (Isreal) are not doing well.0 -
Secondary capitation for those who are interested
https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Archived-Circulars/cl0029_2016.pdf
and a more up to date one for primary than the one I posted earlier
https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0038_2020.pdf0 -
Jinglejangle69 wrote: »How are schools who have reopened all over the world doing?
Schools in China, France, South Africa, Japan, Israel and South Korea have all had to close again in one way or another after reopening.
I am a teacher and I am desperate to go back to work in September but I think opening schools isn’t going to go well at all. I fearful of the lacklustre dept guidance and the absence of a real strategy when schools are forced to close again.0 -
Probably just delighted the kids are out of the house.wirelessdude01 wrote: »Actually yes they are. Are yours?
I was pretty happy to see Jennifer O'Connell had to leave twitter because she doxxed a teacher who confronted her, including contacting the school they worked for and slandering them. Sinister, troubled woman.
https://twitter.com/daithibhard/status/1278994462501371904?s=19
No fear though because ciara Kelly has taken up the mantle. There really is a "type".0 -
wirelessdude01 wrote: »There is being vocal(like I am) but being spiteful on a national/public platform writing and saying utter garbage needs to be called out. Like the lady who wrote that post I too have replied to tweets from Ciara Kelly's show saying I would be more than happy to go on the air but no reply. Her producers seem to carefully select people to go on the air that either agree with her or that she can easily manipulate alongside the regular contributors who I suspect could be/are friends/family of newstalk staff.
Well it would help if unions actually for acted constructively and not straight away releasing media statements how they are not coming back unless they are guaranteed complete safety (who can give that guarantee). I'm well aware many teachers want to go back but they are represented by unions who are trying really hard to be obstructive. Maybe wrong impression is created because teachers have wrong spokespeople. It's not the public's fault if they are reacting to lack of enthusiasm from the unions.0 -
Media are reporting what they want. At the moment, they have a clear agenda to make it look like teachers are blocking schools from reopening so they will take one segment of a quote out of context and try to make a story out of it.0
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Newstalk at it again this morning with a one sided Brenda Power discussion. How are the media allowed do this?0
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The stark reality is that if we are to follow the present Department guidelines then second level schools will not re open fully. We all know the great need to re open and that teachers want to return in September but let's wait and see what develops over the next four weeks.0
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I just dropped a child off to a summer camp . Kids in pods of 8-10 .Two carers with no masks, temps taken on arrival and hands sanitized . The carers are not distancing and kids mixing with each other but not with the other pods . All the kids seemed to be under 8 or 9 . They are going by the book and by recommendation and parents signed a waiver regarding Covid
Th e kids all were excited and happy to be among peers .0 -
Well it would help if unions actually for acted constructively and not straight away releasing media statements how they are not coming back unless they are guaranteed complete safety (who can give that guarantee). I'm well aware many teachers want to go back but they are represented by unions who are trying really hard to be obstructive. Maybe wrong impression is created because teachers have wrong spokespeople. It's not the public's fault if they are reacting to lack of enthusiasm from the unions.
You really don't know how things work.
If Unions agreed to whatever the government proposed, do you think the funds would flow?
Here's a basic, hot water to wash your hands.
Any mention of providing this?
Soap?
Hand sanitizer? Any announcement.
I'm delighted the unions are making demands for safety.
Do TDs in the Dail have to raise extra funds by hosting raffles and table quizzes to pay for toilet paper?
What funds exactly are the government providing?0 -
Well it would help if unions actually for acted constructively and not straight away releasing media statements how they are not coming back unless they are guaranteed complete safety (who can give that guarantee). I'm well aware many teachers want to go back but they are represented by unions who are trying really hard to be obstructive. Maybe wrong impression is created because teachers have wrong spokespeople. It's not the public's fault if they are reacting to lack of enthusiasm from the unions.
Obstructive? Realistic more like.
I agree though that the three teacher unions are really bad at getting their/our message out there in a coherent and clear manner. This is something I've raised previously at our meetings but while acknowledging it hasn't changed.0 -
You really don't know how things work.
If Unions agreed to whatever the government proposed, do you think the funds would flow?
Here's a basic, hot water to wash your hands.
Any mention of providing this?
Soap?
Hand sanitizer? Any announcement.
I'm delighted the unions are making demands for safety.
Do TDs in the Dail have to raise extra funds by hosting raffles and table quizzes to pay for toilet paper?
What funds exactly are the government providing?
No offence but i hope every school has hot water and soap to wash kids hands before covid-19. if no hot water they should have santizier then.
Was camping at the weekend, kids had a great time with other kids. No social distancing as they got to play.
There should be no social distancing in schools either.
Kids back in all sports this week, life moves on.0 -
wirelessdude01 wrote: »Obstructive? Realistic more like.
I agree though that the three teacher unions are really bad at getting their/our message out there in a coherent and clear manner. This is something I've raised previously at our meetings but while acknowledged it hasn't changed.
I don't think any other sector put out so many preconditions before talks on implementation even started. Department for education is poor but no other sector union or organisation approached things less constructively. Everyone else seems to be able suggest how things can be done, teachers unions come out first with what can't be done. I'm sorry but instead of criticizing media reaction you might look at unions. Being realistic only works when you are also constructive. Just being realistic and whinge doesn't resolve anything.0 -
The principals should be forecasting their costs for enhanced cleaning, supplies etc to adhere to the guidelines and then presenting them to the DoE now, if they haven't already done so. Pods sounds like the best option, imo (and it's my opinion) social distancing isn't possible or even necessary for the primary schools. The secondary school children are old enough to comply with rules.0
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I just dropped a child off to a summer camp . Kids in pods of 8-10 .Two carers with no masks, temps taken on arrival and hands sanitized . The carers are not distancing and kids mixing with each other but not with the other pods . All the kids seemed to be under 8 or 9 . They are going by the book and by recommendation and parents signed a waiver regarding Covid
Th e kids all were excited and happy to be among peers .
How many kids in total to 2 carers?0 -
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The principals should be forecasting their costs for enhanced cleaning, supplies etc to adhere to the guidelines and then presenting them to the DoE now, if they haven't already done so. Pods sounds like the best option, imo (and it's my opinion) social distancing isn't possible or even necessary for the primary schools. The secondary school children are old enough to comply with rules.
While secondary school children are old enough to comply with rules they often don't do so. Part of being a teenager and growing up is testing rules and limits. Just means we as individual schools will need to adjust our codes of behaviour to accomodate strict sanctions for breaking of Covid rules. Hopefully parents will support this.0
This discussion has been closed.
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